506 replies to this topic

[Crimson Lego]

STOP REFERRING TO THE NOA MISTRANSLATION! The Sages overestimated their ability to CONTROL the evil magic, according to the original Japanese script. "Control" means "to restrict" or "to subdue"; it can only refer to the Sages having captured Ganondorf.

Ok! Ok! I'm done being stupid. He doesn' die. Anyway! Why can't the restrict and subdue part be about sending him to the TR? Isn't that like trying to subdue him? Why would they refer to the execution as a "subdue" or "restrict" when they are clearly trying to "eliminate"? That's my point.

]Are you honestly trying to say the term "overestimated our power" would mean "We should have checked if Ganondorf had the Triforce before we attempted to off him" to anyone but a timeline theorist such as yourself?

I think to a common person that would mean he had more power then they expected. Which-is-what-it pretty much means. Which is why the TR didn't hold him like they had thought. HA!

The TR did hold him. Ganondorf said near the end of TP, "their anguish was my nourishment." That pretty much says he was subdued or something until the Twili awoke him..

[FDL]

That's not really what we were talking about...

[Lexxi Aileron]

If OoT is the IW then everyone must have forgotten about the HoT's role by the time ALttP happens. And yet in the WW backstory and to a lesser extent in WW itself, everyone knows about the HoT. How does that work?

The Hero of Time's appearance would not be entirely relevant to ALttP-- that and it wasn't developed until after. The appearance of heroes from the bloodlines of the Knights, however, would, but without something like OoT as a precedent, the pattern could never have been recognized. The elders even say "we thought a hero would never again appear" implying that there have been heroes before. The idea that Link and the Master Sword disappear for seven years was clearly done as an intended plot twist to the original idea that the Master Sword and hero were not found in time to stop the attack on the light world-- all the sage descendants know where the Master Sword is in ALttP, so it can't be that no one knew where it's resting place is.

[jacensolo06]

That wasn't meant to be about OoT being the IW. As we all know, OoT was originally developed to be the IW. My point was that ALttP couldn't occur between OoT and WW as wring was suggesting.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Well, the point of the argument is that it wasn't necessarily forgotten-- just not relevant. Someone could make a sound argument that the precedent of a hero reappearing over time would provide context for the belief that the hero would appear hundreds of years after the flood.

[jacensolo06]

Okay, I see what you're saying.

[wring]

Well, I see one problem with my theory. The game does say that when the Hero of Time left, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight pieces. But I think that can be explained by saying it didn't happen instantly. It says the pieces were hidden if I'm not mistaken, which implies somebody went around hidding the pieces. He couldn't have hid them immediately after HoT left. So I say there's a gap between when the HoT left, and when the pieces of the Triforce of Courage were split apart and hidden. And I'm still using the picture on the Intro where it shows the people praying to a completed Triforce as evidence that LttP happens during the legend shown in the intro, but isn't mentioned because its not relavent to the legend.

[MikePetersSucks]

Well, I see one problem with my theory. The game does say that when the Hero of Time left, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight pieces. But I think that can be explained by saying it didn't happen instantly. It says the pieces were hidden if I'm not mistaken, which implies somebody went around hidding the pieces. He couldn't have hid them immediately after HoT left. So I say there's a gap between when the HoT left, and when the pieces of the Triforce of Courage were split apart and hidden.

I'm in partial agreement, since Hyrule wasn't flooded when OOT Link left. What happened was he probably went back in time, causing the Triforce of Courage to split, and the pieces were hid shortly after.

And I'm still using the picture on the Intro where it shows the people praying to a completed Triforce as evidence that LttP happens during the legend shown in the intro

It's symbolic imagery. People don't literally pray to the Triforce floating right above their heads, it's an icon to represent the Goddesses.

[FDL]

Question is, where was the ToC after Link left? Who "received" it and hid the pieces?

[MikePetersSucks]

Question is, where was the ToC after Link left? Who "received" it and hid the pieces?

The Royal Family, probably. Or they hid themselves with magic. Or monsters did it.

[CID Farwin]

Question is, where was the ToC after Link left? Who "received" it and hid the pieces?

I was under the impression that

when the Hero of Time traveled through time and left Hyrule, he was separated from the source of being a hero and the Triforce of Courage turned into 8 fragments and scattered throughout the land.

The pieces aren't "hidden," (on of my main problems with TWW,) they scatter. So what's the problem?

[Raien]

The pieces aren't "hidden," (one of my main problems with TWW,) they scatter. So what's the problem?

I was making the same argument in my previous post, but then I realised that someone had to know the ToC split to begin with, and then the maps and chests establish that the locations of the shards were known.

[CID Farwin]

The pieces aren't "hidden," (one of my main problems with TWW,) they scatter. So what's the problem?

I was making the same argument in my previous post, but then I realised that someone had to know the ToC split to begin with, and then the maps and chests establish that the locations of the shards were known.

Hm, that does pose quite a conundrum.

Though the maps are charts on the great sea...so they would have to have been made after the flood.

unless they're magic maps....

[FDL]

I've considered that as well.

[MikePetersSucks]

I was guessing magic maps too. Otherwise, why else would we shell money out to Tingle so he can otherwise pointlessly dance? They're probably illegible, and a spell of some sort makes them reflect the current location of the Triforce Shard at the point of the spell's casting.

[wring]

Or someone found the Triforce shard, and then burried it, made a map to remember where he put it, and then died.

[Arturo]

And how did Tingle make the IN-credible chart then?

[Lexxi Aileron]

Tingle can read the charts and intuitively knows what they are for; is it too far a stretch to say he made them?

[MikePetersSucks]

My explanation works better. I highly doubt that Tingle, given his comical nature, would even realize the importance of the shards and make the point of mapping them out.

[wring]

He wouldn't have to realise their importance to make a map of them. He could just find out their are eight treasure maps that show where the shards of some gold object is.

[Lexxi Aileron]

Tingle is expressly a mapmaker. I don't see how any explanations works better than that, especially given he can read them when no one else can, not even the KingShip.

[Raien]

One thing I think we're all forgetting is that the Hylians didn't lose their language or their culture instantaneously when the Great Flood hit. The first islanders most likely designed the maps with the Hylian language, which only Tingle's ancestors were able to remember over the years.

Edited by Raian, 28 October 2008 - 04:39 PM.

[jacensolo06]

If it was in Hylian, wouldn't the King of Red Lions be able to read it?

[Raien]

If it was in Hylian, wouldn't the King of Red Lions be able to read it?

New idea. An image isn't affected by language, so Tingle couldn't be translating a language. Perhaps the original map was of Hyrule, and Tingle's translation relates it to the surface world. Perhaps Tingle's family remained aware of Hyrule over the years.

Edited by Raian, 28 October 2008 - 04:47 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Tingle is expressly a mapmaker. I don't see how any explanations works better than that, especially given he can read them when no one else can, not even the KingShip.

He's a map-translator in TWW. That doesn't mean he made them, and he obviously used magic to translate them anyway.

[wring]

I don't think Tingle knows much magic, if any. I've never seen Tingle use magic before, anyways.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yea, except what he did to translate the maps right there infront of you. He's Hylian, it's not like possessing magic is at all weird or unusual.