220 replies to this topic

[CID Farwin]

That's what I wanted everyone to see, yes. A shame that most have already jumped to arms against it.

Nothing like people putting words into your mouth. Nothing like it.

I have wondered about this for a long time: If geography is irrelevant but game text is relevant, then what about geography described by game text? If a chara says, "This place is located next to that place", and another game visually makes it seem that it isn't so, don't we have a nice contradiction of canon there?
I really like to know, I don't think that has been clarified before.

Nice. I think I'd like to know too.

It hasn't been clarified because it's a pretty damn stupid thing to bother clarifying, quite frankly. o.o

See that Fyxe? it's the point. I'm pretty sure you missed it.

Then 'most of us' are stupid as hell.

It's FUN to do. That's why we do it. You can't say that you've never left your intellect behind just for a bit of fun.

I say beta stages are non-canon in any situation, in the game code or not. Also, that beta stage really doen't look like the final version of the ToT.

They are LESS canon. Like I said; they show creator intent.

Edited by CID Farwin, 30 July 2007 - 09:06 PM.

[SOAP]

Then 'most of us' are stupid as hell.

It's FUN to do. That's why we do it. You can't say that you've never left your intellect behind just for a bit of fun.

C'mon, this is Fyxe we're talking about. B)

Edited by SOAP, 30 July 2007 - 09:30 PM.

[CID Farwin]

Oh. Right. sorry.

[Person]

The Temple of Time is meant to be the Temple of Time from OoT. It has a near-identical layout, the same background music, and serves as the resting place for the Master Sword.

It's not at all like the Shadow Temple and Temple of Darkness being the same, because those are just two generic badguy temples with "Dark" in the name.

As for the geography contradiction: Yes, it is a contradiction, albeit a minuscule one that nobody cares about.

[CID Farwin]

The Temple of Time is meant to be the Temple of Time from OoT. It has a near-identical layout, the same background music, and serves as the resting place for the Master Sword.

And the person contradicting this is...?

[Person]

I've heard it tossed around. Dang! Gotta keep up with these threads!

[CID Farwin]

Yes. There's what, FOUR threads that are basically about the same thing and revolving around a few people? It was only a matter of time. I'm just glad it wasn't me.

Edited by CID Farwin, 30 July 2007 - 11:34 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

The Temple of Time is meant to be the Temple of Time from OoT. It has a near-identical layout, the same background music, and serves as the resting place for the Master Sword.

BULLSHIT! There's entirely new rooms and FLOORS, for chrissake.

[Arturo]

Emm no. Last I checked, both Temples consisted of two different rooms: a big one, and a smaller one, with teh Master Sword. The rest of teh things are just tiny nitpicky details.

[Fyxe]

See that Fyxe? it's the point. I'm pretty sure you missed it.

The hell? Don't pull that shit on me, especially when you have no idea what you're babbling about.

It's FUN to do. That's why we do it. You can't say that you've never left your intellect behind just for a bit of fun.

No, but last I checked this wasn't 'Zelda Fanfic' forum. Heck, this topic doesn't even imply that we should just make shit up and claim it as fact for the hell of it. Maybe I just have higher examples of fun. o.o

They are LESS canon. Like I said; they show creator intent.

You have to intepret them correctly first. There's probably a bunch of things in the 'beta' stage that are removed because they contradict canon. So the very act of removal is canon. Original intent is not good enough.

C'mon, this is Fyxe we're talking about. B)

Alright, lay off now. It's pathetic. Just because I don't consider fanficcery to be particularly 'fun' ('fun' is playing video games, watching films, having amusing conversations, drawing, and secks for me, I'm afraid making stuff up about a video game doesn't really touch on that kind of level. o.o) doesn't mean I'm anti-fun.

I'm nawt anti-fun, I'm anti-stupid.

[CID Farwin]

I'm nawt anti-fun, I'm anti-stupid.

Can't blame you with that; There's just a simple sort of fun in comparing the maps, seeing what matches up. We don't mean anything by it that really impacts the timeline. People just get all offended when we do this because their main arguments are lack of similarities. I used to do this sort of thing all the time with my friend.

You have to intepret them correctly first. There's probably a bunch of things in the 'beta' stage that are removed because they contradict canon. So the very act of removal is canon. Original intent is not good enough.

What I mean is like stuff that I've already said. It COULD be that in OoT they originally wanted the ToT the way it is in TP. If this is the case, then the ToT being that way in TP might not mean anything; it's just the way they wanted it.

No, but last I checked this wasn't 'Zelda Fanfic' forum. Heck, this topic doesn't even imply that we should just make shit up and claim it as fact for the hell of it. Maybe I just have higher examples of fun. o.o

That's just it; we're having fun. We're not claiming anything as fact, we're just opening possibilities.

[Fyxe]

We're not claiming anything as fact, we're just opening possibilities.

I have no problem with that, but sometimes you need some standards. Possibilities are pointless if they're clearly not intentional connections or even a homage. There are many things in Zelda games that DO homage back to previous games in the series; there's no need to make stuff up. Stuff like 'the small patch of trees south of Eastern Palace = OMG KOKIRI FOREST' is the sort of nonsense I'm talking about. What's the point of making up possibilities if there's not even an ounce of reality behind them? I mean, shit, anyone could do that.

I could say that Igos Du Ikana is Ganondorf's alternate in Termina, because he carries a big sword and has red hair and has a cape. Was that fun? Not really. Took me five seconds to spot a vague similarity and then throw a conspiratorial meaning onto it.

[CID Farwin]

Oh, alright. I don't really agree with what Jumbie said, though. I just think that Kokiri Forest/Deku Tree area is off the map in ALttP.

[MikePetersSucks]

Emm no. Last I checked, both Temples consisted of two different rooms: a big one, and a smaller one, with teh Master Sword. The rest of teh things are just tiny nitpicky details.

That's complete and utter bollocks. The TP Temple of Time has an entire dungeon, complete with multiple floors. There's a hell of a lot more than two goddamn floors.

[LionHarted]

That's complete and utter bollocks. The TP Temple of Time has an entire dungeon, complete with multiple floors. There's a hell of a lot more than two goddamn floors.

To be fair, the OoT Temple of Time had an entire series of turrets you never explored, and you never saw anything beyond the two main rooms, but that doesn't mean nothing was there.

[Arturo]

Emm no. Last I checked, both Temples consisted of two different rooms: a big one, and a smaller one, with teh Master Sword. The rest of teh things are just tiny nitpicky details.

That's complete and utter bollocks. The TP Temple of Time has an entire dungeon, complete with multiple floors. There's a hell of a lot more than two goddamn floors.

Ahhh I thought you didn't mean the dungeon. For all we know, the dungeon could be there in OoT as well. I personally think it is the Light Temple

Edited by Arturo, 31 July 2007 - 01:29 PM.

[CID Farwin]

TP Temple of Time(dungeon) is more of a Temple of Light, with all those medallion crests everywhere.

[EDIT]

For all we know, the dungeon could be there in OoT as well. I personally think it is the Light Temple.

Didn't they cut out the Temple of light from OoT? And also, I was also thinking that that could be also the Sacred Realm.

Edited by CID Farwin, 31 July 2007 - 01:36 PM.

[Fyxe]

Are you that desperate to explore the Sacred Realm that anywhere that's slightly weird must be the Sacred Realm?

If any area in a Zelda game was in the actual Sacred Realm, I think that maybe, just maybe the designers would be eager to point it out. They did it with the Chamber of Sages, and you don't even get to explore that location.

The Temple of Time already has a Light Medallion crest, because it's directly linked to the Temple of Light. But it's not the same place.

MPS, it's a bit silly to say that the ToT is not the same place in TP just because there's a section you could not explore in OoT.

[CID Farwin]

Are you that desperate to explore the Sacred Realm that anywhere that's slightly weird must be the Sacred Realm?

Now that you mention it, that may have something to do with it, yes.
It's just more likely that that it is. Since there's a dungeon with the Light Medallion crest, and there's a scrapped idea of a Temple of Light dungeon in OoT.

If any area in a Zelda game was in the actual Sacred Realm, I think that maybe, just maybe the designers would be eager to point it out.

Well, TP was never that good at pointing things out.

Edited by CID Farwin, 31 July 2007 - 01:52 PM.

[Fyxe]

There's no indication that the Temple of Light was ever explorable in OoT. It may have been, it may have never got off the drawing board, it may have not have ever been. I haven't heard either way.

The Temple of Time in TP is not the Temple of Light. Because it's the Temple of Time. That's it's name.

And generally TP was good at pointing things out, it just sometimes... Oh noes, used symbolism. You know, like a grown up game instead of something that spells everything out for all the morons in the audience. It's very similar to Majora's Mask in that respect.

It seems nobody can ever strike a balance. People either take things dead literally word for word and don't fill in the blanks by using context, or they enjoy pulling things out of their ass.

Edited by Fyxe, 31 July 2007 - 01:58 PM.

[LionHarted]

The Temple of Time in TP is not the Temple of Light. Because it's the Temple of Time. That's it's name.

This is probably the best argument against the theory.

[CID Farwin]

Alright. Fine. It's not. But it still could be the Temple of Light dungeon that they scrapped for OoT. Like how they could have origionally wanted the ToT in OoT the way that it is in TP.

[Fyxe]

I wouldn't be surprised. I get the feeling that a LOT of things in TP were things they wanted to put in OoT but never got the chance.

[Jumbie]

It hasn't been clarified because it's a pretty damn stupid thing to bother clarifying, quite frankly. o.o

Yeah sure. No, the truth is you fear thinking about it. Btw, with "clarify" I referred to us fans, not the devs.

Then 'most of us' are stupid as hell.

Or one of us!

I've seen a better quality in an old magazine somewhere, maybe I should scan it someday.

Go ahead.

How on earth is it a hint to that at all? It seems you're trying to link entirely unconnected tidbits of vague beta information to create some kind of interwoven tapestry, but you're only seeing those connections because you want to.

That's right.

Whether you like it or not, there ARE a bazillion different temples in Hyrule. Hell, TLoZ, which takes place in a fairly small Death Mountain region, has about six ruins and three more dungeons aside.

I'm not annoyed about many temples in Hyrule - but rather about people saying that every single temple in a Zelda game cannot possibly reappear with a different name and layout in another game.

Even dungeons that have the same name can't necessarily be the same place. The Shadow Temple, despite having the same name as the Palace of Darkness, obviously can't be the same place.

I know that much. Names mean nothing. That's why, for example, I deny the "Lake Hylia" in FSA being a lake (because it's obviously a river plus fountain instead of a lake, as everyone looking at its stage map should be able to tell).

As for the geography contradiction: Yes, it is a contradiction, albeit a minuscule one that nobody cares about.

It's enough to prove that we cannot have a timeline without canon contradicting itself - due to that tiny quote of the man on OoT's market place. That was my point, to land another strike against the literalists.

No, but last I checked this wasn't 'Zelda Fanfic' forum. Heck, this topic doesn't even imply that we should just make shit up and claim it as fact for the hell of it.

Some posts ago I referred to exactly this. We ARE allowed to turn the thread into a fanfic thread. Show me a rule that forbids it. We have no Zelda Fanfic forum, so where else to do it but in Storyline.

Maybe I just have higher examples of fun. o.o

You undoubtedly do. I, however, must claim about myself that I can get fun out of the silliest things. And I luv it.

Just because I don't consider fanficcery to be particularly 'fun' ('fun' is playing video games, watching films, having amusing conversations, drawing, and secks for me, I'm afraid making stuff up about a video game doesn't really touch on that kind of level. o.o) doesn't mean I'm anti-fun.

Guess what, I prefer doing geography comparisons over ALL that you named, any day. ...Well, let's leave sex out of it.

I'm nawt anti-fun, I'm anti-stupid.

No, you are a different type of person, and you seem to think that everyone has to be and think like you. Shame on you, now *that* is pitiful.

Stuff like 'the small patch of trees south of Eastern Palace = OMG KOKIRI FOREST' is the sort of nonsense I'm talking about. What's the point of making up possibilities if there's not even an ounce of reality behind them? I mean, shit, anyone could do that.

And anyone *should* do that. You know, it'd just give some *character* to our timelines if we all did.

I could say that Igos Du Ikana is Ganondorf's alternate in Termina, because he carries a big sword and has red hair and has a cape. Was that fun? Not really. Took me five seconds to spot a vague similarity and then throw a conspiratorial meaning onto it.

Well, you instantly got me considering this theory for a millisecond - so yes, it was fun, and I thank you for it. Honestly.

For all we know, the dungeon could be there in OoT as well. I personally think it is the Light Temple.

Didn't they cut out the Temple of light from OoT? And also, I was also thinking that that could be also the Sacred Realm.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Are you that desperate to explore the Sacred Realm that anywhere that's slightly weird must be the Sacred Realm?

Yep, we are.

It seems nobody can ever strike a balance. People either take things dead literally word for word and don't fill in the blanks by using context, or they enjoy pulling things out of their ass.

Because going the middle way is always hardest.

The Temple of Time in TP is not the Temple of Light. Because it's the Temple of Time. That's it's name.

This is probably the best argument against the theory.

Or the weakest. As said, I don't give anything on names.

I wouldn't be surprised. I get the feeling that a LOT of things in TP were things they wanted to put in OoT but never got the chance.

It's a fact.

[CID Farwin]

I know that much. Names mean nothing. That's why, for example, I deny the "Lake Hylia" in FSA being a lake (because it's obviously a river plus fountain instead of a lake, as everyone looking at its stage map should be able to tell).

Or, for another example, The Forest Temple in TP.

[Hero of Legend]

Oh for fuck's sake, there is a fan fiction page on Zelda Legends. Go there. Then post about it in Zelda General or something.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 31 July 2007 - 05:32 PM.

[Arturo]

Okay, I have had enough.

If anyone wants to complain about the fanfiction on geography, go to the Life and Romance Forum. But stop complaining here, you are becoming annoying.

The fanfiction theory WILL stay. Any complaints will be dealt as spam. If you think it's a stupid waste of time, do not waste your time in posting. Do like me. Do not post.

Edited by Arturo, 31 July 2007 - 06:15 PM.

[Fyxe]

Artuno, you used to be cool. Bleh, fine. I won't post in here anymore. Kill off the sensible posters. o.o Let everyone just throw mutual self-love around.

Also, Jumbie, fuck off with the personal insults. Seriously, I can't be bothered with it this time. Shut the hell up.

[Showsni]

That said, if you're posting something you know is fanfiction becasue "It's FUN to do" rather than trying to explain a few gaps or whatever, start another thread for it. Pure fanfiction (i.e. stories) can go in Zelda General. Storyline related, but ultimately made up, explanations can go in Storyline. But if you are pulling theories out of nowhere for fun, start your own thread, don't derail another one. I know we get off topic a lot; but this thread is suppose to be about Person's timeline, not how many waterfalls stop a lake being a lake or whether the Temple of Time was planned to be put somewhere else in beta versions.

[CID Farwin]

The fanfiction theory WILL stay. Any complaints will be dealt as spam. If you think it's a stupid waste of time, do not waste your time in posting. Do like me. Do not post.

*cues 'getting a heart piece' music*

That said, if you're posting something you know is fanfiction becasue "It's FUN to do" rather than trying to explain a few gaps or whatever, start another thread for it.

We do it to argue for our timelines. AND because it's fun to find all this arbitrary proof to a theory from nowhere, while there's no proof against it. And WHEN has a thread stayed on topic for seven pages?

Artuno, you used to be cool. Bleh, fine. I won't post in here anymore. Kill off the sensible posters. o.o Let everyone just throw mutual self-love around.

This is the stuff that GOT me to be active on the internet, and I've had little chance to have fun with it. And mutual self-love is WAY better than mutual flaming.