215 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

It's incorrect, last I checked that comment was about Four Swords (one of them, anyway), not TMC. People just apply it to TMC retrospectively given that it is a prequel to the Four Swords games. Therefore the initial statement was wrong as neither of the FS games are the first game in the story. Whether TMC is the first game in the story, we don't know. The fact that he went around his previous idea for the 'first game', and that virtually nobody places the Four Sword games right at the start of the timeline makes me question whether people are actually listening to the developer statements or just, as I do suspect, bending them to apply to whatever they damn well want.

[LionHarted]

There was a statement that the story of TMC is "very old."
However, this is supposedly true of any of the stories in the mythos, so that statement really amounts to nothing.
A number of people interpreted it as pointing to TMC as first, though, and the confusion erupted from that.

Your point stands, though. People will misrepresent anything to see what they want to see.

Edited by LionHarted, 21 September 2007 - 06:48 PM.

[SOAP]

Oh right. Then yes, Fyxe is right as usual.

*grumble grumble*

[Hero of Legend]

It's incorrect, last I checked that comment was about Four Swords (one of them, anyway), not TMC.

...Well, that sucks.

People will misrepresent anything to see what they want to see.

Listen to this man folks, he knows from experience.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 21 September 2007 - 07:49 PM.

[LionHarted]

Listen to this man folks, he knows from experience.

Filling in plotholes with stretching speculation (which I admit to doing and enjoying) is not the same as lying about what developers have revealed.

[ShadyUltima]

If this was to be the case, then obviouslyan event occurred or the mountain became very dangerous or something like that for it to have its name changed. If TMC was not first, I doubt that Death mountain's named would be changed to Mount Crenel and then changed back.

*cough*Great Flood*cough*

*cough*reinhabited in the FSA era*cough*

Or they could've just evolved to suit the whole Flood crap. There were legends of the Kokiri having human form before Link ever joined their society.

These are both correct IMO. I think that TMC takes place AFTER the TWW. I have not completed TMC yet, but my reasoning is that, after link and tetra/zelda founded a new Hyrule, they named a new mountain Mount Crenel. Death Mountain is still at the bottom of the giant ocean.

The Koroks are not the Kokiri... they're the descendants of the Kokiri. I took that as the fact that they evolved from the fairy style Kokiri to the wood creatures. It fit what they had to do, spread the forest. As little kids, that would be a lot harder than as the little wood creatures.

Answer: The clothes Link wears are just a *very* common medieval attire. Look at Robin Hood. Look at Peter Pan (though not medieval). Look at the man in AoL's manual who wears the same green-brown clothes as Link (even sharing the hat!).
And you'll find even more Hylians wearing the same clothes in a different colour than green.
As for the Kokiri's fashion, look at what dwarves are usually depicted wearing - a pointed hat and a tunic with belt, ain't it?!

And here is correct. It's just basic medieval clothing


Here's my thought. When Link defeats Ganondorf in TWW, Ganondorf turns to stone and sinks... with the master sword still in his head. Tetra/Zelda and Link found a new Hyrule, and when evil threatens this new Hyrule, they're in trouble because they don't have the Master Sword any longer. The picori appeared in this new Hyrule, and they gave the Picori blade to that Hero.
Then, after, comes TMC...

Again, could be wrong, but if I am whatever.

[SOAP]

If this was to be the case, then obviouslyan event occurred or the mountain became very dangerous or something like that for it to have its name changed. If TMC was not first, I doubt that Death mountain's named would be changed to Mount Crenel and then changed back.

*cough*Great Flood*cough*

*cough*reinhabited in the FSA era*cough*

Or they could've just evolved to suit the whole Flood crap. There were legends of the Kokiri having human form before Link ever joined their society.

These are both correct IMO. I think that TMC takes place AFTER the TWW. I have not completed TMC yet, but my reasoning is that, after link and tetra/zelda founded a new Hyrule, they named a new mountain Mount Crenel. Death Mountain is still at the bottom of the giant ocean.

The Koroks are not the Kokiri... they're the descendants of the Kokiri. I took that as the fact that they evolved from the fairy style Kokiri to the wood creatures. It fit what they had to do, spread the forest. As little kids, that would be a lot harder than as the little wood creatures.

Answer: The clothes Link wears are just a *very* common medieval attire. Look at Robin Hood. Look at Peter Pan (though not medieval). Look at the man in AoL's manual who wears the same green-brown clothes as Link (even sharing the hat!).
And you'll find even more Hylians wearing the same clothes in a different colour than green.
As for the Kokiri's fashion, look at what dwarves are usually depicted wearing - a pointed hat and a tunic with belt, ain't it?!

And here is correct. It's just basic medieval clothing


Here's my thought. When Link defeats Ganondorf in TWW, Ganondorf turns to stone and sinks... with the master sword still in his head. Tetra/Zelda and Link found a new Hyrule, and when evil threatens this new Hyrule, they're in trouble because they don't have the Master Sword any longer. The picori appeared in this new Hyrule, and they gave the Picori blade to that Hero.
Then, after, comes TMC...

Again, could be wrong, but if I am whatever.

I agree with all of that except that I think it's easier to just say the Kokiri and Koroks are the same beings, that they're forest spirits created by the Deku Tree and take on whatever form the Deku Tree wills them to, whether it's as human children for for the human Link to identify with or as living plants to avoid human detection. There's no evidence that the Koroks are direct decendants of the Kokiri or that they're in anyway different species from the Kokiri. They talk about once living in houses that resembled tree stumps and once taking the form of human children before they lived in fear of humans. It's pretty straight forward that the Korok form is just another camouflage not a sudden jump in evolution. And besides I much rather not think about children having sex with each other and having plants for babies...

[CID Farwin]

If this was to be the case, then obviouslyan event occurred or the mountain became very dangerous or something like that for it to have its name changed. If TMC was not first, I doubt that Death mountain's named would be changed to Mount Crenel and then changed back.

*cough*Great Flood*cough*

*cough*reinhabited in the FSA era*cough*

Or they could've just evolved to suit the whole Flood crap. There were legends of the Kokiri having human form before Link ever joined their society.

These are both correct IMO. I think that TMC takes place AFTER the TWW. I have not completed TMC yet, but my reasoning is that, after link and tetra/zelda founded a new Hyrule, they named a new mountain Mount Crenel. Death Mountain is still at the bottom of the giant ocean.

The Koroks are not the Kokiri... they're the descendants of the Kokiri. I took that as the fact that they evolved from the fairy style Kokiri to the wood creatures. It fit what they had to do, spread the forest. As little kids, that would be a lot harder than as the little wood creatures.

Answer: The clothes Link wears are just a *very* common medieval attire. Look at Robin Hood. Look at Peter Pan (though not medieval). Look at the man in AoL's manual who wears the same green-brown clothes as Link (even sharing the hat!).
And you'll find even more Hylians wearing the same clothes in a different colour than green.
As for the Kokiri's fashion, look at what dwarves are usually depicted wearing - a pointed hat and a tunic with belt, ain't it?!

And here is correct. It's just basic medieval clothing


Here's my thought. When Link defeats Ganondorf in TWW, Ganondorf turns to stone and sinks... with the master sword still in his head. Tetra/Zelda and Link found a new Hyrule, and when evil threatens this new Hyrule, they're in trouble because they don't have the Master Sword any longer. The picori appeared in this new Hyrule, and they gave the Picori blade to that Hero.
Then, after, comes TMC...

Again, could be wrong, but if I am whatever.

I agree with all of that except that I think it's easier to just say the Kokiri and Koroks are the same beings, that they're forest spirits created by the Deku Tree and take on whatever form the Deku Tree wills them to, whether it's as human children for for the human Link to identify with or as living plants to avoid human detection. There's no evidence that the Koroks are direct decendants of the Kokiri or that they're in anyway different species from the Kokiri. They talk about once living in houses that resembled tree stumps and once taking the form of human children before they lived in fear of humans. It's pretty straight forward that the Korok form is just another camouflage not a sudden jump in evolution. And besides I much rather not think about children having sex with each other and having plants for babies...

.....PICMAN!

*shutters*

Yes, it's much easier to just say that they're the same.

That's a really good theory on TMC, Ultima. The Picori sword... I don't think I've seen that one before.

[LionHarted]

I always fancied the idea of the Picori Blade being forged to protect the new kingdom, too, and the Light Force being given to the royal family to restore the magical abilities seemingly lost since the flood.

Sometime between TWW/PH/TMC backstory and TMC, LoZ/AoL and the Oracles games could conceivably happen, and either a new Master Sword or the old one (note that it is a Zora who gives it to you, if you go a certain route) is forged/returned to fend off the imminent return of Ganon.

[SOAP]

I always fancied the idea of the Picori Blade being forged to protect the new kingdom, too, and the Light Force being given to the royal family to restore the magical abilities seemingly lost since the flood.

Sometime between TWW/PH/TMC backstory and TMC, LoZ/AoL and the Oracles games could conceivably happen, and either a new Master Sword or the old one (note that it is a Zora who gives it to you, if you go a certain route) is forged/returned to fend off the imminent return of Ganon.

I don't think Oracles have any realtionship with FS games. In a split timeline they make more sense taking place between ALttP and LoZ or at the very end. I actually fancy Oracles being parallel to TMC, to explain the similarities and the appareances of the Oracles in TMC. (Different versions of the same people whose roles in destiny differ in different timelines)

[LionHarted]

I would personally say that I like TMC coming after Oracles; the Oracles fulfill their destinies in the Oracle games, then their descendants later move to Hyrule Kingdom. (This, IMO, is the best way to include the character flow between those games. I like to take advantage of whatever the games have to offer, Easter Egg or no.)

I would personally also say that I like LoZ/AoL coming after TWW/PH, to mark the beginning of the prosperity of the new Hyrule kingdom with the uniting of the Triforce in those games' ending. (Although, on another note, Aonuma has said that he believes PH has effectively become an "updated version" of the original game?)

(Yes, this means I don't place ALttP before LoZ. Which creator said it was there, anyway?)

Edited by LionHarted, 27 September 2007 - 10:12 AM.

[SOAP]

I would personally say that I like TMC coming after Oracles; the Oracles fulfill their destinies in the Oracle games, then their descendants later move to Hyrule Kingdom. (This, IMO, is the best way to include the character flow between those games. I like to take advantage of whatever the games have to offer, Easter Egg or no.)

I would personally also say that I like LoZ/AoL coming after TWW/PH, to mark the beginning of the prosperity of the new Hyrule kingdom with the uniting of the Triforce in those games' ending. (Although, on another note, Aonuma has said that he believes PH has effectively become an "updated version" of the original game?)

(Yes, this means I don't place ALttP before LoZ. Which creator said it was there, anyway?)

Yeah but putting Oracles before TMC doesn't flow too well with TWW, which flows much nicer straight forward into TMC. You have the Triumph Fork references (an easter egg but still) and the Triforce is long forgotten, either still buried beneath the sea or became vaguely known as the Light Force (if you subscribe to that theory). Also there is no Master Sword. It flows much nicer to have the flood to explain why these things are no longer there to have them there in Oracles which had a perfectly peaceful ending.

[CID Farwin]

Yeah, there's really only 2 places TMC can go: First, or after TWW/PH.

(Yes, this means I don't place ALttP before LoZ. Which creator said it was there, anyway?)

I'm not aware of anyone saying that. When it was released I think it was marketed to be "the ancestors of Link and Zelda" or whatever. It might have also said it on the box.

With no other information except the Myamoto timeline, that's just what we assume, because there's no reason to think otherwise(unless of course you make a timeline where it fits better somewhere else.)

[SOAP]

I have no problem placing LoZ/AoL in between TWW/PH and TMC. I once had a theory like that. AoL Hyrule was the newly founded Hyrule and LoZ Hyrule was the Old Hyrule resurfaced via draining of the sea with forest magic.

[LionHarted]

I'd post PH-related reasons why I think LoZ/AoL/TMC/FS/FSA come after TWW, but I'd get shot.

[Arturo]

Use spoiler tags?

[LionHarted]

"Force Gems", known to be the power source of the Four Sword, appear in PH to be related to the "force" that represents the life force of the people. In PH, this "force" is extracted from people and crystallized, becoming what is known of in PH as the "Sands of Time". The Sands of Time, then, are tiny shards of "force." "Force gems" would be larger pieces of "force." The "Light Force" is, it seems, the source of unlimited "force" gifted to the royal family. The "Triforce" is the "force" of the gods. This is why, I would say, Force Gems, the Light Force, and the Triforce all appear as triangles. "Force" is itself triangular by nature.

What does this have to do with TMC? The Hyrule of TMC is largely without memory of events seen in Hyrule in OoT, but also features a number of elements from TWW/PH (Beedle setting up shop on land, as he plans in TWW; "Triumph Forks"; Gorons fairly spread out and living in caves; Zoras missing), as well as geographical similarities to FS/FSA/ALttP (and the obvious storyline link to FS/FSA).

As for LoZ/AoL, a group of islands in the northeastern corner of PH

(1) vaguely resemble the world explored in AoL;
(2) are apparently also the seat of an ancient kingdom.

If LoZ/AoL, the Oracle games, and TMC all follow TWW/PH, these elements will all link together rather nicely.

(1) Presuming a new kingdom is established, of course, this would allow for ALttP and the other 2D games to be in the Adult Timeline, where we know the Sacred Realm has been sealed. This leaves the Child Timeline as essentially a blank slate, free to pursue it's own avenues, without having to be tied down to the ALttP story. I would like to think this is the case, but I am obviously not the creators.
(2) It would allow for the Miyamoto timeline (which has not really been contradicted, except in fan's minds) to be accurate (OoT-LoZ/AoL-ALttP).
(3) It would allow for the reappearance of the Master Sword in OoX, the movement of the Oracles to Hyrule in TMC, and the "Triumph Forks" reference to all be acceptable as canon, without having to write them off as storyline exceptions.

[CID Farwin]

That wasn't so hard, was it?

I'm not going to read it because I want to actually play it.

[MikePetersSucks]

.....PICMAN!

*shutters*

Urhrhrhrhr. If I ever get a new screenname, it'd be PicmanSucks.

[SOAP]

.....PICMAN!

*shutters*

Urhrhrhrhr. If I ever get a new screenname, it'd be PicmanSucks.

It's official. PICMAN is Mike Peters Jr.

[Arturo]

People, no flaming here, please ^^

[SOAP]

People, no flaming here, please ^^

Don't worry Arturo. You're still the biggest flamer around.

[Arturo]

Hm, what. No.

*Flames his ex-husband*

ALL LIES.

[SOAP]

Hm, what. No.

*Flames his ex-husband*

ALL LIES.

Hey, hey. You were the "wife" after all, amirite?

[MikePetersSucks]

.....Did I miss something?

[Arturo]

Enough off-topic conversation, guys...

[The Missing Link]

"Force Gems", known to be the power source of the Four Sword, appear in PH to be related to the "force" that represents the life force of the people. In PH, this "force" is extracted from people and crystallized, becoming what is known of in PH as the "Sands of Time". The Sands of Time, then, are tiny shards of "force." "Force gems" would be larger pieces of "force." The "Light Force" is, it seems, the source of unlimited "force" gifted to the royal family. The "Triforce" is the "force" of the gods. This is why, I would say, Force Gems, the Light Force, and the Triforce all appear as triangles. "Force" is itself triangular by nature.

LionHarted, that part right there--at least as it is related to Phantom Hourglass--is a huge leap of logic that the game text does not readily support.

However, and this is perhaps the coup de grâce of my point, Force Gems ARE mentioned in the game in an entirely different capacity. However, they're merely the triangular pieces that you have to place upon the pedestals in the Temple of the Ocean King in order to open the next floor of the labyrinth. And save for their golden colour, they look just like the Force Gems from FSA.

[Fyxe]

Enough off-topic conversation, guys...

POT CALLING THE KETTLE GAY. >.>

What? XP

On topic... Mt. Crenel is not Death Mountain.

[Hero of Legend]

"Force Gems", known to be the power source of the Four Sword, appear in PH to be related to the "force" that represents the life force of the people. In PH, this "force" is extracted from people and crystallized, becoming what is known of in PH as the "Sands of Time". The Sands of Time, then, are tiny shards of "force." "Force gems" would be larger pieces of "force." The "Light Force" is, it seems, the source of unlimited "force" gifted to the royal family. The "Triforce" is the "force" of the gods. This is why, I would say, Force Gems, the Light Force, and the Triforce all appear as triangles. "Force" is itself triangular by nature.

LionHarted, that part right there--at least as it is related to Phantom Hourglass--is a huge leap of logic that the game text does not readily support.

However, and this is perhaps the coup de grâce of my point, Force Gems ARE mentioned in the game in an entirely different capacity. However, they're merely the triangular pieces that you have to place upon the pedestals in the Temple of the Ocean King in order to open the next floor of the labyrinth. And save for their golden colour, they look just like the Force Gems from FSA.

"Force Gems", known to be the power source of the Four Sword, appear in PH to be related to the "force" that represents the life force of the people. In PH, this "force" is extracted from people and crystallized, becoming what is known of in PH as the "Sands of Time". The Sands of Time, then, are tiny shards of "force." "Force gems" would be larger pieces of "force." The "Light Force" is, it seems, the source of unlimited "force" gifted to the royal family. The "Triforce" is the "force" of the gods. This is why, I would say, Force Gems, the Light Force, and the Triforce all appear as triangles. "Force" is itself triangular by nature.

LionHarted, that part right there--at least as it is related to Phantom Hourglass--is a huge leap of logic that the game text does not readily support.

However, and this is perhaps the coup de grâce of my point, Force Gems ARE mentioned in the game in an entirely different capacity. However, they're merely the triangular pieces that you have to place upon the pedestals in the Temple of the Ocean King in order to open the next floor of the labyrinth. And save for their golden colour, they look just like the Force Gems from FSA.

Are there any actual statements which would lead us to conclude that the Force Gems are indeed separate from the force (this is ignoring the fact that Bellum probably would have absorbed them if they were ? not that the game is logicaly sound otherwise) or is this just the standard TML skepticism? Otherwise LionHarted?s reasoning appears sound here - baring any untold info - so I would say it is valid as a hypothesis as of now.

In either case, the Gems appear to have some connection to the Triforce, but who knows if there is actually any meaning to it, or if they exist to with the purpose of fulfilling this game?s glowing Triforce crest quota (likely).

Edited by Hero of Legend, 30 September 2007 - 06:05 PM.

[LionHarted]

LionHarted, that part right there--at least as it is related to Phantom Hourglass--is a huge leap of logic that the game text does not readily support.

However, and this is perhaps the coup de grâce of my point, Force Gems ARE mentioned in the game in an entirely different capacity. However, they're merely the triangular pieces that you have to place upon the pedestals in the Temple of the Ocean King in order to open the next floor of the labyrinth. And save for their golden colour, they look just like the Force Gems from FSA.

Nevertheless, the Triforce IS called the "life force of the gods", as I recall it, at some point somewhere, and certainly called the "essence of the gods". And the term translated as "force" is used in all three - FSA, TMC, and PH. That all are described as "forces" is not in the slightest peculiar to you?

I'm aware of the part in spoiler tags [within the quoted].

Edited by LionHarted, 30 September 2007 - 08:59 PM.