1600 replies to this topic

[Jumbie]

When Iron Knuckle uploaded the Japanese textdump of TP, I went straight to work with one of the most interesting parts, the vision Link is shown by Lanayru, where he tells about the Creation and the sealing of the Fused Shadow.
As was to be expected, there are a couple of differences between the English and Japanese versions.

1st line: original Japanese
2nd line: translated Japanese
3rd line: NoA translation

So, here goes:

混沌とし何もない世界に神々は　降臨し生命と秩序を造られ
The goddesses descended to the world of chaos where there was nothing at all, and created life and order.
When all was chaos, the goddesses descended and gave order and life to the world.

そして、全ての者達に平等に力を与え　天へお戻りになられた
And after granting power equally to all people, they returned to the heavens.
They granted power equally to all who dwelt in the light, and then returned to the heavens.

神々が最初に降り立った地は聖地と呼ばれ
The place where the goddesses first landed is called the holy land.
The lands where the goddesses descended came to be known as the Sacred Realm.

世界は長きにわたり信心深い者達の心で平安であった…
For a long time, the world was at peace, with people's hearts being deeply faithful…
For ages, the people lived at ease, content in mind and body…

しかし、やがて聖地ハイラルを巡り争いが起こった
But at length, a rivalry ensued over Hyrule, the holy land.
But soon, word of the Sacred Realm spread through Hyrule, and a great battle ensued…

人々の中に、魔術に長けた者達が現れ
In the midst of the people, persons who excelled at magic appeared.
Among those living in the light, interlopers who excelled at magic appeared.

強力な魔力によって聖地を治めようとした
With powerful sorcery, they tried to rule the holy land.
Wielding powerful sorcery, they tried to establish dominion over the Sacred Realm.

しかし、神は我ら光の精霊を遣わし　その者達の巨大なる魔力を封じこませたのだ
But the goddesses sent us light spirits to seal away the gigantic magic of those people.
It was then that the goddesses ordered us three light spirits to intervene. We sealed away the great magic those individuals had mastered.

そして、その魔力こそが　黒き力・・・影の結晶石である
And that very sorcery is the black power… the Crystal Stone of Shadow.
You know this magic… It is the dark power you seek…the Fused Shadow.

Differences:
- The goddesses granted power equally to all people, not to "all who dwelt in the light".
- Where English just speaks about the people being content, Japanese says their peace was due to them being deeply religious.
- In a most tricky sentence, there is no "word of" the Sacred Realm spreading at all. Although 聖地 is also the Japanese name of the SR, it literally means "sacred/holy land", which here (and throughout TP) is given as a description of Hyrule instead. The great battle is specifically a rivalry, so accordingly, what NoA translated as "through Hyrule" should better be "over Hyrule". So it was a rivalry over the holy land that is Hyrule.
Regardless though, I still maintain that this rivalry is the same war spoken of in OoT and ALttP. The fact remains unchanged that the Triforce is shown in the cutscene as the thing the magic users were after. Just that they coveted it to rule Hyrule.
Also, Lanayru explains that Hyrule is called the holy land because it was there that the Goddesses touched ground. And what did OoT say? The place where the Goddesses left the Triforce came to be known as the holy land. (That's my re-translation right here.)
- The word "interlopers" (or anything comparable) does not occur, neither does "living in the light".
- In context, the emergence of the persons excelling at magic is to be understood as the cause of the war.
- Japanese explains the Fused Shadow slightly better: it is a stone of crystallized shadows.
- Lanayru doesn't mention that Link/Midna seek this power.


Alright Fierce Deity Link, here are the results for "hero". I don't list every single quote though, most of them just mention the Hero's Bow.

Note that the choice of article before the word hero ("the" or "a") is based on mere guesswork. There are no such articles in Japanese, thus it must not be taken into consideration whether in the English version they put "a hero" or "the Hero" - it's the same.

Hero references:

その昔、ハイラルの危機を救った伝説の勇者が身につけていたとされる衣
It is assumed that in former times, these clothes were worn by the hero of legend who saved Hyrule from a crisis.

勇者の弓を手に入れた！ 古の勇者が遺したと伝えられるゴロン族の宝
You've obtained the hero's bow! The hero of old left it behind, and it is passed on as a treasure in the Goron tribe.

神に選ばれし勇者
hero chosen by the gods

ワタシの世界ではね、勇者は神獣となって現れると信じられてきた
In my world, it was believed that the hero will appear as a divine beast.

ここに我が夫が生前、勇者のために作らせた、ゾーラの力宿りし衣があります
In his lifetime, my husband made clothes for the hero housing the power of the Zoras.

お前には既に、勇者に必要な力が充分に備わっている
The power necessary to be the hero is already provided sufficiently in you.

だがそれは、気高き獣の精神を備える勇者の血族だけに受け継がれるもの
But I only accept to be succeeded by one who has the spirit of the sublime beast and who is a blood relative of the hero.

勇者として生をうけながら後世にそれを伝えることの出来なかった我が無念も、ようやく晴らすことが出来た
While I took up life as the hero and regretted that I wasn't able to pass it on to posterity, I've finally been able to clear my matters.

Edited by Jumbie, 05 May 2008 - 03:13 PM.

[SOAP]

That's really interesting. Especially the part that stated the Fused Shadow (Shadow Crysal) made people enormously huge.

I wonder if the Fused Shadow, the Twilight (Shadow) Realm, Twilight Mirror, and the huge black monolith that Ganondorf was chained to during his execution have anything to do with each other.

[FDL]

Nice. Interesting that "interlopers" isn't in the original language. If you can, could you translate the scene with Ganondorf's imprisonment and any of the times where the "ancient hero" is mentioned? I know that may take some time, but I'd like to see what is said after all the debates surrounding the OoT/TP connection.

Edited by Fierce Deity Link, 03 November 2007 - 03:35 PM.

[Showsni]

Pretty much no difference, then. It seems they've gone for a lot more literal approach to translation than the ALttP era.

[Jumbie]

I wonder if the Fused Shadow, the Twilight (Shadow) Realm, Twilight Mirror, and the huge black monolith that Ganondorf was chained to during his execution have anything to do with each other.

You mean the former three with the latter one? Too bad that the monolith is never even mentioned in the text...

If you can, could you translate the scene with Ganondorf's imprisonment and any of the times where the "ancient hero" is mentioned? I know that may take some time, but I'd like to see what is said after all the debates surrounding the OoT/TP connection.

Yes, the first one I was gonna do in any case.

As for the hero, what I can already say is that "hero" isn't capitalized anywhere in the Japanese text, since.. well, they simply don't have majuscules.
Anyway, I'll gladly do a search for yuusha, sometime soon

[Arturo]

First thing. I TOLD YOU!!
Interlopers wasn't on any languages but English, as far as I remember.
So...
I TOLD YOU!!!

[MikePetersSucks]

And there goes the "MM Dark Tribe" Theory. Pwnt.

[Arturo]

Okay, enough talk about size. Deleted spam.

[spunky-monkey]

Oh man, those translations did make me laugh hard...

But the god(desse)s sent us Light Spirits to seal away the sorcery which made those people enormously huge.[/color]

Light Spirits: "All your powers are belong to us!"
Twili: "DO NOT WANT!"

Where English just speaks about the people being content, Japanese says that they had deep (religious) faith and there was peace.

I prefer the English version thank you, its a much more accurate depiction of Hylian History. ;P

[Duke Serkol]

And there goes the "MM Dark Tribe" Theory. Pwnt.

Technically no, it's not refuted. The Japanese version doesn't state the contrary (it does not say they didn't appear from somewhere else) and it doesn't provide an alternative motive for the Twili's ancestors to be treated differently than Ganondorf.

[FDL]

If you can, could you translate the scene with Ganondorf's imprisonment and any of the times where the "ancient hero" is mentioned? I know that may take some time, but I'd like to see what is said after all the debates surrounding the OoT/TP connection.

Yes, the first one I was gonna do in any case.

As for the hero, what I can already say is that "hero" isn't capitalized anywhere in the Japanese text, since.. well, they simply don't have majuscules.
Anyway, I'll gladly do a search for yuusha, sometime soon

Well it's not really capitalization I'm looking for, it's more to see if it was less vague about anything.

And there goes the "MM Dark Tribe" Theory. Pwnt.

Technically no, it's not refuted. The Japanese version doesn't state the contrary (it does not say they didn't appear from somewhere else) and it doesn't provide an alternative motive for the Twili's ancestors to be treated differently than Ganondorf.

You always argued that the fact that they're called "Interlopers" meant something. Clearly, that's not the case now. In fact, the way it's said in this japanese version makes it seem like they're from Hyrule. Seriously, "interlopers" was the only solid piece of evidence in that theory. Without that, the theory seems imposed on the game just so you're idea of how things went down is true. As for why they were treated differently than Ganondorf, I already told you a while ago why that may be. This was probably before the Master Sword was forged to deal with people who lust after the Triforce. Hell, the Twili may be why it was decided that it had to be forged.

[Kamina]

Oh man, those translations did make me laugh hard...

But the god(desse)s sent us Light Spirits to seal away the sorcery which made those people enormously huge.[/color]

Light Spirits: "All your powers are belong to us!"
Twili: "DO NOT WANT!"

What the hell?
What do you mean?

[Duke Serkol]

He's referring to a Chinese pirate translation of Star Wars Episode III, hilarious stuff

[MikePetersSucks]

I prefer the English version thank you, its a much more accurate depiction of Hylian History. ;P

*slap*

[Jumbie]

Oh man, those translations did make me laugh hard...

But the god(desse)s sent us Light Spirits to seal away the sorcery which made those people enormously huge.[/color]

Light Spirits: "All your powers are belong to us!"
Twili: "DO NOT WANT!"

...Are you implying my wording sounds like Engrish?! For your information, I deliberately decided to write "enormously huge" because the Japanese word seems to refer to size (and not to greatness like the NoA version suggests).
Moreover, I avoided using such unnecessarily epic expressions as "to establish dominion" when all the Japanese actually says is a simple "to rule".

Where English just speaks about the people being content, Japanese says that they had deep (religious) faith and there was peace.

I prefer the English version thank you, its a much more accurate depiction of Hylian History. ;P

So to you "accurate" means censoring religious references?

Edited by Arturo, 17 April 2008 - 04:02 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

No quote about the bow being used to slay the fiercest evils the world as seen, or whatever?

[SOAP]

だがそれは、気高き獣の精神を備える勇者の血族だけに受け継がれるもの
But I only accept to be succeeded by one who has the spirit of the sublime beast and who is a blood relative of the hero.

Wait! Where in the game is this said and by whom?

[Jumbie]

Wait! Where in the game is this said and by whom?

By the Hero's Shade, on their last encounter, I suppose.

[Fyxe]

Before people start off about the Hero's Spirit again, I would like to note that 'Spirit' is the official translation, and I'm unclear on where the whole 'Shade' thing has appeared from.

[Jumbie]

Before people start off about the Hero's Spirit again, I would like to note that 'Spirit' is the official translation, and I'm unclear on where the whole 'Shade' thing has appeared from.

Shade comes from the Prima guide.

[Fyxe]

While the Prima guide is generally good for getting names right (it's not 100%, but it's close enough), Hero's Spirit is from the Official Player's Guide (and the website, I believe) so I would prefer to take that one as more accurate when it comes to the localisation. Shade implies slightly different things than Spirit.

[FDL]

Alright Fierce Deity Link, here are the results for "hero". I don't list every single quote though, most of them just mention the Hero's Bow.

Note that the choice of article before the word hero ("the" or "a") is based on mere guesswork. There are no such articles in Japanese, thus it must not be taken into consideration whether in the English version they put "a hero" or "the Hero" - it's the same.

Hero references:

その昔、ハイラルの危機を救った伝説の勇者が身につけていたとされる衣
It is assumed that in former times, these clothes were worn by the hero of legend who saved Hyrule from a crisis.

勇者の弓を手に入れた！ 古の勇者が遺したと伝えられるゴロン族の宝
You've obtained the hero's bow! The hero of old left it behind, and it is passed on as a treasure in the Goron tribe.

神に選ばれし勇者
hero chosen by the gods

ワタシの世界ではね、勇者は神獣となって現れると信じられてきた
In my world, it was believed that the hero will appear as a divine beast.

ここに我が夫が生前、勇者のために作らせた、ゾーラの力宿りし衣があります
In his lifetime, my husband made clothes for the hero housing the power of the Zoras.

お前には既に、勇者に必要な力が充分に備わっている
The power necessary to be the hero is already provided sufficiently in you.

だがそれは、気高き獣の精神を備える勇者の血族だけに受け継がれるもの
But I only accept to be succeeded by one who has the spirit of the sublime beast and who is a blood relative of the hero.

勇者として生をうけながら後世にそれを伝えることの出来なかった我が無念も、ようやく晴らすことが出来た
While I took up life as the hero and regretted that I wasn't able to pass it on to posterity, I've finally been able to clear my matters.

Nice, thanks. Interesting that it's even more specific about Link being a relative of the ancient hero. If you're able to translate what Renado says after the Goron Mines and what the third Goron elder says, that'd be cool too. But there's no rush.

No quote about the bow being used to slay the fiercest evils the world as seen, or whatever?

That's said by the final Goron elder and Jumbie doesn't have anything said by that elder up there, so we can't be sure. However, it may not mean anything.

だがそれは、気高き獣の精神を備える勇者の血族だけに受け継がれるもの
But I only accept to be succeeded by one who has the spirit of the sublime beast and who is a blood relative of the hero.

Wait! Where in the game is this said and by whom?

This is said after you learn the Finishing Blow.

[Jumbie]

No quote about the bow being used to slay the fiercest evils the world as seen, or whatever?

If you're able to translate what Renado says after the Goron Mines and what the third Goron elder says, that'd be cool too. But there's no rush.

True, those are important. I missed the one by the third elder because the respective "speech cell" doesn't contain the word hero.
I searched and found it, but... unfortunately the text data is incomplete, just the crucial characters in the middle of the sentence are missing. Instead they're replaced by this: [?]
Alas, that kind of encryption occurs in a lot of places in the textdump

Anyway, this is what's left for us to see:

凶悪な魔を[?]ったと言われるその武器は、ダルボスを鎮めるのにも使えるかも知れんゴロ・・・
That weapon is said [?] brutal demon(s). It might even be used to calm Darubosu, goro…
(NoA version: That weapon is said to have defeated the most powerful evils this world has ever known. It might even work to calm Darbus...)

Note: The Kanji 魔 could also mean "evil spirit", but I think it's more specific than just "an evil".

And here is the quote of Renado:

そのお姿を見ていると、ハイラルに伝わる古の勇者を思い出します
Looking at your appearance, the hero of old passed on in Hyrule is remembered.
(NoA version: In Hyrule, countless tales are told of the ancient hero...and your deeds bring them all to mind.)

Edited by Jumbie, 05 November 2007 - 01:02 PM.

[Iron Knuckle]

True, those are important. I missed the one by the third elder because the respective "speech cell" doesn't contain the word hero.
I searched and found it, but... unfortunately the text data is incomplete, just the crucial characters in the middle of the sentence are missing. Instead they're replaced by this: [?]
Alas, that kind of encryption occurs in a lot of places in the textdump

Hmmm... Yeah, that's very strange. There's a control code there which I can't place hence I had to replace it with [?]. I could take another look at it. Thing is that this control code is Japan only as it does not occur in the Euro dialog. I suspect it's a variable or a special custom icon of some kind as shift-JIS should contain all kanji required and such. There's no way I can guarantee it without a confirmation from somebody who has the Japanese version of TP...

Note: All words or characters between "[ ]" are insertions by control codes I edited in an automated fashion after dumping.

Edited by Iron Knuckle, 05 November 2007 - 04:23 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

凶悪な魔を[?]ったと言われるその武器は、ダルボスを鎮めるのにも使えるかも知れんゴロ・・・
That weapon is said [?] brutal demon(s). It might even be used to calm Darubosu, goro…
(NoA version: That weapon is said to have defeated the most powerful evils this world has ever known. It might even work to calm Darbus...)

I like the absence of the words "the most powerful" and of "this world". Makes things much more manageable and it may actually be the same name bow from MM, after all.

[Fyxe]

On the whole though, the connections between TP and OoT seem even more obvious in the Japanese version. As usual with these things.

Why does nobody get hold of the Japanese FSA and translate that? Honestly now, it's been out for ages. Someone must have it; heck, the Japanese version has a whole new game included. It must be one of easier games to find the Japanese text from.

[Duke Serkol]

Coinilius has been asking me to intercede with Jumbie about that. I told him I'm sure Jumbie would gladly give it a look if he provided the text.

[Iron Knuckle]

It's right here... Ah well, suit yourself if you don't like it.

Edited by Iron Knuckle, 06 November 2007 - 06:00 PM.

[Duke Serkol]

It already is? Oh good. This is quite the gaffe, but it seems I'm not the only one to have missed it

[Prime Blue]

Why does nobody get hold of the Japanese FSA and translate that? Honestly now, it's been out for ages. Someone must have it; heck, the Japanese version has a whole new game included. It must be one of easier games to find the Japanese text from.

As far as I can tell from translating a few passages, the translation is pretty accurate and literal.
One of the more obvious problems is the "ancient demon reborn" passage - the Japanese is quite a bit different, as it states he is an ancient demon that was revived.

Edited by Prime Blue, 06 November 2007 - 07:05 PM.