Jump to content

IPBoard Styles©Fisana

Photo

Translation of Japanese Game Texts


  • Please log in to reply
1600 replies to this topic

#1351 FDL

FDL

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,634 posts
  • Location:Right behind you!
  • Gender:Male

Posted 28 March 2009 - 07:47 PM

Thanks so much jacen. I wonder if the "crisis" mentioned in the description of the green clothes is in reference to Ganondorf's invasion or something else.

#1352 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 04 April 2009 - 09:33 PM

Updated translation list. Again, please tell me if I'm missing something. It's not copy and paste friendly, unfortunately. Don't know if I can fix that, so I've included it as a text file.

Attached File  Translations.txt   10.25K   12 downloads

Twilight Princess

Rusl on Twilight:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry383551

Meeting Zelda:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry396158

Faron and Midna:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407421

Eldin:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry393149

Legendary Hero lines:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry434398

Hero's Shade:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404670

Lanayru on the creation and history of Hyrule:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry369806

NPC on the Twili:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry393081

Zora Armor:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry432453

First meeting with Zant:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry393006

Zelda's Sacrifice:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry395001

Auru on Arbiter's Grounds:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry383194

History of the Twili:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry379504

Execution of Ganondorf:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry370794

Rusl on the Temple of Time:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry373956

Shad on the Oocca:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry378880

Impaz on Sheikah and Oocca:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry395493

Removed Ending and Midna before Palace of Twilight:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry394045

Midna in Palace of Twilight:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry398219
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry398496

Removed Twili lines:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry398515

End of Zant:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404516

Ganondorf and Midna:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry371507

Ending:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry395014

Four Swords Adventures

Intro:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry380902
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry381858

Yellow Maiden on Palace of Winds/Death Mountain:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry382849
(Also includes TP Hero's Bow)

Dampe on the Dark Mirror:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry379064

White Maiden on Dark Mirror:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry389244

Red Maiden on Ganondorf
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry388489

Red Knight:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry383651

Trident inscription:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry370297
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry391001
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry429253

Trident:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry391024
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry430071
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry429274

Tower of Winds (Ganon):
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry390929

Removed sages:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry389605

Removed IW hints:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry423623

Ocarina of Time

Kokiri and Deku Tree:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry398511

http://forums.legend...mp;#entry427038

Zelda:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry427216

Impa:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry428485

Composer brothers:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry420121

Guard (and other non-OoT stuff):
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry430071

Ganondorf, the Master Sword and the Temple of Time:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry424998

Kaepora Gaebora and Meeting Sheik:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry391418

Deku Tree Sprout:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry426198

Sages:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry429023

Spirit Temple:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry429216

Legend of the Triforce:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry374456

Ending:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404617

Majora's Mask

Intro:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry386377

Zelda flashback:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry406658

Beginning scenes:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407461

First trip to Clock Tower:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407512

The Giants:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407607

Kaepora Gaebora, King Ikana
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407654

Garo:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407699

More Ikana:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407823
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407843

Sharp and Flat:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry408223

Fourth Giant, Carnival of Time, Four Giants:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407674

Calling the Giants:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407749

The Moon:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407760

Ending:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry390396
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry407809

The Wind Waker

The Legendary Hero:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry396511

Outset Island, and KoRL on Ganon:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404258

Deku Tree, Jabun, Gohdan, Ganondorf at Forsaken Fortress:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404295

King Hyrule:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404320

KoRL on Temples and HoT:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404348

Sages:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404380

Hero of Winds to HoT reborn:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404445

Ending:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry404472

Corrections:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry405275

The Legend of the Fairy (insert massive sigh here):
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry383079

Other Games

Phantom Hourglass:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry393757
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry409205
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry409749

OoA:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry406378

OoS Linked:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry406394

OoA Zelda:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry415139

LA ending:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry419926

TMC ending:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry377790

KnS:
http://bszelda.zelda...kibanvot1.shtml
http://bszelda.zelda...kibanvot2.shtml
http://bszelda.zelda...ideotran1.shtml

Boxes and Manuals

ALttP box:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry385394

ALttP GBA manual:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry397698

Four Swords manual:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry397816

LA manual:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry387752

OoS manual:
http://forums.legend...mp;#entry430596

Edit: Fixed the MM list.
Edit 2: Ordered the TP and FSA lists, fixed a mistake or two, and added a couple of missing translations.

Edited by Impossible, 05 April 2009 - 04:12 AM.


#1353 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 05 April 2009 - 03:45 AM

Apparently, someone asked for this recently, but nobody bothered to use the search function conveniently located at the bottom of the page, which would have revealed that it has NOT been translated:

Say... Link! You're alive and well!
Tell me, did you find anything of interest at the Arbiter's Grounds in the
desert?
The sages... Those sages once served the royal family, actually. They were
appointed as tutors to the young Princess Zelda.
It was from them that I first heard tales of the accursed mirror in the
Arbiter's Grounds.


I'm surprised we don't have this... I just stumbled on to it while I was trying to sort my TP list in a proper order, to improve the above post. And we haven't had much to ask for translations of lately, so I'm sure jacen will appreciate this. >_>

Also, I posted this a while back, but it wasn't translated:

You have at last mastered all of the hidden skills.
Although I accepted life as the hero, I could not convey the lessons of that
life to those who came after. At last, I have eased my regrets.
You who have marched through countless foes, each mightier than the last...
You, who now gaze to the future with vision unclouded...
Surely you can restore Hyrule to its stature of yore as the chosen land of the
gods.
...Farewell!
Go and do not falter, my child!


While we're on the subject, this one wouldn't hurt, although I doubt it will tell us much:

A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage.
You may be destined to become the hero of legend...but your current power would
disgrace the proud green of the hero's tunic you wear.
You must use your courage to seek power...and find it you must. Only then will
you become the hero for whom this world despairs.
If you do find true courage, and you wish to save Hyrule from the horrors it
now faces...
Then you will be worthy to receive the secrets I hold!


If Jumbie appears again, I'd love to know what he/she/it thinks of the Hero's Shade quotes in general. Which I apparently missed in the list above, and shall now add. >_>

Edited by Impossible, 05 April 2009 - 06:51 PM.


#1354 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 09 April 2009 - 10:45 PM

Another TP one, I can't believe we don't have this. >_> I guess because it occurs in a brief scene, not the ones before and after that we already had:

An impressive-looking blade...
But nothing more.
Would you hear my desire?
To take this foul blade...and use it to blot out the light forever!


It actually seems like he's talking about his sword, not the MS, but then, he's deriding his own weapon for some reason...

#1355 Duke Serkol

Duke Serkol

    Famicom

  • ZL Staff
  • 1,413 posts

Posted 10 April 2009 - 08:39 AM

Didn't we have that translated along with the unused lines from that speech which I found in the text dump?

#1356 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 10 April 2009 - 09:15 AM

No, that translation started from after Ganon's defeat. This is right before the final battle, and we don't have any translations from those scenes outside Hyrule Castle at the end, except for those after the final battle.

#1357 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 17 April 2009 - 11:59 PM

So... does anyone know what happened to jacen?

Edit: Apparently he was translating KnS. Nice work. Not much of interest in there, but still great to have access to. The translation of the part explaining Ganon having taken the Triforce is a bit weird, though, I think it makes more sense in the one used for the earlier weeks (I assume it's the same narration).

Speaking of which, what happened to GlitterBerri? As well as the KnS voice acting, she was also translating some Japanese interviews (for MPS, that's one of the ones we were discussing). I hope that's going to continue. There are quite a few we still don't have. The 1101.com interviews are really interesting, because they involve members of basically every part of the development team, discussing how they developed basically every facet of the game (gameplay, various design aspects, art and characters, music)... Except, for some reason, the story! Dammit. Even that IW quote was actually just in the OoT one as a miscellaneous detail, along with many non-story things. I'd really love to see the developers talk about the ideas behind TWW's story, and I'd like that one translated just to be safe (there is a LOT there), but they don't seem to ever have done that in a way that would shed light on what we want to know. Even if it doesn't directly give any timeline information, which I wouldn't expect it to, I just think it would be interesting and valuable to hear about that side, while we're hearing everything else. They do have a script writer there, but going through an Internet-translated version, it didn't seem like he ever talked much about the story. Maybe it was too soon for spoilers, as this was around the game's release. It would be nice to have a later one, and TWW isn't the only game I wish we'd gotten an interview like that for.

Edited by Impossible, 19 April 2009 - 07:57 AM.


#1358 Duke Serkol

Duke Serkol

    Famicom

  • ZL Staff
  • 1,413 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 01:42 PM

...yeah I probably should have posted news of this earlier, uh?
My bad.

The introduction for week 1 was different (not just translated differently). And I can't really see how the translation of week 3 makes more sense than that of two (differences seem only stylistical to me)

As for Glitter Berri... maybe someone gave her a little too much work all at one time? :P
At any rate, she is still involved with the English voice acting project.

Edited by Duke Serkol, 21 April 2009 - 01:46 PM.


#1359 jacensolo06

jacensolo06

    Archer

  • ZL Staff
  • 204 posts
  • Location:AL
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 April 2009 - 02:27 PM

So... does anyone know what happened to jacen?

Sorry, I was planning on getting to those translations after completing Week 3 of AST, but I've been really busy this past week and haven't been able to do any Zelda translating.
I'll get to it when I have time.

#1360 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:02 PM

The introduction for week 1 was different (not just translated differently). And I can't really see how the translation of week 3 makes more sense than that of two (differences seem only stylistical to me)


I was referring to:

The legendary kingdom of Hyrule.
Six years ago, this land was at peace.
However, in its troubled past,
the leader of the thieves Ganondorf
obtained the Triforce, became the demon king Ganon,
and attempted to conquer the land.


The legendary kingdom of Hyrule. Six years ago,
this land was at peace. But before that the leader
of a group of thieves, Ganondorf, obtained the Triforce,
became the Demon King Ganon and conquered this land.


Maybe it makes sense if the wording is different, it's just a bit less clear in the second one. Can't remember if there was another thing like this now.

#1361 Duke Serkol

Duke Serkol

    Famicom

  • ZL Staff
  • 1,413 posts

Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:00 PM

Yeah, basically GlitterBerri and I debated how to go about translating that part.
What we had was essentially the second version but we didn't feel very happy about it, so we decided "Screw it, let's make it sound better."
But whether you say "before that" or "in Hyrule's troubled past" (which we know is troubled since we're about to describe the troubles) doesn't really make a difference because we're not saying how long ago either way.

...and I notice only now that Jacen's translation says he conquered the land, not that he attempted to. Wonder what's up with that.

#1362 FDL

FDL

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,634 posts
  • Location:Right behind you!
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 April 2009 - 10:19 PM

Thanks to DS, jacen, and GlitterBerri(though I don't know her personally) for working on the AST stuff, it's always interesting to hear about that game. And thanks to Impossible for organizing everything so well/finding the loose ends that haven't been translated yet. Incidentally, I think I saw you(Impossible) talking about Chuck on the GameFAQs boards? If so, good to see another fan of Chuck. I might kill myself if it doesn't get renewed. :lol:

#1363 jacensolo06

jacensolo06

    Archer

  • ZL Staff
  • 204 posts
  • Location:AL
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 April 2009 - 11:20 PM

Here's the TP translations Impossible requested. Including another major NoA screw up.

First the two Hero's Shade ones:

勇無き剣に 力は宿らぬ
A sword lacking courage houses no power.

A sword wields no strength unless the hand that holds it has courage.

運命に翻弄され勇者になった身とはいえ、今のお前の力では その緑の衣が泣くわ
Even if you are the one to become the hero for fate to toy with, your current power makes that green tunic weep.

You may be destined to become the hero of legend...but your current power would disgrace the proud green of the hero's tunic you wear.

勇をなし、力を得んとすることは すなわち 力を得、勇をなすこと
Without courage, you cannot obtain power. To obtain power is to build up courage.

You must use your courage to seek power...and find it you must. Only then will you become the hero for whom this world despairs.

お前が真の勇気を得て この未曾有の危機に瀕したハイラルを その手で救いたいと願うのならば
If you wish to gain true courage and save Hyrule from the unprecedented danger that approaches…

If you do find true courage, and you wish to save Hyrule from the horrors it now faces...

我が奥義、その身をもって習得するがいい!
Then learn my special techniques!

Then you will be worthy to receive the secrets I hold!


ついに、全ての奥義を手にしたな
You have finally acquired all of the special techniques.

You have at last mastered all of the hidden skills.

勇者として生をうけながら 後世にそれを伝えることの出来なかった 我が無念も、ようやく晴らすことが出来た
I accepted the life of the hero, but was unable to pass these along to those who came after. Finally, my regrets have been dispelled.

Although I accepted life as the hero, I could not convey the lessons of that life to those who came after. At last, I have eased my regrets.

幾多の戦いを経て なお、曇りなき眼で未来を見据えるそなたなら
If you fight numerous battles and continue to focus on the future with undimmed eyes…

You who have marched through countless foes, each mightier than the last... You, who now gaze to the future with vision unclouded...

必ずや、このハイラルを在りし日の 神々が愛でた大地に戻すことが出来るだろう
You will surely be able to return Hyrule to being the land of yore that the gods loved.

Surely you can restore Hyrule to its stature of yore as the chosen land of the gods.

・・・さらばだ!
…Farewell!

...Farewell!

怯まずに進め、我が子よ!
Advance without faltering, my child!

Go and do not falter, my child!


Here's Ganondorf talking about his sword:

見事な剣よ・・・
A beautiful sword…

An impressive-looking blade...

だが、余興はそこまでだ・・・
But the entertainment ends there...

But nothing more.

我が望みは一つ
I have one wish.

Would you hear my desire?

この忌まわしき剣をもって 全ての光を葬り去らん!
To use this abominable sword to consign all light to oblivion!

To take this foul blade...and use it to blot out the light forever!


And here's where NoA screwed up:

おお・・・ リンク殿! 心配しておりました
Oh… Link-dono! I was worried about you.

Say... Link! You're alive and well!

やはり、あの砂漠の処刑場には 何かがありましたか・・・?
Did you find anything in those desert execution grounds…?

Tell me, did you find anything of interest at the Arbiter's Grounds in the desert?

実は、老輩はその昔、ハイラル王家に仕え ゼルダ様のご幼少のみぎりに 教育係を仰せつかっておりましてな
The truth is, I used to serve the Hyrule Royal Family by being the one appointed to educate Princess Zelda when she was young.

The sages... Those sages once served the royal family, actually. They were appointed as tutors to the young Princess Zelda.

処刑場にある 呪われた鏡のことは その頃に 聞いた話なのです
That is when I heard about the cursed mirror that resides in the execution grounds.

It was from them that I first heard tales of the accursed mirror in the Arbiter's Grounds.

I'm not sure how NoA screwed this one up. The sages are never even mentioned in the Japanese.

#1364 Duke Serkol

Duke Serkol

    Famicom

  • ZL Staff
  • 1,413 posts

Posted 25 April 2009 - 08:14 AM

I hope Lex sees this: he has way too much faith in Bill Trinnen *lol*

Edited by Duke Serkol, 25 April 2009 - 08:15 AM.


#1365 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 25 April 2009 - 08:28 AM

No, Lex likes to selectively attack Bill Trinen whenever it would hurt him to accept that he might know something. But, much like with his claim that Trinen lack's credibility due to the TMC ending issue, it's ridiculous to blame Trinen when we don't know who was responsible for that exact line. Mistakes happen, anyway. That is a pretty big one, but it's not like they were keeping any important story or timeline details from anywhere else in the game or series in mind when they wrote it. It doesn't affect anything, fortunately. And things will be brushed over, remembering that they have to translate thousands of lines of text in a short space of time.

Is there any indication in the part about the sword as to what exactly Ganon is referring to?

#1366 FDL

FDL

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 1,634 posts
  • Location:Right behind you!
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 April 2009 - 11:12 AM

Holy shit. I'm not sure what to think, I actually sorta liked the idea that the Sages had a place in the Royal Family's affairs. Then again, I suppose it makes sense that they'd stay in the desert and keep watch over the mirror rather than leave it unguarded.

Edited by FDL, 25 April 2009 - 11:13 AM.


#1367 Duke Serkol

Duke Serkol

    Famicom

  • ZL Staff
  • 1,413 posts

Posted 25 April 2009 - 11:52 AM

Oh, that's exactly what I think too, Impossible.

I just said that because in a recent conversation I had, with Lex I'm pretty sure, I had a debate over whether it is opportune or not to re-translate newer Zelda games.
The point I was arguing against was that Bill Trinnen pays more attention to the storyline and is more competent than Dan Owsen, so that differences between the original Japanese meaning and the localizations made by him were to be accepted as intentional.
Needless to say, I could easily Drumpf this argument by bringing up the infamous TWW Mazoku mistranslation ;)

#1368 Raien

Raien

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 4,833 posts
  • Location:Luton
  • Gender:Male
  • United Kingdom

Posted 25 April 2009 - 12:32 PM

Dan Owsen made up things.
Bill Trinen changed things.

I don't consider Trinen more competent than Dan Owsen. I actually think TP's story is practically illegible thanks to Trinen & Co's bad translations; so many things just did not make sense upon playing the game.

Edited by Raien, 25 April 2009 - 12:32 PM.


#1369 Average Gamer

Average Gamer

    Master

  • Members
  • 818 posts
  • Location:The Haunted Wasteland

Posted 25 April 2009 - 12:39 PM

Thanks for the translations Jacen. It's interesting to see how those lines turned out.

Dan Owsen made up things.
Bill Trinen changed things.

I don't consider Trinen more competent than Dan Owsen. I actually think TP's story is practically illegible thanks to Trinen & Co's bad translations; so many things just did not make sense upon playing the game.


How so? How did Trinen and Co. make the story practically illegible?

Also, I wouldn't say that Trinen's group changed things so much as they got a translation wrong. It's like Impossible said; they have a lot to work on in a short period of time.

#1370 MikePetersSucks

MikePetersSucks

    Actual Japanese Person

  • ZL Staff
  • 4,174 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 25 April 2009 - 02:06 PM

It always struck me as extremely weird that the Sages tutored Zelda, imo. "Don't they have better things to do with their time?"

Then again, could you imagine poor little 7 year old Zelda going into this tutor room and these abominable beings of light with no faces are there and Daddy's all "Now stay with these guys, they'll tutor you" And then he just books it and shuts the door.

#1371 Crazy Penguin

Crazy Penguin

    Knight

  • Members
  • 729 posts

Posted 25 April 2009 - 02:47 PM

But, much like with his claim that Trinen lack's credibility due to the TMC ending issue


What was this?

#1372 Raien

Raien

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 4,833 posts
  • Location:Luton
  • Gender:Male
  • United Kingdom

Posted 25 April 2009 - 05:12 PM

How so? How did Trinen and Co. make the story practically illegible?


I couldn't grasp the relationship between the Light World and Twilight Realm and the mechanics of both realms. Considering the story involved a lot of jumping from one realm to another, not having the precise terminology made it nearly impossible to follow.

#1373 Average Gamer

Average Gamer

    Master

  • Members
  • 818 posts
  • Location:The Haunted Wasteland

Posted 25 April 2009 - 05:40 PM

I couldn't grasp the relationship between the Light World and Twilight Realm and the mechanics of both realms. Considering the story involved a lot of jumping from one realm to another, not having the precise terminology made it nearly impossible to follow.


Any particular examples you'd like to present?

#1374 Raien

Raien

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 4,833 posts
  • Location:Luton
  • Gender:Male
  • United Kingdom

Posted 25 April 2009 - 06:15 PM

Any particular examples you'd like to present?


Let me think...

-The Hyrulians' knowledge of the Twili. I remember some ambiguity got cleared up when Auru's initial lines were translated.

-The sealing of the Twili; knowing that the Sacred Realm in TP referred to Hyrule explained away a lot of problems I had with understanding what was going on when the Twili should have had possession of the Triforce (also explains why the Sacred Realm has no role in events in TP itself).

-The nature of Zant's abilities and his relationship to Ganondorf.

Eh, I'll admit it's not easy to distinguish the translation errors from what was a stupidly complicated plot. Still, the translation errors were what sent the story over the edge. I also think the fuck up with TWW deserves a mention; the fact that they failed to describe the sealing of the Demon Tribe created some major headaches.

Edited by Raien, 25 April 2009 - 06:17 PM.


#1375 Duke Serkol

Duke Serkol

    Famicom

  • ZL Staff
  • 1,413 posts

Posted 25 April 2009 - 07:04 PM

It always struck me as extremely weird that the Sages tutored Zelda, imo.

I thought it appropriate if not for one question it raised: "why isn't she the seventh sage this time?"

Then again, could you imagine poor little 7 year old Zelda going into this tutor room and these abominable beings of light with no faces are there and Daddy's all "Now stay with these guys, they'll tutor you" And then he just books it and shuts the door.

*lol!* You've got a very good point there...

knowing that the Sacred Realm in TP referred to Hyrule explained away a lot of problems I had

However, we don't actually know that Sacred Realm refers to Hyrule: we know that it can refer to Hyrule, just as it can refer to the other dimension where the Triforce has often been in other games. Can't blame poor Bill if the people at Nintendo can't seem to stick to their pre-established terminology...

#1376 Raien

Raien

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 4,833 posts
  • Location:Luton
  • Gender:Male
  • United Kingdom

Posted 25 April 2009 - 07:16 PM

However, we don't actually know that Sacred Realm refers to Hyrule: we know that it can refer to Hyrule, just as it can refer to the other dimension where the Triforce has often been in other games. Can't blame poor Bill if the people at Nintendo can't seem to stick to their pre-established terminology...


TP's script outright says that the term "Sacred Realm" refers to the kingdom of Hyrule on both occasions in which the term is used. Isn't that enough? Isn't outright saying "The Sacred Realm is the kingdom of Hyrule" not enough to make the point?

And no, I do not buy the "Triforce is said to be in Hyrule" argument; it ignores the changes in context that make distinguishing the Sacred Realm necessary in some games and unnecessary in others. If the Sacred Realm is actively involved in TP's story, it would need to be actively defined as another realm for the story to make sense. To do the exact opposite is a complete contradiction of that idea, and I think it destroys any possibility of the Sacred Realm being involved in TP's story.

Edited by Raien, 25 April 2009 - 08:01 PM.


#1377 Impossible

Impossible

    Mage

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 25 April 2009 - 08:00 PM

If a scriptwriter goes out of his way to describe a known term as something entirely different from what it usually is ON ALL OCCASIONS in which the term is used, that's a good enough confirmation that the original term is not meant to apply.


...You mean like saying "power of the gods" instead of "Triforce"? I don't see how it doesn't apply.

I don't consider Trinen more competent than Dan Owsen. I actually think TP's story is practically illegible thanks to Trinen & Co's bad translations; so many things just did not make sense upon playing the game.


This is a ridiculous overreaction. Compare the changes in ALttP's script to the ones in, say, TWW - hell, the TWW English script is better for a lot of scenes, although there are a couple of times I wish they'd been more faithful with the terminology used, rather than using fancier language. Incidentally, it's often that fancier language that creates the importance of or need for these retranslations, due to stupid literalists forcing their interpretation of it; that doesn't mean the old translation was wrong. The translations in TP aren't all "bad", they just had to translate and also rewrite for English-speaking audiences THOUSANDS OF LINES OF TEXT. It is not the same as taking a a couple of hours to do a precise literal translation of a particular scene.

Trinen IS more credible than Owsen in that he actually speaks Japanese fluently and actually doesn't just butcher the script. But with an entire team working on the game, things can get mixed up on occasion, despite the fact that in most cases, they can communicate with Aonuma and the development team to better understand the story. There are still times they won't do it, and still times where there's a major slip up, but there are something like two of these that actually impact the story itself in TP (the Oocca thing and something Jumbie did that escapes me right now). And the Japanese version doesn't make the relationship between Ganondorf and Zant more clear, it was simply a part of Japanese culture that, regardless of the language, you had to be familiar with to understand in the game. Which is more the fault of the original storywriters. In fact, most of TP's story problems are their fault...

Edited by Impossible, 25 April 2009 - 08:01 PM.


#1378 Raien

Raien

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 4,833 posts
  • Location:Luton
  • Gender:Male
  • United Kingdom

Posted 25 April 2009 - 08:10 PM

...You mean like saying "power of the gods" instead of "Triforce"? I don't see how it doesn't apply.


It doesn't apply because nowhere in TP is the "power of the gods" defined as something other than the Triforce. In TP, the Sacred Realm is openly defined as something other than the original Sacred Realm TWICE.

And just in case this old argument pops up, I do not buy it that the terms "Hyrule" and "Sacred Realm" are interchangeable. How are players supposed to know which one of the two separate entities the game is talking about if they share the same interchangeable name? It's a royal mindfuck! And even if the names are interchangeable, to contradict the actual specified definition that Nintendo refers to in the script is just plain ridiculous. "The Sacred Realm is the kingdom of Hyrule" says Nintendo. "The Sacred Realm is the other realm where the Triforce is" says the theorists. Jesus Christ...

This is a ridiculous overreaction. Compare the changes in ALttP's script to the ones in, say, TWW - hell, the TWW English script is better for a lot of scenes, although there are a couple of times I wish they'd been more faithful with the terminology used, rather than using fancier language. Incidentally, it's often that fancier language that creates the importance of or need for these retranslations, due to stupid literalists forcing their interpretation of it; that doesn't mean the old translation was wrong. The translations in TP aren't all "bad", they just had to translate and also rewrite for English-speaking audiences THOUSANDS OF LINES OF TEXT. It is not the same as taking a a couple of hours to do a precise literal translation of a particular scene.

Trinen IS more credible than Owsen in that he actually speaks Japanese fluently and actually doesn't just butcher the script. But with an entire team working on the game, things can get mixed up on occasion, despite the fact that in most cases, they can communicate with Aonuma and the development team to better understand the story. There are still times they won't do it, and still times where there's a major slip up, but there are something like two of these that actually impact the story itself in TP (the Oocca thing and something Jumbie did that escapes me right now). And the Japanese version doesn't make the relationship between Ganondorf and Zant more clear, it was simply a part of Japanese culture that, regardless of the language, you had to be familiar with to understand in the game. Which is more the fault of the original storywriters. In fact, most of TP's story problems are their fault...


If Trinen is not capable of accurately translating the game when the meaning hinges on a good translation, or insists upon forcing timeline connections that do not exist in the original text, then I have no faith in Trinen in my timeline theorising. Yes, he's a good translator otherwise, but I'm not here to talk about that. I'm here to talk about the official timeline, to which Trinen's translations are an impediment. That's why we've got an entire topic here dedicated to ignoring Trinen's translations.

Edited by Raien, 25 April 2009 - 09:25 PM.


#1379 Duke Serkol

Duke Serkol

    Famicom

  • ZL Staff
  • 1,413 posts

Posted 26 April 2009 - 08:56 AM

TP's script outright says that the term "Sacred Realm" refers to the kingdom of Hyrule on both occasions in which the term is used. Isn't that enough? Isn't outright saying "The Sacred Realm is the kingdom of Hyrule" not enough to make the point?

And no, I do not buy the "Triforce is said to be in Hyrule" argument

There seems to be a misunderstanding: I did not mean to debate what you buy and whay you rent. Your point of view is your own and you are certainly free to believe what you do. What I was talking about is facts: before TP the term Sacred Realm in Zelda always referred to another dimension, with one significant exception: in OoT Zelda tells us that the Triforce was left in Hyrule by the gods and that the place it resided in became the Sacred Realm.

So yeah, it's confusing and uncertain.

(I apologize for the heavy use of sarcasm in this post. It's meant as an attempt to be amusing, not aggressive ;))

#1380 Raien

Raien

    Famicom

  • Members
  • 4,833 posts
  • Location:Luton
  • Gender:Male
  • United Kingdom

Posted 26 April 2009 - 10:08 AM

Duke Serkol, why did you cut out the part of my post that directly addressed the point you just raised?

The Sacred Realm is a specific location defined in the Zelda mythos as "within the kingdom of Hyrule", not "the kingdom of Hyrule itself". The Sacred Realm is a pocket dimension that can only be accessed through specific spots in Hyrule to access the Triforce. If the Sacred Realm is completely ignored in quotation, then either it's due to the Sacred Realm's legendary status or it has no role to play in the game's story (just like the Sacred Realm and Sages were absent from TWW's introduction story).

And Nintendo cannot make the Sacred Realm an interchangeable definition for both the kingdom and the pocket dimension, for the same reason that they cannot make the Light World interchangeable with the Twilight Realm; it's a mindfuck for anyone reading the story. Two separate entities need two separate names to distinguish them, and the Sacred Realm has always been defined as a separate entity to the kingdom of Hyrule, with its own separate name. There is nothing uncertain or confusing about what the Sacred Realm is.

Nintendo knows this, they know the Sacred Realm has always been recognised as a specific location within Hyrule. That's why on both occasions in TP when they use the term, they actively explain that in this particular context, ther term "Sacred Realm" does not refer to that pocket dimension where the Triforce lies hidden. In the context of TP, the kingdom of Hyrule is itself the holy land; the story is that the new Hero will restore the kingdom's former glory as the holy land. There is nothing confusing about this; the Sacred Realm in TP is the holy kingdom of Hyrule. The pocket dimension has no part to play in TP's story.

Edited by Raien, 26 April 2009 - 12:50 PM.





Copyright © 2022 Zelda Legends