409 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

Alardonin, on Jul 20 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

sorry about that fyxe i will be more carefull from now on,i myself wouldnt like to read a text wich i could not comprehend at all,it makes the life more easy for the reader and makes the point more clearer made from the writer.

Well, cheers. As long as you're tryin' then it's all good.

Doopliss, on Jul 21 2006, 04:46 AM, said:

Maybe we should leave this as unexplainable, such as how the Zoras got the Master Sword?

I think a whole shedload of stuff is unexplained in the Zelda series. Just because we're given a series of games doesn't mean stuff doesn't happen inbetween games. What happens, we don't know, but there's no point wondering about it because anything could happen.

Arturo, on Jul 21 2006, 12:43 PM, said:

Why don't we go back to the topic and discuss about the placement of the Four Swords Series???

Uh, that's exactly what we're doing, dingleberry.

[Arturo]

Fyxe, on Jul 21 2006, 02:05 PM, said:

Well, cheers. As long as you're tryin' then it's all good.
I think a whole shedload of stuff is unexplained in the Zelda series. Just because we're given a series of games doesn't mean stuff doesn't happen inbetween games. What happens, we don't know, but there's no point wondering about it because anything could happen.
Uh, that's exactly what we're doing, dingleberry.

Thanks for expanding my vocabulary. I generally am really calmed. But unless you stop insulting other people I will have to report you. Maybe is exactly what we are doing, but in your post you didn't say anything that really had to do with the topic.

Now, on topic:

I think the best way to relate the Four Swords games with the others is to trace a continuity of both the Four Sword and the Triforce:

Miy continuity is:

Four Sword:

The Hero of Men receives the Picori Sword from the Minish
In TMC, the Four Sword is created by enfusing the magic of the ellements on the White Sword
Somehow it's divided in four and put in the Santuary of the Four Sword, in the Pyramid of power.
It returns to the Light World to its pedestal.
FS and FSA. Ganon is impriosned in the Four Sword
Ganon breaks the Seal of the Four Sword and it returns to its white sword state.


Triforce:

The Picori bring the Triforce from the Sacred Realm to humans. They call it light force.
The knowledge on the Triforce increases, and it causes so many problems that the ancient Sages decide to return it to its initial resting place, the Sacred Realm.
Ganondorf gets the Triforce in OoT
The Triforce is united after ALttP
Sleeping Zelda, the ToC is hidden
(Speculation: the other two parts are hidden as well)
FS and FSA: the Triforce is hardly known (presumably hidden in Hyrule Castle)
LoZ
AoL

[Fyxe]

You're going to report me for calling you a 'dingleberry' because you were making an irrelevant post complaining that we weren't doing exactly what we *were* doing?

...That... Makes sense?

...'Dingleberry'. I mean, seriously. What's with everyone taking offense at the most stupid 'insults' that aren't even insults? It's just like me saying 'you're being silly'. My god. Lighten the bloody hell up.

And, yes, I made a post that was responding to someone else's post and I didn't happen to mention the Four Sword games. I made this post AFTER you complained for no reason. Don't blame me.

[Hero of Slime]

Arturo said

Somehow it's divided in four and put in the Santuary of the Four Sword, in the Pyramid of power.
It returns to the Light World to its pedestal.
FS and FSA. Ganon is impriosned in the Four Sword

Did you just forget to include FS's Backstory or do you think that it is TMC? If you think that FS's backstory is TMC then I don't see how ALttP could work between it and FS.

Edited by The Zol, 21 July 2006 - 02:54 PM.

[SOAP]

I don't see how ALttP can fit between TMC and the FS games at all.

Assuming TMC either leads into are is FS's backstory, Vaati is sealed in the Four Sword which which is enshrined in the FS Shrine but winds up in Ganon's possesion somehow in the Palace of power, is seperated into four swords while Vaati supposed to be still imprisoned inside with Four seperate Shadow Links guarding them. Then it has to be put bacxk in the Four Swords shrine to line up with FS's begining all the while Vaati makes no escape. Um, this makes too much assumption. Even if you assume the FS backstory doesn't involve TMC and takes place after ALttP, I think it makes more sense to put ALttP after FSA. It'd explain the existence of dark world in FSA, which wouldn't exist after ALttP, and why Ganon has the FS in the PoTFS.

[Jumbie]

Arturo, on Jul 21 2006, 07:04 PM, said:

But unless you stop insulting other people I will have to report you.

Bad day, Arturo? You shouldn't have taken this the wrong way. Fyxe isn't causing language problems; that expression actually made me smile

Quote

The Picori bring the Triforce from the Sacred Realm to humans. They call it light force.

See people, Arturo also believes that the Light Force is the Triforce. While you successfully showed me that it might as well be a different thing, no one's trying to teach him too...

Fyxe, on Jul 21 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

What's with everyone taking offense at the most stupid 'insults' that aren't even insults? It's just like me saying 'you're being silly'.

True, we still need to be able to say someone is silly. That's just... an important means to emphasize one's point; not really an insult. Offensive language mostly involves an F-word or A-word.

Doopliss, on Jul 21 2006, 05:46 AM, said:

We know that TMC is placed before ALttP. But is also probable that the FS games take place after ALttP because the Dark World appears in them.

I totally agree.

SOAP, on Jul 21 2006, 10:19 PM, said:

I don't see how ALttP can fit between TMC and the FS games at all.

Neither do I really, but ALttP should be put in between them nonetheless. I think this part of the timeline just doesn't perfectly retain the purity between the legends of the main series and the ones of the FS series...

Edited by Jumbie, 21 July 2006 - 09:07 PM.

[Doopliss]

Arturo, on Jul 21 2006, 12:04 PM, said:

Triforce:

The Picori bring the Triforce from the Sacred Realm to humans. They call it light force.
The knowledge on the Triforce increases, and it causes so many problems that the ancient Sages decide to return it to its initial resting place, the Sacred Realm.
Ganondorf gets the Triforce in OoT
The Triforce is united after ALttP
Sleeping Zelda, the ToC is hidden
(Speculation: the other two parts are hidden as well)
FS and FSA: the Triforce is hardly known (presumably hidden in Hyrule Castle)
LoZ
AoL

LoZ's backastory states that Ganon has stolen the Triforce of Power a long time ago. The Triforce was complete in ALttP, but probably after that the king hid the Triforce of Courage and Ganon stole the Triforce of Power. Did this happen before or after the FS games? I think that the split took place before the FS games because that would explain why the Dark World isn't the Golden Land though Essence of the Triforce told Link in ALttP's ending that the Dark World would surely be destroyed. Interesting, indeed! Finally something new to me.

SOAP, on Jul 21 2006, 03:19 PM, said:

I don't see how ALttP can fit between TMC and the FS games at all.

Assuming TMC either leads into are is FS's backstory, Vaati is sealed in the Four Sword which which is enshrined in the FS Shrine but winds up in Ganon's possesion somehow in the Palace of power, is seperated into four swords while Vaati supposed to be still imprisoned inside with Four seperate Shadow Links guarding them. Then it has to be put bacxk in the Four Swords shrine to line up with FS's begining all the while Vaati makes no escape. Um, this makes too much assumption. Even if you assume the FS backstory doesn't involve TMC and takes place after ALttP, I think it makes more sense to put ALttP after FSA. It'd explain the existence of dark world in FSA, which wouldn't exist after ALttP, and why Ganon has the FS in the PoTFS.

The Dark World was created for the first time in OoT, so it's unprobable that the FS games take place before this game. If OoT is the IW, then Ganon can't appear between OoT and ALttP. So we are forced to place the FS games after AlttP.

Manifestation pacifique en raison du Pie Forum. Jour 18. L

Edited by Doopliss, 22 July 2006 - 12:57 AM.

[Hero of Slime]

Doopliss said

LoZ's backastory states that Ganon has stolen the Triforce of Power a long time ago.

I thought that the "A long time ago" was not about when Ganon stole the Triforce but about to when the whole story took place. "A long time ago" is a traditional opening line for a fairy tale and in that case it always is refering to the whole story and not just the next line.

[Arturo]

Fyxe, on Jul 21 2006, 07:12 PM, said:

You're going to report me for calling you a 'dingleberry' because you were making an irrelevant post complaining that we weren't doing exactly what we *were* doing?

...That... Makes sense?

...'Dingleberry'. I mean, seriously. What's with everyone taking offense at the most stupid 'insults' that aren't even insults? It's just like me saying 'you're being silly'. My god. Lighten the bloody hell up.

And, yes, I made a post that was responding to someone else's post and I didn't happen to mention the Four Sword games. I made this post AFTER you complained for no reason. Don't blame me.

I am sorry, I overreacted. I know it's no excuse, but I was having a bad week, and I also didn't like that I had the look for that word in FOUR WEB DICTIONARIES! because it wasn't in any. I am really sorry.

The Zol, on Jul 21 2006, 09:54 PM, said:

Did you just forget to include FS's Backstory or do you think that it is TMC? If you think that FS's backstory is TMC then I don't see how ALttP could work between it and FS.

Well, I must recognize that I forgot about it (bad week, anyone?). About the backstory, I am unsure. It can't be the events from TMC, because even Ganon had been forgotten (the maiden doesn't remember his name). So it must be something that happened before FS, but after ALttP.

SOAP, on Jul 21 2006, 10:19 PM, said:

I don't see how ALttP can fit between TMC and the FS games at all.

Assuming TMC either leads into are is FS's backstory, Vaati is sealed in the Four Sword which which is enshrined in the FS Shrine but winds up in Ganon's possesion somehow in the Palace of power, is seperated into four swords while Vaati supposed to be still imprisoned inside with Four seperate Shadow Links guarding them. Then it has to be put bacxk in the Four Swords shrine to line up with FS's begining all the while Vaati makes no escape. Um, this makes too much assumption. Even if you assume the FS backstory doesn't involve TMC and takes place after ALttP, I think it makes more sense to put ALttP after FSA. It'd explain the existence of dark world in FSA, which wouldn't exist after ALttP, and why Ganon has the FS in the PoTFS.

It took me five minutes to know what PoTFS mean....

Yeah, I know it explains those things. But you have forgotten about a little thing. Between OoT and ALttP is Ganon sealed in the SR. But Ganon is in FSA. Then it can be either before OoT or after ALttP. It's not before OoT because Ganon is an ancient demon REBORN. Then, it must be after ALttP.

Jumbie, on Jul 22 2006, 03:21 AM, said:

Bad day, Arturo? You shouldn't have taken this the wrong way. Fyxe isn't causing language problems; that expression actually made me smile

Yeah

Jumbie, on Jul 22 2006, 03:21 AM, said:

See people, Arturo also believes that the Light Force is the Triforce. While you successfully showed me that it might as well be a different thing, no one's trying to teach him too...

Quote

The second...
Well, you call it light force, but it is a source of limitless magical power.
If Vaati were to get it now, it would be devastating.

Light force is not its true name, as Ezlo says, but the name humans give it. It remembers too much to the Triforce. After all, the Triforce is in the Four Swords series.

[Fyxe]

Arturo, on Jul 22 2006, 12:40 PM, said:

I am sorry, I overreacted. I know it's no excuse, but I was having a bad week, and I also didn't like that I had the look for that word in FOUR WEB DICTIONARIES! because it wasn't in any. I am really sorry.

Mm. Don't worry about it, if you had a bad week you had a bad week, people can take things the wrong way on bad weeks. I know I do sometimes.

The word don't exist. It's like... Snaglepuss. Ratmonkeys. Like that.

[MikePetersSucks]

Quote

Light force is not its true name, as Ezlo says, but the name humans give it. It remembers too much to the Triforce. After all, the Triforce is in the Four Swords series.

Yea, but what in the hell are the chances that they'd give it a name so similar to it's real name? Assuming the Triforce isn't also a Hylian-given name, but I would figure that the Light Force simply has a Picori name Hylians can't pronounce or something. But yea, one single Triforce piece doesn't bring "Limitless Magical Power" to mind.

[Jumbie]

I know I kinda asked for it, but now let's keep the Light Force discussion in the TMC thread, okay?

One thing that hasn't been delved into yet, here: The backstory of FS. Since it seems unnatural to put OoT and ALttP in between TMC and FS, we have to find a way to make it possible. I'll see if the FS backstory could be understood as a mix of multiple legends:

Quote

FS manual: Long ago, in the kingdom of Hyrule, there appeared a Wind Sorcerer named Vaati. Vaati could bend the wind to his will and used this awful power to terrorize many villages of Hyrule. In his assault on the villages, Vaati would kidnap any beautiful girls who caught his fancy.

Now, of course the events refer primarily to TMC. But then it says he terrorized the villages of Hyrule and kidnapped many girls, both of which he didn't do in TMC. So these statements must refer to another event. Maybe to the catastrophes prior to ALttP, which happened countless centuries after TMC? They were created by Agahnim, another sorcerer, who actually kidnapped Seven Maidens. A name confusion of Vaati and Agahnim can happen very easily, over the ages.

Quote

Many knights from the castle and other brave men set out to subdue the sorcerer and rescue the girls, but each one fell in turn to Vaati's awesome power. Just as the people had begun to lose hope, a lone young boy travelling with little but a sword at his side appeared.

Sounds suspiciously like the Imprisoning War legend from ALttP.

Quote

When this boy heard what was happening, he said only, "I will defeat this sorcerer." He boldly entered Vaati's palace, mystically trapped the evil sorcerer inside the blade of his sword, and returned the young girls to their villages. The boy then went deep into the forest and disappeared.

The last line sounds like MM.

Quote

The villagers asked the girls how a boy so young could have saved them all and defeated the sorcerer when no one else could. The young girls told a story of how with just a wave of his sword, the boy's body shattered into four pieces, each of which then formed a complete copy of the boy. These four young boys then worked together to defeat the sorcerer.

The sword mechanics weren't necessarily explained by the maidens. TMC's Zelda alone could have passed on that knowlegde.

Quote

The people did not believe the story, but they called it the Four Sword nonetheless. As rumours of the blade's power to divide a person into four entities spread, the people built a shrine to protect it.

A shrine for it was built, but that doesn't necessarily mean the temple where it was built in didn't already exist earlier on. This temple should be the Pyramid of Power, where the Four Sword Palace also is in ALttP GBA. Although in FSA Link enters the Shrine through a little forest, that could still be an entrance to the Dark World, directly to the Pyramid of Power.

So, if we open our minds to accept that the FS backstory is actually a highly distorted account of TMC merged with elements from all other games happening before FS, it works smoothly. But I'm sure I'll be accused of fanficcing, like so often...

[Showsni]

Or just put the FS backstory as a speerate story in between TMC and FS sometime. On its own, the four swords games go:
Hero of Men story - TMC - FS BS - FS - FSA.

[Hero of Legend]

Quote

One thing that hasn't been delved into yet, here: The backstory of FS. Since it seems unnatural to put OoT and ALttP in between TMC and FS, we have to find a way to make it possible.

I'm not getting into that argument, although I would say it is quite possible, assuming the light force isn't the Triforce. And the whole FS series seem to have more to do with TWW than ALttP, IMO...

Jumbie said

Now, of course the events refer primarily to TMC. But then it says he terrorized the villages of Hyrule and kidnapped many girls, both of which he didn't do in TMC. So these statements must refer to another event. Maybe to the catastrophes prior to ALttP, which happened countless centuries after TMC? They were created by Agahnim, another sorcerer, who actually kidnapped Seven Maidens. A name confusion of Vaati and Agahnim can happen very easily, over the ages.

The FS back story doesn't refer to anything but itself. It is not TMC, and it sure as hell isn't ALttP, or any other Zelda game for that matter. It is its own story, which *gasp* doesn't refer to any game! And it doesn't have to - ALttP's back story didn't do it either.

If we're lucky, Nintendo will make a game about it and fill out this "hole" like they did with OoT. However, there is no guarantee for that.

Quote

Sounds suspiciously like the Imprisoning War legend from ALttP.

Except there was no Hero in the IW legend. And Vaati wasn't there. And the Knights didn't fight him. And there were no maidens.

Quote

The last line sounds like MM.

I think that's more of a reference to the Minish Woods, actually... (Made in retrospect, like AoL's Old Man, of course.)

Quote

The sword mechanics weren't necessarily explained by the maidens. TMC's Zelda alone could have passed on that knowlegde.

But that would be changing an explicitly stated fact to suit your theory.

Quote

A shrine for it was built, but that doesn't necessarily mean the temple where it was built in didn't already exist earlier on. This temple should be the Pyramid of Power, where the Four Sword Palace also is in ALttP GBA. Although in FSA Link enters the Shrine through a little forest, that could still be an entrance to the Dark World, directly to the Pyramid of Power.

And what about the "other" Pyramid of Power in FSA? You know, the one in the Dessert?

Besides that, what you said just now makes no sense whatsoever.

Quote

So, if we open our minds to accept that the FS backstory is actually a highly distorted account of TMC merged with elements from all other games happening before FS, it works smoothly.

Hm... You have a very strange defenition of "smooth." I'm thinking it means "Goes against the intentions of the creators", but I'm not sure. (Bad joke, I know... )

Quote

But I'm sure I'll be accused of fanficcing, like so often...

Aww, that's what I get for starting to write my reply before reading your whole post...

Edited by Hero of Legend, 24 July 2006 - 05:52 PM.

[Fyxe]

Hero of Legend, on Jul 24 2006, 11:51 PM, said:

It is its own story, which *gasp* doesn't refer to any game! And it doesn't have to - ALttP's back story didn't do it either.

Not until they made a game based around the Imprisoning War, no.

[Hero of Legend]

That's why I wrote it in past tense.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 25 July 2006 - 03:00 PM.

[SOAP]

Arturo, on Jul 22 2006, 11:40 AM, said:

Yeah, I know it explains those things. But you have forgotten about a little thing. Between OoT and ALttP is Ganon sealed in the SR. But Ganon is in FSA. Then it can be either before OoT or after ALttP. It's not before OoT because Ganon is an ancient demon REBORN. Then, it must be after ALttP.

Uh, no I didn't forget anything. I just have very little reason to believe FSA should go after ALTTP and all the reasons why I shouldn't. When it really boils down to it, I really don't care whether he appears outside the sacred realm between OoT and ALttP. He'd have to in TWW if you went by a Single Timeline. But this is a Split Timeline so why can't FSA be in a seperate timeline from ALttP? To me, FSA seems to parallel with ALTTP [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]. They could be split timeline counterparts that take place roughly around the same time, in simmilar looking Hyrules, just on two seperate timelines with two seperate histories. But if FSA must be in the same timeline as ALttP, then before it is the best place for me. So what if he's reborn outside of the Sacred Realm. That's not the same as escaping from it. It just gets his foot outside the door much like the whole deal with Afganhim.

It may also be possible that FSA Ganondorf is a totally seperate person who was just some punk Gerudo who got greedy and ended up being poessed by the real Ganon. I mean no one even saw the connection between the two, not even one of the Shrine Maidens.

[Jumbie]

Hero of Legend, on Jul 25 2006, 12:51 AM, said:

The FS back story doesn't refer to anything but itself. It is not TMC, and it sure as hell isn't ALttP, or any other Zelda game for that matter. It is its own story, which *gasp* doesn't refer to any game!

If we're lucky, Nintendo will make a game about it and fill out this "hole" like they did with OoT. However, there is no guarantee for that.

Exactly, no guarantee for another FS game, or whatever type of game was originally planned to retell the FS backstory in detail. For this reason, I think we shouldn't wait years for such a game to come, but just accept that TMC is the game which the FS BS refers to.

Quote

I think that's more of a reference to the Minish Woods, actually... (Made in retrospect, like AoL's Old Man, of course.)

That's also possible, yes. But it's the most unimportant line in FS' backstory, anyway.

Quote

But that would be changing an explicitly stated fact to suit your theory.

Quote

Hm... You have a very strange defenition of "smooth." I'm thinking it means "Goes against the intentions of the creators", but I'm not sure. (Bad joke, I know... )

I'm not changing the canon fact that the legend known by the time of FS told such a story, I'm just interpreting this legend in a way it matches up with TMC and other games.
It's essential to realize that the legends in Zelda games are only canon in that their words were passed on like that, but that's far from saying everything really happened like the legends tell! In fact, we fans can interpret the intro legends like we want, and I'm fully convinced that the developers want us to make our very own interpretations of them.

Quote

And what about the "other" Pyramid of Power in FSA? You know, the one in the Dessert?

The desert pyramid has absolutely nothing to do with ALttP's pyramid, not even the exterior architecture bears the slightest resemblance. The pyramid in FSA was built in Hyrule by the ancestors of the Zuna tribe, whereas the Pyramid of Power in ALttP is standing tall in the Sacred Realm, being the resting place of the Triforce and place of gathering for the Seven Sages. You might also call it Temple of Light.

Quote

And the whole FS series seem to have more to do with TWW than ALttP, IMO...

Interesting to hear, but what makes you think that? Remember, no existing Zelda game can possibly take place after TWW/PH - that is canon by King Daphnes saying, "But this land will not be Hyrule... It will be your land." ..Oh, and Daphnes isn't telling a legend, just to make sure my own words can't be used against me.

Edited by Jumbie, 25 July 2006 - 07:07 PM.

[Fyxe]

Jumbie, on Jul 26 2006, 01:05 AM, said:

Exactly, no guarantee for another FS game, or whatever type of game was originally planned to retell the FS backstory in detail. For this reason, I think we shouldn't wait years for such a game to come, but just accept that TMC is the game which the FS BS refers to.

That's silly. Just because a game hasn't been made to cover a backstory doesn't mean the backstory can't exist on it's own. AoL never ever had it's backstory covered in any other game, yet nobody says 'ALttP must be AoL's backstory cos it has an evil wizard'.

Quote

I'm not changing the canon fact that the legend known by the time of FS told such a story, I'm just interpreting this legend in a way it matches up with TMC and other games.

Wasn't Vaati destroyed, though?

Quote

The desert pyramid has absolutely nothing to do with ALttP's pyramid, not even the exterior architecture bears the slightest resemblance.

Actually, if nothing else, the Pyramid in FSA was inspired by the one in ALttP. I actually think the connection could run deeper, simply due to it being the location of the trident.

Quote

You might also call it Temple of Light.

Except it's not. At all.

Quote

"But this land will not be Hyrule... It will be your land." ..Oh, and Daphnes isn't telling a legend, just to make sure my own words can't be used against me.

Technically, it could be *called* Hyrule, and then who is to know the difference?

Edited by Fyxe, 25 July 2006 - 07:27 PM.

[Arturo]

Hero of Legend, on Jul 25 2006, 12:51 AM, said:

I'm not getting into that argument, although I would say it is quite possible, assuming the light force isn't the Triforce. And the whole FS series seem to have more to do with TWW than ALttP, IMO...

What does it have to do? The Graphical Style? But nothing more really. FSA in particular is striongly tied to ALttP.

SOAP, on Jul 26 2006, 01:07 AM, said:

Uh, no I didn't forget anything. I just have very little reason to believe FSA should go after ALTTP and all the reasons why I shouldn't. When it really boils down to it, I really don't care whether he appears outside the sacred realm between OoT and ALttP. He'd have to in TWW if you went by a Single Timeline. But this is a Split Timeline so why can't FSA be in a seperate timeline from ALttP? To me, FSA seems to parallel with ALTTP [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]. They could be split timeline counterparts that take place roughly around the same time, in simmilar looking Hyrules, just on two seperate timelines with two seperate histories. But if FSA must be in the same timeline as ALttP, then before it is the best place for me. So what if he's reborn outside of the Sacred Realm. That's not the same as escaping from it. It just gets his foot outside the door much like the whole deal with Afganhim.

It may also be possible that FSA Ganondorf is a totally seperate person who was just some punk Gerudo who got greedy and ended up being poessed by the real Ganon. I mean no one even saw the connection between the two, not even one of the Shrine Maidens.

Well, their names are both Ganondorf, and no-one except Zelda says identifies Ganon as the ANCIENT DEMON REBORN. To be reborn, one has to be dead. And before ALttP he's not dead. And why they didn't see a connection? Because they had forgotten about Ganon, they didn't remember him.

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 02:27 AM, said:

That's silly. Just because a game hasn't been made to cover a backstory doesn't mean the backstory can't exist on it's own. AoL never ever had it's backstory covered in any other game, yet nobody says 'ALttP must be AoL's backstory cos it has an evil wizard'.
Wasn't Vaati destroyed, though?

That's why I believe Vaati is reborn in FS BS as a wind mage, something he wasn't in TMC.

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 02:27 AM, said:

Actually, if nothing else, the Pyramid in FSA was inspired by the one in ALttP. I actually think the connection could run deeper, simply due to it being the location of the trident.
Except it's not. At all.

It is: both are in the very centre of the Sacred Realm, both are the resting place of the Triforce, and Pyramids have a strong asociated with light and sun. Also, the Pyramid in FSA was built by the Zunas, and I am pretty sure it's the same we see in OoT in the Haunted Wasteland.

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 02:27 AM, said:

Technically, it could be *called* Hyrule, and then who is to know the difference?

The King told Zelda not to name it Hyrule. Plus, neither Tetra nopr Link are tied to Hyrule, so why would they call it like that?

[Hero of Legend]

Jumbie said

Exactly, no guarantee for another FS game, or whatever type of game was originally planned to retell the FS backstory in detail. For this reason, I think we shouldn't wait years for such a game to come, but just accept that TMC is the game which the FS BS refers to.

Why should we accept something that is clearly not the intention of the creators? There never were any plans for a game between TMC and FS, but that doesn't mean important events can't take place between them. We don't need a new game to tell us that (although it would be nice.)

Quote

That's also possible, yes. But it's the most unimportant line in FS' backstory, anyway.

Well, if they ever make a game about FS' backstory, it would probably mean that the Hero lived with the Minish for some reason, and that's kinda important I think.

Quote

I'm not changing the canon fact that the legend known by the time of FS told such a story, I'm just interpreting this legend in a way it matches up with TMC and other games. It's essential to realize that the legends in Zelda games are only canon in that their words were passed on like that, but that's far from saying everything really happened like the legends tell! In fact, we fans can interpret the intro legends like we want, and I'm fully convinced that the developers want us to make our very own interpretations of them.

And why would you do that? We have been given no reason to believe the FS legend is wrong in any way, so I don't understand why you would assume it is.

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The desert pyramid has absolutely nothing to do with ALttP's pyramid, not even the exterior architecture bears the slightest resemblance. The pyramid in FSA was built in Hyrule by the ancestors of the Zuna tribe, whereas the Pyramid of Power in ALttP is standing tall in the Sacred Realm, being the resting place of the Triforce

Ganon can transport things between the Light World and the Dark World. This includes the Pyramid of Power (Duh!). And why wouldn't he? It's the perfect base of operations and resting place for the Triforce.

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and place of gathering for the Seven Sages.

Habuwha?

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You might also call it Temple of Light.

Not much left of that in ALttP...

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Interesting to hear, but what makes you think that? Remember, no existing Zelda game can possibly take place after TWW/PH - that is canon by King Daphnes saying, "But this land will not be Hyrule... It will be your land." ..Oh, and Daphnes isn't telling a legend, just to make sure my own words can't be used against me.

That is a matter of interpretation. Some people chose to take the King's words (far too) literally. I do not. Remember that the King said this as a reply to Zelda's plead for him to join them, and then think of how he says that "He has lived bound to Hyrule." So basically, the King said the new land won't be THE Hyrule that he was King over, but it could still be "Hyrule" to Link and Zelda.

Arturo said

What does it have to do? The Graphical Style? But nothing more really. FSA in particular is striongly tied to ALttP.

What are these ties to ALttP you speak of, then? I, for one, think the fact that Hyrule is an island sort of points to a post-apocalyptic-flood placement.

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That's why I believe Vaati is reborn in FS BS as a wind mage, something he wasn't in TMC.

Reincarnation is unnecessary in this case, as Vaati is never actually said to die in TMC (And not in FSA either, BTW). And as for him becoming the Wind Sorcerer, well, I'd bet the Palace of Winds and the Wind Tribe have something to do with that.

Hell, he might just have found the Wind Waker lying on the ground or something.

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The King told Zelda not to name it Hyrule. Plus, neither Tetra nopr Link are tied to Hyrule, so why would they call it like that?

Zelda said

We WILL find it! The land that will be the next Hyrule!

Yeah, why would they, huh?

Edited by Hero of Legend, 26 July 2006 - 08:32 AM.

[Fyxe]

Arturo, on Jul 26 2006, 11:40 AM, said:

That's why I believe Vaati is reborn in FS BS as a wind mage, something he wasn't in TMC.

Well... He was. He still had some wind-based attacks, I believe.

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It is: both are in the very centre of the Sacred Realm, both are the resting place of the Triforce, and Pyramids have a strong asociated with light and sun.

1 - The Pyramid of Power has nothing to do with light or sun, if anything it's about darkness.
2 - The Pyramid of Power was only the resting place of the Triforce after Ganon got it in the first place.
3 - The Temple of Light was not the resting place of the Triforce, as far as I remember.
4 - Was the Temple of Light ever said to be in the center of the Sacred Realm?

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Also, the Pyramid in FSA was built by the Zunas, and I am pretty sure it's the same we see in OoT in the Haunted Wasteland.

There is no pyramid in the Haunted Wasteland. I know what you're thinking of, and it's not a pyramid at all. Also, we know virtually nothing about the Zunas, so that doesn't mean anything.

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The King told Zelda not to name it Hyrule.

Uh, no he didn't.

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Plus, neither Tetra nopr Link are tied to Hyrule, so why would they call it like that?

...Tetra is Princess Zelda. Of course she's tied to Hyrule. They may call it Hyrule in respect for the doomed kingdom of their ancestors. Like the king said, it won't BE Hyrule, but is ANY Hyrule in any of the games exactly the same Hyrule? No, many of them are very different.

Hero of Legend, on Jul 26 2006, 12:30 PM, said:

What are these ties to ALttP you speak of, then? I, for one, think the fact that Hyrule is an island sort of points to a post-apocalyptic-flood placement.

There are loads of ties to ALttP, but I won't get into that... What's interesting me is that Hyrule is an island in FSA? Since when? Is it? Have I just not noticed? It has an ocean, yes, but that doesn't make it an island.

Edited by Fyxe, 26 July 2006 - 10:54 AM.

[Hero of Legend]

Fyxe said

There are loads of ties to ALttP, but I won't get into that...

Eh, those are nothing but re-used graphics and enemies. The plot, while similar, doesn't connect to ALttP as far as I'm aware.

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What's interesting me is that Hyrule is an island in FSA? Since when? Is it? Have I just not noticed? It has an ocean, yes, but that doesn't make it an island.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 26 July 2006 - 11:40 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

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It may also be possible that FSA Ganondorf is a totally seperate person who was just some punk Gerudo who got greedy and ended up being poessed by the real Ganon.

Dammit, now I have to resist the mental image of a teenage Ganon with a mohawk and biker leather >_> Not that I'm complaining. :3

[Fyxe]

Hero of Legend, on Jul 26 2006, 05:40 PM, said:

Eh, those are nothing but re-used graphics and enemies. The plot, while similar, doesn't connect to ALttP as far as I'm aware.

No, but locations (Eastern Temple, Desert Temple, etc.) and the whole trident thing, the Dark World and Ganon himself all are very similar to ALttP. It's not a direct connection by any means, but...

But as for that map... o.o News to me. I'd like to see it close up to check whether it's actually meant to be ocean all around or if it's just a sort of... Background colour.

Edited by Fyxe, 26 July 2006 - 12:58 PM.

[Arturo]

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

No, but locations (Eastern Temple, Desert Temple, etc.) and the whole trident thing, the Dark World and Ganon himself all are very similar to ALttP. It's not a direct connection by any means, but...

And the thing about rescuing maidens

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

But as for that map... o.o News to me. I'd like to see it close up to check whether it's actually meant to be ocean all around or if it's just a sort of... Background colour.

It's an ocean, the Second Stage you play is on the coast. Anyway, that's not that new. In LoZ and AoL there isa alos an ocean.

[Fyxe]

Yes, but whether it is meant to be an ocean all the way around on that image is not entirely clear. It looks a bit odd in places.

[Arturo]

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

Well... He was. He still had some wind-based attacks, I believe.

Though I hardly remember TMC, I have checked the Quote FAQ, and I haven't found anything that says he is a wind mage. And as far as I remember (I could be wrong), none of his powers seems to be wind-related, but earth-related and dark attacks.

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

1 - The Pyramid of Power has nothing to do with light or sun, if anything it's about darkness.

Well, the Sacred Realm vhanged much becasue of Ganon. Moreover, in the top of the Pyramid you see the sun. I didn't say anything about the Pyramid of power beng related to sun and light, but Pyramids in general.

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

2 - The Pyramid of Power was only the resting place of the Triforce after Ganon got it in the first place.

How do you know it wasn't the resting place before? It's in the same place, the very centre of the SR.

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

3 - The Temple of Light was not the resting place of the Triforce, as far as I remember.

*cough*

'Rauru' said

He obtained the Triforce from the Temple of Light

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

4 - Was the Temple of Light ever said to be in the center of the Sacred Realm?

*cough*

'Rauru' said

The Temple of Light, situated in the very center of the Sacred Realm

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

There is no pyramid in the Haunted Wasteland. I know what you're thinking of, and it's not a pyramid at all. Also, we know virtually nothing about the Zunas, so that doesn't mean anything.

You can see the pyramid in Haunted Wasteland if you play the Song of Storms, and it's clearly a pyramid. And about Zunas, we know they built the Pyramid, not much more, but it's a fact they did.

Fyxe, on Jul 26 2006, 05:50 PM, said:

Uh, no he didn't.

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W-Wait!
You could... You could come with us!
Yes, of course... We have a ship!
We can find it!
We WILL find it!
The land that will be the next Hyrule!
So...

...
Ah, but child... That land will not
be Hyrule.
It will be YOUR land!

It's quite clear, I think

Edited by Arturo, 26 July 2006 - 03:27 PM.

[SOAP]

Arturo, on Jul 26 2006, 10:40 AM, said:

Well, their names are both Ganondorf, and no-one except Zelda says identifies Ganon as the ANCIENT DEMON REBORN. To be reborn, one has to be dead. And before ALttP he's not dead. And why they didn't see a connection? Because they had forgotten about Ganon, they didn't remember him.

He can be both dead and imprisoned in the Sacred Realm in spirit. Also the reincarnated Ganondorf could just be corporeal rebirth of Ganon's human side to use as a vessel in an attempt to escape. His beast form had been revived before without his mind and spirit in OoA. Why not his human form?

[Fyxe]

Arturo, on Jul 26 2006, 08:43 PM, said:

Though I hardly remember TMC, I have checked the Quote FAQ, and I haven't found anything that says he is a wind mage. And as far as I remember (I could be wrong), none of his powers seems to be wind-related, but earth-related and dark attacks.

I'm fairly sure he uses some wind-based attacks during his first phase. I might be wrong too, but.

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Moreover, in the top of the Pyramid you see the sun. I didn't say anything about the Pyramid of power beng related to sun and light, but Pyramids in general.

Oh, that proves it then. ¬.¬

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How do you know it wasn't the resting place before? It's in the same place, the very centre of the SR.

I always thought the Triforce rested in the sky, high above anything. How you reach it, I don't know, but that was where the goddesses left the world. Obviously, Rauru says otherwise.

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You can see the pyramid in Haunted Wasteland if you play the Song of Storms, and it's clearly a pyramid.

It's not a pyramid. You're wrong. Sorry. People have checked. It's just an oddly shaped polygon that makes up a sand dune near the edge of the map. You can see how small it actually is when you get close.

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And about Zunas, we know they built the Pyramid, not much more, but it's a fact they did.

I never said it wasn't.

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It's quite clear, I think

You said he told them not to call it Hyrule. That's blatantly wrong. He doesn't say that.