156 replies to this topic

[Arturo]

The Triforce was originally in the Sacred Realm, but when Link opened the Door of Time, Ganon entered in the Sacred Realm and obtained the Triforce from there. The Triforce divided into its three parts, remaining the Triforce of power in him. Using his power and that of the Sacred Realm, he invaded Hyrule from the Temples of Hyrule, becoming the King of Evil.

Hope that helps.

[Paviel]

Impa clearly implies in the Chamber of Sages taht they never came back to the Castle. Why should they then in the Child Timeline? With the same circumstances they should do the same. But they don't do the same because the circumstances atre not the same. Ganon has been sealed.

That seems to be the case. Adult Zelda knew that what happened to Adult Link also happened to Young Link. (namely, learning the Song of Storms and the Requiem of Spirit, as well as gaining all of those Heart Containers.) Chances are, she thought that what happened to Adult Ganondorf would happen to "Young" Ganondorf, and maybe even that what happened to her adult self would affect her young self.

Judging by the intro and the memory of her in Majora's Mask, she was right; Ganondorf was sealed in the Child timeline as well, and Young Zelda had the ocarina again.

Edited by Paviel, 04 November 2006 - 04:49 PM.

[Ogmios22188]

I still don't believe that because Ganon was sealed in the future it makes him sealed in the past. It makes no sense to me. People have been arguing it since day one, but it still doesn't make sense. Events of the future don't effect the past. I'll be dead one day, but I'm still alive today.

[Mad Scrub]

Actually, I'm saying that TWW is the extension from OoT/MM/TP, but you're not reading all of the backstory. As quoted from The Wind Waker manual:
If you'll notice, it says the boy's tale was passed down. That's a very significant piece of information, since it tells us that Link told his side of the story to everyone after he was sent back. He was a boy, not an adult. The only way this could have happened is if he WAS sent back to the Child Timeline after defeating Ganon. The people just chose to believe this tale that he told, and it became legend from there. Maybe he used his possession of the ToC as evidence of said tale, who knows. All that is clear is that Link told his side of the story, and that, in effect, is the backstory of TWW.

As if to further emphasize my point, the next paragraph in the manual adds more proof to this:
Why else would this Hero of Time not appear? Simply because he wasn't old enough yet. The OoT Link must have died just before this Link was born, since this Link is about 9 when this "tale" begins.

I hope this sheds some light on the situation, as it does get confusing sometimes. If you have anymore issues with this, don't hesitate to post em.

Darunia - Sage of Legend

When in OoT did Child Link wield the MS though? I doubt Adult Link was over 21-years-old too so I suppose you could get away with calling him a boy. He was a boy when he began his journey and Link's grandmother is obviously aware of this. If TWW happens after the Child half of OoT then Adult Princess Zelda must return Link to the past to a point in time before he took the MS out of the PoT so he can get the OoT from Child Princess Zelda and begin his adventure in Termina. For starters that would create two Link's, one who's starting his first adventure (OoT) and the other who's starting his second (MM). Child Princess Zelda has been told Ganondorf's no longer a threat (provided that the seal transcends time) so the Link who's starting his first adventure now has no purpose. If Adult Princess Zelda sent Link to the past to a point in time after Ganondorf had entered the SR then you'll have to explain how Child Princess Zelda has the OoT. The HoT would not appear because he would be long dead. TP happens after OoT and before TWW so a lot of time would have passed.

Edited by Mad Scrub, 04 November 2006 - 10:04 PM.

[Darunia]

When in OoT did Child Link wield the MS though?

Just until he was frozen for 7 years in stasis. He had to be able to wield the MS, otherwise he couldn't have picked it up.

I doubt Adult Link was over 21-years-old too so I suppose you could get away with calling him a boy.

I believe he was 16 in the OoT Adult period, but don't hold me to that.

He was a boy when he began his journey and Link's grandmother is obviously aware of this. If TWW happens after the Child half of OoT then Adult Princess Zelda must return Link to the past to a point in time before he took the MS out of the PoT so he can get the OoT from Child Princess Zelda and begin his adventure in Termina.

Good job. I think you're beginning to see the storyline from my point of view.

For starters that would create two Link's, one who's starting his first adventure (OoT) and the other who's starting his second (MM).

Ok, now you've gone off and lost me again. How is that possible, when his adventure hasn't even started yet? It really starts when Zelda observes Ganondorf in the Castle bowing before the King of Hyrule. She sees a vision about him, and tells Link that that man is evil. He has evil intentions towards Hyrule, and towards her.

This does not require there to be two Links, since the one Link that does exist hasn't learned anything yet, aside from how to sneak past some lazy guards. *snickers* Also, there isn't any evidence to suggest just how much time has passed between OoT and MM. Anyway, TWW Link is a new Link. As far as I'm concerned, it's OoT/MM/TP/TWW. No reason that this can't be the case, is there? Is there any evidence to show otherwise? If so, I haven't seen it yet.

Child Princess Zelda has been told Ganondorf's no longer a threat (provided that the seal transcends time) so the Link who's starting his first adventure now has no purpose.

How could she have been told? By whom?

If Adult Princess Zelda sent Link to the past to a point in time after Ganondorf had entered the SR then you'll have to explain how Child Princess Zelda has the OoT. The HoT would not appear because he would be long dead. TP happens after OoT and before TWW so a lot of time would have passed.

On these things, you and I agree mostly. However, I think I may have adequately explained why Link couldn't have been sent back to a point after Ganondorf entered the SR.

I must admit, through the process of writing up this reply, I've began to doubt a couple things in my theory. Something doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Ganondorf would still exist in the child era if Zelda sent Link back to his child time. The only way to explain this sudden change, without eliminating any characters would be to have Ganon's evil spirit be the only thing that was sealed, and not his actual form. This is pure speculation though, so it has no real basis in fact. It's just a thought. Aside from that, I think my theory is pretty close to flawless. At the same time, however, in the final cutscene, we don't see Zelda look through the window at Ganondorf again. Is this because he's not there, or because we were supposed to expect that to happen next?

Indeed... something I'll ponder on.

Darunia - Sage of Legend

[Paviel]

I still don't believe that because Ganon was sealed in the future it makes him sealed in the past. It makes no sense to me. People have been arguing it since day one, but it still doesn't make sense. Events of the future don't effect the past. I'll be dead one day, but I'm still alive today.

But events of the future DO affect the past. Otherwise, Young Link never could have played the Song of Storms or the Requiem of Spirit, since he learned those tunes as an adult.

In any case, the intro to Majora's Mask wouldn't make sense if Ganon were still at large in the past, and I think it would make the most sense if Ganon's imprisonment in the timeless Sacred Realm had an effect on both the future and the past. The alternative is that Link and Zelda trapped Ganon twice, once as adults and again as children. Yet without the Master Sword, could Young Link have done such a thing? And with the Master Sword, could Link have stayed young?

On third thought, if Zelda had taken Link back to after Ganondorf had entered the Sacred Realm but before he left, Link could have trapped him there again just by closing the Door of Time...

Edited by Paviel, 05 November 2006 - 12:29 PM.

[Fyxe]

But events of the future DO affect the past. Otherwise, Young Link never could have played the Song of Storms or the Requiem of Spirit, since he learned those tunes as an adult.

No, those events affect Link, not the past. The Song of Storms has already been played by the time Link is an adult.

[Ogmios22188]

But events of the future DO affect the past. Otherwise, Young Link never could have played the Song of Storms or the Requiem of Spirit, since he learned those tunes as an adult.

Yeah, but though he learned those songs in the future, he still played them in the past. So, the future doesn't effect the songs in that respect. It's a time loop. While Link was frozen in the Sacred Realm, the Link from the future went back through time to learn the Song of Storms and such. That's why the well is drained in the future.

[Mad Scrub]

Just until he was frozen for 7 years in stasis. He had to be able to wield the MS, otherwise he couldn't have picked it up.

But still he was unable to use it in combat until he was an adult or to be exact a adolescent.

This does not require there to be two Links, since the one Link that does exist hasn't learned anything yet, aside from how to sneak past some lazy guards. *snickers* Also, there isn't any evidence to suggest just how much time has passed between OoT and MM. Anyway, TWW Link is a new Link. As far as I'm concerned, it's OoT/MM/TP/TWW. No reason that this can't be the case, is there? Is there any evidence to show otherwise? If so, I haven't seen it yet.

If Adult Princess Zelda returns Link to the past using the OoT in the same way he normally travels to the past when he puts the MS in the PoT then there would be one Link in Child Hyrule. For example, Link goes to the future at 9:00am and does whatever for an hour. When he returns to the past it will be 10:00am. If Adult Princess Zelda returns Link to the past using the OoT but not in the same way he normally travels to the past through the MS and if the OoT can return Link further into the past then this would create two Link's in Child Hyrule. My theory (which I posted before) has two Link's and two ToC's being in Child Hyrule at the same time for a time until everything is eventually resolved.

How could she have been told? By whom?

Link would've told her on his return from the future.

Edited by Mad Scrub, 05 November 2006 - 05:48 PM.

[Paviel]

If Adult Princess Zelda returns Link to the past using the OoT but not in the same way he normally travels to the past through the MS and if the OoT can return Link further into the past then this would create two Link's in Child Hyrule.

How much further into the past? Surely not before he opened the Door of Time, and by then the other Link would have been either right outside of the Door, or inside the room with the Master Sword.

Sorry, but I can't see there being two Young Links at the same time.

[Mad Scrub]

How much further into the past? Surely not before he opened the Door of Time, and by then the other Link would have been either right outside of the Door, or inside the room with the Master Sword.

Sorry, but I can't see there being two Young Links at the same time.

Anytime before Ganondorf attacks Hyrule Castle, Impa and Child Zelda escape and Child Zelda throws the OoT into the moat. Not many people like the idea of two Link's and two ToC's being in Hyrule at the same time but as I said before eventually (in my theory) there is only one Link and one ToC.

[Paviel]

Anytime before Ganondorf attacks Hyrule Castle, Impa and Child Zelda escape and Child Zelda throws the OoT into the moat. Not many people like the idea of two Link's and two ToC's being in Hyrule at the same time but as I said before eventually (in my theory) there is only one Link and one ToC.

So how could the Door of Time have been open, if Young Link hasn't yet obtained the Ocarina of Time?

Edited by Paviel, 05 November 2006 - 08:30 PM.

[Mad Scrub]

That's the problem. You can't explain this without using fanfiction. But then again if Adult Princess Zelda returned Link to the past in the same way the MS does then you'd have to use fanfiction to explain how Child Princess Zelda is still in possession of the OoT. Both explanations require an equal amount of fanfiction.

[Jumbie]

To Jumbie, I re-read this topic just recently and I want to ask a couple of questions.

1) If Link's soul travels to another timeline, then how can the Hero of Winds be the Hero of Time reborn again? I have no idea where you're getting this "disintegrating energy" or "Link's soul splitting to both timelines" speculation from. Travelling =/= Copying

It's highly complicated. When Link leaves the Adult timeline, his adult body vanishes and his soul goes back to the past. But how could it be that a soul just vanishes from a timeline? This isn't possible, therefore it must come back somehow in time for TP or TWW.

2) If Link and Zelda standing in the sky is plain symbolism, then why can't Link and Zelda's meeting in the past also be symbolic? We don't have to erase the whole event to take it as symbolism but it is obvious that the purpose of that meeting had an emotional message to put forward than it being something essentially important to the story. Link's quest was already over after all.

Simple. Their second meeting is totally different from the one we experienced ourselves. Link has the ToC and Zelda turns around when Link is only halfway up to her.

Do Zelda and Impa know that Ganon and the Gerudos have left? Don't think so, and probably by the time they'd have gotten back, Ganon would've already exited the Sacred Realm with the Triforce of Power in hand, wreaking havoc and conquering the Castle. I find her coming back to the Castle very unlikely.

Her coming back under this circumstances is indeed unlikely. Thus, the circumstances have to be different entirely, namely Ganon has to be sealed in the Sacred Realm so everything is safe to return to the Castle.

I still don't believe that because Ganon was sealed in the future it makes him sealed in the past. It makes no sense to me. People have been arguing it since day one, but it still doesn't make sense. Events of the future don't effect the past. I'll be dead one day, but I'm still alive today.

Well technically it makes no sense to me either, but I believe in it nonetheless, since the evidence of Hyrule being peaceful in the child ending dictates that the seal must have transcended the timelines.

[Ogmios22188]

Well technically it makes no sense to me either, but I believe in it nonetheless, since the evidence of Hyrule being peaceful in the child ending dictates that the seal must have transcended the timelines.

Well, unless when Link comes back in time, he leaves the Master Sword in the pedestal, takes the Spiritual Stones, and then Ganon becomes sealed in the Sacred Realm. But I suppose that still doesn't account for why Zelda would be in the Castle.

[Paviel]

But I suppose that still doesn't account for why Zelda would be in the Castle.

That's easy enough. Zelda could have had a vision of Ganon trapped in the Sacred Realm, so she would have known that with Ganon gone, it would be quite safe to return to Hyrule Castle.

Edited by Paviel, 06 November 2006 - 11:35 AM.

[Raien]

That's easy enough. Zelda could have had a vision of Ganon trapped in the Sacred Realm, so she would have known that with Ganon gone, it would be quite safe to return to Hyrule Castle.

This just proves Mad Scrubs earlier "fanfiction" point. The whole point of the scene where Zelda and Impa escape is to lead into Sheik's appearance in Adult OoT.

[Chaltab]

I think that Link returns to the past the same moment Ganondorf entered the Chamber of Time, and instead of the portal leading him to the Triforce, Link's return somehow altered history causing Child Timeline Ganondorf to be sealed or destroyed. Granted this is pure speculation, but it's my explanation for what happens to Child Timeline Ganon.

[Jumbie]

Well, unless when Link comes back in time, he leaves the Master Sword in the pedestal, takes the Spiritual Stones, and then Ganon becomes sealed in the Sacred Realm. But I suppose that still doesn't account for why Zelda would be in the Castle.

Zelda being in the Castle is not a big problem with this theory of yours. What I'm a little worried about though is that a Sages' Seal would be missing..
So, I assume most of us debating at this moment are of the belief that the Child ending did alter one of OoT's timelines (although some still seem to go with a Single Timeline, which with this belief is impossible due to TWW happening after the Adult ending). But don't you guys agree then that ALttP follows in the Child timeline? And for ALttP to occur, we need Ganon to have been sealed by the Sages.

I think that Link returns to the past the same moment Ganondorf entered the Chamber of Time, and instead of the portal leading him to the Triforce, Link's return somehow altered history causing Child Timeline Ganondorf to be sealed or destroyed. Granted this is pure speculation, but it's my explanation for what happens to Child Timeline Ganon.

As said, Ganon destroyed wouldn't make much sense for ALttP. The transcending seal is the outcome.

[Chaltab]

As said, Ganon destroyed wouldn't make much sense for ALttP. The transcending seal is the outcome.

Ganondorf of the PAST may have been destroyed. Ganondorf of the Future would still exist, still sealed away in the Evil Realm, outside of Time. This is the Ganondorf that appears in TWW, and the one that appears in ALTTP, by my theory, is the one sealed in the Four Sword in FSA.

[Ogmios22188]

Zelda being in the Castle is not a big problem with this theory of yours. What I'm a little worried about though is that a Sages' Seal would be missing..
So, I assume most of us debating at this moment are of the belief that the Child ending did alter one of OoT's timelines (although some still seem to go with a Single Timeline, which with this belief is impossible due to TWW happening after the Adult ending). But don't you guys agree then that ALttP follows in the Child timeline? And for ALttP to occur, we need Ganon to have been sealed by the Sages.

Yeah, I do believe that "A Link to the Past" takes place in the child timeline while "The Wind Waker" takes place in the adult timeline. I figure the multiple timelines are a way for them to have more story opportunities without angering the fans with retcons and such, since we're very interested in timelines and what have you. Maybe Link didn't remove the Spiritual Stones, maybe he just went to warn Zelda, and Ganon still received the Triforce, and the Sages would still have to be summoned. When it comes down to it, none of this can really, indisputably be explained without fan-fiction. Hopefully Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass will increase our understanding and reveal the truth a little bit more.

[Darunia]

That's the problem. You can't explain this without using fanfiction. But then again if Adult Princess Zelda returned Link to the past in the same way the MS does then you'd have to use fanfiction to explain how Child Princess Zelda is still in possession of the OoT. Both explanations require an equal amount of fanfiction.

And that, in and of itself, is the major problem with this line of thought. Not even your theory works without a little fanfiction. No one knows WHEN Zelda returned Link to exactly. All we know is she returned him to child form. Maybe some information from a canonical source in the future (TP maybe???) could shed some light on this.

So, as it stands right now, nothing's been proven or disproven, aside from the very obvious fact that we still don't know at what time Zelda returned Link to.

However, there are hints that lead me to believe that he was returned to a time before he met Zelda for the first time. I think that his old self was replaced by the new self before he met Zelda, and as he went to see her, she, not having met him yet, reacted as she did the first time Link met her. Just a hint of course.

Darunia - Sage of Legend

So, I assume most of us debating at this moment are of the belief that the Child ending did alter one of OoT's timelines (although some still seem to go with a Single Timeline, which with this belief is impossible due to TWW happening after the Adult ending). But don't you guys agree then that ALttP follows in the Child timeline? And for ALttP to occur, we need Ganon to have been sealed by the Sages.

What evidence do you use for the Adult Timeline being the backstory for TWW? For all we know, Link just came back and told that story, making everyone believe it, since he carried the ToC in himself, and that story became legend, and then that legend became myth over the course of time between OoT and TWW.

I just wanna know what evidence others are using to support this odd theory of a split in the timeline, when all of the canonical evidence shows otherwise.

Thanks in advance,

Darunia - Sage of Legend

[jman]

I just wanna know what evidence others are using to support this odd theory of a split in the timeline, when all of the canonical evidence shows otherwise.

Thanks in advance,

Darunia - Sage of Legend

Daunia. I never had a problem with the single timeline theory, infact when people said that the hero in TWW didn't appear (as it states in the prologue) because he was in another timeline I was arguing that he (Link) actually stayed in Termina or left Termina but never returned to the part of Hyrule seen in OOT, and thus didn't return.
However, there is one big catch to the single timeline for me. If TWW is ALTTP's predecessor, then how did Ganon break free of the seal before ALTTP? Saying TWW comes before OOT means there needs to be another imprisoning war or imprisoning ritual. I don't see how this is possible, because it is very clear that Ganon has not escaped prior to ALTTP.

I personally think that it would make more sense to have one timeline but I started questioning it and one of the things which I came up with included analyzing the Master sword pedestal in ALTTP which says The hero's triumph on cataclysm's eve wins 3 symbols of virtue, the master sword he will then retrieve keeping the knight's line true. Now I know you dislike the split, but humour me for a second. If we say there is a split then in the Child timeline of OOT, the original Link still exists there and goes to Termina etc. TWW's prologue says And then a day came when a fell wind began to blow across the kingdom, and the great evil once again crept forth from the depths of the earth. The people believed that the Hero of Time would again come to save them. But the hero did not appear. So if there is a split, the Adult timeline of OOT becomes TWW(where the hero did not return) and the child timeline becomes ALTTP where the hero does return and stops Ganon. Therefore the Ganon in ALTTP got out of the sacred realm for the first time and was stopped by Link, where as the first time Ganon got out prior to the WW timeline, Link was not there to stop him, and the gods flooded Hyrule but let few survive on mountain tops. Thus, Ganon succeeded in one dimension, the first time where he got out of the SR (TWW timeline) where he failed in another (ALTTP timeline). *Just to make things clear, if the split is the true timeline, I believe the reality has split aswell i.e. there is not one Ganon going into the ALTTP timeline and TWW timeline on different occasions.*

Notice that there are also parallels in the stories. In WW Ganon gets the whole triforce but then King Hyrule makes a wish, where as in ALTTP Ganon gets the whole triforce but Link kills him.

Now why did Pre-WW Ganon succeed the first time out of the SR where ALTTP Ganon failed? It's explained in the poem in ALTTP. Link in the ALTTP timeline was a descendant of the original Link who was raised by the Deku tree in OOT thus in ALTTP he was called on by fate and kept the knight's line true. Where as there was no knight's line to be kept in TWW(the first time Ganon breached the seal) so the Cataclym occurred (cataclysm = the great flood). Thus in ALTTP Link stoppped the cataclysm, and in the time before WW, the cataclysm happened because there was no Link and no knight's line, so the master sword couldn't be wielded and Ganon's evil couldn't be repelled.

I don't particularly like the idea of the split because I think it's kind of a strange direction to go. But the canon may very well be pointing gamers in that direction.

[Raien]

^There is a simple explanation for this. The Seal Wars are different, with one being OoT and the other being ALTTP's Manual. If you read the story in ALTTP's Manual, it makes clear that Hylian civilisation had died out by then, and in the game, it says that the location of the Sacred Realm was lost long before Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm. TWW explains all of this. Read my "TWW before ALTTP" topic here for more elaboration and quotes.

Edited by jhurvid, 07 November 2006 - 08:15 AM.

[Jumbie]

Ganondorf of the PAST may have been destroyed. Ganondorf of the Future would still exist, still sealed away in the Evil Realm, outside of Time. This is the Ganondorf that appears in TWW, and the one that appears in ALTTP, by my theory, is the one sealed in the Four Sword in FSA.

Oh right, you are a Single Timeliner. Then you may just forget everything I said. ..However, it is fairly uncommon for Singlers to say that the past was altered...

I figure the multiple timelines are a way for them to have more story opportunities without angering the fans with retcons and such, since we're very interested in timelines and what have you.

That's exactly the point.

Maybe Link didn't remove the Spiritual Stones, maybe he just went to warn Zelda, and Ganon still received the Triforce, and the Sages would still have to be summoned. When it comes down to it, none of this can really, indisputably be explained without fan-fiction.

Yes, why not, this would be a second Sealing War happening in the Child Timeline. Some Splitters prefer this to a transcending seal. To me it doesn't really matter, as long as ALttP can be safely placed in the Child Timeline, avoiding any retcons and TWW clashes.

Hopefully Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass will increase our understanding and reveal the truth a little bit more.

It's been stated that TP will explain a lot, but to me PH has the much more important question to answer. I expect it to clarify once and for all whether a New Hyrule is found(ed) or not, so PH will either be the death of all Single Timelines, or the fateful game that connects TWW to FSA and ALttP ( )..

What evidence do you use for the Adult Timeline being the backstory for TWW? For all we know, Link just came back and told that story, making everyone believe it, since he carried the ToC in himself, and that story became legend, and then that legend became myth over the course of time between OoT and TWW.

Okay then. Aonuma and Miyamoto stated that TWW takes place after Link as an adult defeated Ganon in OoT. This statement is proven to be the irrefutable truth by a lot of things in TWW - Ganon refers to the scene in OoT before the duel of him and Link where he tried to reunite the Triforce once before. It comes from his own experience, like all the memories he has of the Hero of Time who defeated him. I could go on about the Hero monument and the Sages' windows in TWW's Castle, but well, if you're blind to it, so be it.

I just wanna know what evidence others are using to support this odd theory of a split in the timeline, when all of the canonical evidence shows otherwise.

The split is never directly implied in any games, but we have 2 major arguments that make any Single Timeline impossible:
- MM cannot take place between OoT's child and adult half (every sensible Single Timeline requires this).
- ALttP and TWW cannot take place in the same timeline, since both refer to the very same event of Ganon being sealed away, which would simply be ridiculous to have occurred twice in history.

Now why did Pre-WW Ganon succeed the first time out of the SR where ALTTP Ganon failed? It's explained in the poem in ALTTP. Link in the ALTTP timeline was a descendant of the original Link who was raised by the Deku tree in OOT thus in ALTTP he was called on by fate and kept the knight's line true. Where as there was no knight's line to be kept in TWW(the first time Ganon breached the seal) so the Cataclym occurred (cataclysm = the great flood). Thus in ALTTP Link stoppped the cataclysm, and in the time before WW, the cataclysm happened because there was no Link and no knight's line, so the master sword couldn't be wielded and Ganon's evil couldn't be repelled.

That's another good explanation for it. But by now I'd say, since TP happens in between OoT and TWW and features another Link, let's just wait and see why exactly it is that Ganon can break free uncountered.

I don't particularly like the idea of the split because I think it's kind of a strange direction to go. But the canon may very well be pointing gamers in that direction.

I think no Splitter actually likes the idea of a split. But I go with a split not because I find it fancy, but because to me it's the one and only solution to order the games reasonably.

There is a simple explanation for this. The Seal Wars are different, with one being OoT and the other being ALTTP's Manual. If you read the story in ALTTP's Manual, it makes clear that Hylian civilisation had died out by then, and in the game, it says that the location of the Sacred Realm was lost long before Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm. TWW explains all of this. Read my "TWW before ALTTP" topic here for more elaboration and quotes.

You're leaning on these minor things all the time, while claiming that ALttP was retconned to refer to FSA's happenings instead of OoT's.. Really, no matter how many consistencies between TWW and the manual of ALttP you may find, I just won't admit to the OoT+ALttP connection being retconned.. not before TP and PH are out, and hopefully they won't give me reason to do so, either!

[Raien]

Common Misconception, Jumbie. Most theorists I know don't believe that FSA leads directly into ALTTP, even though they place FSA before ALTTP. LionHarted believes it because he thinks OoT is the SW even in a single timeline. I don't.

Edited by jhurvid, 07 November 2006 - 01:12 PM.

[LionHarted]

You're leaning on these minor things all the time, while claiming that ALttP was retconned to refer to FSA's happenings instead of OoT's..

Actually, no one from ZU, not even myself, stands by that claim anymore.

Of course, I'm still curious as to how the OoT-ALttP connection and the OoT=SW status are irrecoverably destroyed by the creation of TWW. For all intents and purposes, there's no currently-existing canonical reason why OoT cannot be the Seal War in a single timeline.

Edited by LionHarted, 07 November 2006 - 04:54 PM.

[Chaltab]

It's been stated that TP will explain a lot, but to me PH has the much more important question to answer. I expect it to clarify once and for all whether a New Hyrule is found(ed) or not, so PH will either be the death of all Single Timelines, or the fateful game that connects TWW to FSA and ALttP ( deadlink.gif )..

What? How would the lack of a New Hyrule in Phantom Hourglass kill all single-timeline theories? We already have in The Wind Waker itself a proposed method of rebuilding Hyrule--the seeds the Korok's are planting. Phantom Hourglass could not touch on a New Hyrule at all and still not disprove the Single Timeline theory.

[CID Farwin]

Wow, my seal theory has been almost completely ignored:

if link IS transported to a time after he pulled out the master sword, then technically Ganon would already be sealed. By the origional seal, no less. As far as I know, the gateway can only be opened by someone pulling out the Master Sword.

Ganon "Rediscoveres" the gateway to the Sacred Realm. Or maybe he finds another way out?

1) Ganon rediscovers the gateway "to the Sacred Realm", i.e., "to" the Realm, from Hyrule;
2) This means that he's rediscovering the way in, not the way out, which means he can't be sealed there

I don't see how this contradicts my point, it's still pretty well open to interperatation.

The whole thing with the seven maidens being "Human" or at least Humanoid(Like or near human.)

How does a split timeline explain this at all? *scratches head*

A split timeline doesn't explain it, but by seal theory does. i.e. the maidens are descendants of the origional sages.

[Mad Scrub]

Wow, my seal theory has been almost completely ignored:

We don't know for a fact that that is enough to hold Ganon and as I said before you'd still have to use fanfiction to explain how Child Princess Zelda still has the OoT in her possession.