214 replies to this topic

[Khuffie]

the quarn instructs them to not live with non-muslims (See here http://www.usc.edu/d...mt.html#009.023)

Have you ever read the Qu'ran? From cover to cover? Understood it's meanings? In it's original language, so it's meaning isn't bastardized? I doubt it, since you can't even spell it's name.

Ever heard the notion of taking things in context? Of reading into what things could mean? Of understand what the whole Qu'ran says before taking one short passage out of context?

Nowhere in the Qu'ran does it say to kill the infidels. In fact, it encourages Muslims to live among other people, and sets restrictions on Muslims themselves on what they can and can't do if they're living in a non-Muslim community. And it encourages Muslims living in Muslim communities to treat those who are not Muslim favourably, as they would each other, and even allows for them to live by their own laws and religions.

I mean is a fundementalist regime where the state is the religious organisation.

By this I'm assuming you mean that the country's laws are based on the religion. What's wrong with that? Just because the US and other countries separated church and state, does NOT mean that every country in the world must do so. Kuwait is over 95% Muslim. So is Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Qatar, Bahrain, U.A.E, Yemen and Oman, and a few others that I forgot. Why shouldn't they rule themselves by their religion?

Anyway the point of my argument is that there are muslim groups in the U.K who are incapeable of living with non-muslims

At the same time you're incapable of living with Muslims. Don't you see the irony in this? And give me an example where the vast majority majority of Muslims in England have been 'incapable of living with non-Muslims'. Heck. Don't give me vast majority. Give me 25% of Muslims in England.

najis(impure) as they call us

We call things like urine and dogs najis. Not people.

take part in a holy war or jihad to remove of from this country

Once again, proof. Give me proof that Muslims living in England have taken part of a holy war against non-Muslims. Because last I checked, I don't recall any major battle in England. Why are you claiming complete and utter bullshit? Frankly, if you don't backup your claims with legitimate proof, you're going to be suspended, because you're being extremely racist here.

And please tell me, why the fuck would Muslims, living in a foreign country, take part in a holy war to remove non-Muslims from the country which they are foreign to? Unless they're being politically and culturally harassed by others (oh wait...that's what the BNP is doing, luckily it's not that big of a movement), they have two choices if they don't like living with non-Muslims: suck it up, or go back home.

And to drive the point home: nowhere in the Qu'ran does it justify fighting a war unless it is in self defense.

[arunma]

You guys should go here: http://etext.virginia.edu/koran.html

It's a pretty good translation of the Qu'ran. Hopefully it'll dispell misconceptions about Islam that people get by quote-mining (I understand where you're coming from Khuff, they do it to the Bible too).

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Ok some of my arguegnts may have come across pretty badly last night but it was in the small hours of the morning and I really didnt feel like checking how to spell the quran. However my point is Im not incapable of living with muslims just as most mulims arent incapable of living with us just a small minority who cant live with us because they misinterpret the quran and then decide its there duty to rid our country of non-muslims. You want evidence look at the riots theres been in Bradford you can tell [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of muslims dont like us by the fact they often wander round in large groups looking for trouble. It might just be where I live but here the muslims and non-muslims dont mix and the muslim and non-muslim youth dont get along.

[Khuffie]

You want evidence look at the riots theres been in Bradford

I said evidence. Not "I said this happened", and not "I'm using this isolated incident as proof that this happens everywhere and is applicable to all Muslims".

you can tell [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of muslims dont like us by the fact they often wander round in large groups looking for trouble.

Oh. They don't like you because they have friends who are other Muslims, and they like to hang out together? Ever think that they just think the same way, have the same ideals and like to do the same things?

Large groups looking for trouble? Hmm. Sounds like a gang to me. Are you saying there aren't any British non-Muslim gangs in Britain? Sure as hell sounds like it.

It might just be where I live but here the muslims and non-muslims dont mix and the muslim and non-muslim youth dont get along.

Ever think it could be because of people like you? Or the media that portrays all Muslims as car-bombing suicidal terrorists? Hmm...nope! It's gotta be all those damned Muslims at fault! Let's get rid of them all!

You're just digging yourself deeper.

[Chukchi Husky]

It might just be where I live but here the muslims and non-muslims dont mix and the muslim and non-muslim youth dont get along.

It's where you live probably...

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Yer that might be the case but Im sure its like this in other places aswell.

[Korhend]

Ok some of my arguegnts may have come across pretty badly last night but it was in the small hours of the morning and I really didnt feel like checking how to spell the quran. However my point is Im not incapable of living with muslims just as most mulims arent incapable of living with us just a small minority who cant live with us because they misinterpret the quran and then decide its there duty to rid our country of non-muslims. You want evidence look at the riots theres been in Bradford you can tell [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of muslims dont like us by the fact they often wander round in large groups looking for trouble. It might just be where I live but here the muslims and non-muslims dont mix and the muslim and non-muslim youth dont get along.

Using the same logic, we should kick all the Anglo-Saxons out of England, because you have as you put it "wander round in large groups looking for trouble". Guess we get out Island back.
http://www.bbc.co.uk.../06/gangs.shtml

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Not to the same extent and weve lived here for generations why should we leave.

[Korhend]

Because it wasn't your Island in the first place.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

I never said it was but it was us whove lived here for so long and protected it.

[Korhend]

1,000 years? Versus 7,000? Your still the foreigners

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

How are we foreingners in my opinion the only people who are foreingners in this country are those who want to be. I dont have a problem with people who have moved into this country if they accept the British way of life,respect our culture,regard there selves as British and understand that we have worked and fought hard to protect our home and make it a good place to live. Its just that a larger and larger amount of people whos familys havent been here long are deciding that they dont like our way of life, our culture and our country and have decided to bring it down instead of leaving. I say we'll respect your culture if you respect ours and if you dont like it leave.

[Korhend]

But see thats just the thing. British culture is foreign to england. If you are looking for foreigners not accepting the local way of life, look no further then the British.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

What do you mean by that? Im sorry im a little confused can you make it clearer.

[Chukchi Husky]

I think he means English is foreign to the native Britons

[arunma]

Besides, how do British Muslims deviate from the British way of life? Do Brits take offense when Muslims abstain from pork and eat halal meat?

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Oh I see. Now what im trying to say is that if someone has moved to Britain for whatever reason I have no problem with them doing there own thing as long as they also do some of the things that British people do already e.g speak English(Youll be suprised how many of them avoid speaking English if at all possible.), talk to people outside there ethnic group and accept our opinions. Also I to decide they dont like the way thing are done here and instead of leaving decide to go round saying Britains shite and I hate British people.

[Korhend]

But english is a foreign tongue to the Island. You yourself probably don't know any of the native tongues. I mean the locals were nice enough to put some of their signs up in your language, you could at least learn the countries native languages.

Above: Road sign, written in the native word (Araf) and the foreign tongue (Slow)

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Well English is actually a combination of the native tongues amongst other things. So whats your point no one speaks the native tongue without speaking English.

[Chukchi Husky]

I have been to Wales...

English is basically a German tongue written and spoken in a French way...

[Korhend]

But, is not actually the native tongue. Close, but you still can't understand the native tongue. I know Migrant workers who speak some english. How much of the real native tongues do you actually undestand?

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Yer they speak Welsh in large parts there so if I moved there I would have to speak Welsh.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

I speak very little of the native tongue as no one else does were not taught it at school and not many people understand it.

[Chukchi Husky]

Welsh is a form of Celtic, but the Celts were also invaders...

[Korhend]

Your right, in some regions you would have to learn Cornish or Scottish. But English is an entirely foreign tongue, as much as Aramaic is. So really, until you can speak one of those languages, you are a foreigner, and you cant even be bothered to learn the language.

[Korhend]

Welsh is a form of Celtic, but the Celts were also invaders...

Not according to the London University
http://en.wikipedia....e_British_Isles

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

I doubt you speak the origional language of your native country either.

[Chukchi Husky]

Not according to the London University
http://en.wikipedia....e_British_Isles

Well I did know that there was a native Briton population before the Celts, so the Britons were simply assimilated by Celtic culture.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Anyway the fact of the matter is the language of where I live is English so If people move here and dont like it they can piss off. Just as if I moved to India and didnt like speaking Indian I would leave.