818 replies to this topic

[Person]

Hyrule and Talmina the Same??

Yes, he did misspell Termina in the article title. When the first line of the theory is "Somebody on GameFAQs gave me this idea..." you know you're in for a wild ride.

[Arturo]

The others settled in "Kokiri Dessert", where they picked a ruler. King Ikana

Brilliant ^^

[Fin]

That sounds deliciously illegal.

Edited by Fintin O'Brien, 16 June 2009 - 06:49 AM.

[Duke Serkol]

Talmina was the way Termina got translated when we got the first details of MM's plot. Some people remained persuaded that this was the proper Japanese name. So that explains this (though it certinly does not justify it).

Also, Jumbie has a theory concerning Termina's geography. While he does not deny that it is another dimension, he thinks not only the people you meet there, but also the geography could mirror that of Hyrule... except not of OoT Hyrule, but a specific place of AoL, the area around Nabooru.
I don't really go for this theory, but I've gotta say it's interesting.

[Person]

The Ritos never evolved from Zoras!!!! They're just hiding!

What gets me about this one is that it goes on for fifty pages. That, and a matter like this is still controversial at GameFAQs, when Eiji Aonuma confirmed that Ritos descended from Zoras right after TWW came out.

[MikePetersSucks]

Eiji Aonuma confirmed that Ritos descended from Zoras right after TWW came out.

I'm gonna want citation on this one.

[Arturo]

Ah, that was quite recent and I wondered why you hadn't commented (all this time saying Zoras and Ritos had nothing to do with each other... )

Edited by Arturo, 18 June 2009 - 11:45 AM.

[Person]

Read through this topic.

Around page 10 or 11 or 12 or so, some guy named Ether101 is claiming that the OoT manga is canon because the Watarara inspired the Ritos. Of course, he also goes on to say that this means that Sheik is canonically male. I replied:

Just because the creators might have taken ideas from the manga do not mean that the manga are canon. Navi was inspired by several different fairy companions in various non-canon media, such as Spryte from the TV show. Does this suddenly make the TV show canon? No. As for the "Sheik is a boy" thing in the OoT manga, Nintendo has been contradicting that left and right since pretty much everybody knows that Sheik is Zelda now. SSBB made her obviously feminine, and that was from an unused TP model, too, so it shows intent to make Sheik's canon gender female.

He proceeds to shout back:

Just because the creators might have taken ideas from the manga do not mean that the manga are canon.

No said that it does. But the fact that the OoT fits better into the canon then the game

Navi was inspired by several different fairy companions in various non-canon media, such as Spryte from the TV show. Does this suddenly make the TV show canon? No.

Once again, no one said anything like it so get off it your not convincing anyone that your intelligent.

As for the "Sheik is a boy" thing in the OoT manga, Nintendo has been contradicting that left and right since pretty much everybody knows that Sheik is Zelda now. SSBB made her obviously feminine, and that was from an unused TP model, too, so it shows intent to make Sheik's canon gender female.

No it doesn't, in all likeliness the TP Sheik was probably going to end up as a separate character all together. Plus, anyone with an iota of brain matter knows that Nintendo's just caving into demand of sexist whiners. Hell, I bet you're completely clueless about Link turns into a female fairy in Zelda II.

Why is there suddenly a glut of people going around claiming that the manga are canon? It's the US releases, isn't it? And apparently thinking that they're not canon makes you a sexist whiner.

[Average Gamer]

The Ritos never evolved from Zoras!!!! They're just hiding!

What gets me about this one is that it goes on for fifty pages. That, and a matter like this is still controversial at GameFAQs, when Eiji Aonuma confirmed that Ritos descended from Zoras right after TWW came out.

That's annoyed me as well, especially since the link to the translation has been posted in that thread and many similar ones on GameFAQs.

IGN's also come up with a crazy theory. I'll find it in a second.

Edit: Found it.

http://boards.ign.co...81363902/p1/?13

Edited by Average Gamer, 18 June 2009 - 10:36 PM.

[Sparx401]

Person, I think I stopped the debate already (or at least kamikazetomato conceded that the rito are in fact the zora evolved). He made a second topic on the new Zelda wii board.

Also...

tl;dr- Is it possible that the "Goddesses" are actually the Oracles who obtained the Light Force?

That makes me sad.

[Person]

Notice that the Goddesses didn't create Hyrule. They simply shaped what was already there.

That's the same thing!! The Hyrulian creation story is remarkably similar to the Judeo-Christian creation story. In both cases, the creator shaped order out of chaos. Does this guy think that all of the world was hunky-dory except for Hyrule that was a big blob of chaotic antimatter?

Could it be that when the Oracles obtained the Light Force, went back in time and shaped Hyrule from the chaotic remnants of what was there before, the Light Force that was split between them became the Triforce when they left for the Sacred Realm?

Why must everything involve time travel with these people?

EDIT:
Oh, and remember this timeline?

Edited by Person, 19 June 2009 - 10:08 AM.

[Jarsh]

Exactly how bad is the IGN board? Like, is there a topic you can show which demonstrates that level of idiocy? I mean, if GameFAQs has decent timeline topics, IGN can't be that terrible, can it?

Before you read this thread, keep in mind that the member named Volvagia_slayer is supposed to be IGN's main Zelda "intellectual".

http://boards.ign.co...81048805/p1/?20

Alright, I'm attempting to take this guy on now. I'm not the best at debate, as I usually just read you guys do it rather than partake in it myself, but I'll see what I can do. Hopefully, this shouldn't be too hard since he's still hung up on the single timeline. The only problem I can foresee is Volvagia_slayer shrugging off Aonuma's official quotes.

Edited by Jarsh, 27 June 2009 - 12:44 AM.

[Average Gamer]

Exactly how bad is the IGN board? Like, is there a topic you can show which demonstrates that level of idiocy? I mean, if GameFAQs has decent timeline topics, IGN can't be that terrible, can it?

Before you read this thread, keep in mind that the member named Volvagia_slayer is supposed to be IGN's main Zelda "intellectual".

http://boards.ign.co...81048805/p1/?20

Alright, I'm attempting to take this guy on now. I'm not the best at debate, as I usually just read you guys do it rather than partake in it myself, but I'll see what I can do. Hopefully, this shouldn't be too hard since he's still hung up on the single timeline. The only problem I can foresee is Volvagia_slayer shrugging off Aonuma's official quotes.

Good luck Jarsh.

[Jarsh]

Exactly how bad is the IGN board? Like, is there a topic you can show which demonstrates that level of idiocy? I mean, if GameFAQs has decent timeline topics, IGN can't be that terrible, can it?

Before you read this thread, keep in mind that the member named Volvagia_slayer is supposed to be IGN's main Zelda "intellectual".

http://boards.ign.co...81048805/p1/?20

Alright, I'm attempting to take this guy on now. I'm not the best at debate, as I usually just read you guys do it rather than partake in it myself, but I'll see what I can do. Hopefully, this shouldn't be too hard since he's still hung up on the single timeline. The only problem I can foresee is Volvagia_slayer shrugging off Aonuma's official quotes.

Good luck Jarsh.

Thank you, I appreciate it. He seems to be talking of The Legend of the Fairy as single timeline evidence, along with how multiple realities would be established by the Hero of Time's time traveling, rather than two split timelines. I guess he doesn't really consider the whole Song of Storms paradox in OoT, well, a paradox.

[MikePetersSucks]

A typical argument for the Legend of the Fairy thing, if he refuses to accept it as a mere Easter Egg, is that Termina and other worlds like that didn't have their timelines split, as time certainly flows differently in completely separate worlds, so Tingle of MM could theoretically visit the Adult Timeline of TWW.

[Duke Serkol]

Yes, I came to that same conclusion.

[Average Gamer]

Isn't it also likely that the Tingle in TWW is the Hyrulian counterpart of the Tingle in MM? In other words, Hylian Tingle heard about the Hero of Time and made up some legend of his own.

[Jarsh]

Thank you for the advice, gentlemen (hopefully got the gender thing correct). Although it may have been intended as only gameplay mechanic, Termina's time flowed much more slowly.

[Person]

Thank you for the advice, gentlemen (hopefully got the gender thing correct). Although it may have been intended as only gameplay mechanic, Termina's time flowed much more slowly.

MM and OoT time travel also work entirely differently. OoT's "traveling to the future" is simply going to sleep for seven years, not jumping through time, so there's a stable loop. Then the loop is broken when Zelda uses the Ocarina to send him back before he gets the Master Sword.

[Duke Serkol]

Actually isn't Termina's time supposed to flow faster considering that Tatl was with Skull Kid when he got the mask yet doesn't know about all the mischief he's caused with it in Termina as she and Link discover it firsthand later? Not to mention that while separated from his sibling, Tael managed to discover the only thing that could stop him (the giants).

Jumbie's theory, remember?

[MikePetersSucks]

Time flows both faster and slower at the same time. Narnia made it work, so can Termina.

[Showsni]

I start to argue about time travel, then I just get bogged down thinking how stupid any time travel is and that it can't work. (Except in the usual way, forward in time at one second per second...)

[Jarsh]

I believe I am done seriously discussing with Volvagia_slayer. It is hard to change one's opinion on a matter when they're so adamant about it. I am not the only one in the thread who has pointed out flaws in a single timeline and handed him developer's quotes (he just disregards these). Every time I mention that OoT's time travel shouldn't be examined too closely as it was intended as a gameplay mechanic before a story mechanic, he doesn't reply to this. As Showsni has pointed out, it is ridiculous to argue about time travel.

[Average Gamer]

I believe I am done seriously discussing with Volvagia_slayer. It is hard to change one's opinion on a matter when they're so adamant about it. I am not the only one in the thread who has pointed out flaws in a single timeline and handed him developer's quotes (he just disregards these). Every time I mention that OoT's time travel shouldn't be examined too closely as it was intended as a gameplay mechanic before a story mechanic, he doesn't reply to this. As Showsni has pointed out, it is ridiculous to argue about time travel.

If it wouldn't be a hassle, could you please provide a link to the thread? I apologize if the link has already been posted.

[Person]

I believe I am done seriously discussing with Volvagia_slayer. It is hard to change one's opinion on a matter when they're so adamant about it. I am not the only one in the thread who has pointed out flaws in a single timeline and handed him developer's quotes (he just disregards these). Every time I mention that OoT's time travel shouldn't be examined too closely as it was intended as a gameplay mechanic before a story mechanic, he doesn't reply to this. As Showsni has pointed out, it is ridiculous to argue about time travel.

If it wouldn't be a hassle, could you please provide a link to the thread? I apologize if the link has already been posted.

Yeah. I'm registered at IGN so I could help you out.

[Jarsh]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. Link is: the time line?

I'm new to debating, so if I messed up in any of my posts feel free to correct me.

[Average Gamer]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. Link is: the time line?

I'm new to debating, so if I messed up in any of my posts feel free to correct me.

Which member are you?

[Jarsh]

My apologies, I am 'RocThul' on that message board.

[Average Gamer]

I'm a little busy at the moment, but I'll try to help out:

The timeline split did not create two Links. There is only one Link on the Child Timeline and no Link on the Adult Timeline (at least until The Wind Waker, though it's technically not the same guy). This can help you when dealing with VS.

Now here's just a little thing I want to say; you don't really need the below against VS, I just want to express myself.

VS mentioned that he thought everything was meant to happen/ordained/whatever, but I personally think that we're supposed to see things from Link's perspective. By that I mean Link goes back in time to actually change stuff during the game, with the exception of the ending (split timeline).

Here are two examples of how I think things work in OoT:

1. Bongo Bongo breaks free. The Lens of Truth is collecting dust at the bottom of well.

-Link goes back in time and gets the Lens of Truth, changing history by having it not collect dust at the bottom of the well by the time Bongo Bongo breaks free.

2. Nabooru makes no progress with her plan to get the Silver Gauntlets and gets captured by Twinrova for being in the Spirit Temple.

-Link goes back in time and aids Nabooru by getting the Silver Gauntlets, changing history though Nabooru is still captured for being in the Spirit Temple.

As for the Song of Storms, that's an intentional joke; Nintendo's poking fun at themselves for using time travel.

Edit: I read more stuff from that thread. Since you're working with a "Link spoke with the King" angle, you could say that Link could prove himself to the king by playing the song of the royal family and the other songs as well as mentioning things that he could not have known otherwise (ex: temple locations, the Composer Brothers created a song to stop the dead, etc.) I doubt that he knew that he possessed the ToC, otherwise one would think that Link would realize that Ganondorf must have somehow had a Triforce piece as well and should have been sealed instead of killed.

Edited by Average Gamer, 03 July 2009 - 01:09 AM.

[Jarsh]

Good points, Average Gamer. I'm definitely saving these for when the best time arises. Also, good points on Link speaking with the king, editing my post as I type this.