302 replies to this topic

[Fatgoron]

Why not?  The Triforce is not the be all and end all of strengths.  It is not unstoppable.  Why, the Master Sword itself was made precisely to repulse the power of the Triforce, and it does so.  The Silver Arrows kill Ganon despite him being the master of the Triforce.  I don't know where this concept came from that the Triforce grants immortality or unstoppable power.

The Triforce should be the ultimate power, since it gives a person access to the power of the Gods, that they might grant any wish that person might make. Since a natural prerequisite of godhood is omnipotence, the triforce should be giving one who wields it access to omnipotence.
At the very least, the ability to grant any wish should mean the wielder has access to some maximally powerful force.

The demon form of Ganon is different from the human form Ganondorf.  Ganondorf created his demonic Ganon form using the Triforce of Power.  That's a fact.  Whenever Ganon is reborn in both the Oracle games, FSA, AoL or presumably before he gets the ToP in TLoZ, it is Ganon being reborn, not Ganondorf (although FSA implies Ganondorf resumed his demonic form via the trident).  Once Ganon's form has already been created, presumably he can be reborn in this demonic form without the ToP being needed.  It was originally created with the ToP, but it's continued existence doesn't necessarily require it.

I won't argue against that, but I still think it's unreasonable that Ganon should have access to the powers bestowed by the ToP while it is not in his posession.

Ganon's trident doesn't look very different from that at all.



Clearly they were intended as the same type of weapon.

I'm going to pretend you didn't presume to know the intentions of the designers.

Isn't that enough?  The Triforce is saying that Ganon was using the Triforce simply by existing, and that upon his death now the Triforce needs a new master, meaning Ganon owned it and therefore he was using it.

It doesn't sound that obvious to me. "The Triforce is waiting for a new master" is seperated in a sentence seperate from the statement that Ganon has died, which sounds to me like the two statements do not share a causal relationship.

Except that the Triforce itself SAID so, so it must be so.  Maybe it depends on the wish.  Maybe it depends on the user.  Whatever the case, Ganon had to put some effort in to make his wish completely true.

I agree that in that case he did have work to do, since his power was limited by the sages' seal. However, I don't think that neccessarily had anything to do with a limitation on the Triforce's power, save for its inability to affect things outside the sacred realm while the seal was in place.

Debating the properties of a MAGIC TRIANGLE OF THE GODS is pointless.  The properties aren't set out in stone.  We're never told exactly how the Triforce works.  There's no major inconsistencies going on with the Triforce, other than ones that arise from people making incorrect assumptions, such as the idea that the Triforce is an unstoppable force.  It clearly is not, and they never said it was.

When they call something the "power of the gods" that will grant any wish, they are infering that it is a maximally powerful force.

[Showsni]

Gods aren't necessarily omnipotent, Fatgoron. We're not told much about the goddesses' powers except that they created the world Hyrule is in, left the triforce behind and can talk to Hylians due to their large ears.

We are told that the triforce's expression of a wish depends upon how strong the maker of that wish wishes it, or something like that. Ganon might not have wished very hard. And if Ganon's wish was for world domination, then the triforce won't grant him other powers - except for those bestowed by the individual pieces.

[Tri-Enforcer]

I would like to start off saying that the Light force is really The Spirit of the Triforce or the Essence of the Triforce if you would like to call it that.
If you don't beleave me then go play the game in Japan because thats what the Light force is called in Japan.

Really it's the spirit of the Triforce...as said in the Japanese version? That's interesting. Well I'd be willing to go with that explanation considering the American version doesn't really say what's the source of the light force, other than it being brought to Hyrule by the Minish people.

[Fatgoron]

If we're going by the strict definition of a god, then being omnipotent becomes a prerequisite. To be a god, one must be at least maximally powerful within the limitations of the universe they exist in.

The three goddesses created an entire world, from scratch.
That's going to require the ability to conjure matter and energy from nothing, assuming there isn't a source of matter or energy that they used, and we we merely not informed of.
They've basically defied our conventional laws of physics.

Obviously, Hyrule isn't bound by quite the same rules as our world, but they still don't go around creating mass and energy without sufficient magical power to do so. Everything comes from somewhere, and at the source of everything, we have the three golden goddesses, according to Hylian lore.

If the Triforce is serving someone for any length of time longer than it takes for their wish to be granted, then it becomes redundant if it doesn't grant any power beyond that.
If it doesn't grant powers beyond maintaining a wish, then the only reason to hold onto it is to to prevent someone else from negating that wish with one of their own.
If that were the case, one would be better off relinquishing the Triforce, then regaining it over and over again.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I did a lot of searching on this topic and then it hit me that maybe the Japanese version had something more on the light force then are version.
(NOA has had a past record of changing names) And after going over it, I was right and the name was different.

So what is this different name you speak of?

[Nevermind]

In OoT, doesn't it say the goddesses created Hyrule, not the entire world?

Fatgoron, think of the Triforce like a genie's lamp. You make a wish, and it is granted. Where the power originally comes from to grant that wish, and how far it extends, is unknown.
How would one test the limit of the Triforce? Make the ultimate wish? What is the ultimate wish? Each ultimate wish would vary from person to person, wouldn't you say? So how is it possible to know how much power it can grant?

[Crazy Penguin]

I did a lot of searching on this topic and then it hit me that maybe the Japanese version had something more on the light force then are version.  
(NOA has had a past record of changing names) And after going over it, I was right and the name was different.

I'd still like a screenshot of that.

[MikePetersSucks]

I'd like any sort of proof other than "I have my sources." Show us where you got the information, a screenshot, or hell, give us the damn name, first of all. This is gigantic.

[coinilius]

.Hero of Time said earlier in this topic, and in another, that he translated the name of the Light Force in the Japanese version as 'spirit of the triforce.'

Can you provide a screenshot of where they use this title, .Hero of Time, perhaps with it clearly indicated where the term is used so that we can all see it and get some other opinions on what it means?

[Fatgoron]

Fatgoron, think of the Triforce like a genie's lamp. You make a wish, and it is granted. Where the power originally comes from to grant that wish, and how far it extends, is unknown.
How would one test the limit of the Triforce? Make the ultimate wish? What is the ultimate wish? Each ultimate wish would vary from person to person, wouldn't you say? So how is it possible to know how much power it can grant?

The games state that the power is derived from the Gods/Goddesses responsible for the creation of the world, and the best information we have about the Triforce's power suggest it has limitless potential. Eg: will grant any wish, power of the gods, etc.

Testing its limits would be easy. Just wish to become omnipotent, if it can grant you that, it'll grant you anything.

[Nevermind]

I meant the power of the gods. Their power is unknown >.>


What about wishing it to destroy itself? Would it have the power to negate it's own power?

[mohammedali]

GANON HAD THE WHOLE TRIFORCE TO HIMSELF IN ALTTP UP UNTIL THE VERY END WHEN HE WAS DEFEATED.
 
These quotes clearly show that the Triforce was not split at any point in LTTP.  That also shows that the Trifrorce was whole and in Ganon's control up until the very end when he was defeated.  Ignoring this...and bending explanations to say that the Triforce was split at some point in LTTP is utter denial.

The following quotes seem to be the only 'proof' available as to why Ganon would have the whole Triforce, dispite it not only being illogical, but also going against the established canon of what happens when one has the Triforce. I will go through them and show how they prove very little.

Tree: "You're new here, aren't you?
Did you come here looking for
the Power of Gold?
Well, you're too late. It will
obey only the first person who
touches it.
The man who last claimed the
Power of Gold wished for this
world. It reflects his heart."

If you assume that the Power of Gold is the whole Triforce, it would suggest that Ganon has the whole Triforce since his first wish. This is an absolute lie. It's not possible as we see in OoT.
Also note that Golden Power is a term used in WW when talking about the power that Ganon had in OoT. Hence Power of Gold can be argued to be the same thing. i.e. Power of Gold doesn't have to equal whole Triforce (and in WW this is proven). Infact Power of Gold suggests Triforce of Power more than anything else.

Maiden: "If you defeat Ganon, this
world will vanish, and the
Triforce will wait
for a new master.
I believe in you...
Good luck!"

I agree. If Ganon is defeated, the Evil Realm *would* vanish. Ganon being in the SR is the enitre reason it turned evil. Getting rid of him would surely sort things out.

Ganon: "But I will never give you the
Triforce. I will destroy you
and make my wish to conquer
both Light and Dark Worlds
come true without delay."

Simple. He's talking of the Triforce of Power. The name Triforce applies to a single piece or all 3.

Triforce: "Ganon's wish was to conquer
the world. That wish changed
the Golden Land into
the Dark World.
After building up his power,
Ganon planned to go on to the
Light World to fulfill his wish.
The Triforce is waiting for a
new master. Its Golden Power is
in your hands..."

Nothing wrong with that passage. Fact is, we know that the Triforce split. We also know that the Dark World was created in OoT. There's no way you can argue that Ganon had the Triforce in entirity from OoT to aLttP as we see it split. These quotes which you insist are saying he has the whole Triforce will then also suggest he had the whole Triforce from the start. That's just wrong. Hence, the quotes are either about only 1 piece, or incorrect. You choose which you want to believe.

Mohammed Ali

[mohammedali]

Just had a thought which I thought was quite cool and wanted to share. It's about everyone's favourate / most hated / whatever story - AoL BS...

The idea I wanted to bring forward was from something in TMC. Now, before I start, this is just a thought - not a theory. There isn't concrete proof for this, just something I thought makes sence and would be cool if true.

In TMC we are told the Light Force exists in each girl of the family. This seems really similar to the whole Zelda naming tradition, and with Zelda being called Zelda in TMC, it fits in. My idea is that when the King was said to have given Zelda knowledge about the Triforce, he was actually passing to her the Light Force, which would then pass to all girls of their line. This would fit with what was said before about the Light Force being prophetic powers and knowledge of the Triforce. Any views?

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

(Mohammed Ali)Fact is, we know that the Triforce split. We also know that the Dark World was created in OoT. There's no way you can argue that Ganon had the Triforce in entirity from OoT to aLttP as we see it split.

I'm not one of those people who place OOT before LTTP nor do I believe OOT is the LTTP BS. So that explanation wouldn't apply to me.

If you assume that the Power of Gold is the whole Triforce, it would suggest that Ganon has the whole Triforce since his first wish. This is an absolute lie. It's not possible as we see in OoT.

How is that a lie when the game mentions it? Forget about OOT. This is LTTP--not OOT! What happens in OOT does not necessarily have to be the rules in LTTP. For example--in OOT in order for you to retrieve the Master Sword (MS), you had to retrieve the 3 Sacred Stones. However in LTTP, you have to retrieve the 3 Pendants to get it.

Also, the quotes about the Triforce are still the same in the LTTP remake on GBA--which came out after OOT. If Nintendo wanted to make it clear about the status of the Triforce (a vital part of the game I might add) then they would've edited much of those quotes as they did others. Once again your above explanation wouldn't apply to my theory, since I don't believe OOT is the LTTP BS.

He's talking of the Triforce of Power. The name Triforce applies to a single piece or all 3.

That's your assumption. Where the heck is the mark of the Triforce of Courage on Link in LTTP? Don't say it's due to graphical reasons, cuz there was even a remake of the game created on GBA. You wanna know why he doesn't have the mark? For the same reason he didn't have any mark in LoZ--he did not possesse the ToC nor was he of age. But wait...why did Link have the mark in OOT and TWW as a kid not of age? Because they actually ended up possessing the Triforce of Courage later in those games.

Also, tell me why in other Zelda game--involving a split Triforce-- the Triforce pieces are mentioned seperatley? i.e. ToC, ToP, ToW. In LTTP those pieces are not mentioned by the individual names. All that is said is 'Triforce' or Golden Power--not Triforce of 'this' or Golden Power of 'that'. In Oracles we see a united Triforce--and it's only mentioned as the 'Triforce'--just like in LTTP.

Thus the Triforce is whole throughout LTTP. The Triforce is also in Ganon's possession throughout LTTP up until the very end when Link defeats him.

[mohammedali]

I'm not one of those people who place OOT before LTTP nor do I believe OOT is the LTTP BS. So that explanation wouldn't apply to me.

That's fair enough. If you don't consider OoT to be aLttP Bs, then much of this will be irrelevant for you because with your theory it could be either full or in part. There is no evidence to confirm either.

How is that a lie when the game mentions it? Forget about OOT. This is LTTP--not OOT! What happens in OOT does not necessarily have to be the rules in LTTP. For example--in OOT in order for you to retrieve the Master Sword (MS), you had to retrieve the 3 Sacred Stones. However in LTTP, you have to retrieve the 3 Pendants to get it.

The Sacred Stones can be changed into Pendants, that's not a continuity issue that we need to worry about. As for the 'lie', reread what I said... *if* you assume the Power of Gold is the whole Triforce *then* the quote would be a lie, hence it must be talking about the Triforce in part which is a perfectly reasonable way to use the term "Power of Gold" or "Golden Power" (as seen in WW) - see the logic? I agree that the quotes of aLttP shouldn't be thrown away to maintain the connection to OoT. Infact, I'm using the fact the quotes are canon to prove my point to anyone who believes OoT is aLttP BS.

Also, the quotes about the Triforce are still the same in the LTTP remake on GBA--which came out after OOT. If Nintendo wanted to make it clear about the status of the Triforce (a vital part of the game I might add) then they would've edited much of those quotes as they did others. Once again your above explanation wouldn't apply to my theory, since I don't believe OOT is the LTTP BS.

The game doesn't contradict a connection between OoT and aLttP so there is no reason to retcon the text that much. As for the part that was changed in the game, notice that it DOES link straight to OoT. The fact that Wise Men was replaced by Sages should be proof enough to anyone who is open to clear connection. That was the only real contradiction that existed before (and only in the US version), and that has now been sorted out.

That's your assumption. Where the heck is the mark of the Triforce of Courage on Link in LTTP? Don't say it's due to graphical reasons, cuz there was even a remake of the game created on GBA. You wanna know why he doesn't have the mark? For the same reason he didn't have any mark in LoZ--he did not possesse the ToC nor was he of age. But wait...why did Link have the mark in OOT and TWW as a kid not of age? Because they actually ended up possessing the Triforce of Courage later in those games.

You're right, it is my assumption that Link has the ToC. I never meant to claim any different. However, I say that if you accept that OoT is aLttP BS, then Ganon could not have had the whole Triforce in his possession. I also say, that if Ganon had some of the Triforce (which is the only alternative meaning to Triforce) instead of all of it, the it would not only make sence for Link to have some of the Triforce as well, but it would be necessary given that the whole Triforce is combined in the room behind Ganon. Hence, either Ganon had 2 pieces, and Link had 1. Or Ganon and Link had none, and the Triforce was waiting outback.

As for the Triforce on his hand. Link doesn't have the Triforce on his had all the time in OoT, nor in WW. It's only at certain times if I recall correctly. I also fail to see how you can't accpet that a hand made of approx 4 pixels could possibly show a Triforce on there - not that it even needs to as the Triforce is not always shown. Hell, we've seen games where Link doesn't even know he HAS the Triforce, let alone seeing it on his hand.

Also, tell me why in other Zelda game--involving a split Triforce-- the Triforce pieces are mentioned seperatley? i.e. ToC, ToP, ToW. In LTTP those pieces are not mentioned by the individual names. All that is said is 'Triforce' or Golden Power--not Triforce of 'this' or Golden Power of 'that'. In Oracles we see a united Triforce--and it's only mentioned as the 'Triforce'--just like in LTTP.

That's like me asking you to tell me why sometimes 3 totally different guys are called John, and other times they are called John Smith, John Jackson and John Archer. Fact is, in WW we see that Golden Power is a term used for only 1 piece - hence its a valid way of interperating similar terms in other games.

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

(First line in TWW backstory)Long ago, there existed a kingdom where
a golden power lay hidden.

Since you love referencing TWW so much: Here's where 'golden power' is mentioned in TWW. As we know this is referencing to OOT. As we know in OOT, the Triforce (the whole thing--since I gotta be technical here) was hidden at first. That line above is referring to the whole Triforce before Ganon found it in OOT. That's a good example of the term 'golden power' a.k.a 'Triforce' being used in referring to the whole Triforce. Also in TWW Ganon refers to his piece as the 'Triforce of Power'--not 'Triforce' by itself.

As for that whole '3 Johns' example--BS! That is just so ridiculous that I can't even say anything about that example. Oh hold it---I can say something about it--it's a good bail out move. It's very very canon that in Zelda games involving a split Triforce, the pieces are named individually when they're not united. We see this---there's no denying it.

[mohammedali]

Since you love referencing TWW so much: Here's where 'golden power' is mentioned in TWW.  As we know this is referencing to OOT.  As we know in OOT, the Triforce (the whole thing--since I gotta be technical here) was hidden at first.  That line above is referring to the whole Triforce before Ganon found it in OOT.  That's a good example of the term 'golden power' a.k.a 'Triforce' being used in referring to the whole Triforce.  Also in TWW Ganon refers to his piece as the 'Triforce of Power'--not 'Triforce' by itself.

You're right. The first mention of 'Golden Power' does indeed relate to the whole Triforce. The picture on that page even shows all 3 pieces. However, look at the next mention.

BOOKLET: "But one day, a man of great evil found the golden power and took it for himself... With its strength at his command, he spread darkness across the kingdom."

Now you tell me, did Ganon take the whole Triforce in OoT? Did he use the whole Triforce to spread darkness in Hyrule? No. No he didn't. Also note that on this page the picture shows only 1 piece. Hence, as I said before, it can mean either the whole thing or a single piece. That's the proof that the term is ambiguous. Now, if you take OoT to be aLttP BS as well, then to make it the quotes consistant with one another we have to assume that Ganon didn't have the whole Triforce. In your case, this isn't true as you don't believe that OoT is aLttP BS. There isn't really that much to it, but I understand the point your making.

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

Going back to your favorite title TWW, you'll need to explain how the Triforce is split by the time of LTTP, based off of the TWW's ending. Also how did Ganon get back into the the Dark World with the Triforce of Power in his possession? You seemed to have forgotten that TWW would have to go in between OOT and LTTP since you believe OOT is LTTP's BS. From the way you're describing things, it seems as if the Triforce being split in LTTP is due to the events of OOT--without taking into account that another event happened in between the two which involved the Triforce.

All I know is what I see. What I've seen in Zelda games and what you've seen in relevant Zelda games is canon. In games involving a split Trifrorce we usually see the individual pieces isolated from one another, and they're each called by their individual names. This is even evident in the NES games which came out before LTTP. However in LTTP, we don't see the pieces isolated from one another, nor are the pieces called by their respective names. If Nintendo meant for the Triforce to be split during LTTP, then the creators would've shown this and said this. Why is that all the other Zelda games, involving a split Triforce, shows and tells of a split, but LTTP does not? It's because their is no split Triforce in LTTP.

[mohammedali]

Going back to your favorite title TWW, you'll need to explain how the Triforce is split by the time of LTTP, based off of the TWW's ending.  Also how did Ganon get back into the the Dark World with the Triforce of Power in his possession?  You seemed to have forgotten that TWW would have to go in between OOT and LTTP since you believe OOT is LTTP's BS.  From the way you're describing things, it seems as if the Triforce being split in LTTP is due to the events of OOT--without taking into account that another event happened in between the two which involved the Triforce.

lol. WW isn't my fav title. I was just making a point using the WW booklet. As for resolving WW and aLttP place, it's not an issue. I believe there was a timeline split after OoT leading to these 2 different games. I haven't forgotten about the placing. However, this is all a completely different issue to what we were talking about.

All I know is what I see.  What I've seen in Zelda games and what you've seen in relevant Zelda games is canon.  In games involving a split Trifrorce we usually see the individual pieces isolated from one another, and they're each called by their individual names.  This is even evident in the NES games which came out before LTTP.  However in LTTP, we don't see the pieces isolated from one another, nor are the pieces called by their respective names.  If Nintendo meant for the Triforce to be split during LTTP, then the creators would've shown this and said this.  Why is that all the other Zelda games, involving a split Triforce, shows and tells of a split, but LTTP does not?  It's because their is no split Triforce in LTTP.

I still disagree. As I said before, if you take OoT to be aLttP BS then Ganon could not of had the whole Triforce and so it must have only been in part.
As for the what the creators intentions were, it's irrelevant. I could argue that the creators only intended for there to be 2 Triforce pieces during LoZ. There is no indication that there would be a 3rd, but to bring in a 3rd piece doesn't contradict LoZ. Similarly, you can say that they intended to have Ganon with the whole thing, but if he didn't it still doesn't contradict the ingame text. In fact, it goes further, as by saying OoT is aLttP BS (which we have quotes for), implies that Ganon could not have had the whole Triforce.

In conclusion, if you accept OoT to be aLttP BS, then you should accept that Ganon could not have the whole Triforce from the quotes alone. If you don't think OoT and aLttP share that link, then Ganon could have any number of pieces.

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

A splitter, huh? I'm a splitter as well, but lately I've been toying and focusing on a single timeline.

Without considering a split timeline and assuming that OOT is the LTTP BS. You would still have to place TWW in between the two games. You'd still have a hard time explaining how Ganon got the Triforce (whole) or even just a single part of it. Especially if you consider that Ganon had no piece what so ever at the end of TWW. Then you'll have to explain how Ganon ended up back in the Dark World with a piece of the Triforce or even the whole thing. You could explain some other event as to how things end up that way by the time of LTTP, but that event wouldn't be OOT now would it? It'll be the IW or something like that..but it wouldn't be OOT. However, I don't believe OOT is the the LTTP BS, and you believe that there's a split. So those are questions that would have to figured out amongst single timeliners who believe OOT is the LTTP BS.

As for the what the creators intentions were, it's irrelevant. I could argue that the creators only intended for there to be 2 Triforce pieces during LoZ. There is no indication that there would be a 3rd, but to bring in a 3rd piece doesn't contradict LoZ. Similarly, you can say that they intended to have Ganon with the whole thing, but if he didn't it still doesn't contradict the ingame text. In fact, it goes further, as by saying OoT is aLttP BS (which we have quotes for), implies that Ganon could not have had the whole Triforce.

Well, in subsequent Zelda games there has been 3 pieces. So obviously Nintendo had a huge change of mind since the 1st Zelda. Its pretty clear that Nintendo meant for the Triforce to be whole in LTTP--heck there was even a remake and they still didn't change their mind about the status of the Triforce. You would thinkt hat Nintendo would show or meantion a split Triforce parts in the orginal LTTP and the remake--but they didn't. Why should LTTP be any different from any other game that involved a split Triforce.

Also, if the Triforce is split already, then how did Link end up with ToC at the start? He didn't even do anything to prove himself worthy prior to LTTP and he wasn't of age as well. You have to be one, the other, or both in order to get the ToC. There has not been a Zelda game in which Link didn't have to earn the ToC (as in handed to him on a silver platter). And don't even say Link might've done something before LTTP, because he still had to learn how to use a sword. If you want to say, Link earned the Triforce during LTTP then at what point in that game did he get it? I sure didn't see it! You would think a major victorious emphasis would be placed on earning the ToC!!!

[Showsni]

He didn't earn the ToC in OoT - he just automatically got it when Ganon touched the triforce.

[mohammedali]

Without considering a split timeline and assuming that OOT is the LTTP BS.  You would still have to place TWW in between the two games.  You'd still have a hard time explaining how Ganon got the Triforce (whole) or even just a single part of it.  Especially if you consider that Ganon had no piece what so ever at the end of TWW.  Then you'll have to explain how Ganon ended up back in the Dark World with a piece of the Triforce or even the whole thing.  You could explain some other event as to how things end up that way by the time of LTTP, but that event wouldn't be OOT now would it?  It'll be the IW or something like that..but it wouldn't be OOT.   However, I don't believe OOT is the the LTTP BS, and you believe that there's a split.   So those are questions that would have to figured out amongst single timeliners who believe OOT is the LTTP BS.

True. That's why I say that if you accept that OoT is aLttP BS, then there has to be a timeline split, or atleast a seperate timeline. This is true whether you believe Ganon has the whole Triforce, 2 pieces, 1 piece or no piece.
If there is a single Timeline then it becomes extremely difficult to maintain that OoT is aLttP BS.

Well, in subsequent Zelda games there has been 3 pieces.  So obviously Nintendo had a huge change of mind since the 1st Zelda.  Its pretty clear that Nintendo meant for the Triforce to be whole in LTTP--heck there was even a remake and they still didn't change their mind about the status of the Triforce.  You would thinkt hat Nintendo would show or meantion a split Triforce parts in the orginal LTTP and the remake--but they didn't.  Why should LTTP be any different from any other game that involved a split Triforce.

That's my point. Nintendo obviously look at what they can do without contradicting the current canon, and for Ganon not to have the whole Triforce doesn't contradict the canon. There is nothing that really needs to be changed. Sure, it would have been more clear if they changed some of the quotes - but it doesn't *have* to be changed the way the seven wise men had to be changed.

Also, if the Triforce is split already, then how did Link end up with ToC at the start?  He didn't even do anything to prove himself worthy prior to LTTP and he wasn't of age as well.  You have to be one, the other, or both in order to get the ToC.  There has not been a Zelda game in which Link didn't have to earn the ToC (as in handed to him on a silver platter).  And don't even say Link might've done something before LTTP, because he still had to learn how to use a sword.  If you want to say, Link earned the Triforce during LTTP then at what point in that game did he get it?  I sure didn't see it!  You would think a major victorious emphasis would be placed on earning the ToC!!!

He doesn't earn the Triforce in OoT, and we find out that in some cases the Triforce is passed down in the family - sometimes without the person even knowing about it. There's no reason why Link didn't just happen to have the ToC but never really knew. I suspect something similar was true for Zelda as well, until Ganon takes the ToW from her when 'sacrificing' her.

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

Yes, the ToC was given to Link when it split on Ganon in OOT. However, Link did accomplish feats such as collecting 3 sacred stones and other deeds. So the ToC went to someone who was worthy of it and proven to have shown courage--it sensed the courage within him and knew of his previous feats. If you still consider Link as not having to earn the Triforce in OOT, then at least they let us know and show us that he has it, and puts emphasis on the split Triforce just like any other Zelda games with the split Triforce.

[mohammedali]

Yes, the ToC was given to Link when it split on Ganon in OOT.  However, Link did accomplish feats such as collecting 3 sacred stones and other deeds.  So the ToC went to someone who was worthy of it and proven to have shown courage--it sensed the courage within him and knew of his previous feats.  If you still consider Link as not having to earn the Triforce in OOT, then at least they let us know and show us that he has it, and puts emphasis on the split Triforce just like any other Zelda games with the split Triforce.

There's no reason to believe that Link finding the spiritual stones had any connection to him getting the Triforce. However, even if that was the case, I am suggesting that aLttP Link got the Triforce as part of his heratige. We've seen that the Triforce can be passed down the family tree. We even know this can be done without the person even knowing they have it. In any case, Link has to find 3 pendants in aLttP anyway, so he deserves the ToC.

As for the emphasis aspect, again, let's look at LoZ. There is absolutely no emphasis on the ToC. It is not seen, spoken off or even mentioned in any part of the game or manuel. However, we later find out that it exists during LoZ. This is an obvious example of where just because something is not explicit in a certain game, future games strongly suggest these events happened, or these objects exist. Another example would be using the OoT-aLttP connection. There are many things that aLttP does not mention that OoT goes into. For example, the way the Dark World was formed is not explained much in aLttP, but explained better in OoT. Here we see something that is intrinsic to aLttP that is only explained in a later game. I also forgot to mention, there is evidence in the game text that links OoT as aLttP BS.

Mohammed Ali

[Tri-Enforcer]

As for the emphasis aspect, again, let's look at LoZ. There is absolutely no emphasis on the ToC. It is not seen, spoken off or even mentioned in any part of the game or manuel. However, we later find out that it exists during LoZ.

The ToW and ToP were the only pieces shown or mentioned in LoZ. At that time those were the only pieces we were aware of (at least to us the gamers). The ToC was not in LoZ at al!. The ToC wasn't mentioned or shown until AoL! Although Link had to collect the ToW in LoZ, there was still emphasis on him recovering it and also when he finally recovered all of the ToW. Once again, another example of us being made aware of a certain character having a Triforce part. Where as in LTTP, there was no mention or depiction of Link have a Triforce part (until the end when he had the whole Triforce). However, the only character in LTTP ( before the ending) linked to the Triforce was (in quotes) was Ganon and he had the whole thing to himself.

However, even if that was the case, I am suggesting that aLttP Link got the Triforce as part of his heratige. We've seen that the Triforce can be passed down the family tree. We even know this can be done without the person even knowing they have it.

The only Zelda character that this has happened to was Zelda. As you know there are many quotes and depictions that tell us this about Zelda. On the other hand, we never see a Zelda game in which Link starts off with a Triforce part. He always goes through something before he even gets it.

I also forgot to mention, there is evidence in the game text that links OoT as aLttP BS.

So what!? None of those quotes support your idea that The Triforce is split during LTTP and they don't even support your split timeline. I'm sure I can pull up other quotes that suggest OOT is not the LTTP BS.

[mohammedali]

snip

OK. Let's take this from the top. We know OoT is aLttP BS because in OoT Ganon first touches the Triforce, he is turned into the King of Evil, and the Dark World is created. This is then all recounted in aLttP. Hence, there should be no doubt that they referece the same event as there is no way Ganon became Evil King twice. There is also other evidence such as the fact he was sealed by 7 sages, not to mention quotes from the creators. Fact is, OoT is aLttP BS. To deny this is to go against what the creators obviously intended, simply to make ones timeline work.
Now, using this knowledge, we look at quotes from aLttP. In these quotes they essentially say that Ganon recieved the Triforce (in OoT era), and he has been using it ever since. We know it is not possible for this to be the whole Triforce, as Ganon didn't HAVE the whole Triforce from the begining. Hence, it must be refering to a single piece. Now, this point doesn't effect my timeline whatsoever. My timeline would work whether he had the whole Triforce or not. However, this is what the facts clearly imply, and that is why I am insisting it works like this.
Along with all this evidence, it also makes more sence that Ganon didn't have the whole Triforce, as in many Zelda games, it is all about preventing Ganon from getting the whole Triforce because he would then be unstoppable. We also see Link always has a piece of Triforce when fighting Ganon in other games. It wouldn't make sence if he didn't here. All these facts and intuitive ideas point towards Ganon not having the whole Triforce. i.e. Not only is it not possible from the quotes for him to have it, it's also very illogical if he did.

Mohammed Ali

[Showsni]

OK. Let's take this from the top. We know OoT is aLttP BS because in OoT Ganon first touches the Triforce, he is turned into the King of Evil, and the Dark World is created. This is then all recounted in aLttP. Hence, there should be no doubt that they referece the same event as there is no way Ganon became Evil King twice. There is also other evidence such as the fact he was sealed by 7 sages, not to mention quotes from the creators. Fact is, OoT is aLttP BS. To deny this is to go against what the creators obviously intended, simply to make ones timeline work.

The seven sages were different people in ALttP BS and OoT. There was no hero in ALttP BS. The SR had no locking system on it in ALttP BS, but it did in OoT. The Master Sword wasn't found in ALttP BS, but was in OoT. The knights defeated Ganon's forces in ALttP BS, but were non-extant in OoT. Ganon is leader of a gang of thieves in ALttP BS, and king of the Gerudo in OoT. In ALttP BS, Ganon's followers also enter the SR, and he kills them - in OoT, he enters alone. In ALttP BS Ganon gets the whole triforce, and is sealed without ever leaving the SR again - in OoT, he only gets the ToP, and leaves the SR before he is sealed. The creators have clearly changed their minds about OoT being ALttP BS, or else TWW doesn't work at all. There's no way Ganon becomes evil king twice? Well, there are three places we see it happen - ALttP BS, OoT and FSA. They're definitely not all the same event. Fact is, OoT isn't ALttP BS. To deny this is to go against obvious in game facts, simply to make ones timeline work.

Along with all this evidence, it also makes more sence that Ganon didn't have the whole Triforce, as in many Zelda games, it is all about preventing Ganon from getting the whole Triforce because he would then be unstoppable. We also see Link always has a piece of Triforce when fighting Ganon in other games. It wouldn't make sence if he didn't here. All these facts and intuitive ideas point towards Ganon not having the whole Triforce. i.e. Not only is it not possible from the quotes for him to have it, it's also very illogical if he did.

Mohammed Ali

Link has no triforce, yet fights Ganon, in FSA and Oracles too. And in OoT, him having the triforce doesn't really help him against Ganon - you don't ever use it. Link's courage was already tested before he ever got the ToC. And the triforce doesn't help Link at all in TWW - if anything, it helps Ganon, who has been waiting for Link to assemble it for him and then takes it off him. The only place we ever see the ToC doing anything is in the comics, when it saves Zelda's life, I think.

[mohammedali]

snip

We're never told the Seven Sages were different people. All we have is a picture of a few hands which is an artists impression. If you want to take it as anything more, remember that this is recounting legend. Look at the pictures from WW, do they look like anything that happened in OoT? Link didn't look like that did he? Hence to use that picture to disclaim the obvious links is unjust.
With aLttP not having a hero is implied but not confirmed. Even if we accept it IS confirmed, there are still explinations of how it would work. i.e. OoT can be aLttP BS but not necessarily the IW mentioned in aLttP.
We aren't told about the locking system in aLttP but it doesn't mean there was none.
aLttP says the sages searched for the MS and a hero to weild it. This doesn't mean they didn't know where the MS is, but where both the hero and MS is.
The knights never defeated Ganon's forces. They stalled them to give the sages more time. In OoT, although we don't see any knights we do see the loads of people who are corpses right outside the castle, as if there was a battle there. It's likely that this battle stalled Ganon from taking over completely way before Link was freed.
Ganon is leader of a gang of thieves in ALttP BS who we find out later are the Gerudo in OoT. Also, we don't know what happened when Ganon entered, or if he entered with anyone. All we hear if Ganon's voice, but there is every possibility that he had his tribe with him. In fact it's more likely than him going alone to an unknown world.
We are told that Ganon gets the Golden Power, but this is proven to be another way of saying a piece of Triforce as well as the whole Triforce. Hence he doesn't have to get the whole Triforce. Also, aLttP doesn't exclude the possablility that he came out at some point, and even if it DID, there is still an explination of how OoT can be aLttP BS without the IW and hence without Ganon ever coming out.
The creators obviously haven't changed there minds either. In the rerelease of aLttP, they changed 7 wise men to 7 sages - there's no reason to do that other than to keep in line with OoT.
To claim all the events that happened in OoT happened again just before aLttP seems crazy.
I've gone through EVERY 'inconsistancy' you could find, and it all still works. You on the other hand are doubting so much of the obvious. It's unjust. You have to admit, there's too many links to have them as differnt events.

Link has no triforce, yet fights Ganon, in FSA and Oracles too. And in OoT, him having the triforce doesn't really help him against Ganon - you don't ever use it. Link's courage was already tested before he ever got the ToC. And the triforce doesn't help Link at all in TWW - if anything, it helps Ganon, who has been waiting for Link to assemble it for him and then takes it off him. The only place we ever see the ToC doing anything is in the comics, when it saves Zelda's life, I think.

You're right. He doesn't have any Triforce in FSA, but neither does Ganon. That's my point. Either they both have at least a piece, or neither do. Also, the Triforce doesn't have to show us the powers, it never does in any of the games but we are always told that Link will fail if he doesn't have a piece. Just because you don't see the benefit of the Triforce for Link, it's clear there is one.

Mohammed Ali