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Translation of Japanese Game Texts


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#841 Arturo

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 11:42 AM

My computer consistently forgets the passwords for my old account and oftentimes wouldn't log me in even when it did remember them; after having to request getting it changed about four or five times (to one of those ridiculous 15-character or something passwords) only to have it lock me out the email account I signed up with now will no longer work, so I couldn't access the boards AT ALL as a user. I haven't encountered this problem with the new account.

I'll talk about this to an admin... let's see if there's a way to resolve it ^^

"Now that Ganon has been revived" (from the "seal of the gods") he once again poses a threat.

If the KoRL is talking about the present threat, his reference to a seal that ceased to matter a long time ago doesn't make sense.

It does make sense if Link doesn't know the seal ceased to matter. I mean, the KORL doesn't trust Link at the begginnng of the game (he doesn't tell him his true identiti, for example) so he won't tell him anything he doesn't already know. And since Link ONLY knows about the Sages' Seal, it would be very unlikely for him to speak about the other seals.

He's talking about Ganon's present escape and how it has allowed him to once again threaten the world. Furthermore, he references the "seal of the gods," and the seal Link knows about was never in any way connected to the gods.

The Sages' Seal IS connected to the goddesses. Firstly, because they ultimately casted it on Ganondorf in OoT:

Ancient Creators of Hyrule!
Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!!

And secondly, because the legend Link knows says nothing about sages, and because the KORL says a minute before claiming the seal's broken:

...He who obtained the power of the gods,
attempted to cover the land in darkness,
and was ultimately sealed away by the
very power he hoped to command.

And this is very clearly a depiction of OoT (he doesn't say there were centuries between obtaining the Triforce and attempting to cover the land in darkness and being sealed) And it also reminds me of...

Ganondorf...pitiful man...
Without a strong, righteous mind, he could not control the power of the gods...and...


Also, doesn't the fact that he clarifies that Ganondorf is the same one from the legends (the Ganondorf Link has heard of, as some would have it) also somewhat show that the seal he talks about is different. If he's talking about the seal Link already knows, there would be no need to clarify the identity of the villain in relation to the legends, would there?

.... why?

So you are saying, that if he was talking about the same seal, there would be no need of saying that he'sthe same Ganondorf as the one from the legends? Where did you got this from?

You are truly desperate to find evidence for your "theory"

The game says he was revived before he targeted the sages.


The game says that about the Sage of Earth and the Sage of Wind. which have NOTHING to do with the Seven Sages. He only targeted those after being "revived" because he wanted the Master Sword to be powerless. If he was sealed, he would only care to break the seal. And plus, Fado and Laruto were never sacrificed, but MURDERED. There's a big difference between those two things.

#842 Duke Serkol

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 11:47 AM

"That sword is the Anti-Demon Sword that repels demons. However, it is also the annoying seal that was sealing my Mazoku."

Hah. Duke always complained about that "plot hole." Well, I am happy to say it is a plot hole no longer.

Yep, that is a great discovery! Excellent work :)

This explains how Ganondorf escaped the ?time freeze? ? likely he existed in the same way Link and the King did while the Kingdom was still frozen ? then it was only a matter of creating a portal and escaping to the surface.

I'm not sure how the new translations imply this (I mean, any more so than the the original translation by NoA), can you point it out?

#843 CID Farwin

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 12:11 PM

Er... you make it seem like there's an extra Triforce of Courage around. There's just one complete set of Triforce for each timeline. It probably split because he wasn't allowed to take it back with him, because he was going to get the Child Timeline's ToC.

No, I'm not saying there's an extra Triforce. The point of what I'm saying is that it was literally the timeline split that splits the Triforce to 8 pieces, not Zelda, Link, or the King (all of which were theories) What may give you that impression is that I think that the timeline didn't split right when Zelda sent Link back, but rather when he changed history by closing the Door of Time, tipping everyone off about Ganondorf, and/or leaving for Termina. (unless, of course, Zelda sent him back to an earlier time than he usually goes back to, which would be enough by itself to change history)

Or his minions managed to kill them before time froze.

Eyah, see, this would be what I'm talking about with this stuff. The Japanese slaps me across the face for some reason. I read the English version to mean what I said before...

Back to what I was saying in my last post: no Master Sword, no Triforce, no Hero. Yeah, Hyrule was screwed from the second Zelda sent Link away.

Anyone else love how this thread is like....validating every idea I've had little by little?

I love that, too. Even though I've been wrong on a couple things

The game says he was revived before he targeted the sages.

Master Sword sages are the only ones specified.

He's the Hero of Time reborn because he's the Hero of Time Link, but not the hero from the legend who saved Hyrule in the past. They clearly expected the Hero of Time to travel through time and save them again.

With that one minor nitpick change, I agree here.

And TWW Link can be of the same bloodline as the Hero of Time without being his direct descendant. (like the OoT Link being his great, great, great, great, uncle or something.) You don't need to be someone's literal descendant to be related to them. For instance, I'm related to the guy who invented Television. He's my Grandpa's cousin.

#844 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 12:27 PM

I'll talk about this to an admin... let's see if there's a way to resolve it ^^


That works as well. ^_^

It does make sense if Link doesn't know the seal ceased to matter. I mean, the KORL doesn't trust Link at the begginnng of the game (he doesn't tell him his true identiti, for example) so he won't tell him anything he doesn't already know. And since Link ONLY knows about the Sages' Seal, it would be very unlikely for him to speak about the other seals.


As others have already noted, it also seems fishy that he would describe Ganondorf and the legends Link already knows in detail and then clarify that this is the guy from the legends Link already knows.

The Sages' Seal IS connected to the goddesses. Firstly, because they ultimately casted it on Ganondorf in OoT:

Ancient Creators of Hyrule!
Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!!


In the first place, "Ancient Creators of Hyrule" need not necessarily refer to the gods. TP, for instance, says that the Hylians were thought to have created Hyrule. The Japanese says "pantheon of ancient times" which could easily refer to the sages or the gods. Since Zelda relates to us earlier that the sages will open the sealed door and the line you cite mimics Zelda's description perfectly, I'd say it's referring to the sages.

And secondly, because the legend Link knows says nothing about sages, and because the KORL says a minute before claiming the seal's broken:

...He who obtained the power of the gods,
attempted to cover the land in darkness,
and was ultimately sealed away by the
very power he hoped to command.

And this is very clearly a depiction of OoT (he doesn't say there were centuries between obtaining the Triforce and attempting to cover the land in darkness and being sealed) And it also reminds me of...

Ganondorf...pitiful man...
Without a strong, righteous mind, he could not control the power of the gods...and...


Clearly we disagree then. I understand your interpretation, however.

I simply see no need for the King to describe the "seal of the gods" and then in the same dialogue tell Link that Ganondorf is the same one from the seal Link already knows if the seal of the gods is that seal. That's all. I've always seen it this way; the "seal of the gods" is the seal the gods cast on Hyrule, in my opinion, not the sages' seal.

.... why?

So you are saying, that if he was talking about the same seal, there would be no need of saying that he'sthe same Ganondorf as the one from the legends? Where did you got this from?

You are truly desperate to find evidence for your "theory"


Not so.

You're saying this:
The King muses that the seal of the Hero of Time is broken. He then describes to Link in detail the deeds of Ganondorf from that legend. He then tells Link that Ganondorf is the person from those legends.

I'm saying this:
The King muses that the seal that was supposed to keep Ganon from threatening the Great Sea is broken. He then describes to Link in detail the deeds of Ganondorf last time he threatened Hyrule. He then tells Link that Ganondorf is the same person from the Hero of Time legends.

I've always said this. The new translation doesn't really change anything besides adding more specific detail to Ganondorf's prior deeds.

The game says that about the Sage of Earth and the Sage of Wind. which have NOTHING to do with the Seven Sages. He only targeted those after being "revived" because he wanted the Master Sword to be powerless. If he was sealed, he would only care to break the seal. And plus, Fado and Laruto were never sacrificed, but MURDERED. There's a big difference between those two things.


1) Well, it depends. The two TWW sages are said to have infused the blade with the gods' power, then in TP the ancient sages, the predecessors of the OoT sages, are said to have been the ones who forged it. While these two roles (infusing the blade and forging it) need not involve the same individuals, the Master Sword's power seems to originate with the greater pantheon of sages and not only with these two. These two seem to be the ones who are involved in maintaining its power.

2) Fado and Laruto were not sacrificed, this is true. But they would have to have been for Ganondorf to break the seal on the Sacred Realm. That is what I am saying.

Master Sword sages are the only ones specified.


TP includes the ancient sages, predecessors of the OoT sages who cast the Sacred Realm seal, in the creation of the Master Sword. These two still hold the exclusive role of maintaining the Master Sword's power, but as the creation of the blade of evil's bane has been extended to all of the original sages I deduce that they are counted among the traditional seven sages.

I've held this position since long before these translations.

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 13 September 2008 - 12:28 PM.


#845 Hero of Legend

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 01:00 PM

But he's still unrelated to the legend. He's still just metaphorically the HoT reborn. The supposedly opened possibility of any connection between them is irrelevant; the HoT has no presence on the Adult Timeline, and TWW Link is not connected to him. And what the KoRL says at least is still proof enough that he isn't the "Hero of Time reborn", because then he wouldn't have told Jabun otherwise.

Arguing semantics, are we? Bah, I already told you, that's not what the King says at all. He has no way of knowing about Link's ancestry or divine purpose, he is merely confirming to Jabun that the boy he brought is not the HoT, whom they originally expected him to find. In fact, nothing - nothing - in the game supports what you are now saying. You only claim that because you think that due to the HoT being sent back at the end of OoT, his soul can no longer exist within that timeline. And I ask you, why is that? Aren?t you the one who (much like myself) says that we're supposed to care about the intent of the developers, not our own preconceived assumptions? So, what makes you think they care about that - or do you claim to know how souls and reincarnation operates in the Zelda world, or what the goddesses might and might not be able to do? Certainly, they wouldn't send the KoRL to search for the Hero of Time if there was no Hero to find. And again I affirm that there is nothing within TWW that indicates that Link is in any way different from the HoT, besides the fact that he is not the HoT himself. On the contrary, the game employs a common plot progression where the truth about the Hero's identity is withheld until the end, when it is revealed that he is in fact the Hero of Time reborn.

But no, you say, this information must be false! The villain cannot be right, he is contradicting what the good guy said earlier!

Yeah, right. Other than the fact that this is a common narrative technique, I have to wonder, do you realize just what you are saying? You're effectively denying the possibility that Darth Vader is Luke's father because the 'good and wise' Obi-Wan Kenobi denied it before Vader told Luke the truth! The only difference here is that the King did not lie, he simply did not know at that point.

There's really no reasonable excuse against Ganondorf's revelation, other than the argument that the writers really didn't know what the fuck they were doing. It's either that the game lies to the player for no reason, that it is inconsistent with the split timeline, or that the writers simply did not see the split as a problem. Everything I've seen so far points to the latter, including the minor differences between the Japanese and NoA versions.

Of course, this is all assuming there were no important changes made to Ganondorf's speech at the end, though at this point I strongly doubt it. Like I said, even the King implies that Link is related to the hero of the legend, because the fact that the ToC dwells within him links him directly to the HoT.

I'm not sure how the new translations imply this (I mean, any more so than the the original translation by NoA), can you point it out?

Well, in the NoA version he says the seal was cast on "me and my magic" but in the Japanese version it only affected his demons. Whether Ganondorf was originally sealed with them or not, this means he was probably free to move about much like Link and the King, who were also unaffected by the seal, and because he had access to his full power (unlike what NoA tells us) it is no longer a mystery how he was able to create a portal to the surface and establish a new powerbase on the Great Sea.

Don?t you agree?

Edited by Hero of Legend, 13 September 2008 - 01:23 PM.


#846 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 01:32 PM

If the Sages' bloodline doesn't have to be literal, then surely the same can be said for the hero. Personally, I think ALTTP Link's connection to the Knights of Hyrule has been the only distinct bloodline relation.


Not necessarily. The Sages have the implication of being Arahitogami, so they form a branch of "descendants" by passing on spiritual powers. Link can't exactly replicate this.

There are two seals on Hyrule: the flood itself and the Master Sword. Clearly Ganon circumvented at least one, probably both because Ganondorf is 1) not in Hyrule; 2) managed to avoid the Master Sword one by stealing its power.


1) Well obviously he was in Hyrule when the seal was cast. 2) He didn't exactly "steal" the power, technically speaking, he kinda killed it outright.

I keep referring to the TWW seals (the one broken that the King refers to is a TWW seal; what other seal would he refer to at that time?) and then am countered with "LOL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAGES' SEAL". Stop pretending that makes ME an idiot.

The SR seal could not have been broken (coming from the not-really-an-assumption position that OoT is the IW and the seals are the same) because it requires the sages' power to be broken, and it is apparent that Ganon was revived from the Sacred Realm before he attacked the sages. You have to provide evidence that the seal was broken. You keep saying you have, but no one talks about the seal from OoT in TWW.


Have you read the translation at all?

The bolded assumption is actually rather illogical.


The Hero of Time has no family, that's why he was raised by a god damned tree.

Did it ever occur to you that he might be wrong?
He's clearly out of the loop about a lot of things, like the Master Sword losing its power, Link being able to harness the Triforce of Courage, etc.


Souls can reincarnated into parallel histories now? Good to know.

And, as for how to break the seal, he could do it in the ALttP way... murdering the descendants from the Seven Sages.


Right, or he could've found another way around it, just like we were shown that there's multiple ways to revive Ganon from the dead.

My computer consistently forgets the passwords for my old account and oftentimes wouldn't log me in even when it did remember them; after having to request getting it changed about four or five times (to one of those ridiculous 15-character or something passwords) only to have it lock me out the email account I signed up with now will no longer work, so I couldn't access the boards AT ALL as a user. I haven't encountered this problem with the new account.


Write your passwords down, or use the "I forgot my password" feature.

"Now that Ganon has been revived" (from the "seal of the gods") he once again poses a threat.

If the KoRL is talking about the present threat, his reference to a seal that ceased to matter a long time ago doesn't make sense. He's talking about Ganon's present escape and how it has allowed him to once again threaten the world. Furthermore, he references the "seal of the gods," and the seal Link knows about was never in any way connected to the gods.

Also, doesn't the fact that he clarifies that Ganondorf is the same one from the legends (the Ganondorf Link has heard of, as some would have it) also somewhat show that the seal he talks about is different. If he's talking about the seal Link already knows, there would be no need to clarify the identity of the villain in relation to the legends, would there?


....You have absolutely no grasp on context, do you?

No, I'm not saying there's an extra Triforce. The point of what I'm saying is that it was literally the timeline split that splits the Triforce to 8 pieces, not Zelda, Link, or the King (all of which were theories) What may give you that impression is that I think that the timeline didn't split right when Zelda sent Link back, but rather when he changed history by closing the Door of Time, tipping everyone off about Ganondorf, and/or leaving for Termina. (unless, of course, Zelda sent him back to an earlier time than he usually goes back to, which would be enough by itself to change history)


So where would the ToC of the Adult Timeline have been inbetween Link being sent back and the splitting of the timeline? The idea I presented is much simpler.

As others have already noted, it also seems fishy that he would describe Ganondorf and the legends Link already knows in detail and then clarify that this is the guy from the legends Link already knows.


Elaboration purposes.

In the first place, "Ancient Creators of Hyrule" need not necessarily refer to the gods. TP, for instance, says that the Hylians were thought to have created Hyrule. The Japanese says "pantheon of ancient times" which could easily refer to the sages or the gods. Since Zelda relates to us earlier that the sages will open the sealed door and the line you cite mimics Zelda's description perfectly, I'd say it's referring to the sages.


Are you fucking kidding me? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Bah, I already told you, that's not what the King says. In fact, nothing - nothing - in the game supports what you are now saying. You only claim that because you think that due to the HoT being sent back at the end of OoT, his soul can no longer exist within that timeline. And I ask you, why is that?


Well, now that he's in the Child Timeline, his soul will reincarnate along there. He can't be in two bodies at once, now can he?

Certainly, if you ask me, they wouldn't send the KoRL to search for the Hero of Time if there was no Hero to find.


I highly doubt the Goddesses came down and said "rofl find the Hero of Time." He probably assumed that on his own. We know from Zelda's accounts that the goddesses speak in dreams, prophecy, and vague symbolic imagery.

On the contrary, the game employs a common plot progression where the truth about the Hero's identity is withheld until the end, when it is revealed that he is in fact the Hero of Time reborn.

But no, you say, this information must be false! The villain cannot be right, he is contradicting what the good guy said earlier!

Yeah, right. Other than the fact that this is a common narrative technique, I have do to wonder, do you realize what you are saying? You're effectively denying the possibility that Darth Vader is Luke's father because the 'good and wise' Obi-Wan Kenobi denied it before Vader told Luke the truth!


That's hardly a valid comparison, considering Ganondorf said this on his OWN assumptions because of his inability to let go, and decided that this kid was the HoT just because he kicked a monster's ass. Nevermind that Letting go of the past is the biggest theme of the game. Nevermind that TWW Link had to "earn" his destiny. Nevermind that him NOT being the reincarnation of the Hero of Time is probably what allowed him to break the karmic Zarathustra the characters were all stuck in.

There's really no reasonable excuse against Ganondorf's revelation, other than the argument that the writers really didn't know what the fuck they were doing. It's either that the game lies to the player for no reason, that it is inconsistent with the split timeline, or that the writers simply did not see the split as a problem. Everything I've seen so far points to the latter, including the minor differences between the Japanese and NoA versions.


Or that Ganondorf has become so obsessed with returning to how things were that he LOST HIS GRIP ON REALITY.

Honestly, there's more to these characters than being exposition mouthpieces.

#847 Hero of Legend

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 01:57 PM

Well, now that he's in the Child Timeline, his soul will reincarnate along there. He can't be in two bodies at once, now can he?

I don't know, you tell me? I don't make suppositions about a part of fictional mythology that I know little about, created by a company whose stated intent it is to not let past titles dictate their future offerings. Personally however, I happen to think it makes sense if Link's soul was cloned along with everyone else - helps keep the balance of the universe and all that.

I highly doubt the Goddesses came down and said "rofl find the Hero of Time." He probably assumed that on his own. We know from Zelda's accounts that the goddesses speak in dreams, prophecy, and vague symbolic imagery.

The Deku Tree says the gods sent the KoRL commanded him to search for the HoT - that's why he hasn't passed on to the afterlife.

That's hardly a valid comparison, considering Ganondorf said this on his OWN assumptions because of his inability to let go, and decided that this kid was the HoT just because he kicked a monster's ass.

So the writers just lied? No, that's not how storytelling works. All else being equal, the final say is the one that matters.

And yeah, that's all Link did. Never mind the fact that he can wield the Master Sword with the power to banish evil (which only the Hero can do) and that he has the ToC within him, which was granted to the HoT by the gods. Of course, you knew all this but decided to act like an pretentious ass anyway. That's real mature of you, I gotta say.

Nevermind that Letting go of the past is the biggest theme of the game.

At the END of the game, yes.

Nevermind that TWW Link had to "earn" his destiny.

I see this idea come up a lot, but I have never seen a valid justification for it. Please, do prove me wrong.

Nevermind that him NOT being the reincarnation of the Hero of Time is probably what allowed him to break the karmic Zarathustra the characters were all stuck in.

No, that was the King's wish. You know, "and let our destinies finally be fulfilled"? Yeah, that includes Link too.

Or that Ganondorf has become so obsessed with returning to how things were that he LOST HIS GRIP ON REALITY.

Honestly, there's more to these characters than being exposition mouthpieces.

Yeah, because you aren't taking the King's exposition way out of proportion just to 'prove' that Ganondorf is an unreliable source of information? Let me explain it to you; the King didn't mean to say Ganondorf was insane (he was just like him). He didn't even say Ganondorf was caught in the past - it was Hyrule (not the HoT, not anything else) that he wanted. Both he and the King were part of Hyrule, and that's why neither of them could exist in the new world. Meanwhile, Link and Zelda, though they carry their ancestors legacy, are not trapped in the same way. That?s what the ending says.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 13 September 2008 - 02:40 PM.


#848 Raien

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 02:16 PM

If I remember rightly, Ganondorf said "Surely you are the Hero of Time reborn." in the English translation. The word "surely" indicates uncertaincy; it indicates that Ganondorf does not really know TWW Link's connection to the Hero of Time. And given that the King of Hyrule doesn't really understand that connection either, I think it's safe to say it remains a mystery. Well, that is unless jacensolo provides a translation that makes it certain.

Also, is there any real need to argue so furiously over TWW Link's connection to the Hero of Time? It can't be asserted to have any large impact on the timeline, so I don't see why people here can't see it as an aside interest.

#849 Showsni

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 02:37 PM

Surely indicates uncertainty? Do you know what surely means?

If there's a true timeline split, you'd expect everyone to have a soul on both sides. Anyway, since I subscribe to the travelling in spirit theory, Link remains in both halves of any split.

The HoT might have family, for all we know.


#850 Hero of Legend

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 02:38 PM

You're right Raian, I never intended for this to escalate (again) into a full blown debate. I've said my piece. So, unless someone has anything NEW to add that we all haven't heard a billion times already, I'm done with this. It just pisses me off when people act authoritarian about stuff like this where there is apparent contradictory information that requres personal interpretation to work properly.

And I don't really know why people care so much. For me, it's about truth and falsehood. I can see why TWW having a 'fresh' Link would make sense, but I also think there is no real reason to believe this, and an overwhelming amount of evidence on the contrary.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 13 September 2008 - 02:44 PM.


#851 jacensolo06

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 02:42 PM

Some more translations, including Ganondorf's Hero of Time reborn quote.


Link being named the Hero of Wind upon collecting the entire Triforce of Courage:

よし、リンク 集めたトライフォースを神にお見せするのだ
Okay, Link. Show the Triforce you have assembled to the gods.

Well done, Link. You must show the Triforce piece you have assembled to the gods.

おお、なんということだ トライフォースが宿るとは・・・・
Oh, what a thing. The Triforce is dwelling within you?

Oh! What is this? There, on your hand the Triforce piece now dwells within you!

それは、勇気のトライフォースが お前を、真の勇者であると認めた証
The Triforce of Courage dwelling within you is proof that you are a true hero.

It is the Triforce of Courage proof that you are indeed the true hero.

風をあやつり、海を駆け 冒険の末に、神の力を宿したお前は さしずめ、 風の勇者というところか・・・
You manipulate the wind, race across the sea, and, at the end of your adventure, the power of the gods dwells within you. In the end, you are the Hero of Wind?

You have controlled the wind and crossed the seas, and here, near the end of your quest, the power of the gods has been bestowed upon you... Surely, from this moment on, you shall be known as the Hero of Winds...

風の勇者 リンクよ!
Link, Hero of Wind!

Link! Hero of Winds!

さあ、ゆくぞ! ハイラルへ そして、ゼルダのもとへ!
Now, go! To Hyrule and to Zelda!

Go forth! To Hyrule! To Zelda's side!



The King of Red Lions mentioning Ganon's Tower:

ガノン城は 昔・・・ 勇猛果敢な ハイラルの騎士団でさえ 落とせなかった 難攻不落の城だ ガノンの幻影に惑わされぬよう 感覚を研ぎ澄ますのだ
Ganon Castle? It is an impregnable castle from long ago that not even the courageous knights of Hyrule could fell. Don?t let Ganon?s illusions lead you astray. Sharpen your senses.

Long ago, Ganon's Tower was an impenetrable fortress that not even the daring and dauntless Knights of Hyrule could hope to assail. You must sharpen your senses so as not to fall victim to Ganon's illusions.



Ganondorf before the Puppet Ganon battle:

寝入ったか
Have you fallen asleep?

Do you sleep still?

待て!
Wait!

Wait!

そう、急くな・・・
That?s right, don?t be so hasty?

Do not be so hasty, boy...

この娘のユメが見える・・・ 海・・・ 海・・・ 海・・・ 海・・・ 見渡す限りの海
I can see this girls dreams?ocean?ocean?ocean?ocean?ocean as far as the eye can see.

I can see this girl's dreams... Oceans... Oceans... Oceans... Oceans... Oceans as far as the eye can see.

魚も捕れず、泳ぐこともままならぬ海・・・
A sea where you can?t catch any fish or have any control while swimming?

They are vast seas... None can swim across them... They yield no fish to catch...

ハイラル王は、何と言った? 神が、ハイラルを封印したと?
What did King Hyrule say? That the gods sealed Hyrule?

What did the King of Hyrule say? ...That the gods sealed Hyrule away?

再びハイラルを興す民を残したと?
That they saved people who would revive Hyrule?

And they left behind people who would one day awaken Hyrule?!

笑止なり・・・ 漂う木の葉のような、数えるばかりの島で 何ができる?
How laughable? You?re like floating leaves. What can you do with so few islands?

How ridiculous... So many pathetic creatures, scattered across a handful of islands, drifting on this sea like fallen leaves on a forgotten pool... What can they possibly hope to achieve?

わからぬのか? お前たちは・・・
Do you not understand? You all?

Don't you see? All of you...

神に滅ぼされたのだ!!
Were destroyed by your gods!!

Your gods destroyed you!

お前を待っていた お前が、ワシの前に出るにふさわしい・・・ そう、勇者となって現れるのをな
I?ve been waiting for you. It?s appropriate for you to appear before me? Yes, for one to appear as the hero.

I have been waiting for you, boy. For one like you... Yes... For the hero.

ワシの期待を、裏切らんでくれよ
Do not betray my expectations.

Do not betray my expectations.



And Ganondorf after the Puppet Ganon battle:

いいぞ、 それでこそ 時の勇者の生まれかわり・・・
Yes, as I expected of the reincarnation of the Hero of Time?

Yes, surely you are the Hero of Time, reborn...

時は満ちたということか・・・ いいだろう・・・上がって来い
I guess the time has come? Fine? Come before me.

Your time has come... Come now... Stand before me!



#852 Raien

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 02:48 PM

Wow, some nice things here.

1) I have a question to jacensolo. The "courageous knights of Hyrule"; are they referred to as a clan?

2) Ganondorf is confident that Link is a reincarnation of the Hero of Time, so that probably means Link is the spiritual successor.

3) The people who will revive Hyrule were expected to do so on the Great Sea.

Edited by Raian, 13 September 2008 - 02:49 PM.


#853 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 02:49 PM

The Deku Tree says the gods sent the KoRL commanded him to search for the HoT - that's why he hasn't passed on to the afterlife.


Or his heir. I really doubt the Goddesses sent KoRL to find someone THEY KNEW wasn't gonna be there, so it's more likely they just misinterpreted the goddess's intent of "Find a hero" as "Find TEH HoT!"

So the writers just lied? No, that's not how storytelling works. All else being equal, the final say is the one that matters.


You don't understand storytelling if you think the writers are liars for making a character say an erroneous statement.

And yeah, that's all Link did. Never mind the fact that he can wield the Master Sword with the power to banish evil (which only the Hero can do) and that he has the ToC within him, which was granted to the HoT by the gods. Of course, you knew all this but decided to act like an pretentious ass anyway. That's real mature of you, I gotta say.


He had to EARN the right to weild the Master Sword (and we know heroes besides Link can use it if they're worthy. Lol Ancient Tablets), and the ToC will imbue itself to anyone who is worthy of it, such as the Hero of Winds.

At the END of the game, yes.


The whole game, really, but more sublty placed. Such as the Deku Tree realizing he's not the Hero of Time, but learning to put faith in him anyway.

I see this idea come up a lot, but I have never seen a valid justification for it. Please, do prove me wrong.


Well aside from possible Developer Intent (but let's not get into that can of worms, good lord), There's still the point throughout the entire game that he just came into the adventure upon happenstance, got involved on his own instead of being summoned by fate, etc.

No, that was the King's wish. You know, "and let our destinies finally be fulfilled"? Yeah, that includes Link too.


That's not quite what I was talking about.

Yeah, because you aren't taking the King's exposition way out of proportion just to 'prove' that Ganondorf is an unreliable source of information?


The King, the Deku Tree, the Valoo, Jabun, and multiple other characters across the entire game > One guy's line based on emotional fallacy.

He didn't even say Ganondorf was caught in the past


I beg to differ. Even if the King said no such thing, it's obvious that Ganondorf is, indeed, stuck in the past. It's an Aesop. One the King eventually understood.

#854 jacensolo06

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 03:08 PM

1) I have a question to jacensolo. The "courageous knights of Hyrule"; are they referred to as a clan?


They are referred to as 騎士団 which means "body/group/company of knights". It's the exact same term as the one used in the ALttP back story.

#855 Hero of Legend

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 03:41 PM

Okay, I'll explain my stance one final time.

Or his heir. I really doubt the Goddesses sent KoRL to find someone THEY KNEW wasn't gonna be there, so it's more likely they just misinterpreted the goddess's intent of "Find a hero" as "Find TEH HoT!"

Yeah, begging the question sure helps when you want to change the explicit meaning of a statement. There is no evidence that there could not be a reincarnated HoT for the King to find in this statement, so you can't use it as a basis to argue that the goddesses must have meant something different.

One (really, the only) valid interpretation is the opposite; that this indicates that the HoT WAS reincarnated.

You don't understand storytelling if you think the writers are liars for making a character say an erroneous statement.

Yes, but then they also have to inform the player that the statement was erroneous. Nothing in TWW denies the possibility that Link is the reincarnated HoT, and therefore they have failed to do that. I can only assume that means that Ganondorf is not errorenous.

He had to EARN the right to weild the Master Sword

Just like every other Link. For example, TP Link had to find his way through the Sacred Grove and solve the guardians puzzle. OoT Link had to prove his worthiness by collecting the sacred stones and Ocarina, and pulling the sword from the pedestal. TWW Link's quest is no different in the least (in fact, he was called the 'chosen one' by Gohdan before even besting him).

(and we know heroes besides Link can use it if they're worthy. Lol Ancient Tablets)

Not canon and you know it. The main games have never gone back on the fact that the chosen Hero is the only one who can use the swords power, which is shown in the sacred radiance.

and the ToC will imbue itself to anyone who is worthy of it, such as the Hero of Winds.

So you assume, but history has shown only the HoT and his descendants in both timelines actually abide have it inside them. It certainly does not indicate anything but a connection.

The whole game, really, but more sublty placed. Such as the Deku Tree realizing he's not the Hero of Time, but learning to put faith in him anyway.

That has nothing to do with letting go of the past.

Well aside from possible Developer Intent (but let's not get into that can of worms, good lord), There's still the point throughout the entire game that he just came into the adventure upon happenstance, got involved on his own instead of being summoned by fate, etc.

And where is this said? I also dissagree about Link getting involved by mere chance - TWW is quite consistent with other games in that is Zelda who acts as the (main) cataclyst of Link's adventure. So it has been in almost every game since the original LoZ.

That's not quite what I was talking about.

Uh, okay?

The King, the Deku Tree, the Valoo, Jabun, and multiple other characters across the entire game > One guy's line based on emotional fallacy.

Wrong and wrong. None of the characters of TWW deny that Link could be the HoT reborn. He is not the "Hero of Time" to them because they expected the HoT to come to their aid by means of time travel. However, they all accept as the Hero once they witness his prowess. Valoo directly names him a Hero, as does the Deku Tree and the King. It's not them against Ganondorf, it's simply Ganondorf. And speaking of Ganondorf, you still know squat about his emotions so please don't waste everyone time with that argument again.

I beg to differ. Even if the King said no such thing, it's obvious that Ganondorf is, indeed, stuck in the past. It's an Aesop. One the King eventually understood.

Indirectly, yes, but again it's only related to Hyrule. It still doesn?t mean what you want it to mean, which is that Ganondorf sees HoTs everywhere. Which brings us back to the fact that he had damn good reasons for considering Link the HoT, not even you could deny that.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 13 September 2008 - 03:56 PM.


#856 Raien

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 03:52 PM

They are referred to as 騎士団 which means "body/group/company of knights". It's the exact same term as the one used in the ALttP back story.


Thanks. That clears that up.

To MPS and Hero of Legend, perhaps no one in TWW was really sure of what to expect of the Hero of Time, given the unusual circumstances? If I remember correctly, the people of Hyrule expected the Hero of Time to appear when Ganon broke free from the Sacred Realm, so perhaps that hope carried over to the King of Hyrule and other deities on the Great Sea. Perhaps they didn't realise their hope would take the form of a new hero; that is until Ganondorf saw the Hero of Time's clothes and courage as the reincarnation of the Hero of Time.

Edited by Raian, 13 September 2008 - 03:53 PM.


#857 Hero of Legend

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 04:10 PM

To MPS and Hero of Legend, perhaps no one in TWW was really sure of what to expect of the Hero of Time, given the unusual circumstances? If I remember correctly, the people of Hyrule expected the Hero of Time to appear when Ganon broke free from the Sacred Realm, so perhaps that hope carried over to the King of Hyrule and other deities on the Great Sea. Perhaps they didn't realise their hope would take the form of a new hero; that is until Ganondorf saw the Hero of Time's clothes and courage as the reincarnation of the Hero of Time.

Yes, that much is obvious. Some people just think Ganondorf is wrong, even though what he says is not in (direct) opposition to the other characters...

Ah, we should have waited until jacen translated the ending. Ganondorf muses over the fact that he has once again gathered the three - himself, Link and Zelda - in Hyrule. He calls it fate... And the player knows that it IS the same as it was in OoT. Certainly, history did repeat itself. I think the implication to the player is obvious, but I'll leave it to everyone to decide for themselves. I'll just wait for the translation...

Edited by Hero of Legend, 13 September 2008 - 04:11 PM.


#858 Raien

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 04:39 PM

Actually, there is something else that I would like jacensolo to translate, if he would be kind enough to oblige. In Twilight Princess, Midna and Zant had a conversation before the battle with Zant began. This was the last important piece of dialogue in TP that Jumbie had to translate, but he never got round to it. If jacensolo could translate that conversation, then it would complete our understanding of that game.

Edited by Raian, 13 September 2008 - 04:39 PM.


#859 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 06:53 PM

Yeah, begging the question sure helps when you want to change the explicit meaning of a statement. There is no evidence that there could not be a reincarnated HoT for the King to find in this statement, so you can't use it as a basis to argue that the goddesses must have meant something different.

One (really, the only) valid interpretation is the opposite; that this indicates that the HoT WAS reincarnated.


Or, given precedent from previous examples of the Goddesses communicating, he was given his KoRL body, received a vague image of TWW Link, and assumed "lol Hero of Time!"

Yes, but then they also have to inform the player that the statement was erroneous. Nothing in TWW denies the possibility that Link is the reincarnated HoT, and therefore they have failed to do that. I can only assume that means that Ganondorf is not errorenous.


I figured the fact that he, as a villain was contradicted by both a protagonist and the natural narrative was blatant enough.

Just like every other Link. For example, TP Link had to find his way through the Sacred Grove and solve the guardians puzzle. OoT Link had to prove his worthiness by collecting the sacred stones and Ocarina, and pulling the sword from the pedestal. TWW Link's quest is no different in the least (in fact, he was called the 'chosen one' by Gohdan before even besting him).


Fair enough.

Not canon and you know it. The main games have never gone back on the fact that the chosen Hero is the only one who can use the swords power, which is shown in the sacred radiance.


Not canon? That is HIGHLY debatable. Besides, Princess Zelda has picked up the Master Sword on multiple occasions. I'm sure she could swing it if she had the muscle strength. OMG!

So you assume, but history has shown only the HoT and his descendants in both timelines actually abide have it inside them. It certainly does not indicate anything but a connection.


Descendants? We don't actually know if the HoT actually had any, but that's aside from the point. There's no rule that states that only a Link can have the Triforce of Courage. That's just how it comes up in narrative.

That has nothing to do with letting go of the past.


Yes it does. The Deku Tree was waiting for the Hero of Time, gave up on him, and accepted TWW Link in his seed, then decided to encourage the birth of a new and better world.

And where is this said? I also dissagree about Link getting involved by mere chance - TWW is quite consistent with other games in that is Zelda who acts as the (main) cataclyst of Link's adventure. So it has been in almost every game since the original LoZ.


The very start of those events was clearly a chance encounter. It's not like the voice of the Triforce asked Link to go with Tetra.

Wrong and wrong. None of the characters of TWW deny that Link could be the HoT reborn. He is not the "Hero of Time" to them because they expected the HoT to come to their aid by means of time travel. However, they all accept as the Hero once they witness his prowess.


Hero of Time != Hero. "He has no relation to the Hero of Time" "He is not the Hero of old." "You put your faith in this young man?" etc. etc. etc. They don't think he's the Hero of Time. Ganondorf is the only one who thinks so and he has no foundation for his assumption.

Indirectly, yes, but again it's only related to Hyrule. It still doesn?t mean what you want it to mean, which is that Ganondorf sees HoTs everywhere. Which brings us back to the fact that he had damn good reasons for considering Link the HoT, not even you could deny that.


Seeing HoTs everywhere? Whatever. Anyway, being a chosen hero is not the same as being the Hero of Time in any case, so the destiny thing is a tad moot.

Ah, we should have waited until jacen translated the ending. Ganondorf muses over the fact that he has once again gathered the three - himself, Link and Zelda - in Hyrule. He calls it fate... And the player knows that it IS the same as it was in OoT. Certainly, history did repeat itself. I think the implication to the player is obvious, but I'll leave it to everyone to decide for themselves. I'll just wait for the translation...


Indeed, Karmic Return. Which Link and Zelda broke forever.

#860 Duke Serkol

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 06:53 PM

Well, in the NoA version he says the seal was cast on "me and my magic" but in the Japanese version it only affected his demons. Whether Ganondorf was originally sealed with them or not, this means he was probably free to move about

Ah... I see now. Because having Hyrule sealed below the sea and having time frozen in the sealed off Hyrule are separate things, so if Ganondorf says this other seal (the one on time) was affecting his army that implies that it was not affecting him, that he was only trapped down there until he managed to open that portal.
Gotcha, this makes it even better a discovery! :)

#861 Impossible

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 07:03 PM

Actually, there is something else that I would like jacensolo to translate, if he would be kind enough to oblige. In Twilight Princess, Midna and Zant had a conversation before the battle with Zant began. This was the last important piece of dialogue in TP that Jumbie had to translate, but he never got round to it. If jacensolo could translate that conversation, then it would complete our understanding of that game.


Yeah, that's the one I asked for back on page 5, I think.

Also, WTF at this page. Arturo, can you please do what I suggested? We should really just have all the translations in one place to easily refer to.

The sages' seal has nothing to do with TWW, really, because it was broken hundreds of years earlier. The seal containing Ganon AFTER the flood is the seal on Hyrule. He's not still sealed in the SR, unless there was somehow another sages' seal before the flood that we don't know about. He just found a way to break through the seal keeping him in Hyrule.

I'm not bringing my entire explanation of the HoT reborn crap into this topic now, but you seem to completely misunderstand my point. It's not like what Ganondorf says is even phrased as a revelation. I've never even seen it that way, and it certainly doesn't have any response that would suggest this as a surprise. It's his perception that the Hero of Time has come back to haunt him - same clothes, same weapon, same piece of the Triforce. It's not a plot twist. Why would Ganondorf know something about Link that the KoRL doesn't? He knows shit all about Link, he's responding to what he SEES - which is, effectively, everything the Hero of Time was. But he's also his own hero, the Hero of Winds. It's Ganondorf who's obsessed with the past, anyway, so he's perceiving something from the past. And I'm not saying anything that isn't suggested by the games. I'm saying he's UNRELATED to the legend. The king says he's unrelated to the legend.

Personally however, I happen to think it makes sense if Link's soul was cloned along with everyone else - helps keep the balance of the universe and all that.


This is even less supported by the games. We don't know anything to suggest that about the nature of the timeline split.

I see this idea come up a lot, but I have never seen a valid justification for it. Please, do prove me wrong.


I assume he's referring to having to manually reform the Triforce of Courage, rather than being given it by fate.

Surely indicates uncertainty? Do you know what surely means?


Actually, it makes sense to say that, too, because it confirms what I said above. He's not revealing it: "Hey, you're the Hero of Time reborn, did you know that?" No, he's guessing it, he's deciding that based on what he sees: combine the clothes, sword, etc. with his living in the past. Which was established in the scene BEFORE that, actually. It was a response to the fact that Link had just kicked his creation's ass, in other words, Ganondorf's observation. It doesn't sound literal at all.

But given the translation (which I only just saw)... I have no idea. I'd be interested to see what Jumbie thinks of that. It's really hard to tell what the implications really are, because we're not familiar with Japanese expressions and phrasing. At least, reincarnated and reborn are effectively still the same thing, and Ganondorf is still making the observation for all the same reasons. He's not literally the Hero of Time, the KoRL says that, but he's the NEXT hero. And still, this:

You don't understand storytelling if you think the writers are liars for making a character say an erroneous statement.


It makes no sense for him to have knowledge like that anyway. What credibility does Ganondorf have? He doesn't know anything about Link, and he didn't give any proof. Although I don't think what Ganondorf said was ENTIRELY erroneous, just not literal - it's there to carry on the idea that he's recreating the past. Um, the three holders of the Triforce pieces; the Hero, Zelda and Ganondorf, united atop Ganon's Tower? Is that familiar to ANYONE else? It's kind of OoT. Anyway, I want to let this go for now, just though I'd add my thoughts, since I came a bit late.

I think so far, most of what Ganondorf says is the same. I always got the feeling there was already a lot of finesse in the English translation there.

Edited by Impossible, 13 September 2008 - 07:13 PM.


#862 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 08:11 PM

I've just now noticed the Hero of Time Reborn translation.

It's worth noting that the word for reincarnation, "umarekawari", is more used for figurative instead of literal rebirth, as it's most common usage is to refer to the re-emergence of traits and talents in spiritual successors, such as a painter making masterpieces on par with a great-grandfather's.

#863 jacensolo06

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 09:00 PM

It's worth noting that the word for reincarnation, "umarekawari", is more used for figurative instead of literal rebirth, as it's most common usage is to refer to the re-emergence of traits and talents in spiritual successors, such as a painter making masterpieces on par with a great-grandfather's.

Thanks for that, I'd never come across the term before and I knew it wasn't the normal word used for reincarnation, but "reincarnation" and "rebirth" were the only meanings I could find for it.


Now for the last passage from WW:

ワシの国は 砂漠の中にあった
My country was within a desert.

My country lay within a vast desert.

日のあるうちは灼熱の風 月がのぼれば荒涼の風・・・ 風が死を運んできた・・・
When the sun was in the sky, there was a scorching wind. When the moon ascended, a desolate wind… The wind brought death…

When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes. No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death.

ハイラルの大地に吹く風は、 死とは別のものを運んでくる
The wind that blew on the land of Hyrule brought something other than death.

But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brought something other than suffering and ruin.

ワシは、この風が欲しかったのかもしれぬ
I must have desired that wind.

I coveted that wind, I suppose.

因果としかいえぬな ここに・・こうして再び 紋章を持つ者が集うとは
It must be fate. Those who bear the crests have once again gathered here.

It can only be called fate. ...That here, I would again gather the three with the crests.

われ ふれそめし  ものの のぞみ かなえん・・・ 力、知恵、勇気 の紋章が集まるとき 神が降りるという
“The one who touches me will have his wish granted”… It is said that when the crests of power, wisdom, and courage are gathered, the gods will descend.

...That I should lay my hand on that which grants the wishes of the beholder... That when power, wisdom, and courage come together, the gods would have no choice but to come down...

神の力、すなわちトライフォースに 触れた者のいかなる望みもかなえる・・・
The one who touches the power of the gods, the Triforce, will have his any wish granted…

The power of the gods... The Triforce! He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted!

もはや、知恵の紋章は我がもの・・・
Already, the crest of wisdom is mine…

Already, the crest of wisdom is mine…

あとは・・・
All that’s left is…

All that remains...

案ずるな、殺しはせん
Do not worry. I won’t kill you.

Do not fear. I will not kill you...

お前の体に用があるだけだ
I just have need of what is in your body.

I merely have need of the power that dwells within you.

さあ! 我らの縁を、ここで終わりにしよう
Now! Let us end our fated bond.

Now! Let us put an end to that which binds us together!

神よ! 我が望みを聞け!!
Gods! Hear my desire!!

Gods! Hear that which I desire!

この地を再び日のもとにさらし!
Let this land once again be exposed to the sun!

Expose this land to the rays of the sun once more! Let them burn forth!

ハイラルを、我が手に!!
Put Hyrule in my hands!!

Give Hyrule to me!!!

触れたる者の いかなる望みをもかなえる・・・
The one who touches it will have his any wish granted…

He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted...

そう申したな、ガノンドロフ!
Isn’t that what you said, Ganondorf!

That is what you said, is it not, Ganondorf?

トライフォースの神々よ 我は望む!
Gods of the Triforce, this is my wish!

Gods of the Triforce! Hear that which I desire!

未来を! この子らに、希望ある 未来をあたえよ!
A future! Give these children a future full of hope!

Hope! I desire hope for these children! Give them a future!

過去の地ハイラルを消し去り この子らの未来に光明を!!
Erase Hyrule, the land of the past. Give these children a bright future!!

Wash away this ancient land of Hyrule! Let a ray of hope shine on the future of the world!!!

これで、我らの因縁も終わろう・・・ ガノンドロフよ、ハイラルと共に 沈むがよい!!!
Now, let our destiny come to an end… Ganondorf, sink with Hyrule!!!

And let our destinies finally be fulfilled... Ganondorf! May you drown with Hyrule!!!

バカげている・・・ お前たちの・・・未来だと?
How foolish… Your…future, did you say?

This is foolishness... A future...for you?

笑うんじゃないよ!いまいましいオヤジだね!
What are you laughing for! What an annoying old man!

What are you laughing at, Ganondorf?! You're insane!

リンク すまない! 寝坊しちまった!
Sorry, Link! I overslept!

Link! I'm sorry! I overslept!

さっ! こんなトコ さっさとオサラバして 帰ろう!! 私たちの 海へ!
Now! We must say farewell to this place and return!! To our ocean!

I think it's time for us to say good-bye to this place. We must return to the world above! Back to our ocean!

いいだろう・・・ 見せてもらおう
Fine… I’ll show you.

Very well, then... Allow me to show you...

お前たちの未来・・・ 希望とやらが・・・ どれ程のものか
Your future… and hope… I’ll show you how much you have.

Your future... Yes... Allow me to show you... Just what hope you have...

トライフォースに値するかをな!
And how much the Triforce is worth!

...See how much your precious Triforce is worth!

(Insert Ganondorf battle here.)

フ・・・フフ 風が・・・ 吹いて・・おる・・
Ha….ha ha. The wind is…blow…ing…

Ughnn... Heh heh... The wind.... It is blowing...

リンク!!
Link!!

Link!!!

我が子らよ・・・聞いてくれ 私は過去を悔い 過去と向き合って 生きてきた
My children… Please listen. I regret the past. I lived facing the past.

My children... Listen to me. I have lived regretting the past. And I have faced those regrets.

もう一度、やり直せれば・・・ ありし日の王国のことを 考えない日はなかった 私は、この地ハイラルに縛られていた
If only I could do it over again… There wasn’t a single day in which I didn’t think of the old kingdom. I was bound to this land of Hyrule.

If only I could do things over again... Not a day of my life has gone by without my thoughts turning to my kingdom of old. I have lived bound to Hyrule.

その意味では、 ガノンドロフと私は同じなのだ
This means that Ganondorf and I were the same.

In that sense, I was the same as Ganondorf.

だが・・・
But…

But you...

お前たちには、 前をむいて生きて欲しいのだ なにも無いかもしれない・・・ それでも、その先を見つめて 歩いて欲しいのだ
I want you two to live while facing forward. There might not be anything there… But I want you to look forward and walk forward.

I want you to live for the future. There may be nothing left for you... But despite that, you must look forward and walk a path of hope, trusting that it will sustain you when darkness comes.

さらばだ・・・ 私たち大人は、お前たちに こんな世界しか残すことができなかった
Farewell… us adults were only able to leave you this world.

Farewell... This is the only world that your ancestors were able to leave you.

ゆるしておくれ
Please forgive us.

Please...forgive us.

あ、あのさ! 一緒に、一緒にさがせばいいんだよ!
H-hey! You… you could come search with us!

W-Wait! You could... You could come with us!

そうだよ! 船はあるんだ! きっと見つかるさ! ハイラルになる大地がさ!
That’s it! We have a ship! We’d definitely find it! We’d find land that could become Hyrule!

Yes, of course... We have a ship! We can find it. We WILL find it! The land that will be the next Hyrule!

だから・・・
So…

So…

・・・・・・ ああ、だが、そこは、 ハイラルではない
……Yes, but that wouldn’t be Hyrule.

...Ah, but child... That land will not be Hyrule.

お前たちの国だ!!
It would be your land!!

It will be YOUR land!

我、種子を放てり・・・
I have scattered the seeds…

I have scattered the seeds of the future...


When Ganondorf says “The one who touches me will have his wish granted." I'm only assuming he's quoting something. In the Japanese that sentence is entirely in hiragana, no kanji. Also the speech style is completely different than is normal for Ganondorf. That sentence uses "ware" for I. Ganondorf uses "washi" throughout this entire game. Also, "ware" can be used to indicate that something is from ancient times (like thee and thou in English). This makes me think he's quoting something, but I really can't be sure. Also, because there is no particle after "ware", it could either mean "The one who touches me will have his wish granted" or "I will grant the wish of the one who touches [the Triforce]."

I'll translate the Zant quotes from TP next.

Edited by jacensolo06, 13 September 2008 - 09:32 PM.


#864 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 09:15 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I KNEW GANONDORF WAS BOUND BY THE PAST HAHAHAHAHAHAHA EAT IT.

#865 Impossible

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 09:18 PM

Awesome, I really love how clear it is. The meaning, of course, is identical - if anything, it's stronger and even clearer. I'll comment more on it later. Thanks so much for doing all this, it's good to finally get those questions dealt with.

But it's missing the last line, "I have scattered the seeds of the future".

#866 jacensolo06

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Posted 13 September 2008 - 09:31 PM

But it's missing the last line, "I have scattered the seeds of the future".


I don't know how I forgot about that line. It's in a completely different part of the text dump for some reason.
I'll edit it into my last post.

#867 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 12:46 AM

so "the future" was made up. Well, the meaning was obviously there.

#868 Impossible

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 04:04 AM

This may be a stupid question, but was OoT's ending ever translated? That seems like it would be really obvious and significant to us, but I can't recall it coming up...

...And this is EXACTLY why we need a topic just for translations, so I can easily find those relating to OoT. I'm trying to think of the games we don't have many translations for that we still need, now that TP and TWW are mainly done. Obviously, OoT should top the list, given that it was one of Owsen's last works.

Edited by Impossible, 14 September 2008 - 04:09 AM.


#869 Raien

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:12 AM

When Ganondorf says “The one who touches me will have his wish granted." I'm only assuming he's quoting something. In the Japanese that sentence is entirely in hiragana, no kanji. Also the speech style is completely different than is normal for Ganondorf. That sentence uses "ware" for I. Ganondorf uses "washi" throughout this entire game. Also, "ware" can be used to indicate that something is from ancient times (like thee and thou in English). This makes me think he's quoting something, but I really can't be sure. Also, because there is no particle after "ware", it could either mean "The one who touches me will have his wish granted" or "I will grant the wish of the one who touches [the Triforce]."


Perhaps Ganondorf is quoting the Triforce, as depicted in ALTTP's original manual? "Whatever you desire, I shall desire it as well."

I'll translate the Zant quotes from TP next.


Thanks very much.

This may be a stupid question, but was OoT's ending ever translated? That seems like it would be really obvious and significant to us, but I can't recall it coming up...


I've looked for it in my little topic of Zelda quotes (not up to date, mind you) and the OoT section ends with the legend of the Triforce. I think Jumbie hasn't translated it.

Edited by Raian, 14 September 2008 - 05:19 AM.


#870 Hero of Legend

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:20 AM

Okay guys, I'll explain myself (again) one last time. I we don't have anything to say other than "I think you're wrong" then we could just as well let this go. I know I will.

I figured the fact that he, as a villain was contradicted by both a protagonist and the natural narrative was blatant enough.

Hero of Time != Hero. "He has no relation to the Hero of Time" "He is not the Hero of old." "You put your faith in this young man?" etc. etc. etc. They don't think he's the Hero of Time. Ganondorf is the only one who thinks so and he has no foundation for his assumption.

But, for the last time, those lines do not contradict Ganondorf. I certainly do not see how Link being unrelated to the legend of the HoT (where he returns to save them) has any bearing on what Link himself is and is not. It only does if you ignore the fact that they LITERALLY expected the HoT to return. It's told time and time again to the player - why do you think that is? Ganondorf did not expect OoT Link to return, and is the only one who experienced the legend first hand, so he is naturally more qualified on the subject than any of the others.

Same to you, Impossible.

Not canon? That is HIGHLY debatable. Besides, Princess Zelda has picked up the Master Sword on multiple occasions. I'm sure she could swing it if she had the muscle strength. OMG!

Yes, but as I noticed a long time ago, the sword does not glow while she is holding it. That is a trait that is exclusive to Link since the ALttP days.

Descendants? We don't actually know if the HoT actually had any, but that's aside from the point. There's no rule that states that only a Link can have the Triforce of Courage. That's just how it comes up in narrative.

Okay, "successors" then.

And the implication is that only those chosen by the gods can hold a Triforce piece within them. Am I the only one who notices that the King emphasizes this trait in the HoT? And then, when the same happens to Link, he considers that proof that Link is a true Hero (just like Ganondorf). And then he names him after his deeds, just like the Hero of Time was (an obvious parallelism).

The very start of those events was clearly a chance encounter. It's not like the voice of the Triforce asked Link to go with Tetra.

That didn't happen in TP either. It wasn't until Link got himself involved that it turned out he was destined to fight evil.

Indeed, Karmic Return. Which Link and Zelda broke forever.

It's worth noting that the word for reincarnation, "umarekawari", is more used for figurative instead of literal rebirth, as it's most common usage is to refer to the re-emergence of traits and talents in spiritual successors, such as a painter making masterpieces on par with a great-grandfather's.

You know, to be honest, this is what I always thought. I never thought reincarnation in Zelda was anything more than what TWW Link does - fulfilling the role of the old Hero, with the same spirit (not ?soul?, with memories and shit, just the same spirit/fate).

And of course, TWW marked an end to that (but OoT did not).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I KNEW GANONDORF WAS BOUND BY THE PAST HAHAHAHAHAHAHA EAT IT.

What?

AGAIN it's just Hyrule. Even if Hyrule is part of the past, that doesn't change anything with regards to the ending, or Ganondorf's credibility. Please, get a grip man.

This is even less supported by the games. We don't know anything to suggest that about the nature of the timeline split.

No, and that's why I said I think it would make sense. That doesn't mean I'm assuming it to be true.

Although I don't think what Ganondorf said was ENTIRELY erroneous, just not literal - it's there to carry on the idea that he's recreating the past. Um, the three holders of the Triforce pieces; the Hero, Zelda and Ganondorf, united atop Ganon's Tower? Is that familiar to ANYONE else? It's kind of OoT. Anyway, I want to let this go for now, just though I'd add my thoughts, since I came a bit late.

Yeah, but that wasn't by Ganondorf's design. It was fate, or so the game tells us. Even the King supports that assertion. Otherwise you take away all the finality of the ending, and the point of the game with it.

Awesome, I really love how clear it is. The meaning, of course, is identical - if anything, it's stronger and even clearer.

No, actually there's a few important differences. Ganondorf cites the Triforce, which confirms that it did speak to him OoT. A nice detail from ALttP, to be sure. Ganondorf also says his bond with Link is fated - and again, it the Triforce of Courage that links them. That's Ganondorf's "proof", such as it is, that Link is the reborn HoT. And it is also that fate which is ended by the King (and Ganondorf planned to do the same - so much for living in the past, huh?).

Edited by Hero of Legend, 14 September 2008 - 05:32 AM.





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