182 replies to this topic

[lord-of-shadow]

Why? The only thing people seem to say is that 'they were made by Capcom'.

If we, along with all the other people who think as we do, could explain exactly why they don't feel like Zelda games, we would. But it's not something I can really put my finger on.

See, but that's you then. More than exploring, I was interested in playing the game to let the story unfold. The same with Final Fantasy. That view that you see it from is purely the gamer's view, whereas mine is more of a reader's view.

You misunderstand me. I am not saying that I don't care about the story and whatnot.

Look at it this way... for me and many others, Zelda is just... above every other video game. There is some quality to the series, some essential atmosphere that it alone has, that makes it what it is, that is responsible for making these games that are so much more than every other game out there.

I explain my thoughts on that quality of the series in great detail in this article, but to summarize... I believe that the thing that creates the atmosphere that sets the Zelda series so far above other games is due in large part to the feeling of exploration, the immersion (due in large part to a silent avatar hero, rather then a real character), and, to a much lesser extent, things such as story and music.

I am 100% positive they could make a good movie out of the Zelda franchise, one that owuld sell millions and whatnot. But it would not be a good Zelda movie. It could not possibly have the immersion and sense of exploration that are tied to a game, and therefore it would be a misrepresentation of the Zelda series. And I hate the very idea of it.

[~Light Goddess~]

I do go with you on that. But if they either wrote a new part to the series for film, it could turn out ok.

[Nevermind]

Would you class the cartoon series as 'Zelda'?


What it sounds like you're saying is that they won't work because you won't be able to put yourself into them. Putting yourself into a story, and playing out the story is what makes a game. And Zelda is much more than a game. In my eyes, it is a story (or series of stories) that is (are) told through a game.

If you take yourself out of Zelda, which includes your own control of the character, and the exploration that you do, you are still left with that fantastic story. I see what you're trying to say about the exploration thing, and the atmosphere of it all. But that is because you yourself are inside that story, not just watching it unfold. And therein lies the difference between game and movie. One you help tell the story, and the other the story is being told to you. And so I repeat my previous statement that your view of Zelda, whether you like the story or not, seems to be that of a gamer rather than a viewer, whereas I would class myself more as an audience than a player. Hell, I'd even go so far as to call myself a cinematographer in place of a gamer.

[Fyxe]

Have you ever seen Spirited Away? That's just a quick example of how a animated film can capture the feeling of exploration you're talking about. Another example I would give would be an anime series called Ruin Explorers, or possibly to a lesser extent Slayers.

Made by Nintendo, animated in Japan and done well, a Zelda film would be very possible and could still retain the sense of wonder and 'oh, what's coming next?' factor.

[world_trecker]

Ah... but like I said there must be patience in the eyes of a movie maker. And a wise mind. I have total experience in writing scripts, plus I have wrote more than a thousand pages altogether, filled with an action packed mood. Yes I might be in the fan croud, but what if I am freshly picked from Miyamotos E-Mail site, and approves my idea. But on the other hand, he does want Link to remain a silent character, so thats another factor I have to think about.
:Link>_>:

[Octorok]

Yeah, whether or not a Zelda movie would be good, it doesn't matter, because if they make one, it won't be yours, world_trecker.

[lord-of-shadow]

Lazurukeel, then that is where we differ. I like the Zelda story, but as far as I am concerned, it is completely secondary to other aspects of the series.

Fyxe: Spirited Away is one of my favorite movies, but I don't get any sense of exploration out of it.

[joeymartin64]

...I have wrote more than a thousand pages altogether...

I can't be the only one who sees the irony in that statement.

And, as I've said before, I don't particularly enjoy the idea of a Zelda movie. However, I do think that an anime based on one of the mangas (preferably OoT) does have the potential to be awesome. Personally, I hate the mute, personality-lacking hero idea, but that's just me.

[Nevermind]

Lazurukeel, then that is where we differ. I like the Zelda story, but as far as I am concerned, it is completely secondary to other aspects of the series.

Told you you have a different viewpoint; for me, all games are about the storyline =P

[Fyxe]

Er, while I think a good Zelda movie is possible, I definitely don't take that standpoint.

I watch films and read books for good stories.

ALL games are about storyline? Er... If I followed that attitude, I wouldn't play Super Smash Bros. Melee. Or even Mario, for another thing. That's not an existence worth living.

l-o-s, half of Spirited Away was about exploration. She ends up in this bizarre fantasy world of mystical mysterious beings and she just spends her time meeting stranger and stranger creatures, and at the end she takes that weird train journey and all that... It's got the sense of wonderment at a crazy and unique world down very well.

[Nevermind]

Ok, well maybe not ALL games. I do enjoy a bit of mindless smiting. But hell, even Tekken gets me hooked with its storyline.

[SteveT]

Why? The only thing people seem to say is that 'they were made by Capcom'.

As has been said, it's exceptionally hard to explain. It's not BECAUSE they were made by Capcom that they didn't feel like Zelda games. It's that Capcom didn't seem to, at that point, know how to make the games feel right. They fully redeemed themselves with Minish Cap (the last major game in the series). That was a game where I spent a lot of time avoiding the main quest, just because it was so fun to explore the world.

And SteveT, Wind Waker was latest major game in the series.

*ahem* Minish Cap

You said Link is just an avatar. He's not.

Way to develop your point.

The whole of the in-game characterization of Link in WW is this: He's a spasmotic , expressive kid who really loves his family.

Now, think of a major segment of the demographic projected to buy Wind Waker. Seems to me that Nintendo just did the young gamers a favor and put a bit of their personality into Link for them.

[Fyxe]

Look, Link in TWW has more personality in his little finger than, say, Crono has in the whole of Chrono Trigger. He's not *just* a bleedin' avatar. I don't NEED to develop my point, anyone could see that just from the early sequences alone, let alone the finale.

As much as I love TMC, I'm still not certain it's a 'major' game in the same way ALttP, OoT and TWW are. It feels more like Majora's Mask to me, but that's not a bad thing. I prefered MM to OoT.

[Alakhriveion]

Look, Link in TWW has more personality in his little finger than, say, Crono has in the whole of Chrono Trigger. He's not *just* a bleedin' avatar. I don't NEED to develop my point, anyone with half a brain cell could see that just from the early sequences alone, let alone the finale.

We are calming down now, comrade.

[Fyxe]

Alright, alright, but he suggested I was being something on the lines of a doofus... Yeesk.

Plus I don't like Crono.

[SteveT]

He's not *just* a bleedin' avatar. I don't NEED to develop my point, anyone could see that just from the early sequences alone, let alone the finale.

You really shouldn't say things like that. It only encourages me.

No, he's not just a bleedin' avatar. He's about 90% avatar. The closest Link has come, but still a far cry from being a developed character. Not movie star material.

Anyone with half a brain cell can see that.

Tee-hee

[Fyxe]

I never said he was movie star material or a particularly developed character. I just said he was more than just an avatar.

Anyone who could READ could see that.

Haw haw.

[joeymartin64]

Actually, Crono has a few lines in one of the endings, when he gets fed up with Lucca and Marle. Plus, he's a tad more developed in Chrono Cross... but the point remains.

To the naysayers: yeah, they'd have to give Link a personality. So what? If it doesn't suit you, ignore it. Hell, they gave him a personality in the cartoon and the mangas. A movie taking that liberty would hardly be new.

The reason I'm hesitant to support a Zelda movie (other than what I mentioned before) is that they'd probably do a stunningly terrible job of it. Remember the Super Mario Bros. movie? Gyeah.

[Nevermind]

Yeah definately. If they made it, they'd be pretty much guaranteed to slaughter. My argument was that an awesome Zelda movie was possible......you'd just have to get the right person to make it. Good luck doing that.

[SteveT]

I never said he was movie star material or a particularly developed character. I just said he was more than just an avatar.

Anyone who could get the point wouldn't have bothered with such an argument, given the context.

Ho ho!

The reason I'm hesitant to support a Zelda movie (other than what I mentioned before) is that they'd probably do a stunningly terrible job of it. Remember the Super Mario Bros. movie? Gyeah.

Because Mario's another avatar.

[joeymartin64]

It didn't just develop the character(s), though. It completely threw everything "Mario" out the window. It was as though the whole movie was just some other movie with Mario-based names pasted all over it. Kinda like O the Fortunate, except that it (SMB) had real actors in it and got released and stuff.

EDIT: And in case I'm not getting stuff quite right about the SMB movie, that's because I'm only going by what I've seen of it, which is roughly half of it, if even that. Still, from what I remember, and from what I've heard, I dare say my point remains valid.

[SteveT]

Right, my theory is that they realized that a Mario game didn't have the right elements (ie characters and a strong story) to make a movie. So they ignored the source material as much as possible.

A Zelda game would have the same problem. Link has few, if any, discernable character traits, and the plot is pretty loose--it only exists to give the exploration context. There's too many gaps to fill, and the only way to do that is to throw the games out the window.

(And you're absolutely right about Mario, although I do like how they snuck so many references to the games in. The only redeeming grace of hte movie.)

[joeymartin64]

Not necessarily. Depending on who's in charge, it is possible to base a non-interactive form of media on Zelda, and to have it not suck. The mangas were very good, which is why I'd like to see an anime based on one of them (preferably OoT's) over any other type of movie, which would be more apt to take more liberties, and thereby screw everything to hell.

[Nevermind]

Strong, silent, sullen, introverted character. That's what I see.

[Octorok]

it is possible to base a non-interactive form of media on Zelda, and to have it not suck

Unfortunately, not sucking isn't super rockin'.

Also, the Mario movie sucked because it was based on a platform game.

[joeymartin64]

Strong, silent, sullen, introverted character. That's what I see.

Perhaps. But, as has been stated, everyone is entitled (and probably has) their own view of Link's personality. Hell, maybe a different one for each different Link. So one of the main anti-movie points is that the silver screen incarnation of Link would be inconsistent with most peoples' view of the hero. However, like I said before, what harm? They can just ignore it the same way they ignore the cartoons and such.

And by "have it not suck" I mean "have it be good." It's possible. Unlikely perhaps, but possible.

[lord-of-shadow]

l-o-s, half of Spirited Away was about exploration. She ends up in this bizarre fantasy world of mystical mysterious beings and she just spends her time meeting stranger and stranger creatures, and at the end she takes that weird train journey and all that... It's got the sense of wonderment at a crazy and unique world down very well.

No, Spirited Away was not about the same sort of exploration that we see in Zelda. In Zelda it's all about exploring the world. Spirited Away was all about the girl exploring herself, and her personal growths and strengths during her ordeal. Link is a blank avatar, he's never had any of the same sort of internal growth or self-discoveries that whats-her-face goes through.

To the naysayers: yeah, they'd have to give Link a personality. So what? If it doesn't suit you, ignore it. Hell, they gave him a personality in the cartoon and the mangas. A movie taking that liberty would hardly be new.

I didn't much care for it then, why would I care for it now? I like the mangas for their art. As standalone things, they may be all right, but again, they utterly fail to capture what Zelda is.

Strong, silent, sullen, introverted character. That's what I see.

But that is not how most people invision Link's personality. Some, such as yourself apparently, may, but most do not. That's not how I see Link's personality, and a movie with a sullen Link would annoy me more then just about anything else.


And saying we can just ignore something is foolish. We shouldn't have to ignore things, the franchise should just retain it's high quality all across the board.