214 replies to this topic

[Korhend]

Well then England has the longest, hardest, biggest record for failing ever in your opinion?

[Khuffie]

Joeb Wan Kenobi said

Well the countrys they are coming from havent been very succesful e.g India,Pakistan,Kosovo thats why there leaving them. Thats me finished for today its starting to get late here so have a goodnight everyone.

Guess who screwed over countries like India and those in Africa?

Yep! You guessed it! It was the colonial powers such as Britain and France, that came to those countries by force, instituted their own governments, screwed over the people and generally imposed their own way of life. Those countries are still recovering from the general ass-raping that happened then. And it's starting to happen again with countries like Iraq.

On the other hand, these Muslims are going to England through the legal process of immigration without invading armies to take up their place in the job market, helping the countries economy.

At the same time, you have failed to provide any form of evidence how Muslims in England are fighting a holy war against non-Muslims in an attempt to drive them out of England. If you wish to continue this debate, please find that evidence. With proper sources. Not "but this gang beat up this kid last week and they were nasty nasty Muslims with turbans and beards and non-pork meat!"

[Alakhriveion]

Khuffie, calm down- remember that the other side isn't rational.

[Khuffie]

Alakhriveion said

Khuffie, calm down- remember that the other side isn't rational.

Who said I wasn't calm?

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

I gave you evidence weve seen the riots we can see it happening at a local level. We shouldnt have screwed India, Africa etc because they werent as advanced and thats how things happened then and now there not srewing us. They want to impose there culture on us well were not going to let them just like we didnt let the Nazis, the Spanish and the French impose are culture on us.

[Kwicky Koala]

God I hate patriotism. How the hell are they imposing their culture on us? THATS WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO THEM, and you think you can justify that by claiming its your birthright just because you were born in this country. How can you compare thousands of Nazi storm troopers marching across Europe with people, often fleeing war zones, legally arriving here through immigration? Its insane, not to mention outrageously xenophobic.

Oh, and "India wasn't as advanced as us"? Perhaps in terms of pomposity and arrogance, yes.

[Korhend]

Joeb Wan Kenobi said

I gave you evidence weve seen the riots we can see it happening at a local level. We shouldnt have screwed India, Africa etc because they werent as advanced and thats how things happened then and now there not srewing us. They want to impose there culture on us well were not going to let them just like we didnt let the Nazis, the Spanish and the French impose are culture on us.

You didn't answer my question. So by your logic, the English are the biggest failures in the history of the human race?

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Britain like all other countries has made mistakes. But what is wrong with us wanting to protect our culture?

[Korhend]

Because apparently, your culture, for lack of a better word, sucks. I mean the longest history ever of failing! Its like rats fleeing a sinking ship! It seems like anyplace in the world looked like a better place then England.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Britains great why dont you like it?

[Korhend]

Because aparently if leaving a country is a sign that society is failing, England holds the title of biggest failure ever.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

The only reason more people are leaving is because more immigrants are coming in and [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of people dont like the weather.

[Khuffie]

Joeb Wan Kenobi said

I gave you evidence weve seen the riots we can see it happening at a local level. We shouldnt have screwed India, Africa etc because they werent as advanced and thats how things happened then and now there not srewing us. They want to impose there culture on us well were not going to let them just like we didnt let the Nazis, the Spanish and the French impose are culture on us.

I asked for fucking proof, NOT "i said this two bit local riot happened and i'm juxtaposing it on all Muslims everywhere". You provided no evidence that said local riot happened (or even what the riot was about) and you have provided no evidence that the majority of Muslims in England are 'imposing' their culture on the English.

How are they imposing their culture? Did anyone ever stick a gun to your head and force you to become a Muslim?

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Ok I specifically said that it is only a small minority of Muslims who are 'imposing' their culture on the English. They are imposing there culture by coming over here not speaking English or doing any of the things we do. I havent had a gun stuck to my head and I dont know if anyone else has for not being a Muslim but I know for certain people have been beaten up for not being a Muslim. As for the Bradford riots I thought I was talking to some one who knew somthing about what Im talking about. Ill have a look for some links to prove it.

[Khuffie]

Joeb Wan Kenobi said

They are imposing there culture by coming over here not speaking English or doing any of the things we do.

Explain how this imposes their culture on you. Please. I'd love to hear this.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

Well they come here and think hey this isnt like India,Pakistan,Africa etc and kick up a fuss about it.

[Khuffie]

That in no way probes how they're 'imposing their culture on you'. By impose it means they're forcing you to do what they do.

Let me tell you how things work on the other side of the world. Kuwait and other Middle Eastern countries have a lot of foreigners come to work there, mostly from Britain and the United States. Guess what? 99% of these people don't know a word of Arabic. They do all their transactions in English. If they go to stores/banks/restaurants, they do everything in English, and hence everyone who runs these stores has to know English. In fact, virtually every single place is 'bilingual'. Restaurant menus have both Arabic and English sides. Stores label everything in Arabic and English, and in fact often use the 'english' style numbers instead of the 'arabic' numbers. In those countries, governments have their own channels. Guess what? Their's an English only channel along with the Arabic channel to cater to these foreigners. Franchises like McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Domino's Pizza, TGI Fridays, Applebees, KFC, Baskin Robbins and other names I don't recall now are dominating the market. In fact, Burger King bought out the local fast-food franchise in Kuwait called Hungry Bunny and replaced all of its stores with Burger Kings. We have stores like Next, Gucci, Debenhams, Marks & Spencers, Diesel, Guess, Zara, River Island, Mango, GAP, and umpteen other franchises I don't care to remember. The movie theatres virtually only play American movies.

At the same time, most of these expatriates/foreigners live in these countries for a period of say, 5-6 years. They make a shitload of money due to the lack of any sort of taxation in those countries. They live lead conservative lives, rarely buying anything expensive. In other words, they put nothing back into the economy, and merely save a huge wad of cash, go back to England and buy a house, get married and settle.

Let's look at England, or Canada, or the US. All their immigration laws require a knowledge of English. So all these so called immigrants know at least some English, that would be enough for them to get by if they go to a store/restaurant/anywhere, which is more than you can see for all the foreigners in the Middle East. The fact that they prefer to speak in their native tongue among themselves is irrelevant. In terms of restaurants, when was the last time you saw an Arabic restaurant/franchise on the scale of McDonalds? Or an Arabic clothing store on the scale of Debenhams? most of these restaurants stores are small locally run 'mom and pop' stores that are neither big franchises nor make that much money.

Most of these immigrants are just that: immigrants. They go to these countries in the hopes of having a better life, and settling there. They make money, and they put the money back into the economy as they end up buying houses, cars and investing for the long term.

Now, who's raping who?

[arunma]

Joeb Wan Kenobi said

Well they come here and think hey this isnt like India,Pakistan,Africa etc and kick up a fuss about it.

India is Hindu, and about half of Africa is Christian. If you're going to stereotype, at least get it right.

[Korhend]

Joeb Wan Kenobi said

The only reason more people are leaving is because more immigrants are coming in and [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of people dont like the weather.

Oh it was immigrants that made the english flee to such lovely climates as Egypt, India, Autsralia and Northern Canada? People have been fleeing england for over 500 years now. Seems like by your definition, that england is a gigantic failure.

[Korhend]

To give examples of places that the British were fleeing to to escape life in england before immigration, in 1920 the english were fleeing there country in favor of places such as Botswana, Togoland, Cameroon, Gambia, Ghana, Egypt, Kenya, Mauritius, Nigeria, Zambia, Nyasaland, Sierra Leone, Somaliland, South Africa, Lesotho, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Swaziland, Sudan, Tanzania, Uganda, Ascension Island, Belize, Canada, Falkland Islands, Newfoundland, Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Bermuda, Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Dominica, Grenada, Jamaica, Montserrat, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines,Trinidad and Tobago, Turks and Caicos Islands, St Helena, Tristan da Cunha, South Georgia, Antarctica, Yemen, Bhutan, Papua New Guinea, Brunei, Burma, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iraq, Kuwait, Malayasia, Maldives, Palestine, Nepal,North Borneo, Oman, Qatar, Singapore, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Wei-Hai-Wei, Cyprus, Gibraltar, Malta, Ireland, Australia, Tuvalu, Fiji, Kiribati, Nauru, New Zealand, Pitcairn, Solomon Islands and, Tonga
But I'll give England credit, its hard to compete with the pleasent weather of Antartica and the Familiar culture of Borneo. So tell me since this was the hayday of Eugenics in england and there were tight immigration laws, what were they fleeing from? Was it Englands culture, or was it people like you?

[Khuffie]

Lets see what he has to say to my last post Korhend. I really want to see his answer.

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

To Khuffie-They(Not all of them mind not even most of them) impose our culture on us by turning up in our country and deciding they dont like it so they say right we find Christmas lets kick up a fuss about it,
they think oh theres someone who isnt Muslim lets kick the crap out of him or they think oh there culture encourages freedom of speech we dont like that lets kick up a fuss about it. They think stuff like that isnt in our culture so well try and stop it being in theres.
Korhed- [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of people also flee Britain because of over crowding (Sorry I didnt state that earlier) the reason theres over crowding is because so many people want to live here and its only a small country.
To Arunma-How was I stereotyping.

[Khuffie]

First, to answer this question:

Quote

To Arunma-How was I stereotyping.

I give you this:

Quote

To Khuffie-They(Not all of them mind not even most of them) impose our culture on us by turning up in our country and deciding they dont like it so they say right we find Christmas lets kick up a fuss about it,
 they think oh theres someone who isnt Muslim lets kick the crap out of him or they think oh there culture encourages freedom of speech we dont like that lets kick up a fuss about it. They think stuff like that isnt in our culture so well try and stop it being in theres.

Can you really be so stupid that you don't see what you're doing in that quote?

Joeb, I want you to do two things for me:
- give me proof that the vast majority of Muslims in England are doing the things you say they are doing in the above quote
- Address this post: http://forums.legend...1&postcount=197

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

I never said a vast majority I specsifically said a vast majority dont do any of the above things. As for your post all people who go to foreign countries should in my opinion learn to speak the language and behave in a way as to fit in with the local people. As for globalisation and the such Im really not sure wether or not its good or bad. Well the people have a choice wether or not to go to the shops maybe it is an invasion of there culture. Im really not sure on that one.

[Khuffie]

Joeb Wan Kenobi said

I never said a vast majority I specsifically said a vast majority dont do any of the above things.

Then what are you complaining about? There's assholes in the world. They do stupid shit. That doesn't mean you can blame the whole ethnicity because of some assholes.

The fact that they are a minority (of which you've yet to provide proof of any of this actually happening) makes it a non-issue.

Quote

As for your post all people who go to foreign countries should in my opinion learn to speak the language and behave in a way as to fit in with the local people.

But these are British people. And they are doing what you're complaining about and more in a far larger scale.

Quote

As for globalisation and the such Im really not sure wether or not its good or bad. Well the people have a choice wether or not to go to the shops maybe it is an invasion of there culture. Im really not sure on that one.

But you're complaining that these immigrants are destroying the British culture. Have all the pubs in England been replaced with shisha places? Have all the clubs been replaced with mosques? Have all the Marks and Spencers been replaced by Hijabs-Are-Us? Have all the Burger Kings been replaced by Shawarma Kings? Have all the fish-and-chip stores been replaced by Hummus and Falafel?

What exactly are you complaing about?

[Alakhriveion]

Khuffie said

Have all the Burger Kings been replaced by Shawarma Kings?

Let the record show that this would be awesome.

Joeb said

How was I stereotyping.

Howda... did you just...? Where do I start? Should I even bother at this point?

[arunma]

Alakhriveion said

Howda... did you just...? Where do I start? Should I even bother at this point?

*Upgrades the Alak's memory to 512K*

[Joeb Wan Kenobi]

To Khuffie
1.I suppose your right its not the fault of many Muslims just a small few. The real enemy are the British Politicians who let these few who do cause all the hassle get away with it.
2. I wouldnt say its on a larger scale but there are some people who move over to other countries should speak there language.
3. And yes quite [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the shops and other ammenities have been replaced by more immigrant orientaited ones. We did about this at school Ill show you the worksheet when I get it back.
Could I have a list of all the stuff you want you want proveing.

[Alakhriveion]

Quote

3. And yes quite [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the shops and other ammenities have been replaced by more immigrant orientaited ones. We did about this at school Ill show you the worksheet when I get it back.

And?

Quote

1.I suppose your right its not the fault of many Muslims just a small few. The real enemy are the British Politicians who let these few who do cause all the hassle get away with it.

What hassle? I've heard nothing about this.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Somebody around here hasn't watched Eddie Izzard's "Mongrel Nation", which showed how much of England's very culture isn't very English at all, what with it being constantly invaded, first by the Saxons, then the Romans, then the Vikings...

I mean, a third of all Londoners can claim to have a black ancestor.

The current British Royal Family is practically half-German. The King, Prince Phillip, came from Greece (although I've been told by a Greek family that he's also German). The favourite national dish of the UK is a curry and its national drink is tea which comes from China or India.

St. George (the patron Saint of England who represents everything English) was a Turk.

I particularly love this particular scene from the comedy series, Blackadder: Goes Forth, where Blackadder is interrogating one of his superiors on suspicion of being a spy-

"I'm as British as Queen Victoria!"
Blackadder: "You mean your father's German, you're half German and you married a German?"

It practically sums up anything you can say about being British. The Tower of London, for example, was built by a Frenchman. Many of the aristocrats in our country can claim French descent.

Foreigners have been entering our country since the Saxons (who initially came from somewhere near Germany) invaded our shores, and they've been leaving their mark and improving our culture. If it weren't for the Romans, we wouldn't have a Sunday Roast Dinner to speak of. If it weren't for the early wave of Pakistanis, corner shops will still be shut at insanely early hours.

Did you know that shampoo came from India (or at least, the word for it did)?

British English is practically filled with foreign influences to the way we spell the word, centre (coz we nicked the word from the French and didn't bother to change the way it was spelt), colour, plumbing and so forth.

The immigrants we are accepting today still haven't had time to contribute to British culture. They cannot erase British culture completely. But I would agree with you, if you say we must limit the number of immigrants. We are, after all, only an island and can only take so many.

If you're so adamant in defending British culture, however, try campaigning against the Americans (specifically American Corporations). If anything, its American Corporations that are slowly eroding away British culture what with the numerous McDonald's, Burger Kings, Starbucks... You just walk down a street and tell me how many British franchises you can see. Not very many, huh?

(Just look at your username. If I'm correct, isn't that a Star Wars name? Isn't Star Wars an American cultural icon of sorts?)

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1.I suppose your right its not the fault of many Muslims just a small few. The real enemy are the British Politicians who let these few who do cause all the hassle get away with it.

I'm sorry. I just don't know where to start on that.

So, you call arresting Abu Hamza on charges of inciting religious hatred, letting him getting away with inciting religious hatred? You call arresting several Muslim men and detaining them in Belmarsh Prison without right to a proper trial with a jury, letting them get away with it?

For the love of laminated cheese, man! The way you keep badgering on, you're making our country seem like a Third World Banana Republic.

To those who haven't visited the UK or don't live here, believe it or not, we aren't a Banana republic. We're just a run-down nation filled with incompetent politicians, a less than efficient health care system, a strange problem with binge drinking, a government that's trying to imitate Churchill's Wartime Government in the way it tells us to do things for our own benefit, and trains that fail to run properly in rain, sleet, snow, with leaves on the track or in perfectly sunny weather.