We're not talking about the time-freezing seal on Sunken Hyrule, I was commenting on the Seal on the Sacred Realm Ganondorf originally escaped on. Learn how to follow conversations.
We're talking about the "seal of the gods" (the one in the translation thread) not the Hero of Time/sages' seal.
Only the details that would be relevant to OoT's placement are left and only those that would contradict it after TWW's release are gone.
The storyline itself isn't different; I'm not arguing that the events of the IW prologue magically changed.
I'm simply arguing that the events relevant to the player have changed; the creators no longer see fit to include Ganon's involvement in the IW in the prologue. I'm speculating as to why, of course, but all interpretation involves speculation.
You're also the same guy who tried to argue that the Sleeping Zelda story didn't change even when they trimmed it down and seemed to imply it was the same Zelda as the one from AOL.
The Sleeping Zelda story didn't change in Japanese for the GBA version.
Ganondorf finds the Sacred Realm. He takes the Triforce. Imprisoning War. ???????????????? Ganondorf finds the Triforce again somehow and gets LOST. LTTP tiem.
No, screw that.
IW/OoT - TWW - other stuff - FSA - Ganondorf rediscovers the Sacred Realm - He takes the Triforce (which had to return to the Sacred Realm sometime after OoT in any theory) - He is unable to return to the world of Light (sages' seal) - He uses Agahnim - ALttP tiem
1) Sages seal referenced in TWW because Ganon broke free and caused the calamity resulting in the flood; tells you what happened since the last game (OoT).
2) Ganon really being behind everything doesn't have anything to do with Vaati's seal. NO HE JUST TRICKS YOU INTO BREAKING IT! *facepalm* It's called a plot twist. You might have heard of it;It's everywhere in literature.
3) Okay, seriously, what are you talking about? When were the Twili 'the cause of the calamities?' Unless you're talking about Zant, in which case Ganondorf being behind everything is completely related. Oh, and again: wow a plot twist.
1) And, in ALttP, sages' seal referenced because Ganon is trying to break free
2) ALttP has a plot twist, too; you're too late to save Zelda and the sages' seal and you have to go into the Dark World and confront Ganon, who is behind everything
3) See above; Zant's role mirrors Agahnim's, the Twili's seal mirrors the IW
You know that ALttP GBA came out in 2002 in the US, right?
The Japanese version of the game is the authoritative one when disputes arise, no?
The connection between OoT and ALttP was messy due to their differences on several things, and he didn't want these problems interfering with his new games. So he changed it with TWW.
How many of these things don't involve Ganon (which, again, is the element I'm arguing as being in need of change)?
ALttP shows a Hyrule which is very much the same as OoT's.
Au contraire: OoT shows a Hyrule which is very much the same as ALttP's, but that was before the concept of a flood was developed. The only Child timeline absolute besides OoT shows a Hyrule which is very much different from ALttP's.
And much like the fucking back of the box, there is only ONE possible interpretation to any normal person who plays ALttP, and that is that the manual and the sages talk about the same events. Which we know was the intent.
Funny, I can argue the same about interpreting OoT as the IW. And OoT hasn't
had a rerelease with changes to the presentation of the backstory.
The intent that OoT is the IW postdates the intent that the ALttP maidens describe the IW. OoT=IW is the more recent intent. I'm arguing that the intent has changed, much the same as you.
Difference is, you have no evidence of changes to OoT while I have evidence of changes to ALttP.
Tell me, if only the manual specifically needs to refer to OoT, then WHY IS IT NOTHING LIKE OOT?
It's exactly like OoT.
1) Goddesses create the world
2) People quarrel
3) Someone opens the Sacred Realm
4) Darkness flows from it
5) Sages are called
6) Knights bear attacks of evil monsters
7) Sages complete seal on Sacred Realm
That's what YOU'RE doing. There are no recent quotes contradicting anything I've said, only your delusional idea of what constitutes a logical timeline. You're the one relying on intent that's 10 years old.
The most recent quotes ARE 10 years old. Your IW intent is 17 years old, on the other hand.
So let me get this straight, Lex:
That's honestly how you read that quote?
His name is Ganondorf.
He obtained the power of the gods, planned on transforming the world into a Makai of darkness, and was sealed by the power of the gods.
The emperor of the Makai in the ancient legend (that I just told you) is that Ganondorf. (that I mentioned two sentences ago.)
No, I see what you're saying here; I'm just not seeing why the name of Ganondorf has to be known to Link.
Tell you what, give GBA ALttP to someone who has either played limited Zelda or no Zelda, then ask them if they think that the bad stuff in the backstory is referencing the villain of the game or not. If they say no, then I'll believe you.
The vast majority of people I know who played TP thought Ganondorf was the leader of the Shadow Clan.
Just an example of how first impressions can be misleading.
What you're suggesting (That Nintendo threw in-game consistency with its backstory out the window to favor a storyline connection [not to mention supported it with minute changes in its manual that most people wouldn't notice]) is in direct contradiction to their well established policy of throwing storyline connections out the window to favor a cohesive game. As Impossible will gladly tell you for the 5 billionth time.
The consistency still exists; Ganon still rediscovered the Sacred Realm, took the Triforce, and is trying to break the sages' seal to conquer the world of light. I don't see how that "throws in-game consistency out the window." All I'm saying is that the information that no longer appears in the GBA ALttP manual is not a part of the GBA ALttP story. It's actually not even a logical leap; it's acknowledgment of a simple fact. If Ganondorf is not a part of the GBA ALttP prologue, then there's no explicit reason to believe that his involvement in it in fact matters in ALttP. If OoT is supposed to be the IW, he can no longer be involved in it if storyline consistency is to be maintained. If OoT is not supposed to be the IW, then his non-appearance in the ALttP GBA prologue is meaningless.
I frankly don't see how coming to a conclusion based on changes in story text is such a heinous thing; coming to a conclusion based on the subjectively-predicted consequences of another story is apparently good and well even though it relies completely on the interpretation of the player.
Edited by Lexxi Aileron, 13 September 2008 - 04:25 AM.