156 replies to this topic

[CID Farwin]

We don't know for a fact that that is enough to hold Ganon and as I said before you'd still have to use fanfiction to explain how Child Princess Zelda still has the OoT in her possession.

You'd have to use fanfiction to explain a LOT of OoT's ending. I just thought that my theory required the least amount of fanfiction.

[Paviel]

The day Nintendo reveals everything there is to know about the Zelda series is the day they stop making any more Zelda games.

Assumptions (or fanfiction, if you will) HAVE to be made to explain anything about the series, but by Ockham's razor, the fewer, the better.

[Darunia]

Okay then. Aonuma and Miyamoto stated that TWW takes place after Link as an adult defeated Ganon in OoT. This statement is proven to be the irrefutable truth by a lot of things in TWW - Ganon refers to the scene in OoT before the duel of him and Link where he tried to reunite the Triforce once before. It comes from his own experience, like all the memories he has of the Hero of Time who defeated him. I could go on about the Hero monument and the Sages' windows in TWW's Castle, but well, if you're blind to it, so be it.

But how many times have Aonuma and Miyamoto changed their stories since they began making the Series? For all we know, Link came back and did just like I said, he made up this tale, and used his possession of the ToC as evidence to back up what he was saying. Nothing about this theory seems illogical. If my theory be true, then of course the things in TWW would still make sense, because they'd all be based on what Link told them when he returned. It just seems to me like you're basing everything off of the assumption that the "adult timeline" still existed when Link was sent back. If that were true, then why don't the stories that became legend speak of this? They speak of his traveling through time, but not his leaving the future to go back to the past.

The split is never directly implied in any games, but we have 2 major arguments that make any Single Timeline impossible:
- MM cannot take place between OoT's child and adult half (every sensible Single Timeline requires this).

Which is why I believe that the "adult timeline" was scrubbed from history when Link retuened, save for the tale that he told when he got back.

- ALttP and TWW cannot take place in the same timeline, since both refer to the very same event of Ganon being sealed away, which would simply be ridiculous to have occurred twice in history.

Which is why we need TP to answer those burning questions for us. Only time will tell I'm afraid.

I think no Splitter actually likes the idea of a split. But I go with a split not because I find it fancy, but because to me it's the one and only solution to order the games reasonably.
You're leaning on these minor things all the time, while claiming that ALttP was retconned to refer to FSA's happenings instead of OoT's.. Really, no matter how many consistencies between TWW and the manual of ALttP you may find, I just won't admit to the OoT+ALttP connection being retconned.. not before TP and PH are out, and hopefully they won't give me reason to do so, either!

I'm willing to change my theory if the evidence points me in a different direction. However, it'll have to be damn convincing evidence to sway me.

Darunia - Sage of Legend

[Raien]

^What inconsistencies between TWW and ALTTP's manual? News to me that any exist...

[Ogmios22188]

^What inconsistencies between TWW and ALTTP's manual? News to me that any exist...

Probably that they both refer to a past that sounds like Ocarina of Time without referring to each other. He also states that if A Link to the Past takes place after The Wind Waker, Ganon will have to be sealed again in another sealing war. I just think he thinks the likelihood of two sealing wars doubtful.

[Raien]

Probably that they both refer to a past that sounds like Ocarina of Time without referring to each other. He also states that if A Link to the Past takes place after The Wind Waker, Ganon will have to be sealed again in another sealing war. I just think he thinks the likelihood of two sealing wars doubtful.

FSA is a Seal War, so you can't escape the fact that more than one Seal War occurs in the timeline. A third Seal War with the Knights of Hyrule instead of the Hero makes a lot of sense in the context of what it achieves in connecting OoT to ALTTP.

[Jumbie]

For all we know, Link came back and did just like I said, he made up this tale, and used his possession of the ToC as evidence to back up what he was saying. Nothing about this theory seems illogical.

Except that you have *zero* evidence for this being true.

If my theory be true, then of course the things in TWW would still make sense, because they'd all be based on what Link told them when he returned. It just seems to me like you're basing everything off of the assumption that the "adult timeline" still existed when Link was sent back.

Of course I'm basing it off of that - like 99% of Zelda theorists are. That OoT's future was preserved is not an assumption, it's a canon fact by the memories of Ganondorf in TWW. So you really didn't read anything of what I wrote, huh? Look once more, closely:

Ganon refers to the scene in OoT before the duel of him and Link where he tried to reunite the Triforce once before. It comes from his own experience, like all the memories he has of the Hero of Time who defeated him.

Ganondorf in TWW remembers everything that happened in OoT's Adult half. Period.

If that were true, then why don't the stories that became legend speak of this? They speak of his traveling through time, but not his leaving the future to go back to the past.

Because timeline physics are simply not a topic of legends, but a topic of 20th/21st century scientists and authors.

Which is why I believe that the "adult timeline" was scrubbed from history when Link retuened, save for the tale that he told when he got back.

This is the silliest Single Timeline theory ever. I actually thought no one would believe that nonsense anymore, nowadays.

[Chaltab]

FSA is a Seal War, so you can't escape the fact that more than one Seal War occurs in the timeline. A third Seal War with the Knights of Hyrule instead of the Hero makes a lot of sense in the context of what it achieves in connecting OoT to ALTTP.

Hm... I'm starting to think that Ganon being reincarnated as Ganondorf is actually a way to get around the original seal created in Ocarina of Time. The seal as we know it in Ocarina of Time is never, to my knowledge, is broken only in ALTTP. This would mean, in my mind (and using the timeline in my signature) at least, that TWW, FSA, and OOX were all botched attempts to circumvent the Seal rather than break it.

Edited by Chaltab, 09 November 2006 - 04:29 PM.

[Darunia]

Edit: Messed up post. Will update later.

Darunia - Sage of Legand

Edited by Darunia, 10 November 2006 - 02:27 AM.

[Raien]

Hm... I'm starting to think that Ganon being reincarnated as Ganondorf is actually a way to get around the original seal created in Ocarina of Time. The seal as we know it in Ocarina of Time is never, to my knowledge, is broken only in ALTTP. This would mean, in my mind (and using the timeline in my signature) at least, that TWW, FSA, and OOX were all botched attempts to circumvent the Seal rather than break it.

The seal on Ganondorf in OoT was broken in the intro story to TWW. Whether we will see this breaking for ourselves in a future game is not yet known.

The seal on Ganon in FSA is, in my opinion, waiting to be broken in a yet-to-be-made sequel, which will also show Ganon's death again and possibly reveal the origins of the Silver Arrows.

The seal on Ganon in ALTTP's manual was broken by Agahnim in ALTTP. Ganon was then killed, but we know he had the potential to be revived, which is what happens in LoZ and OoX.

Edited by jhurvid, 10 November 2006 - 07:33 AM.

[LionHarted]

The seal on Ganondorf in OoT was broken in the intro story to TWW. Whether we will see this breaking for ourselves in a future game is not yet known.

Speculation.

[Raien]

Speculation.

By "broken", I also mean "released". It's simpler to say broken.

[LionHarted]

By "broken", I also mean "released". It's simpler to say broken.

Again, it's speculation that the seal vanishes in any way, shape, or form at all.

[Arturo]

What is speculation is saying you can escape without breaking the seal. You cannot go against canon. Unless TP shows it (which I doubt) you cannot say it.

[LionHarted]

What is speculation is saying you can escape without breaking the seal.

No, it's not.

Since he doesn't enter the world through the Sacred Realm, apparently--he reenters the world from the "depths of the earth"--it's speculative to say anything at all with respect to his escape. TWW doesn't show it, you cannot say it.

Edited by LionHarted, 10 November 2006 - 01:12 PM.

[Arturo]

He's sealed in Oot in the Sacred Realm, so he should come from the Sacred Realm. Saying otherwise is speculating.

[Raien]

Since he doesn't enter the world through the Sacred Realm, apparently--he reenters the world from the "depths of the earth"--it's speculative to say anything at all with respect to his escape. TWW doesn't show it, you cannot say it.

Didn't we identify earlier that the "depths of the earth" point was representative of the Dark World/Evil Realm, like in AoL?

Edited by jhurvid, 10 November 2006 - 01:15 PM.

[LionHarted]

He's sealed in Oot in the Sacred Realm, so he should come from the Sacred Realm. Saying otherwise is speculating.

He doesn't. He comes from the "depths of the earth". The Sacred Realm is at the point where the goddesses left the world, in the heavens. Again, the descriptions don't match.

Edited by LionHarted, 10 November 2006 - 01:15 PM.

[Arturo]

The portal to the SR could be in the depths of the earth. Or the people could have misunderstood. Or maybe OoT isn't the game they are talking about in TWW, so we have four Seal Wars.... or weren't they seven?

[Raien]

If light comes from the sky and darkness comes from below, then the depths of the earth could represent darkness and the Dark World, which has taken over the Sacred Realm prior to TWW.

[Chaltab]

Okay, for the record, TWW Intro.

It does say that the Evil returned from the depths of the earth, but it never says that the seal was actually broken. Until we have evidence to prove otherwise, I'm going to assume for my timeline that he circumvented the seal until A Link to the Past.

The portal to the SR could be in the depths of the earth. Or the people could have misunderstood. Or maybe OoT isn't the game they are talking about in TWW

It explicitly references the Hero of Time, and Link of Ocarina is the only one to hold that title in the games that have been released.

[Arturo]

It was supposed to be humorous.

[Ogmios22188]

From my memory, by having Laruto and Fado killed, the seal was weakened, because the Master Sword, which was the key for the seal, wasn't at full power. So, he was able to escape, but without all of his power. When Link removed the Master Sword from the pedestal, Ganondorf had his full power again.

[Chaltab]

It was supposed to be humorous.

Ah, sorry, sarcasm can be hard to detect in text.

[Arturo]

It's OK....

I should have put an emoticon or something...

[Chaltab]

From my memory, by having Laruto and Fado killed, the seal was weakened, because the Master Sword, which was the key for the seal, wasn't at full power. So, he was able to escape, but without all of his power. When Link removed the Master Sword from the pedestal, Ganondorf had his full power again.

So in this sense it is something more like; Ganon tricked Link into unlocking the door. In ALTTP he bashed the door down, figuratively speaking. I like the idea that putting the Master Sword through Ganondof's cerebral cortex sort of put the seal back in place and effectively killed his physical body.

[jman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm hearing people say that Ganon can bypass the seal that was put on him? I believe this to be untrue, however, it depends what you think the seal actually is in the first place.. Is it:
A) A barrier which keeps Ganon (physcially and otherwise) in the the SR
B) A barrier which keeps his evil power in the SR, but not his body
or C) None of the above

I think it's A but I could be wrong... I don't believe the seal can be bypassed, if Ganon's out he's broken the seal somehow, doesn't matter how he got out I don't believe he could have done so without breaking that seal, because that is what the original seal is, a preventive barrier from letting Ganon out of the sacred realm i.e. Only way out is to go through the seal. Until we are given more details about the seal or how Ganon escaped from the SR in WW, isn't Ganon breaking the OOT seal the way of stringing OOT to WW without using fanfiction?

[LionHarted]

I guarantee that the seal can be bypassed, because you do so with the Magic Mirror in ALttP.

[jman]

I guarantee that the seal can be bypassed, because you do so with the Magic Mirror in ALttP.

But when you use the magic mirror, the original seal has been broken hasn't it? Doesn't Link get the master sword and chase Agahnim, then Link sees Agahnim sending Zelda into the Dark world and this is when the seal is broken. The magic mirror comes after this does it not?

[LionHarted]

But when you use the magic mirror, the original seal has been broken hasn't it?

No. The first time you go to the Dark World is prior to the breaking of the seal. You do so in order to reach the Tower of Hera so that you can find the Moon Pearl (and get the third pendant), and you use the Magic Mirror to get on top of Spectacle Rock. This all comes prior to getting the Master Sword.

Edited by LionHarted, 14 November 2006 - 09:09 AM.