278 replies to this topic

[Showsni]

By saying the "Master Sword sleeps forever" line is wrong, and having the IW exactly as in the manual before LttP, with OoT a seperate imprisoning of Ganon that happened centuries later.

[Zythe]

How could Ganon have been sealed before Ocarina of Time if that was the era in which he was a regular human and no one knew what he was capable of? "The Master Sword sleeps forever" line cannot just be ignored like that. They put it in the new version, when they changed other bits. Plus, Ganon was a recognised Big Bad in LTTP and just the Gerudo King in OoT, a Saddam Hussein to the Hylian world if you will.

If an element of a story throws apart your theory, you can't just pull a Mike Peters and ignore it.

[MikePetersSucks]

Zythe has a point. It's something else entirely when we refer to that line in the SNES version, and that new games override it, but since they kept it in the GBA version DESPITE other changed material, it means that they really DO intend for the Master Sword to sleep forever after LTTP. that automatically places OOT and TWW before LTTP forever.

[Zythe]

Add OoA, OoS, SCII and possibly Z2005 to that list.

[Zythe]

The bloodstained hands were covered in the blood of the invisible NPCs of Hyrule Castle Town - the redeads. Gerudoes = enchanted thieves, too (Gerudoes have pointy ears - thus Hylian - thus 'enchanted'!).

[Hero of Winds]

By saying the "Master Sword sleeps forever" line is wrong, and having the IW exactly as in the manual before LttP, with OoT a seperate imprisoning of Ganon that happened centuries later.

So your theory works if you ignore a crucial part of ALttP?

[Zythe]

So what are you trying to say? That ALTTP refers to yet another acquisition of the Triforce?

[Showsni]

I don't really ignore the line - that line is a part of the aLttP story, written, as with the rest of the story, at the time of aLttP (in terms of looking at the games as a real history). It belongs in the game, and I won't dispute that. The line was not a true prophecy made at the time; it was merely a statement made at the time. The people thought that the Master Sword would never need to be used again. The Master Sword was specifically created to combat the Triforce's powers. At the end of aLttP, for the first time ever (in my timeline, anyway) the entire triforce was in the hands of a wholly good and worthy person. No further troubles could be envisioned by anyone; they truly believed the Master Sword would never be used again. In actual fact, they were proved wrong by later events. In my timeline, it's even possible that the Master Sword was used as the lock to the Sacred Realm in the Temple of Time because they beleived that it would never be used again, as claimed in the earlier legend, a Link to the Past.

Furthermore, consider this - if you don't put aLttP before OoT, you are required to place TWW before other games such as AoL and LoZ, assuming that OoT comes first in the timeline. This involves a messy new Hyrule being discovered, or the old one draining. Choosing to say that the tellers of one of the stories got a single line mistaken, though they said it in good faith, is a lot less timeline manipulating than inventing a Hyrule draining or rediscovering.

Yes, I beleive that OoT and the IW are two wholly different acquisitions of the Triforce from the Sacred Realm. It's the only way to equate the radically different events in the aLttP backstory and OoT.

Of course, I'll probably be proved completely wrong by the new Zelda game, but until then I think my timeline makes sense.

[Zythe]

It was a true prophecy, because it was kept with hindsight. It was an overall sentiment that helped to set the storyline to be continued and followed in later games.

[Showsni]

I see the games as a series of ancient legends, as is stated in the aLttP manual. These have come down to us as they are, and can't really be changed, except for things like translation errors. The Master Sword line is a part of the legend - or course it is kept, even though we know it is wrong. We wouldn't, say, change the Odyssey because we now know that you can't sail to the Underworld, though changing an English edition to make it tally better with the Greek would be okay.

[Zythe]

It was part of the end credits. Not a line said by an individual, thus 100% accurate and completely canonical.

[Vazor]

The Master Sword just stays in the Lost Woods forever. Period. The reason we don't see it in LoZ/AoL is because it's probably been covered by vines growing around it or something, but it is never used again. You can't argue with the fact that they left it in the modified GBA version.

[Zythe]

Thanks, Vazor. The only games that can come after LTTP are LA, FS, TMC, HA, LOZ, AoL and CDi.

The only exception is perhaps SCII, which could come somewhere between Ganon's demise and the final sleep of the MS.

[SOAP]

Zythe... Pointy-earred Gerudos? What the HELL are you talking about!?

Anyways, I once had a LttP-before-OoT theory. Little things like the weird structure in OoT Hyrule Feild that somewhat aligned with Hyrule Castle in ALttP... The legendary bunnies that were extinct in OoT but ran rampant in ALttP...And of course how the different races seemed to either go extinct or turn babaric if you place ALttP after OoT wheras if you flip it around you see a much happier flow of events with the Zora's becoming civilized and new races popping up and forming alliances with the humans. But alas, I much rather have ALttP as the last Ganon-Hyrule-Triforce related game. As for OoT being the IW, I'm not sure about that anymore. More and more I'm begining to think that it didn't involve ANY of the Links, rather it was the people of Hyrule who finally got tired of waiting for some hero to return and dealt with Ganon on their own. The final quote I think is more of saying like: "And thus he never touched another woman ever again. The end." But it's never really the end. Time keeps going. The fat lady still remains silent. Elvis remains indoors. Crap still happens. I don't think the people are just going to stand by idly while danger approaches and say to one another: "Oh I wish we could use the Master Sword." "Yeah but you know it's supposed to be resting forever." "Oh yeah... Bugger!"

No. The reason I think ALttP is last, or at least, more towards the end is because Dark World was supposed to be torn asunder, and with no world for Ganon to return to to in death, it means he's dead for good. And yes I believe in the Miyamoto Order!

Also, not to forcve everyone back to original topic but think that Light Force was meant to be the Triforce, or at least, singular peices of it. Was it put in the game with careful regards to everything we've been told about the Triforce in past games? Most likely not. I think Capcom just threw it in there just because it'd be cool or whatever. They seem to do that [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]. The reason I believe it's the Triforce is because I doubt the people of Hyrule would bother with a make-shift magical force that needed to be amplified by some stupid hat in order to work when there's the Real McCoy in the Sacred Realm. The Triforce never touched prior to OoT? Where the hell does it ever say that?<_<

[Vazor]

So, there are a bunch of theories now, so I suggest that anybody with a consistant theory post it in simple timeline form so we can compare them and maybe narrow it down to one or two possibilities. I'll start with mine:

MC>OoT>MM>WW>OoA/S>FS/A>LTTP>(SCII>)LA>LoZ>AoL

[SOAP]

Bah! I have way too many. I'll start with my current project then:

TMC>>LOZ>AOL>>OOT>MM>>TWW>>ALTTP>OOS/A>LA>>FS>FSA

So what we have here is a Wind Waker-ish Link in the begining, middle, and end of the timeline.

[SOAP]

Well [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of disasters happened and junk and besides, as I recalled it was just the Maidens and a bunch of old dudes that remembered the Imprisoning War so in fact, the people forgot about that too. Anyways, most people think the IW was Ganon's first official imprisonment or whatever but my theory is that it was his last and did not involve any of the Links but the Knights of Hyrule instead. So the IW would be the most recent thing in Hyrulean history in ALttP's era and therefore the freshest story in their minds. Also, and I've said this many times before, how do you know the people forgot about those things. There are many books in the library in ALttP. How do know events from the other games aren't recorded in there? They're not mentioned because they're not relevant. Just because something's not in a game doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

That question was pretty big, btw.

[Showsni]

IW>aLttP>LA>AoL backstory (sleeping princess)>LoZ>AoL>Oracles>OoT>MM>TWW.

I haven't placed FS, FSA or TMC yet - I'll wait 'till I complete them.

[Zythe]

Also, not to forcve everyone back to original topic but think that Light Force was meant to be the Triforce, or at least, singular peices of it. Was it put in the game with careful regards to everything we've been told about the Triforce in past games? Most likely not. I think Capcom just threw it in there just because it'd be cool or whatever. They seem to do that [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]. The reason I believe it's the Triforce is because I doubt the people of Hyrule would bother with a make-shift magical force that needed to be amplified by some stupid hat in order to work when there's the Real McCoy in the Sacred Realm. The Triforce never touched prior to OoT? Where the hell does it ever say that?

Yes! Someone agrees with me!

Could a mod do us a favour and attatch a for and against poll to this topic, regarding the Light Force?

[Fatgoron]

Everything points to neutral sacred relam in OoT prior to Ganondorf's obtaining the triforce.
Now, unless a completely nuetral person made a neutral wish on the triforce, I don't think that the sacred relam could have remained neutral, and that's assuming that it can be altered to a point between being a realm full of darkness and a paradise.

The IW is relevant to aLttP. Much like how when someone thinks of jesus the first thing to occur to them is the most important moment in his life, which would be his creation. The legend of the IW, is included to explain Ganondorf's origins to the player, and is obviously the most important aspect of his life. The IW is the crucial turning point where Ganondorf obtained the ToP and first became Ganon.(supposedly)

It does seem strange that Ganon has escaped from his binding so may times, only to be back in the sacred realm alive and well, and sealed, in aLttP. Of course we need a new game to explain those events, which could even go on to be a more accurate telling of the IW.

[MK.]

Silver Arrow contradictions in TWW

What are the Silver Arrow Contradictions?

[Fatgoron]

IIRC there was no mention of silver arrows in WW. Perhaps they meant light arrows?

[Zythe]

I hope this answers your question. Fairy Queen made Silver Arrows which are more poweful than the Master Sword. Zelda made the Light Arrows which only serve to immobilise Ganon even when he has the ToP. Silver>Light.

[MK.]

Now my question is, is that if the story of the Imprisoing War was about Ganon getting the Triforce of Power, then how come he has the complete Triforce in A link to the Past?

It is debatable if he had the full version. Link's entering of the room could have resulting in the piece within him to go join the other 2 (one from Zelda one from Ganon)

When LTTP was written, I doubt Nintendo EVER planned they'd make OOT, which would then be a BACKSTORY to LTTP's story... Considering this, Nintendo did damn well to make OOT be a well done backstory to LTTP...