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#871 Arturo

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:38 AM

As for the Translation thread, I am still not sure about how to do it. It's more complicated than it looks like, since I CAN'T duplicate threads... (nor can admins)

And I think it's pretty much clear that TWW Link is somehow related to OoT Link, just like all Zelda's are related. I'd better believe Ganodnorf over the rest of the characters BECAUSE THGEY SEEM TO BE PRETTY MUCH IGNORANT. All of them expected an Epona-riding, Hylian-speaking 16-year-old Hero of Time, who would travel again through time to save them, just as he did before. That's what they were searching for. If they were expecting a reincarnation of the Hero, why is it so overemphasized that the Hero of Time could travel through time (he entered and exited Hyrule via time travel), that he appeared out of nowhere, etc. Because they didn't expect a new hero, they just wanted the original one TO COME AGAIN.

You seem not to believe Ganondorf, even though he's more knowledgeable than any other characters. Firstly, he's the only one who lived the legend from first ahnd and still survives, and seems to be the only who still knows the legend of the Triforce (asd the King quotes it from Ganondorf's speech). Moreover, at the Melee trophee, he's explicitly said to be the person who knows most about the Triforce. Who should you believe? Some delusional survivors of the tragedy, who expected the Hero of Tiem to LITERALLY come again? Or Ganondorf, the only one who actually was there, at the Tower, the only one who has ever touched the Triforce and knows more than anyone about it?

#872 Raien

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:52 AM

I wouldn't put much weight on Smash Bros. Trophies. The Brawl trophy for Dark Samus from the Metroid series says that no one knows her origins, despite the fact that Metroid Prime shows her origins quite clearly.

#873 Kamina

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 09:13 AM

I wouldn't put much weight on Smash Bros. Trophies. The Brawl trophy for Dark Samus from the Metroid series says that no one knows her origins, despite the fact that Metroid Prime shows her origins quite clearly.

But only in the 100% ending.
Also we still don't know where the meteorite came from that hit TallonIV.
So Dark Samus origins are still not clear.

But that is Off Topic.

#874 Raien

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 09:36 AM

Also we still don't know where the meteorite came from that hit TallonIV.


I presume you've never played Prime 3, then. The observatory of Elysia located the source of the meteorite, which was the planet Phaaze; the source of all Phazon. The meteorite was actually a Leviathan, and Prime was once a Metroid that the Leviathan had fed on Phazon in order to mutate it and control it as a guardian.

Edited by Raian, 14 September 2008 - 09:39 AM.


#875 Kamina

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 10:41 AM

Also we still don't know where the meteorite came from that hit TallonIV.


I presume you've never played Prime 3, then. The observatory of Elysia located the source of the meteorite, which was the planet Phaaze; the source of all Phazon. The meteorite was actually a Leviathan, and Prime was once a Metroid that the Leviathan had fed on Phazon in order to mutate it and control it as a guardian.

Must've missed that when playing MP3 Posted Image

But that doesnt prove that SSBB's trophy descriptions are wrong.

#876 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 10:42 AM

1) Well obviously he was in Hyrule when the seal was cast. 2) He didn't exactly "steal" the power, technically speaking, he kinda killed it outright.


1) Right, so how did he get out, if it was meant to be a seal on him (as the game text says)?
2) Agreed.

Have you read the translation at all?


Yes; I have always interpreted the "seal of the gods" to be the seal cast by the gods (the flood). Daphnes believes it to be "broken," but later we learn how Ganondorf was able to escape; he eliminated the Master Sword's power and thus was able to access his full power to escape the flooded Hyrule.

The Hero of Time has no family, that's why he was raised by a god damned tree.


It's illogical to say that someone has absolutely no living relatives. No relatives in his immediate family, perhaps.

Right, or he could've found another way around it, just like we were shown that there's multiple ways to revive Ganon from the dead.


Right, that's what I'm arguing about his escape. He finds a way around it in ALttP, even. He's a crafty bastard.

Write your passwords down, or use the "I forgot my password" feature.


The "I forget my password" feature only works if you can retrieve the email telling you your new password.

....You have absolutely no grasp on context, do you?


I certainly do; I acknowledge that Daphnes is referencing 1) who Ganondorf is, 2) the fact that he's currently a threat. I interpret the "seal of the gods" based on 1) what the game tells us the seal of the gods is, 2) the seal that Ganondorf was revived from to become a current threat. Thus, the "seal of the gods" is the flood seal, not the sages' seal, which has nothing to do with Ganondorf's current threat.

Elaboration purposes.


"This is Ganondorf. I don't know how he was able to be revived to threaten the Great Sea. Oh, about him he did a bunch of stuff that you already know from your legends. He's the same guy from your legends."

Redundant.

Are you fucking kidding me? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?


Wow, someone's too close-minded to make a logical progression.

Zelda says the sages will open the door and send Ganon into the realm; later Rauru addresses the "pantheon of ancient times," telling them to do precisely this. The sages appear, lift their arms as if to summon some spell, and then a void appears. Since the sages themselves are a "pantheon," or group of important people/legendary heroes, I interpret "pantheon of ancient times" as referring to the sages and their ancient lineage.

#877 Arturo

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 11:26 AM

Pantheon (in Greek, "all gods") is literally a group of gods, not of heroes or people. Gods. And the Sages are hardly gods. You are using it in a figurative sense that exists solely in English, as far as I know. I'm pretty sure I'd never call "panteón" to the group of the sages. Never. And I very much doubt this connotation exists as well in Japanese. At least NOA translated it as "Ancient Creators of Hyrule", which are obviously Din, Farore and Nayru, not the Six Sages.

You are just taking advantage of some obscure figurative meaning of a word, solely in English to say they are the ones being referred here. Unless you prove it's otherwise (and seeing MPS reaction, I'd doubt it is).

#878 jacensolo06

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 12:30 PM

Perhaps Ganondorf is quoting the Triforce, as depicted in ALTTP's original manual? "Whatever you desire, I shall desire it as well."


I'm pretty sure he's quoting the Triforce, but he's not quoting that.

This may be a stupid question, but was OoT's ending ever translated? That seems like it would be really obvious and significant to us, but I can't recall it coming up...


That would be important and I don't remember seeing it, so I'll translate it too.

#879 Showsni

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:37 PM

Also, WTF at this page. Arturo, can you please do what I suggested? We should really just have all the translations in one place to easily refer to.


What do you want done, Impossible?


#880 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:37 PM

Pantheon (in Greek, "all gods") is literally a group of gods, not of heroes or people.


3. the place of the heroes or idols of any group, individual, movement, party, etc., or the heroes or idols themselves: to earn a place in the pantheon of American literature.
5. the gods of a particular mythology considered collectively.


3. All the gods of a people considered as a group: Jupiter is head of the Roman pantheon.
5. A group of persons most highly regarded for contributions to a field or endeavor: the pantheon of modern physics.


In short, it can be either. In this case, we already know that the sages are going to seal the door, so it only makes sense when Rauru commands the "pantheon of ancient times" to do precisely that that he's referring to the sages (especially when, in response, they appear and fulfill his command).

Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 14 September 2008 - 03:19 PM.


#881 jacensolo06

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:48 PM

Here are the Zant quotes. Jumbie actually translated one of the lines from this scene already, so I'll post his translation along with mine for that line.


ザント!
Zant!

Zant.

自分がかけた 魔力によって 追い詰められるなんて 皮肉なもんだよな?
We?ve tracked you down using the magic that you yourself applied. Ironic, isn?t it?

Isn't this ironic? Here we are, all thanks to the dark magic curse you placed on Link!

我々は長きにわたり 虐げられてきた・・・
We have been oppressed for a long time?

You speak of magic? Still your tongue for a moment, whelp, and I will tell you of both magic and the oppression of ages...

魔術に長けた優れた民族が 虫カゴのような この世界に閉じ込められ
Our people, who exceled at sorcery, are imprisoned in this world that is like an insect cage.

The people of our tribe...a tribe that mastered the arts of magic... were locked away in this world like insects in a cage.

陰りの中で、いつしか 怒りや憎しみ・・・欲望を持たぬ ふぬけた者達に成り下がった
Before we knew it, being in the gloom had degraded us to cowards who had no anger, hatred, or? desire.

In the shadows we regressed, so much so that we soon knew neither anger nor hatred...nor even the faintest bloom of desire.

全ては 何もせず、影の世界に 甘んずる 愚かな王家のせい!
Everything is the due to the foolish royal family who did nothing and resigned themselves to this Shadow World!

And all of it was the fault of a useless, do-nothing royal family that had resigned itself to this miserable half-existence!

そんな腐敗した王家に 私は耐え忍び 長い間、仕えてきた
For a long time I had to put up with that depraved royal family as I served them.

I had served and endured in that depraved household for far too long, my impudent princess.

それは、次に一族を治めるのは 自分自身であると 信じていたからだ
I did this because I believed that I would be the next to govern the clan.

And why, you ask? Because I believed I would be the next to rule our people! THAT is why!

しかし、私は一族の長としては認められず 長の持つ魔力を、与えられることは無かった
However, I was not recognized as leader of the clan and was not given the magical power that the leader has.

But would they acknowledge me as their king? No! And as such, I was denied the magic powers befitting our ruler.

だが、私は絶望と憎悪のうねりの中で 神に出会ったのだ
But while I was in a swelling sea of despair and hatred, I came across a god.

It was then, in the thrall of hatred and despair, that I turned my eyes to the heavens...and found a god.

我が力をその身に宿せよ・・・
I will put my power in your body?

I shall house my power in you...

汝、望むもの有らば・・・我もまた、それを望む
If you desire anything? I will also desire it.

If there is anything you desire, then I shall desire it, too.

そして、我が神の 望みは一つ
And my god has one desire.

My god had only one wish...

光と影を 一つの闇に!!
For light and shadow to become one darkness!!

To merge shadow and light...and make darkness!

(Zant battle)

お・・・おのれ、・・・反逆者・・・ども!
Y?you?damn?traitors!

Y-You...TRAITORS!

教えてやるよ・・・オマエが長として 認められなかったのは、その目だ! 瞳の奥に潜む欲望が、古代の一族のように 力に支配されると 王は危懼したからさ!
I?ll tell you why you weren?t recognized as leader?It was those eyes! It was because desire lurks in the depths of your eyes and the king feared one who would be ruled by power like the ancient clan was.

Jumbie: I'll have you know... The reason why you were not accepted in the position of the leader is your eyes! Because the king feared that desire lying hidden in your pupils, due to which the clan of ancient times got controlled by power!
Traitors, ha! You want to know why none would call you king? It was your eyes, Zant. All saw it, a lust for power burning in your pupils... Did you think we'd forget our ancestors lost their king to such greed?

愚かなる影の王女、ミドナよ・・・ お前にかけられた 呪いは解けぬ・・・
Midna, foolish Shadow Princess? The curse placed on you will not be broken?

Midna... Foolish Twilight Princess... The curse on you cannot be broken...

一族にかけられた呪いは 我が神の力! お前に長としての魔力など、戻りはしない
The curse on the clan is my god?s power! The magic power you had as leader will not return.

It was placed on you by the magic of my god! The power you held as leader of the Twili will never return!

すでに、神は降臨し この世に 復活を果たした・・・ 我が主 ガノンドロフ様がいる限り 私は、主によって何度でも蘇る!!
God has already descended. His resurrection to this world has been carried out? As long as my master, Ganondorf-sama, exists, I can be resurrected by my master any number of times.

Already he has descended and been reborn in this world... As long as my master, Ganon, survives, he will resurrect me without cease!

(Midna attacks Zant)

ワタシの中に残る ほんのわずかな魔力を 使っただけなのに・・・
I only used a small amount of the magical power that is left in me?

I... I used just a fraction of the power that's in me now...

こ、これが、古代の一族が残した 魔力の一部・・・?!
This is one part of the magical power left behind by the ancient clan??!

I did THAT using only a fraction of my ancestors' magic?!

リンク、今度は ゼルダを助ける番だ!
Link, now it?s time to save Zelda!

Link! Now is the time! We must save Zelda!

魔力を取り戻すことは できなかったけど ワタシには 一族の残した力がある
I wasn?t able to take back the magical power, but I have the left over power of the clan.

The evil power Zant was wielding... I couldn't take it from him. But at least I still have the magic of my ancestors...

これで、あの人に 大切な力を返すことが できるんだ・・・
Now I can return that precious power to her?

With it, I can return the cherished power Zelda bestowed upon me...

さあ、行こう! ゼルダ姫が 待っている!
Now, let?s go! Princess Zelda is waiting!

Now! Let's go! Princess Zelda is waiting!


We pretty much already knew this, but Ganondorf is quoting the Triforce from the ALttP backstory in the Japanese as well.
When Zant refers to Midna as "Shadow Princess" this is not the same term as "Twilight Princess".

#882 Raien

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:59 PM

Fantastic, jacensolo! So the leader of the Twili held magical power that Zant could have used to invade and conquer the Light World. Without that magical power, Zant turned to Ganondorf's magic instead. And throughout the entire game, Midna had that power sealed within her. To quote MPS, Winsauce!

Edited by Raian, 14 September 2008 - 01:59 PM.


#883 spunky-monkey

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 02:59 PM

I'd better believe Ganodnorf over the rest of the characters BECAUSE THGEY SEEM TO BE PRETTY MUCH IGNORANT. All of them expected an Epona-riding, Hylian-speaking 16-year-old Hero of Time, who would travel again through time to save them, just as he did before. That's what they were searching for.

So was I... <_< ...the tragedy and deep-rooted irony of your statement is just too much to bare...


You can speculate whatever. Argue Kaepora Gaebora was his father if you want. Fact is, Hero of Time had no living family members, they all died presumbly in the fierce war before Hyrule was unified.

Hero of Winds was just a goofy kid, not a reborn evil-destroying legendary figure, so Ganon's gone all senile on us. Poor guy.

#884 Arturo

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 04:41 PM

Pantheon (in Greek, "all gods") is literally a group of gods, not of heroes or people.


3. the place of the heroes or idols of any group, individual, movement, party, etc., or the heroes or idols themselves: to earn a place in the pantheon of American literature.
5. the gods of a particular mythology considered collectively.


3. All the gods of a people considered as a group: Jupiter is head of the Roman pantheon.
5. A group of persons most highly regarded for contributions to a field or endeavor: the pantheon of modern physics.


In short, it can be either. In this case, we already know that the sages are going to seal the door, so it only makes sense when Rauru commands the "pantheon of ancient times" to do precisely that that he's referring to the sages (especially when, in response, they appear and fulfill his command).

In Spanish "Panteón" can mean a funeral monument, a mausoleum. But I don't argue that Rauru is talking about a graveyard, because we're not speaking about the fucking meanings of pantheon in English or Spanish, but JAPANESE. Japanese, you know, Japanese, that language Japanese people, and not YOU, speak. So please stop playing smart-arse about the figurative meanings of the word in English, because the game was written in Japanese. JAPANESE.


You really know how to stress me, for God's sake.


And Showsni, he wanted (and I do, as well as many other people) to make another thread to put all the translations in an ordered way. And I wasn't sure how to do it... but I think I've found a way to do it now ^^

I'll get to it tomorrow, I hope...

Edited by Arturo, 14 September 2008 - 04:43 PM.


#885 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 04:42 PM

But, for the last time, those lines do not contradict Ganondorf. I certainly do not see how Link being unrelated to the legend of the HoT (where he returns to save them) has any bearing on what Link himself is and is not. It only does if you ignore the fact that they LITERALLY expected the HoT to return. It's told time and time again to the player - why do you think that is? Ganondorf did not expect OoT Link to return, and is the only one who experienced the legend first hand, so he is naturally more qualified on the subject than any of the others.

Same to you, Impossible.


You're argument was trumped with my extrapolation on the choice of Ganondorf's wording.

Yes, but as I noticed a long time ago, the sword does not glow while she is holding it. That is a trait that is exclusive to Link since the ALttP days.


Fair enough, but the point is, Ancient Tablets makes it aware that someone other than a chosen hero can wield the sword if they're worthy.

And the implication is that only those chosen by the gods can hold a Triforce piece within them. Am I the only one who notices that the King emphasizes this trait in the HoT? And then, when the same happens to Link, he considers that proof that Link is a true Hero (just like Ganondorf). And then he names him after his deeds, just like the Hero of Time was (an obvious parallelism).


Fair enough.

That didn't happen in TP either. It wasn't until Link got himself involved that it turned out he was destined to fight evil.


Well that and he was like...abducted.

What?

AGAIN it's just Hyrule. Even if Hyrule is part of the past, that doesn't change anything with regards to the ending, or Ganondorf's credibility. Please, get a grip man.


It's "just" Hyrule? Way to overlook the entire point of the argument.

1) Right, so how did he get out, if it was meant to be a seal on him (as the game text says)?
2) Agreed.


1) The same way he gets out of every other sticky situation that isn't fatal.

It's illogical to say that someone has absolutely no living relatives. No relatives in his immediate family, perhaps.


Well, yea, because everyone has a common ancestor and yadda yadda, but whatever clan OOT Link belonged to survives only in him.

#886 jacensolo06

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Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:06 PM

In Spanish "Panteón" can mean a funeral monument, a mausoleum. But I don't argue that Rauru is talking about a graveyard, because we're not speaking about the fucking meanings of pantheon in English or Spanish, but JAPANESE. Japanese, you know, Japanese, that language Japanese people, and not YOU, speak. So please stop playing smart-arse about the figurative meanings of the word in English, because the game was written in Japanese. JAPANESE.


I'm not quite done with the OOT translations, but the Japanese in that line says "Ancient gods who created Hyrule".
So, yeah, there's no way it's referring to the sages.

#887 Impossible

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 01:34 AM

And I think it's pretty much clear that TWW Link is somehow related to OoT Link, just like all Zelda's are related. I'd better believe Ganodnorf over the rest of the characters BECAUSE THGEY SEEM TO BE PRETTY MUCH IGNORANT. All of them expected an Epona-riding, Hylian-speaking 16-year-old Hero of Time, who would travel again through time to save them, just as he did before. That's what they were searching for. If they were expecting a reincarnation of the Hero, why is it so overemphasized that the Hero of Time could travel through time (he entered and exited Hyrule via time travel), that he appeared out of nowhere, etc. Because they didn't expect a new hero, they just wanted the original one TO COME AGAIN.

You seem not to believe Ganondorf, even though he's more knowledgeable than any other characters. Firstly, he's the only one who lived the legend from first ahnd and still survives, and seems to be the only who still knows the legend of the Triforce (asd the King quotes it from Ganondorf's speech). Moreover, at the Melee trophee, he's explicitly said to be the person who knows most about the Triforce. Who should you believe? Some delusional survivors of the tragedy, who expected the Hero of Tiem to LITERALLY come again? Or Ganondorf, the only one who actually was there, at the Tower, the only one who has ever touched the Triforce and knows more than anyone about it?


I don't think you understand my point at all. All of this is irrelevant because I never said that Ganondorf was wrong. I said he was speaking in a different sense to the interpretation some have chosen. In context, as I've explained, this sense is far more logical because we can actually understand why he would say it. And the Japanese text backs me up - he's just seen Link fight for the first time, and is about to recreate his near-success at uniting the Triforce hundreds of years earlier. He sees that Link figuratively carries on the spirit of the Hero of Time, with the same courage and determination, representing all of the same things.

The other thing is, nobody else in the game is wrong, either. It's simply a fact that Link ISN'T the Hero of Time and is unrelated to the legend. There's no relationship for two reasons: The first is that Link has NO descendants on the adult timeline. The second is that it's pure fan fiction to suggest that he even had any living relatives - no canon OR non-canon source suggests this possibility at all. If he'd had any family, he would have been left in their care. And even then, a cousin or something being an ancestor of TWW Link wouldn't exactly make TWW Link the Hero of Time reborn any more than he is already - in the figurative sense. What other meaning IS there? Aside from it being what the Japanese version says, it's blatantly obvious that this is what Ganondorf means, because it's not like he's revived in the sense Ganon often is.

Nothing you say about Ganondorf's credibility in any way changes anything, because it would make no sense for Ganondorf to be wrong. And that fact is more evidence in my favour, because it would also make no sense for him to say that Link is LITERALLY the Hero of Time. And he has no basis on which to say that, regardless of how much he knows about the Hero of Time. He still knows no more than anyone else about the Hero of Winds - less, in fact. He could be the expert on the Triforce and all of Hyrule, that still doesn't give him the power to read souls and tell us who they belond to. He's only making an observation, and I'm putting this observation in context so that we can actually say that he's right, rather than making up illogical crap in order to make it mean something else. Yes, he lived the legend, which is why he knows what the Hero of Time looked like, what his weapon looked like, what power and Triforce piece he had, and how he fought. TWW Link has come to him to do exactly what OoT Link did once before, and in all of those ways, he seems to be the same. Hence, he carries on the role of the hero, albeit as the Hero of Winds. To Ganondorf, who is bound to the past, he sees Link as everything the Hero of Time was.

#888 Hero of Legend

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 05:02 AM

You're argument was trumped with my extrapolation on the choice of Ganondorf's wording.

Not really. Like I said, I never wanted more than what Ganondorf said. I guess the important question is if any case of reincarnation in Zelda is different from that which we see in TWW. Certainly, there is no difference between the way Link resembles the HoT's statue and say, that picture of the pirates in Hyrule castle. In fact, I don't think any game has ever treated reincarnation any different.

It's simply a fact that Link ISN'T the Hero of Time and is unrelated to the legend. There's no relationship for two reasons: The first is that Link has NO descendants on the adult timeline. The second is that it's pure fan fiction to suggest that he even had any living relatives - no canon OR non-canon source suggests this possibility at all.

Actually, there's the Hero's Shield passed on in Link's family, but nobody cares about that. Of course, by the same token you say Ganondorf has no way of knowing who Link is, neither does the KoRL, who first saw him when he started traveling with the pirates. He can't possibly speak with any authority on the subject of Link's ancestry, and with this in mind, the only reasonable interpretation of the King's words to Jabun is that which he actually says; that Link is not the HoT from the legend (whom they both wanted/expected). You still ignore context if you deny the meaning of his conversation with Jabun. Yes, you are as narrow minded as you accuse everyone else of being, Impossible.

However...

TWW Link has come to him to do exactly what OoT Link did once before, and in all of those ways, he seems to be the same. Hence, he carries on the role of the hero, albeit as the Hero of Winds. To Ganondorf, who is bound to the past, he sees Link as everything the Hero of Time was.

So we agree, then. I mean, if that case then we have no reason to think Link is any is no different from anyone else in TWW. Well, Zelda is related to her ancestor, but that's not important. What's important is that they look, act and function in the same way. They don't have to be literally the same people (like Ganondorf) as long as they play the same part in fate's little game. And that, they most certainly do.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 15 September 2008 - 05:22 AM.


#889 Raien

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 05:53 AM

jacensolo, if you have the time, could you translate something else for me (which is actually relevant to this current discussion)? In Twilight Princess, Link encounters the Hero's Spirit for the fifth time and is told that they share the same bloodline (suggesting a literal blood relation). Does this exist in the Japanese version, or is it a spiritual heritage like the Sages?

#890 Hero of Legend

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 06:07 AM

The first time they meet, he also says they share the same spirit. Could you look at that as well?

#891 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 10:16 AM

The second is that it's pure fan fiction to suggest that he even had any living relatives - no canon OR non-canon source suggests this possibility at all. If he'd had any family, he would have been left in their care. And even then, a cousin or something being an ancestor of TWW Link wouldn't exactly make TWW Link the Hero of Time reborn any more than he is already - in the figurative sense.


1) It's a statistical likelihood that he had living relatives, although they are in all probability distant ones.
2) The whole point of Link's origin story describes that his mother attempted to flee from the war and that she was only just able to make it to the forest to give her baby up to the Deku Tree. There's no way he even could have been left in another relative's care.
3) No one's arguing anything more than the figurative sense; we're arguing from the concept that heroes emerge from the bloodline of the legendary Knights as ALttP posed a long time ago.

#892 Arturo

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 10:57 AM

As for Link being the Hero of Time reborn, I have found that most translators didn't interpret him as such, but translated the weird word for reincarnated as being a "worthy successor of the Hero of Time". This doesn't change that the King, Valoo, the Great Deku Tree and Jabun were wrong, either. But it's interesting to know.

I think now it's pretty clear that the Hero of Winds might or might not be the reincarnation of the ancient hero, and Ganondorf just said he was worthy. The King is wrong when he says he's not realted to teh legend because they hoped to find literally the same Hero of Time. That doesn't mean there's no relation between them. In fact, I believe there is.

#893 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 11:21 AM

Indeed; if we judge by ALttP's hero rule, he probably is, regardless of what timeline ALttP is on.

#894 jacensolo06

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:07 PM

Here's the ending to OOT starting with arriving at the top of Ganon's Tower:

共鳴している? トライフォースが、再び 一つに 戻ろうとしている?
They?re resonating? The Triforces are becoming one again?

The Triforce parts are resonating... They are combining into one again...

七年前の あの日? 我が手に できなかった 2つの トライフォース? まさか キサマたち ふたりに 宿っていようとはな?
That day seven years ago? The two Triforces I couldn?t get my hands on? I never thought they would be dwelling in you two?

The two Triforce parts that I could not capture on that day seven years ago... I didn't expect they would be hidden within you two!

そして今、ついに? 全ての トライフォースが ここに そろった!
And finally? All of the Triforces are now gathered here!

And now, finally, all the Triforce parts have gathered here!

キサマらには 過ぎたオモチャだ?
These toys are too much for you?

These toys are too much for you!

返してもらうぞ!!
I?ll make you return them to me!!

I command you to return them to me!

リンク! ダメだヨ? 闇の波動で ナビィ、近づけない! ゴメンね、リンク?
Link! It?s no use? Because of the waves of darkness, I can?t get near him! Sorry, Link?

Link! I can't help you! Because of the waves of darkness, I can't get close! I'm sorry, Link!

(Ganondorf Battle)

この オレ様が?  魔王ガノンドロフが 敗れるの?か? こんな 小僧に?
I? Maou Ganondorf have been defeated? by this kid??

The Great Evil King Ganondorf... beaten by this kid?!

リンク?!
Link?!

Link....!

ガノンドロフ? 哀れな男? 強く正しい心を 持たぬゆえに 神の力を 制御できずに?
Ganondorf? Pitiful man? He lacked a strong, righteous heart and therefore was unable to control the power of the gods?

Ganondorf...pitiful man... Without a strong, righteous mind, he could not control the power of the gods...and...

リンク、聞いて! この塔は まもなく 崩壊します! ガノンドロフは 最後の力で、 私たちを 道づれにするつもりです! 急いで 脱出しないと!
Link, listen! This tower is going to collapse before long! With the last of his power, Ganondorf plans on taking us down with him! We must hurry and escape!

Link, listen to me! This tower will collapse soon! With his last breath, Ganondorf is trying to crush us in the ruins of the tower! We need to hurry and escape!

私の あとに ついてきてください!
Please follow me!

Please follow behind me!

(Escape from the tower and Ganon fight)

私の力で 魔王を押さえます。 あとは あなたの剣で 魔王に とどめを!
I?m pinning the Maou down with my power. Deliver the finishing blow to him with your sword!

I'm using my power to hold the Evil King! You use your sword and deliver the final blow!

六賢者たちよ? 今です!!
Six Sages? Now!!

Six Sages? Now!!

ハイラルを 創りたまいし 古代の 神々よ! 今こそ 封印の扉 開きて 邪悪なる 闇の化身を 冥府の彼方へ 葬りたまえ!!
Ancient gods who created Hyrule! Open the sealed door now and entomb the evil incarnation of darkness beyond the realm of the dead!!

Ancient Creators of Hyrule! Now, open the sealed door and send the Evil Incarnation of Darkness into the void of the Evil Realm!!

おのれ・・・・
Damn you?

YOU...

おのれ・・・ゼルダ!おのれ・・・賢者共!
Damn you?Sages! Damn you? Zelda!

CURSE YOU...ZELDA! CURSE YOU...SAGES!!

おのれ? リンク!
Damn you? Link!

CURSE YOU...Link!

いつの日か? この封印が 解き放たれし時? その時こそ キサマたちの一族 根絶やしに してくれる!!
One day? When this seal is released? At that time, I?ll eradicate your families!!

Someday... When this seal is broken.... That is when I will exterminate your descendants!!

我が 手の内に 力のトライフォース ある限り?
As long as the Triforce of Power is within my hand?

As long as the Triforce of Power is in my hand....

ありがとう リンク? あなたの力で ガノンドロフは 闇の世界に 封印されました。 これで この世界も ふたたび 平和な時を 刻み始めるでしょう。
Thank you, Link? Thanks to your power, Ganondorf has been sealed in the world of darkness. Now this world will once again begin a time of peace.

Thank you, Link... Thanks to you, Ganondorf has been sealed inside the Evil Realm! Thus, peace will once again reign in this world...for a time.

これまでの 悲劇は すべて 私の あやまちです? おのれの 未熟さを かえりみず、 聖地を 制御しようとし? さらに あなたまで この争いに 巻き込んでしまった。 今こそ 私は その あやまちを 正さねばなりません。 マスターソードを 眠りにつかせ? 「時の扉」を 閉ざすのです。
All of the tragedy up to this point has been my fault? I attempted to control the Sacred Land without considering my inexperience? I even got you involved in this conflict. Now I must correct that mistake. Lay the Master Sword to sleep? and close the ?Door of Time?.

All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time...

けれど? その時、時を旅する道も 閉ざされてしまいます?
But? When you do, the road to travel in time will also close?

However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed...

リンク、 オカリナを 私に? 今の私なら、賢者として この 時のオカリナで あなたを 元の時代に 帰してあげられます。
Link, Give the ocarina to me? Right now, I, as a sage, can return you to your original era with this Ocarina of Time.

Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it.

ハイラルに 平和が戻る時? それが? 私たちの 別れの時なのです?ね。
When peace returns to Hyrule? That?s when? We must part?right?

When peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye...

さあ 帰りなさい リンク 失われた時を 取り戻すために! あなたが いるべきところへ? あなたが あるべき姿で?
Now, return, Link. So that you can regain the lost time! To where you should be? To the form you should have?

Now, go home, Link. Regain your lost time! Home? where you are supposed to be... the way you are supposed to be...

ありがとう? リンク? さようなら?
Thank you? Link? Farewell?

Thank you... Link... Good-bye....


The Japanese term meifu, which I translated as "realm of the dead", refers to a place where people go when they die regardless of whether they were good or evil. In that respect it is similar to the ancient Greek Hades and the Hebrew Sheol.

#895 Raien

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:47 PM

Lol, well that clears up one big problem. Zelda took the Ocarina and sent Link immediately to the past. Now, who was it that theorised Zelda transported Link to the Temple of Time, in order for Link to place the Master Sword and return to the past himself?

Edited by Raian, 15 September 2008 - 03:49 PM.


#896 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:49 PM

Actually, there's the Hero's Shield passed on in Link's family, but nobody cares about that.


Oh wah, several clans or groups have "passed down" items of the Hero. Maybe Link sold it. Maybe it's not even the same damn shield, as it would've disappeared with him when he went back in time.

3) No one's arguing anything more than the figurative sense; we're arguing from the concept that heroes emerge from the bloodline of the legendary Knights as ALttP posed a long time ago.


Technically that concept was only relevant to LTTP, as a hero descended from the Knights is only specifically called for on Cataclysm's Eve, when evil claims the whole Triforce.

#897 Lexxi Aileron

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:59 PM

What about that line that, in English, goes: "Destroy Ganon with the sacred sword!" or whatever?

Lol, well that clears up one big problem. Zelda took the Ocarina and sent Link immediately to the past. Now, who was it that theorised Zelda transported Link to the Temple of Time, in order for Link to place the Master Sword and return to the past himself?


That was, you know, way before the split timeline. But if we want to have fun digging up old issues as if they still have any relevance, be my guest. It's worth about as much as most mudslinging.

Technically that concept was only relevant to LTTP, as a hero descended from the Knights is only specifically called for on Cataclysm's Eve, when evil claims the whole Triforce.


I was talking about the "whenever disaster waylays the royal family" bit.

#898 Showsni

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 04:19 PM

Technically that concept was only relevant to LTTP, as a hero descended from the Knights is only specifically called for on Cataclysm's Eve, when evil claims the whole Triforce.


But since it's possible for evil to threaten the triforce sometime in the future and start a new cataclysm, the knight's line must prevail against such an eventuality.


#899 Hero of Legend

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 04:21 PM

Oh wah, several clans or groups have "passed down" items of the Hero. Maybe Link sold it. Maybe it's not even the same damn shield, as it would've disappeared with him when he went back in time.

Impossible claimed there was absolutely no evidence - and that's a lie. However, the origin of the shield is a mystery since it does not look like the Hylian Shield used by the HoT's statue. I don't know what to make of it - perhaps the shield serves a symbolic value (as Link's parting gift) that goes beyond petty graphical details, or perhaps the designers just forgot.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 15 September 2008 - 04:35 PM.


#900 Duke Serkol

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 06:49 PM

お・・・おのれ、・・・反逆者・・・ども!
Y?you?damn?traitors!

Y-You...TRAITORS!

Considering that Link owes no allegiance to the (usurper) King of Twilight, wouldn't it make more sense for it to be traitor, singular? I ask because I know Japanese can be confusing when it comes to plural.

His resurrection to this world has been carried out?

Interesting wording there... (resurrection TO this world). Makes me wonder if I'm missing something.

Ancient gods who created Hyrule! Open the sealed door now and entomb the evil incarnation of darkness beyond the realm of the dead!!

Wait... beyond? As in "not in the realm of the death but something that is past even that"?

Edited by Duke Serkol, 15 September 2008 - 06:51 PM.





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