409 replies to this topic

[LionHarted]

Fyxe is right.

The flaw with the "MM is the journey" theory is that time-travel could also be the journey.
The flaw with the "time-travel is the journey" theory is that time-travel doesn't actually involve him leaving Hyrule, just leaving that particular period in Hyrule's history.

[Fyxe]

But to the people of Hyrule, it all means the same thing. He leaves Hyrule as they know it. So worrying about the exact moment he was 'seperated from the elements that make him a hero' is meaningless. Whoever wrote that legend probably didn't know. For all we know Link split the Triforce of Courage himself at some point and hid it in chests throughout the land.

[Doopliss]

Oh, let's see Jumbie, I think that I have posted something on that before. Here's a quote. Maybe I can find something else...

LoZ's backastory states that Ganon has stolen the Triforce of Power a long time ago. The Triforce was complete in ALttP, but probably after that the king hid the Triforce of Courage and Ganon stole the Triforce of Power. Did this happen before or after the FS games? I think that the split took place before the FS games because that would explain why the Dark World isn't the Golden Land though Essence of the Triforce told Link in ALttP's ending that the Dark World would surely be destroyed. Interesting, indeed! Finally something new to me.

There you have it.

[Jumbie]

The Triforce was complete in ALttP, but probably after that the king hid the Triforce of Courage and Ganon stole the Triforce of Power. I think that the split took place before the FS games because that would explain why the Dark World isn't the Golden Land though Essence of the Triforce told Link in ALttP's ending that the Dark World would surely be destroyed. Interesting, indeed! Finally something new to me.

Thanks for replying, Doopliss!
As you can see in my timeline I also place the Sleeping Zelda story before FS(A), but I didn't really think through why it shouldn't come after. You've given a really good explanation for it!

There you have it.

Well, I asked people to counter the order LoZ>AoL>FSA not because it was the one I used, but to see if someone else besides mmm_PIE could imagine to go with it.
Actually I had wished for some more people to give their opinion on OoX, FSA and LoZ/AoL, but meh, it doesn't look like it, so the current results of this thread look like this:
(TMC) > OoT (Split) >
Child: > MM > (TMC) > ALttP > (LA) > OoX > (LA) > FS > FSA > LoZ > AoL
Adult: > TP > TWW > PH

(I hope at least this will give some conflict potential to pick back up the debate...)

[Showsni]

(TMC) > OoT (Split) >
Child: > MM > (TMC) > ALttP > (LA) > OoX > (LA) > FS > FSA > LoZ > AoL
Adult: > TP > TWW > PH

But TWW references MM. Possibly. Or I suppose it could be a reference to TRCRL...

[Jumbie]

But TWW references MM. Possibly.

There are indeed many things in TWW that could be MM references, yes. But as for the textual references, all of them can in a Split Timeline be applied to refer to Link's final journey to the past, and the imagery (like the masks in the Nintendo Gallery) are easter eggs.

Or I suppose it could be a reference to TRCRL...

You mean the Legend of the Fairy? Well, Termina would have to be connected to both Hyrule timelines, so Tingle accidentally travelled from Termina to Adult Hyrule, which is how TWW can make mention his legend.

And the Rito who is described to be a descendant of an ancient postman, remember if we put TMC before OoT, this postman spoken of doesn't have to be the Terminan one, but may as well be the one from TMC. Even if we rather put TMC after OoT, then the same explanation as for Tingle applies: the Terminan postman found his way to Adult Hyrule.

Edited by Jumbie, 22 August 2006 - 04:40 PM.

[Hero of Slime]

To get this done I'll agree with the placement of OoX before FSA.

[Jumbie]

To get this done I'll agree with the placement of OoX before FSA.

Well that's great, but... 'To ge this done'?! Did I miss something, has this thread surpassed its eat-by date?

[Showsni]

Or I suppose it could be a reference to TRCRL...

You mean the Legend of the Fairy? Well, Termina would have to be connected to both Hyrule timelines, so Tingle accidentally travelled from Termina to Adult Hyrule, which is how TWW can make mention his legend.

I mean Tingle's Rose Covered Rupee Land, or whatever. As in, the Legend of the Fairy could be referring to that.

[Jumbie]

I mean Tingle's Rose Covered Rupee Land, or whatever. As in, the Legend of the Fairy could be referring to that.

Of course, I did understand your abbrevation, but I was already thinking one step further

[LionHarted]

But as for the textual references, all of them can in a Split Timeline be applied to refer to Link's final journey to the past, and the imagery (like the masks in the Nintendo Gallery) are easter eggs.

A quick question--if the Tingle sideplot is an easter egg, why is the OoX Master Sword gimmick canon?

Edited by LionHarted, 24 August 2006 - 07:20 AM.

[mohammedali]

Who said the OoX MS gimmick is canon? It's an optional extra that contradicts a definate canon fact. Last I remember, most people saw it as nothing more than an easter egg.

Mohammed Ali

[Jumbie]

A quick question--if the Tingle sideplot is an easter egg, why is the OoX Master Sword gimmick canon?

One moment. If you had read the post you quoted until the end, you would've seen that the Legend of the Fairy is actually not among those things in TWW that are easter eggs.
I gave a feasible explanation on how tidings from Termina could've reached the Adult Timeline - an explanation that nobody who accepts the LotF as a legitimate sideplot can get around, actually.

Who said the OoX MS gimmick is canon? It's an optional extra that contradicts a definate canon fact. Last I remember, most people saw it as nothing more than an easter egg.

Well, times have changed, alas.. That's not to say that I myself had accepted the MS in OoX as canon, but some others apparently did. But that's not the point.

Anyway, it's great to see you back, Mohammed!

[Fyxe]

Oh come off it. 'Times have changed, alas'? You ain't been here long enough to say stuff like that. Besides, arguing that fans don't make the canon hardly deserves that sort of response.

You can't decide what an easter egg is or what isn't just on a whim. I don't necessarily argue that the Master Sword in the Oracle games is canon, rather I argue that it's not necessarily an easter egg just because people say it is. Not many would consider it an easter egg if it wasn't for the final line in ALttP, and that line is questionable as it is, what with the events of Kodai no Sekiban.

The Mirror Shield appears in various forms throughout the series but as soon as the Master Sword makes a surprise appearance people have a fit over whether it's canon or not. That doesn't make much sense to me. Link can use it to kill Ganon. That's canon enough for me.

[mohammedali]

Well, times have changed, alas.. That's not to say that I myself had accepted the MS in OoX as canon, but some others apparently did. But that's not the point.

Anyway, it's great to see you back, Mohammed!

Well, it's been a while since I've been here, and there seem to be some new faces around. Hi *waves at new faces*
Don't know how much time I'll be spending here though. I just got married last week, and the wife doesn't seem to approve of me spending too much time on Zelda

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

*Whipcrack noise*

Teehee.

[coinilius]

Congratulations on the wedding mohammedali!

[Jumbie]

Oh come off it. 'Times have changed, alas'? You ain't been here long enough to say stuff like that.

Well, I only said the plain truth. He said 'Last I remember', so I accordingly said 'times have changed'. Since I remember myself that there were hardly any people taking OoX MS for canon before he left, but now there are many, I haven't done anything but said the truth.

I don't necessarily argue that the Master Sword in the Oracle games is canon, rather I argue that it's not necessarily an easter egg just because people say it is.

In my book, easter egg = not canon

Not many would consider it an easter egg if it wasn't for the final line in ALttP, and that line is questionable as it is, what with the events of Kodai no Sekiban.

I personally don't give anything about that line. There are more important reasons why the MS in OoX can't be the same one as in the other games, but we already had that up until puking, and besides it has no timeline relevance at all.

Well, it's been a while since I've been here, and there seem to be some new faces around. Hi *waves at new faces*
Don't know how much time I'll be spending here though. I just got married last week, and the wife doesn't seem to approve of me spending too much time on Zelda

Congrats from me too!
It'd be cool if every once in a while you could take a quick look at the storyline section

[Fyxe]

In my book, easter egg = not canon

Read what you quoted before you said this again, you missed my point entirely.

There are more important reasons why the MS in OoX can't be the same one as in the other games,

Cha, I don't actually see any solid reason why it can't be the same sword. It looks and behaves just like it and is even found in the virtually same place if you do things in a certain way. The Master Sword can move and be mostly forgotten about, any object can, no matter how legendary.

But yes, lets not argue about that all day.

[spunky-monkey]

Well, it's been a while since I've been here, and there seem to be some new faces around. Hi *waves at new faces*
Don't know how much time I'll be spending here though. I just got married last week, and the wife doesn't seem to approve of me spending too much time on Zelda

Congratulations, but hopefully you'll still have time to post threads here too.

Heheh this roo will never get married.

[Doopliss]

Well, it's been a while since I've been here, and there seem to be some new faces around. Hi *waves at new faces*
Don't know how much time I'll be spending here though. I just got married last week, and the wife doesn't seem to approve of me spending too much time on Zelda

Mohammed Ali

Oh! That's really suprising, but it's great news. Congratulations.

can someone tell me what's the official timeline we have so far? like somthing that came from the developers mouth?

There's no official timeline. We just have some apparently inaccurate quotes, such as Miyamoto saying that ALttP goes after LoZ and Eiji Aonuma saying that TMC is the first game.

[Jumbie]

Read what you quoted before you said this again, you missed my point entirely.

Huh? Well, I understood it as if you meant, "I don't say the MS in OoX is canon, but I think it's not a mere easter egg". Did I misunderstand some words here?

can someone tell me what's the official timeline we have so far? like somthing that came from the developers mouth?

Hm, what we have so far... From the developers we have only many little pieces:
[OoT > MM > ALttP > LA > LoZ > AoL]
[OoT > TP > TWW > PH]
[TMC > FS > FSA]
I think these are what every fan should be willing to agree on. Now, how to combine those shreds, and where to fit in Oracles - this is what's left to us fans, at present day.
First thing you have to decide is if you wanna go with a traditional Single Timeline (orders all the games in one straight line after each other) or a Split Timeline (divides the games between two parallel universes that both follow OoT's two endings). While Single seems nice and uncomplicated, the games contradict each other too much for to neatly fit before and after each other. This is why this particular thread is reserved to theorize on the Split Timeline, where contradicting games (ALttP and TWW) happen parallel to each other in two different universes.

[Fyxe]

I was saying we can't just say it's not canon simply because someone has decided it's an easter egg. We are not the ones to decide that. But similarly, we can't say which precise backstory for the MS in the Oracle games is canon or not. Not that it matters. It's in the game so we should take it as canon unless there's some serious problem with it being canon, and I don't see anything major at all.

[Hero of Slime]

I want to know what characteristics make somthing an "easter egg"?

[Arturo]

In my opinion, it's either a stupid detail added by creators that has no relevance withe the storyline (e. g. Mario's portraits) or something optional, that shouldn't have relevance to the Timeline. Anyway, I am not sure of the second one, since MM already proved us the true relevance of side-quests, so they might not be considered canon, but easter eggs. So I like better the first definition.

Well, it's been a while since I've been here, and there seem to be some new faces around. Hi *waves at new faces*
Don't know how much time I'll be spending here though. I just got married last week, and the wife doesn't seem to approve of me spending too much time on Zelda

Congrats!

[LionHarted]

I want to know what characteristics make somthing an "easter egg"?

1) Zero bearing on actual plot;
2) Obtainable only through a side-quest that also has zero bearing on actual plot;
3) Zero references to said thing outside of said side-quest, even in context unrelated to the main plot.

[Fyxe]

1) Zero bearing on actual plot;
2) Obtainable only through a side-quest that also has zero bearing on actual plot;
3) Zero references to said thing outside of said side-quest, even in context unrelated to the main plot.

Worst definition ever. That could apply to hundreds of things in the Zelda series. By that logic, half of the whole game of Majora's Mask is an easter egg, and 50% of the islands in TWW don't exist in canon.

[LionHarted]

Worst definition ever. That could apply to hundreds of things in the Zelda series. By that logic, half of the whole game of Majora's Mask is an easter egg, and 50% of the islands in TWW don't exist in canon.

Easter eggs, by definition, have to be items, phrases, or cutscenes.

Every single sidequest in Majora's Mask contributes to the ending of the game and is intricately connected to a key item (Bomber's Notebook). Not every cutscene and/or minigame does the same, but that's a given.

Edited by LionHarted, 28 August 2006 - 05:46 PM.

[Fyxe]

You can't just discount all side quests as easter eggs. Just because you can't say IF they happen doesn't mean they DON'T happen. For instance, in ALttP Link can finish the game without the Red Shield *or* the Mirror Shield, only getting Heart Containers from bosses, not collecting the Bombos Medallion or other items or tempering the Master Sword at all. Does this mean they're all 'easter eggs' and therefore uncanon? No.

Your definition is biased and limited.