Jump to content

IPBoard Styles©Fisana

Photo

Four Sword, Light Force and Vaati, oh my.


  • Please log in to reply
302 replies to this topic

#61 Hero of Slime

Hero of Slime

    Zol

  • Members
  • 1,778 posts
  • Location:Seattle
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 August 2005 - 03:08 PM

So the Light Arrows in the Stone Tower must relate back to Zelda and the Triforce. Even when the Stone Tower was built in Termina many years before Zelda was born. Zelda might have created the Light Arrows that she gave to Link but apparently Light Arrows them selves were around before that.

#62 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 27 August 2005 - 04:17 PM

Firstly, Termina is a parrelel world. Things are going to have different origins there. The same people from Hyrule live there but they don't all have the same origins. Kotake and Koume aren't Gerudos, Malon exists as both an adult and a child at once, etc.

So the Light Arrows in Termina would be different from the Light Arrows in Hyrule.

#63 Hana-Nezumi

Hana-Nezumi

    Flower Mouse

  • Members
  • 6,040 posts
  • Gender:Androgynous Male Rodent

Posted 27 August 2005 - 04:50 PM

He doesn't seem very god-like to me.
All it takes is four kids with magic swords to beat him.

I don't see it being possible to negate the effects of a Triforce wielder's will, wishing cap or no. The complete triforce grants the user the power of the gods. Were Zelda to have said power, it shouldn't be possible to harm her in any way.

"Four kids" can do a lot when they are using a super-powerful sword and combine their powers through teamwork.

Hello? In OoT, Zelda had the ToW, but Ganondorf still manged to capture her in that crystal. Besides, the triforce's properties are inconsistent between the games. We have to accept that. Before OoT, the triforce was seemingly always a physical object. Then when OoT came out and Link had the ToC inside his heart, things changed. You especially can't expect everything to be perfectly consistent in a game that was made by another company.

#64 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 27 August 2005 - 08:38 PM

Well, actually, we could assume Ganon had the Triforce of Power within his body in the original Zelda, which is why it only appears once he's returned to ashes.

But yes, that's just retrospective interpretation, it wasn't until OoT that they clearly gave the Triforce a more etheral presence.

And again, be fair to Capcom, both Nintendo AND Capcom made it, so if Nintendo had noticed Capcom adversely messing with the plot they would of said 'hold up a second'. Whos to say the 'Light Force' wasn't Nintendo's idea anyway? We don't know.

Finally, enchantedtoast, in your response to Fatgoron's post, you ignored the obvious example of ALttP, where Link, armed with nothing but the Master Sword and the Silver Arrows (admittedly just the weapons needed to repel the power of the Triforce and destroy Ganon), defeated Ganon, who was armed with the entire Triforce.

Vaati was not a god, although he thought himself to have the strength of one. And the implication seems to be that he was partly accurate; he had the power of the gods, at least part of it. But the Four Sword is a blade that may be even stronger than the Master Sword, or at least nearing it's strength.

#65 MikePetersSucks

MikePetersSucks

    Actual Japanese Person

  • ZL Staff
  • 4,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 August 2005 - 10:44 PM

Why is Zelda having the entire Triforce so ridiculous, exactly?

I don't see it being possible to negate the effects of a Triforce wielder's will, wishing cap or no. The complete triforce grants the user the power of the gods. Were Zelda to have said power, it shouldn't be possible to harm her in any way.


And as for Vaati's power... He gains a lot of power, but he doesn't actually become a god. Don't you think it's a bit bizarre that he gets the POWER of a god, anyway? What sort of object in Hyrule could do that? Hmm... The TRIFORCE, maybe?

Ok, so he's not a god. Let's assume this IS the Triforce. He only got 2/3rds of a piece. Thusly, there's no power to go on. Especially not THAT MUCH!

He doesn't seem very god-like to me.
All it takes is four kids with magic swords to beat him.


Keep in mind the Four Sword draws on the same power Vaati does. It might even function as a failsafe for anyone who abuses the Light Force like the Master Sword does for the Triforce.

Yeah, you get treasures from chests. So? That doesn't mean they originated from a chest. They must of been created in the first place. The affinity that the Light Arrows share with Zelda implies that she had something to do with their creation, especially as other abilities of hers appear to share the same force behind them.

I always did think Zelda created those with her Light Force/Triforce/Sage Powers/Innate Psychic abilities.

Or their ability to counter the Triforce's power could also imply a connection with the Triforce.


You mean the Silver Arrows? Light Arrows just stun the wicked.

#66 Fatgoron

Fatgoron

    Journeyman

  • Members
  • 307 posts

Posted 28 August 2005 - 07:39 AM

Finally, enchantedtoast, in your response to Fatgoron's post, you ignored the obvious example of ALttP, where Link, armed with nothing but the Master Sword and the Silver Arrows (admittedly just the weapons needed to repel the power of the Triforce and destroy Ganon), defeated Ganon, who was armed with the entire Triforce.

It seems rather more like he didn't actually use it during the battle. There are very obvious inferences, and it does seem that the intention was to have him using the triforce's power at the time, but when one considers the newer games, and the currently established behaviours of the Triforce, it seems far less likely that he was using the power of teh complete triforce at that point.

#67 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 28 August 2005 - 07:56 AM

Unfortunately, that doesn't make any sense, and it messes with ALttP's internal logic. Link was meant to beat Ganon despite Ganon being armed with the Triforce, because he is the legendary Hero. It makes no sense why Ganon would not have the full power of the Triforce behind him during the battle.

The Triforce is *not* actually omnipitent. It's likely that the gods added the whole 'Hero' dealy to counter the possibility of an evil-hearted person like Ganon getting their hands on the Triforce.

#68 Nevermind

Nevermind

    Building consensus...

  • Members
  • 9,417 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 28 August 2005 - 08:12 AM

Makes you wonder just what the Triforce was actually for. Is it there to keep a balance on the forces or what? I mean, why leave behind a big giant triangle in the first place, anyway...

#69 MikePetersSucks

MikePetersSucks

    Actual Japanese Person

  • ZL Staff
  • 4,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 August 2005 - 11:28 AM

Most likely, it's a force of nature that keeps the universe together. Or something.

#70 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 28 August 2005 - 12:50 PM

They left it as a symbol of their power to inspire and aid the Hylian people.

You might as well ask 'why create Hyrule in the first place?'.

Gods are clearly very bored.

#71 Crazy Penguin

Crazy Penguin

    Knight

  • Members
  • 729 posts

Posted 28 August 2005 - 08:49 PM

I mean, why leave behind a big giant triangle in the first place, anyway...


Because it looks prettier than their initial idea of a big silver rectangle.

#72 Nevermind

Nevermind

    Building consensus...

  • Members
  • 9,417 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 28 August 2005 - 10:18 PM

Okay, so why make it grant wishes then, and then split apart if someone's heart is not pure? Other than to set the scene for an epic story.

Was the reasoning behind the Triforce this vague on purpose, or is this just a 'no one will think about it THAT much' kinda thing?

#73 Vazor

Vazor

    Pancake Pirate

  • Members
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 28 August 2005 - 10:34 PM

If I had to venture a guess I'd say the latter.

#74 Crazy Penguin

Crazy Penguin

    Knight

  • Members
  • 729 posts

Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:23 AM

and then split apart if someone's heart is not pure?


It splits apart if someone's heart is not balanced in wisdom, courage and power.

#75 Nevermind

Nevermind

    Building consensus...

  • Members
  • 9,417 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 29 August 2005 - 08:12 AM

Pure......Triforce-style.

#76 mohammedali

mohammedali

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,047 posts
  • Location:London
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2005 - 09:04 AM

Some very interesting posts here. I had to sit and read all of this before posting, so instead of responding to any one person, I'll just put forward a general post (slightly geared towards Fyxes though, as she started the thread).

The Light Force does seem to have some similarities to the Triforce. May of these have already been mentioned. However, it is impossible to tell if there is a connection, and what that connection is. Theorising is good though, so let's get on.

Theory 1: The Light Force is the Triforce in its entirity
This might explain something else about the Triforce that I have suspected for a long time. This being that the Triforce can be inherited without knowing. I believe that in aLttP, Link has the ToC and that this rejoins with the other 2 pieces after he beats Ganon. This would make sence because Link always needs a piece of Triforce before confronting Ganon, and this way he has it. It is possible that Link does not know he has the ToC, just like Zelda does not know that she has the Triforce in its entiriry. However, the Light Force looks like one piece and not three.

Theory 2: The Light Force is the Triforce of Wisdom
Similar to above, but this time, the problem is why the ToW was in the Picori Realm. Even if we assume this is the same as the SR, we still have to remember that the Triforce piece placements doesn't work with any other game. Also, we know that part of Triforce has no power unless full. Link once collected fragments of the ToW, but could only face Ganon when it was full.

Theory 3: The Light Force is the Triforce of ?????
Perhaps there is another Triforce. This would certainly fit with the whole '4' theme the Zelda games have recently had. For those that are thinking 'Triforce = 3', you're right - but not nesessarily about them being 3 pieces. In LoZ there were only 2 pieces, but it was still called the Triforce. The reason seems to be because of the number of sides / shape of the object rather than the number of pieces. It's a Triangle of Force = Triforce. Hence there is every possibility that there is a forth piece that was previously not mentioned. However, this doesn't fit in well with any of the origin theories.

Theory 4: The Light Force is related to the Triforce, but the a Triforce itself.
This is the least controversial theory, partly because it's very ambiguous. I think the Light Force is something that is itimately linked to the Triforce but not actually a piece. I'm not going to say much more as it's all going to be speculation.

Theory 5: The Light Force has nothing to do with the Triforce.
I find this hard to believe with all the similarities.

Conclusion: My personal opinion is that Capcom were testing the water to see if introducing another Triforce would be good or bad. The Triforce of Enlightenment or something crazy. Anyway, I don't think we have enough information to make a sound judgement. I'll have a rumage around in the Text Dump when I get a chance. For now, feel free to continue the debate.

Mohammed Ali

#77 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 29 August 2005 - 10:57 AM

I'd like to question the idea that only having shards of a Triforce piece yeilds the bearer no power. We don't know this. Why should they give absolutely no power? Clearly their full power is not realised until it's complete, but having shards may still weild power. This goes back to the original Zelda, where collecting a piece of the ToW restores all of Link's health.

While this is mostly a gameplay element, the only instance we actually witness the ToC giving Link power in OoT is when it restores all his health just before facing Ganondorf. So just because we don't see Link getting stronger doesn't mean it's having no effect.

The other difference is that Vaati was actually absorbing the Light Force into himself in it's purest form.

I don't think the Minish world is the Sacred Realm, but there's no reason why they could not of aquired the Triforce or a piece of the Triforce at some point during Hyrule history.

#78 Hero of Slime

Hero of Slime

    Zol

  • Members
  • 1,778 posts
  • Location:Seattle
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2005 - 12:46 PM

This goes back to the original Zelda, where collecting a piece of the ToW restores all of Link's health.

Does Link's health and/or magic get restored when he gets a piece of the Triforce of courage in TWW?

#79 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 29 August 2005 - 01:32 PM

Not my memory, but it does in TLoZ. What's your point?

#80 Hero of Slime

Hero of Slime

    Zol

  • Members
  • 1,778 posts
  • Location:Seattle
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2005 - 01:41 PM

Link always gets his hearts restored from completing a dungeon, but if the Triforce of Courage part also heals Link than you would have more evidence that the Triforce parts have healing powers.

#81 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 29 August 2005 - 02:28 PM

It's the Heart Containers that usually heal his health, but not in TLoZ. They could of made it the Heart Container that healed him but they decided to let the ToC shards do that.

Why would a piece of the ToC, a shard of an object that contains the powers of the gods themselves, have absolutely no magical strength whatsoever? Nobody thinks that the Triforce on it's own holds power while the individual pieces contain no power on their own, because they do. Why should each individual piece be any different?

#82 MikePetersSucks

MikePetersSucks

    Actual Japanese Person

  • ZL Staff
  • 4,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2005 - 05:05 PM

I can believe that a Triforce shard has some rudimentry divine power, but to become a godlike entity like Vaati? Screw it.

Okay, so why make it grant wishes then, and then split apart if someone's heart is not pure? Other than to set the scene for an epic story.

Was the reasoning behind the Triforce this vague on purpose, or is this just a 'no one will think about it THAT much' kinda thing?


Why not? Why can't it grant wishes? It'd be a waste to invest so much of their power into creating it if it didn't DO anything. And if it couldn't do something that benefited everyone, then it doesn't inspire and aide the people, now does it? As for that balanced heart thing, well...Duh. They don't want their power being abused. As for your last question, probably a bit of both.

#83 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 29 August 2005 - 05:55 PM

You're forgetting Vaati already had the power of the 'Minish Cap', and most of the Light Force (not all, but most of it).

Ganondorf changed into a devastating demon with just the power of one Triforce piece. If Vaati had a cap that made your thoughts reality, coupled with the pure energy of most of the Triforce of Wisdom, then I don't see why he can't become a massively powerful being.

And this is ignoring the possiblity that the Light Force is the entire Triforce.

#84 Vazor

Vazor

    Pancake Pirate

  • Members
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 29 August 2005 - 05:58 PM

Just one point: Vaati never had the Minish Cap. He had the Wishing Hat. Ezlo was the Minish Cap.

#85 Fyxe

Fyxe

    hwhere is fyxckz adn her big boobs/>?

  • Members
  • 7,132 posts
  • Location:England

Posted 29 August 2005 - 05:59 PM

Except it's never called 'Wishing Hat', while Elzo is called Elzo.

#86 Vazor

Vazor

    Pancake Pirate

  • Members
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:07 PM

...Except that it was called the Wishing Hat, and that Ezlo is a cap that used to be a Minish.

#87 Octorok

Octorok

    Hott!

  • Members
  • 1,305 posts
  • Location:Snohomish, WA

Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:09 PM

Plus, I don't think that they would name a game after the hint-giving bird that Link wears on his head. That'd be like naming OoT Navi.

#88 Vazor

Vazor

    Pancake Pirate

  • Members
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:15 PM

Who knows, they've named games after bad puns before (A Link To The Past, anyone?).

#89 Hero of Slime

Hero of Slime

    Zol

  • Members
  • 1,778 posts
  • Location:Seattle
  • Gender:Male

Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:15 PM

The "wishing hat" is a cap that was made by the Minish. It could be the Minish Cap.

#90 Vazor

Vazor

    Pancake Pirate

  • Members
  • 3,366 posts

Posted 29 August 2005 - 06:21 PM

Theoretically, yes. But you technically have a Minish Cap the whole game, so that just makes more sense to me than naming it after the tool of the enemy. Theoretically, though, it could be either. My point is that the Wishing Hat was never called the Minish Cap. Whenever they've included the name of an item in the title, it's always been specifically spelled out in the game (OoT, WW, MM).




Copyright © 2022 Zelda Legends