818 replies to this topic

[Sir Turtlelot]

Completely wrong also: FSA was at one point going to be the SW, however that idea was scrapped. And the Miyamotto timeline CAN still work in today's timeline.

OoT-TWW/PH-LoZ/AoL-OoS/OoA-TMC-FS/FSA-ALttP/LA

I'm curious as to how that works, since Ganon dies at the end of TWW, and then is somehow alive again in LoZ, without some kind of explanation as to how he came back.

Could you explain how that works?

[Average Gamer]

Source that it was meant to be literal?

Sure thing.

いかにもワシが長老であり
７賢者のしそんの１人
サハスラーラじゃ。

　…　…　…なんと
リンクよ、おさないお前が
退魔の剣　求めておるのか！

じゃが、あの剣は誰でも使える
わけではのうてな。
３匹の魔物を倒し３つの紋章を
手にした『勇者』だけが使い手
になれるとハイリアの民は
伝えとる　…　…　…
いどんでみるか？

I am indeed Sahasralah, the elder, one of the descendants of the Seven Sages.

... ... ... what?
Link, is someone so young as you seeking the magic-repelling sword!

But it's not the case that just anyone can use that sword.
Only the "Hero" who has defeated the three monsters and obtained the three crests can become its master, as the Hylians passed down ... ... ...
Will you attempt the challenge?

子孫 (しそん, shison) means descendant, posterity, or offspring. Note its relationship to 一族 (ichizoku), which means family or household. This word is used to describe the family of sages, the family of Knights, the Goron people, etc. In OoT Ganondorf uses this word when he says he will exterminate everyones' descendants. He's actually promising to wipe out their respective families. So descendant, in this context, seems to mean a literal blood relation within a family. Which makes it difficult to explain how the sages all became Hylian. The whole issue is still open to interpretation.

But you just said yourself that the transformations of the SR in OoT and ALttP are different.

I said that they'd have to be different if LoZ and AoL came between those games, since Link getting the Triforce in AoL would have effectively purified the Sacred Realm, requiring a second corruption if ALttP was to come after AoL.

We're not debating intent now though, we're debating original intent.

I take it you mean before TWW. In that instance, Link was still more popular than the Sages, seeing as how he personally traveled across Hyrule and interacted with the people, becoming known as a hero to the Gorons twofold, potentially being the only Hylian member of the Gerudo thieves, apparently being the one to save the Kokiri, etc. The Sages more or less vanished and their ascension seemingly went unnoticed.

Also, Ganondorf and Ganon are the same guy. The SNES ALttP manual states that Ganon was Ganondorf's nickname before he ever claimed the Triforce, and the name Ganon's Tower in OoT suggests that Ganon was the nickname of OoT's Ganondorf as well. Regarding the transformations, the beast form seems to bear the name Ganon for mere convenience.

Edited by Average Gamer, 08 September 2009 - 08:52 PM.

[Person]

Note that the final boss fight in TP was against "Dark Lord Ganon" but he was human. There is literally no Ganon/Ganondorf dichotomy anymore. It refers to him whether he's human or a pig. TP even uses "Dark Beast Ganon" to distinguish that from his human form.

[joeymartin64]

TP's final boss is called "Dark Lord: Ganondorf." I agree with you that they're pretty much interchangeable now, but I've got to call that one.

[Fin]

Note that the final boss fight in TP was against "Dark Lord Ganon" but he was human.

Wait, is this from one of jacen or Jumbie's translations? Because the NoA version definitely calls him Ganondorf here.



EDIT: Okay, I guess Joey beat me to the punch. <.<

Edited by Fintin O'Brien, 09 September 2009 - 01:02 AM.

[joeymartin64]

In. Your. FACE!

Visual evidence helps, though. I just wish you'd used the right version.

[Fin]

I just picked the first picture I saw with that scene. I didn't even notice that it was the Wii version. I guess it's been a while since I played TP - I used to immediately cringe whenever I saw the reversed perspective. XD

[Person]

Really? I thought the Wii version said "Ganon." Is that one of those Wii-GC changes?

EDIT: Never mind. It's the same in both versions.

Edited by Person, 09 September 2009 - 10:42 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

FAIL

Edited by MikePetersSucks, 09 September 2009 - 01:06 PM.

[Pinecove]

I'm curious as to how that works, since Ganon dies at the end of TWW, and then is somehow alive again in LoZ, without some kind of explanation as to how he came back.

AST shows us that even if Ganondorf dies (his body) his essence will survive. So TWW Ganon's body dies, LoZ his spirit is alive.

Sure thing.

Do you have any other translatior notes on this? One source isn't exactly enough for me, seeing as the entire argument is based on a translator who could possibly be baised.

I said that they'd have to be different if LoZ and AoL came between those games, since Link getting the Triforce in AoL would have effectively purified the Sacred Realm, requiring a second corruption if ALttP was to come after AoL.

Hmm that's up for debate. The Triforce wasn't in the SR at that point and we don't even know if Link wished on it in AoL.

take it you mean before TWW. In that instance, Link was still more popular than the Sages, seeing as how he personally traveled across Hyrule and interacted with the people, becoming known as a hero to the Gorons twofold, potentially being the only Hylian member of the Gerudo thieves, apparently being the one to save the Kokiri, etc. The Sages more or less vanished and their ascension seemingly went unnoticed.

...what?

Also, Ganondorf and Ganon are the same guy. The SNES ALttP manual states that Ganon was Ganondorf's nickname before he ever claimed the Triforce, and the name Ganon's Tower in OoT suggests that Ganon was the nickname of OoT's Ganondorf as well. Regarding the transformations, the beast form seems to bear the name Ganon for mere convenience.

While that may have been the case originally, AST says otherwise.

[Average Gamer]

AST shows us that even if Ganondorf dies (his body) his essence will survive. So TWW Ganon's body dies, LoZ his spirit is alive.

Ganondorf and Ganon are the same guy. You should probably just say that he merely reincarnated or something. Even then, Ganondorf's final words in TWW suggest that he either accepted his death or found peace, meaning that he might not come back on that timeline.

Do you have any other translatior notes on this? One source isn't exactly enough for me, seeing as the entire argument is based on a translator who could possibly be baised.

You could probably ask Jacen for his take on it, though he's busy at the moment or just taking a well-deserved break. Also, seeing as how the ZL guys said that it was open to interpretation, I doubt that they were biased.

Hmm that's up for debate. The Triforce wasn't in the SR at that point

I don't recall anything stating that the Triforce needing to be in the realm to change it.

and we don't even know if Link wished on it in AoL.

Seeing as how he woke up the sleeping Zelda with the Triforce, chances are that he did wish on it.

...what?

I thought that you were referring to the pre-TWW time when you said "original intent".

While that may have been the case originally, AST says otherwise.

I do not believe that AST is canon. Also, I have seen nothing from AST indicating that Ganondorf and Ganon aren't the same guy.

[MikePetersSucks]

AST shows us that even if Ganondorf dies (his body) his essence will survive. So TWW Ganon's body dies, LoZ his spirit is alive.

The problem is that LTTP Ganondorf used the Triforce to invest parts of his soul into the Stone Tablets in the brief time window where his seal was broken. This isn't something TWW Ganondorf ever got a chance to do, and the tablets were destroyed by the Hero of Light.

[Showsni]

But even if his body dies, AoL shows us he can be brought back to life.

[Person]

A TWW-LoZ order still has the problem of him being at the bottom of the ocean. AoL required Link's blood to be sprinkled on his ashes. Ganon's remains are turned to stone with a sword stuck in them at the bottom of the ocean.

[Pinecove]

Ganondorf and Ganon are the same guy. You should probably just say that he merely reincarnated or something. Even then, Ganondorf's final words in TWW suggest that he either accepted his death or found peace, meaning that he might not come back on that timeline.

The end of ALttP also suggests Ganon has been "totally destroyed" yet ...ZOMG there he is in AST!

Did you not look at the evidence I posted? I can get a quote if you like. But just ignoring the evidance really gets me angry. You don't want me angry.

You could probably ask Jacen for his take on it, though he's busy at the moment or just taking a well-deserved break. Also, seeing as how the ZL guys said that it was open to interpretation, I doubt that they were biased.

hmmm. Funny I seem to remeber that they said

子孫 (しそん, shison) means descendant, posterity, or offspring. Note its relationship to 一族 (ichizoku), which means family or household. This word is used to describe the family of sages, the family of Knights, the Goron people, etc. In OoT Ganondorf uses this word when he says he will exterminate everyones' descendants. He's actually promising to wipe out their respective families. So descendant, in this context, seems to mean a literal blood relation within a family. Which makes it difficult to explain how the sages all became Hylian. The whole issue is still open to interpretation.

So I guess you're right in some aspects. It was still heavily baised though.

I don't recall anything stating that the Triforce needing to be in the realm to change it.

Isn't it implied?

Seeing as how he woke up the sleeping Zelda with the Triforce, chances are that he did wish on it.

AoL ONLY states that the Triforce peices have to be brought together. NOT that they have to be wished upon. The power of the Triforce alone might have been able to break the curse.

I do not believe that AST is canon. Also, I have seen nothing from AST indicating that Ganondorf and Ganon aren't the same guy.

It was supervised by the guy who supervised ALttP OoT and LoZ. (Or something like that. They supervised OoT and ALttP I know that) and it was mentioned in the Zelda no video documentary. It's Canon.

Plus:

On Death Mountain I felt... I felt Ganon's presence.
I know the Evil King Ganon was sealed by Link, the Hero.
His body was sealed, but his malicious essence could not be sealed.
It was through this evil energy's doing that the youth was pulled into our world.

There's the quote.

The problem is that LTTP Ganondorf used the Triforce to invest parts of his soul into the Stone Tablets in the brief time window where his seal was broken. This isn't something TWW Ganondorf ever got a chance to do, and the tablets were destroyed by the Hero of Light.

That's never implied. Give me proof next time you want to give a ludicrous baised statement that has nothing backing it up.

A TWW-LoZ order still has the problem of him being at the bottom of the ocean. AoL required Link's blood to be sprinkled on his ashes. Ganon's remains are turned to stone with a sword stuck in them at the bottom of the ocean.

His SOUL his SOUL. NOT a body.

[Sir Turtlelot]

I'm sorry, this isn't relevant to the discussion, but I felt it was necessary to do...

Did you not look at the evidence I posted? I can get a quote if you like. But just ignoring the evidance really gets me angry. You don't want me angry.

DESTINY SMASH!

Anyways more on topic...

TWW-LoZ connection still seems more like it's founded on speculation rather than evidence, don't get me wrong, you have a good theory, but I still haven't seen any solid evidence as to why it should be this placement. There's a good chance I may have missed something you said previously explaining this further.

So what evidence do you have?

[MikePetersSucks]

The end of ALttP also suggests Ganon has been "totally destroyed" yet ...ZOMG there he is in AST!

AST may not be canon, depending on which side of the fence you're on. Also, lol, you're using the English script to argue a Japanese-only game plot point. Are you a dunce, or just that conceited?

Isn't it implied?

No.

AoL ONLY states that the Triforce peices have to be brought together. NOT that they have to be wished upon. The power of the Triforce alone might have been able to break the curse.

Seeing as how the Triforce grants your wish just by being touched, I don't think it's possible to unite the pieces without making a wish. And guess what AoL Link's greatest wish at the time was. Besides, there's no reason to believe that the Triforce's mere unification would do anything like breaking curses. It's the arbiter of reality, and doesn't judge good and evil.

It was supervised by the guy who supervised ALttP OoT and LoZ. (Or something like that. They supervised OoT and ALttP I know that) and it was mentioned in the Zelda no video documentary. It's Canon.

"Or something like that." Damn, that's a compelling argument right there.

That's never implied. Give me proof next time you want to give a ludicrous baised statement that has nothing backing it up.

Did you even play the game? No, of course not, your source of information is probably stuff such as the quotes you're citing, which, by the way, I assisted in providing. I've actually played AST from start to finish, so kindly step off my balls and look at the proof already provided all over the place. I'm not your courier.

Anyway, regardless, Ganon himself says that the tablets are the source of his resurrection, and they exist only in AST.

[Pinecove]

I'm sorry, this isn't relevant to the discussion, but I felt it was necessary to do...

Win.

TWW-LoZ connection still seems more like it's founded on speculation rather than evidence, don't get me wrong, you have a good theory, but I still haven't seen any solid evidence as to why it should be this placement. There's a good chance I may have missed something you said previously explaining this further.

So what evidence do you have?

Maze island.
Cresent island.
The oracle games.
FPTRRL (asuming it's Canon).
The interveiw by Aonuma in 2008.

Plus putting LoZ after ALttP doesn't really make that much sense if you think about it.

AST may not be canon, depending on which side of the fence you're on. Also, lol, you're using the English script to argue a Japanese-only game plot point. Are you a dunce, or just that conceited?

That's Japanese asshole. Learn your facts before calling me out on them. Learn to theorize okay?

http://forums.zeldai...st-translation/

Seeing as how the Triforce grants your wish just by being touched, I don't think it's possible to unite the pieces without making a wish. And guess what AoL Link's greatest wish at the time was. Besides, there's no reason to believe that the Triforce's mere unification would do anything like breaking curses. It's the arbiter of reality, and doesn't judge good and evil.

Fair enough, but the wishing on of the triforce doesn't suggest that it goes back to the sacred realm.

"Or something like that." Damn, that's a compelling argument right there.

Or "Maybe I don't have time to look it up because I'm busy [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]." Damn you're a compeling asshole right here.

Did you even play the game? No, of course not, your source of information is probably stuff such as the quotes you're citing, which, by the way, I assisted in providing. I've actually played AST from start to finish, so kindly step off my balls and look at the proof already provided all over the place. I'm not your courier.

Yes I did actually. Maybe you should take a look at that nice shiny link I provided that shows the translations for AST. Maybe you should LAY THE FUCK OFF before acusing me of being an asshole who doesn't know how to theorize like you are. MAYBE you should try to be less of an asshole next time.

Btw the quotes were NOT provided by you. Don't take credit for other people's work.

Anyway, regardless, Ganon himself says that the tablets are the source of his resurrection, and they exist only in AST.

THEN GIVE ME A QUOTE!

You're the most baised theorist I've ever met. Fuck off.

Edited by Destiny, 11 September 2009 - 05:03 PM.

[Average Gamer]

Maze island.

However, it would appear that people from the Great Sea aren't really supposed to be in the Ocean King's Realm, seeing as how Link, Tetra, and Linebeck have no choice but to leave it in the ending of PH.

Cresent island.

Doesn't it face the wrong way?

Plus putting LoZ after ALttP doesn't really make that much sense if you think about it.

How?

That's Japanese asshole. Learn your facts before calling me out on them.

He was referring to the "totally destroyed" line from ALttP that you mentioned. The Japanese version of ALttP only says that Ganon has fallen.

[Ikiosho]

You're the most baised theorist I've ever met. Fuck off.

That's Japanese asshole. Learn your facts before calling me out on them. Learn to theorize okay?

I don't even check here that often. Mostly because of extended posts I'm too lazy to read.

But really. What gives you the right to tell someone they're a bad theorist?

[Pinecove]

I got mad. Simple as that. I don't like people insulting me.

I'm sorry MPS I didn't really mean it. Let's try to be nicer to eachother in the future. My appologies.

Edit:

However, it would appear that people from the Great Sea aren't really supposed to be in the Ocean King's Realm, seeing as how Link, Tetra, and Linebeck have no choice but to leave it in the ending of PH.

Yes, because the've been missing for like 3 days.

Doesn't it face the wrong way?

Yeah but things like that happen. The plate that indea was on rotated around completely in only about 400 years.

How?

How not? The Geography is all messed up, Ganon doesn't have an explenation for being alive (even WITH AST) and it works better in other places in my opinion.

He was referring to the "totally destroyed" line from ALttP that you mentioned. The Japanese version of ALttP only says that Ganon has fallen.

........oh.

Truth be told, that kindof strengthens my argument.

Edited by Destiny, 11 September 2009 - 08:50 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

That's Japanese asshole. Learn your facts before calling me out on them. Learn to theorize okay?

http://forums.zeldai...st-translation/

I was talking about the "Ganon was completely destroyed", line, but thanks for demonstrating that you can't follow a conversation.

Fair enough, but the wishing on of the triforce doesn't suggest that it goes back to the sacred realm.

No, of course not, but it flying off into the unreachable heavens afterwards certainly does.

Or "Maybe I don't have time to look it up because I'm busy [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]." Damn you're a compeling asshole right here.

A compelling asshole? What does that even mean?

Anyway, I hate calling this card, but when I say "i'm busy [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]", it usually means "be back later, I'm getting a life-preserving routine surgery that keeps me away from the computer for eight hours at a time."

Yea, suddenly feel like a jackass, now, huh? Picking on someone with a life-threatening disease who can't spend more than a few minutes on the computer to satisfy your own selfish whims for a quote.

Yes I did actually. Maybe you should take a look at that nice shiny link I provided that shows the translations for AST. Maybe you should LAY THE FUCK OFF before acusing me of being an asshole who doesn't know how to theorize like you are. MAYBE you should try to be less of an asshole next time.

Btw the quotes were NOT provided by you. Don't take credit for other people's work.

I never said I provided the quotes, I helped translate them though. That's a fucking fact, and anyone on this forum can attest to it.

Also, none of what you're complaining about has anything to do with the ability or knowledge to theorize, get the stick out of your ass. You sent me a PM asking me to stop flaming you, but you flamed me first, and are flaming with stronger intensity. I'm just protecting my integrity and pointing out things you're getting genuinely wrong.

If this is how you act on other forums, no wonder you came here. You probably got banned for your attitude.

THEN GIVE ME A QUOTE!

You're the most baised theorist I've ever met. Fuck off.

I DONT HAVE THE TIME TO GO THROUGH HOURS-WORTH OF SCRIPT-SCROLLING FOR A SINGLE QUOTE GET IT YOURSELF YOU LAZY TWAT.

You're the laziest, most butthurt, hypocritical, biased theorist I've never met. Twat off.

I got mad. Simple as that. I don't like people insulting me.

I'm sorry MPS I didn't really mean it. Let's try to be nicer to eachother in the future. My appologies.

No, go fuck yourself. What you said was way worse than anything I'VE ever said to ANYONE, and all because I corrected you, with emotionally neutral intent and wording, on something of which you were 100% wrong. You don't get to treat people like that, apologize, then expect it to be all better.

Yes, because the've been missing for like 3 days.

Actually, it was 20 minutes.

Yeah but things like that happen. The plate that indea was on rotated around completely in only about 400 years.

Yea, that's a complete and total lie. It would take a tectonic plate millions upon millions of years to make such a big shift such as turning around. Not to mention Tectonic Plates don't rotate, and even if they did, it would pretty much turn India into an island or something due to the massive geographic shift such a thing would've done.

This isn't even account for the fact that since Hyrule and such were created by Goddesses instead of geographic activity, there's probably no tectonic plates in the world of Hyrule, since those are pretty much a result of planet Earth's secular development from the time it was a volcanic rock.

........oh.

Truth be told, that kindof strengthens my argument.

Not really. Being "completely destroyed" and "being dead" aren't really the same thing, but either way it doesn't mean you can just get up and shrug the dust off.

[Person]

I think that this has gone far off topic. Let me just repost this actual stupid theory that I came across on ZU:

This ZU thread by Lex makes me weep ever so hardly.
"Cryptic Quote By Aonuma that may give clues to TP's timeline placement."

Typical Lex bullcrappery. Take a quote out of context and twist it to mean something that it never meant in the first place.

And if you think this is turning into another Dark Mirror debate, you'd be correct. It seems that that is Lex's issue of the day now that his inane Seal War arguments have run their course.

This is why I really really hate ZU, to be honest.

[Average Gamer]

I think that this has gone far off topic. Let me just repost this actual stupid theory that I came across on ZU:

This ZU thread by Lex makes me weep ever so hardly.
"Cryptic Quote By Aonuma that may give clues to TP's timeline placement."

Typical Lex bullcrappery. Take a quote out of context and twist it to mean something that it never meant in the first place.

And if you think this is turning into another Dark Mirror debate, you'd be correct. It seems that that is Lex's issue of the day now that his inane Seal War arguments have run their course.

This is why I really really hate ZU, to be honest.

I even sent a PM to Impossible about that, though he told me that he had already read it. Lex is really pathetic, and bitterlime's argument feels like it could eventually inspire a train of thought that would go like this:

"Oh, the mirrors are the same, FSA must be on the AT."

"Oh, the mirrors are different, FSA must be on the AT."

Man, I'm going to upload a thread where ZU's Quick Silver began claiming that the Link mentioned in TWW's backstory wasn't the Link from OoT.

Edit: I've found the link, and I'm also throwing in an analysis by a member named Cukeman that is also flawed.

http://www.zeldauniv...-backstory.html

http://www.zeldauniv...erspective.html

Edited by Average Gamer, 12 September 2009 - 03:11 AM.

[Impossible]

Lex: "Aonuma was talking about TP's timeline placement being uncertain, back when TP was going to be between OoT and TWW... And something changed, so he must have been talking about changing where completely different games go!" This is coming from the guy who attacks the idea that FSA was intended to be the IW because he sees that as a minor detail. But that's based in actual evidence, this is simply made up evidence forged out of nothing. I can go on if people want me to, but it really doesn't merit a public shaming to the extent of the bigass PM I sent AG. That was just for his benefit, because I'm not going to post there myself.

I'm not going to address all of Destiny's nonsense, as MPS is fine there, but: If you take KnS as a retcon, it doesn't say Ganon's body was killed, it says he was sealed. All it does is add viability to ALttP-LoZ.

[Pinecove]

No, of course not, but it flying off into the unreachable heavens afterwards certainly does.

Which game are you talking about? TWW or OoS/OoA?

Yea, suddenly feel like a jackass, now, huh? Picking on someone with a life-threatening disease who can't spend more than a few minutes on the computer to satisfy your own selfish whims for a quote.

I'm sorry. I didn't know you had that disease.

I never said I provided the quotes, I helped translate them though. That's a fucking fact, and anyone on this forum can attest to it.

Also, none of what you're complaining about has anything to do with the ability or knowledge to theorize, get the stick out of your ass. You sent me a PM asking me to stop flaming you, but you flamed me first, and are flaming with stronger intensity. I'm just protecting my integrity and pointing out things you're getting genuinely wrong.

If this is how you act on other forums, no wonder you came here. You probably got banned for your attitude.

I have no comment on this. It's true I started flaming and I appologise.

Actually, it was 20 minutes.

20 minutes when they were sent back to their "world." In truth we don't know how long they were actually missing asuming that
the Ocean king's realm is another portion of the great sea.

but: If you take KnS as a retcon, it doesn't say Ganon's body was killed, it says he was sealed. All it does is add viability to ALttP-LoZ.

Ah but in the Zelda universe, Killed and sealed are used interchangably. Note how Ganon was "Revived" for TWW's BS. I'm basing this off a situation from Okami where Amaterasu (the protaganist) defeats Yami (the demon) by slicing off al his 7 heads, whereas at the end of the game, he's simply said to have been sealed.

By the way I don't believe in retcons.

At any rate the main point of this post:

No, go fuck yourself. What you said was way worse than anything I'VE ever said to ANYONE, and all because I corrected you, with emotionally neutral intent and wording, on something of which you were 100% wrong. You don't get to treat people like that, apologize, then expect it to be all better.

Okay, so I'm supposed to go die in a pit because you apearently corrected me with naturally neutral feeling towards me even though you've insulted me, called me a dunce and called me out for providing proof that Ganon's essense survives saying that I was wrong without backing yourself up?

I don't want this to go on any further and it may just be a big misunderstanding, but you really have a way of ticking me off.

[Impossible]

Ah but in the Zelda universe, Killed and sealed are used interchangably. Note how Ganon was "Revived" for TWW's BS.

Um, that's not an interchangeable use of killed and sealed, because TWW's backstory never says that he was killed... You can just as easily say that he was revived in a figurative sense, from the seal. Revival in general can refer to things other than coming back from death, like coming back from being incapacitated.

By the way I don't believe in retcons.

Well then you're a bit screwed, as the Zelda series has plenty... Look at the Imprisoning War mess. Or various conflicts between TMC, FS and FSA (Vaati's backstory, the Palace of Winds, the elements/royal jewels). Or, you know, KnS changing what was depicted as a death into a sealing instead.

Edited by Impossible, 12 September 2009 - 11:24 AM.

[Masamune]

By the way I don't believe in retcons.

Well then you're a bit screwed, as the Zelda series has plenty... Look at the Imprisoning War mess. Or various conflicts between TMC, FS and FSA (Vaati's backstory, the Palace of Winds, the elements/royal jewels). Or, you know, KnS changing what was depicted as a death into a sealing instead.

Besides, the only one who can say they don't believe in retcons is the creator of the series.

[MikePetersSucks]

Which game are you talking about? TWW or OoS/OoA?

TWW, and possibly AOL, since it does seem to scatter when Link uses it.

20 minutes when they were sent back to their "world." In truth we don't know how long they were actually missing asuming that
the Ocean king's realm is another portion of the great sea.

Either way, the Ocean King's alteration to reality made it twenty minutes.

Ah but in the Zelda universe, Killed and sealed are used interchangably. Note how Ganon was "Revived" for TWW's BS. I'm basing this off a situation from Okami where Amaterasu (the protaganist) defeats Yami (the demon) by slicing off al his 7 heads, whereas at the end of the game, he's simply said to have been sealed.

By the way I don't believe in retcons.

They're not used interchangeably, and fun fact: The word "revived" isn't in the Japanese TWW backstory script.

And Yami didn't have seven heads. Are you thinking of Orochi, whose body was broken and his soul sealed in Tsukuyomi? Because even if so, that's a very different situation.

Okay, so I'm supposed to go die in a pit because you apearently corrected me with naturally neutral feeling towards me even though you've insulted me, called me a dunce and called me out for providing proof that Ganon's essense survives saying that I was wrong without backing yourself up?

I don't want this to go on any further and it may just be a big misunderstanding, but you really have a way of ticking me off.

None of that happened until you were aggressive first. I'm pretty polite until someone is an idiot and decides to be a jerk to me, in which case this is entirely your own fault. Grow up and learn some social skills.

[Person]

Cukeman's theory made me laugh.