409 replies to this topic

[LionHarted]

You can't just discount all side quests as easter eggs.

You didn't read what I said.

I said anything obtained from side-quests unrelated to the plot or that is inherently unrelated to the plot are Easter Eggs. This includes all the items obtained from Linked Game Passwords in OoS/OoA, the figurines and text that goes along with the Tingle Tuner sideplot, and the random Mario cameos strewn throughout the games.

[Fyxe]

Everything I described was unrelated to the actual *plot*. Most things in Zelda are unreleated to the plot. You can't discount something just because it doesn't advance the plot.

[LionHarted]

Everything I described was unrelated to the actual *plot*. Most things in Zelda are unreleated to the plot. You can't discount something just because it doesn't advance the plot.

You fail to understand the concept.

Getting Easter Eggs is not a storyline event. Ever.

None of the OoS/OoA password items have any bearing on the story, whatsoever. The Masks in Majora's Mask, on the other hand, do. None of the Tingle sideplots in TWW have any bearing on the story, whatsoever. Tempering the Master Sword in ALttP, on the other hand (to a degree) does.

[Fyxe]

How does tempering the Master Sword affect the plot? How does Link getting the Mirror Shield, or the Blue or Red Mail affect the plot? It doesn't.

Your definition is flawed and biased to only include things you want it to include.

99% of sidequests have no baring on the plot. For instance, the spells Link gets from the Great Fairies in OoT (including the Spin Attack). Or the Biggoron's Sword. That doesn't make them uncanon easter eggs.

[LionHarted]

How does tempering the Master Sword affect the plot? How does Link getting the Mirror Shield, or the Blue or Red Mail affect the plot? It doesn't.

Fine. It doesn't.

Good thing it's irrelevant.

99% of sidequests have no baring on the plot. For instance, the spells Link gets from the Great Fairies in OoT (including the Spin Attack). Or the Biggoron's Sword. That doesn't make them uncanon easter eggs.

It doesn't matter, because we've yet to see them have any bearing on the timeline anyway.

[Fyxe]

Ok, so according to you, virtually every sidequest is uncanon. YAY.

That's just stupid.

[LionHarted]

Ok, so according to you, virtually every sidequest is uncanon. YAY.

Any sidequest that doesn't contribute to the plot doesn't contribute to the plot.

Is that such a bad thing to maintain?

[Doopliss]

I think that we should define an Easter Egg as items or cutscenes that are obtained [can you obtain a cutscene, or am I using the wrong verb?] through a quest that can only be done by using an extra feature that requires the player to use something else apart from the game and the console to access it. Or an object that is completely out of the main context of the games.

The Master Sword in the Oracle games and the Legend of the Fairy would fit the first definition, while the telephones of LA and the Mario paintings would fit the second one.

[LionHarted]

I think that we should define an Easter Egg as items or cutscenes that are obtained [can you obtain a cutscene, or am I using the wrong verb?] through a quest that can only be done by using an extra feature that requires the player to use something else apart from the game and the console to access it. Or an object that is completely out of the main context of the games.

That's what I said originally. <.<

Although, now this begs the question as to whether or not the Tingle Tuner is an Easter Egg, since it is a required item--you literally cannot go through the game without obtaining it--but it is also a component of an "extra feature."

Edited by LionHarted, 28 August 2006 - 08:59 PM.

[Hero of Slime]

I would not say that the Secrets in OoX would count as an easter egg by doopliss's defintion. I know that they require the additional game, but wasn't OoX intended to be played as two games? I mean you would not say that Link's fights with Ganon and Twinrova are not canon.

[LionHarted]

I would not say that the Secrets in OoX would count as an easter egg by doopliss's defintion. I know that they require the additional game, but wasn't OoX intended to be played as two games? I mean you would not say that Link's fights with Ganon and Twinrova are not canon.

Link's fights with Ganon and Twinrova are part of the storyline, so of course they are canon.

The password items, on the other hand, are not. Neither is the hidden GBA shop.

[Jumbie]

..So you've all decided to find a definition for 'easter egg'? Fine, I'm going to join.

Most of the easter eggs in TWW are merely viewable, not obtainable: the masks in the Nintendo Gallery, or the Hylian script on Phantom Ganon's sword.

The Master Sword in the Oracle games and the Legend of the Fairy would fit the first definition

You take the Legend of the Fairy as an easter egg? Firstly, there's no need to as it can be worked into either timeline (Single or Split) without contradictions, secondly an employee of NoA stated that it has actual relevance to the storyline.

while the telephones of LA and the Mario paintings would fit the second one.

The telephones in LA are by no means easter eggs! They're a legitimate part of the gameplay through which Link receives important hints. It's a dream world, after all, so why can't modern devices appear there. Or would you say the moon rocket in MM's bomb shop is an easter egg, just because you find it too modern to have been invented in Zelda?

Although, now this begs the question as to whether or not the Tingle Tuner is an Easter Egg, since it is a required item--you literally cannot go through the game without obtaining it--but it is also a component of an "extra feature."

The Tuner, well... I'd say its appearance as a GBA is an easter egg, but the item itself might be necessary for Link to interact with Tingle. Probably the Tuner sends out some magic waves to Tingle, like a remote control, to summon him wherever on the Great Sea Link is?

Edited by Jumbie, 28 August 2006 - 10:22 PM.

[Hero of Slime]

Tell that to doopliss, it was his definition that said anything that requires hardware other than the game and console. By that definition the fight with Ganon is an easter egg.

I think that since OoX was intended to be played as two games with continuity, the player was intended to use the Secrets. Therefore the Secrets are canon.

[coinilius]

Also in regards to the Tingle Tuner - if you discount it as canon, then what about Knuckle? You can only meet him if you use the Tingle Tuner.

[LionHarted]

Tell that to doopliss, it was his definition that said anything that requires hardware other than the game and console. By that definition the fight with Ganon is an easter egg.

You only get the password to play a linked game when you beat the other game. You only get the passwords to unlock secrets in a linked game on the other game AFTER you've beaten the other game. They're as canonical as the invisible Hero's Clothes in the 2nd playthrough of TWW.

[Hero of Slime]

OoX was intended to be one storyline on two different games, the secrets are merely what links them. That is different form TWW's second quest.

[mmmmm_PIE]

Personally, I don't beleive you can find a perfect definition of Easteregg. Again its an intent thing.

There is no doubt that Capcom intended the final battle with OoX's Ganon to be a major element of the storyline. It is not an easteregg.
There is no doubt that Nintendo intended the Mario Paintings to a comical connection to their other products, added purely for the amusement of their fans, and having no bearing on the storyline. They are EEs

Many other things are added to neither bennifit the storyline or act as an egg. They are simply there to enhance the gameplay. Examples include OOT'S Nayru's Love, tWW's Hero's charm, and, of course OoX's Mastersword. These details are canon, truth about the series, but they should not be used in timeline discussion as they are play elements, not story elements.

[Doopliss]

But I never said Easter Eggs weren't canon... I think that they are as important as any other canon fact if they play a major role in the plot. What does it mean to play a major role in the plot? I would say it's something that affects the ending.

Edited by Doopliss, 01 September 2006 - 05:21 PM.

[Jumbie]

But I never said Easter Eggs weren't canon... I think that they are as important as any other canon fact if they play a major role in the plot.

The thing is, objects that have been agreed on to be Easter Eggs *must not* appear in storyline discussions. If you want a certain thing to play a role in the true storyline, then it cannot possibly have been classified as an Easter Egg before.
Easter Egg = a thing that only the player is able to see and/or recognize as something funny/familiar, but not the "real" Link.

[mohammedali]

I've made this point before, but it seems someone keeps bringing it back to the same topic again and again.

What is Canon in a game...
The fast and hard rule that most gamers I know go by for game canon is as follows:
1) Everything that MUST happen in a game for it to progress in terms of storyline MUST be canon.
e.g. Intros, key moments that always happen in games, certain bosses, single endings
2) Everything that COULD happen in a game irrespective of storyline progression COULD be argued as canon unless proven incorrect or inconsistant. It COULD also be argued as suggested but not definate.
e.g. Almost everything else in a game which is optional/multi-pathed (i.e. the event may or may not occur when playing the game through).
3) If something that COULD happen in a game contradicts something that MUST happen in a game, then what MUST happen is considered canon, and what COULD happen is not.
e.g. game over endings versus game completion endings, many Easter Eggs

N.B. Some Easter Eggs also exist in category 2. An Easter Egg by definition is something added as a fun present to the player that is not meant to be taken seriously. In this case, I would lean towards the Egg being at most, suggestive. However, if definate canon does not contradict it (ala category 2), then it COULD be argued to be true (just never proven without further evidence). For this reason, these types of Easter Eggs can be suggested to be either likely or unlikely dependant on the players views, but like all good eggs, should be taken with a pinch of salt (excuse the pun).

Now. If we're going to have a constructive discussion about this, I suggest people discuss what they agree or disagree with in the above 3 statements, and (most importantly), why. General concensus should tell us what the term seems to mean to other people.

Simply state the point you agree with or disagree with, and explain why it does or doesn't work. Thanks.

Mohammed Ali

Edited by mohammedali, 13 October 2006 - 07:17 PM.