205 replies to this topic

[lord-of-shadow]

Argue semantics all you want TSA, you knew what I meant.

I can't classify or give a definition of the Zelda essence - how can you describe or classify a feeling? A feeling that I have only ever gotten from playing Zelda games? LttP and LA have it most strongly for me. OoT has it nearly as much. The Oracles games lacked it completely. MM didn't have it, but had it's own brand of... Zelda. The NES games don't age well, so I can't really comment on them. Even tWW had it, despite being fairly bad, for a Zelda game.

But no movie could possibly have it. It is impossible.

Music, in the games, is an integral part of that essence. Even hearing a remix of some Zelda tunes is enough for me.

Art - excuse me, drawings/paintings/sketches/images - doesn't really have it, but it doesn't hurt anything for it to exist. And they have some truly beautiful pictures out there.


No matter how much you break it down and study the matter scientifically, I believe a Zelda movie, no matter how good, no matter who did it -yes, even if you directed, TSA - would be a disaster. It might be a good movie, but it would not be a good Zelda movie.

[Roy]

The reason why people won't say it is a good Zelda movie as you put it, is that there are so many people unwilling to let go of the notion that a form of entertainment can be expanded into other types. It could become the greatest movie of all time and the huge fan boys of the series are never going to see beyond that. If you take something like Spider-man that was turned into a movie, a really good movie as well, and that is a relation of how it can be transformed into something great to bring even more people. It might be in a comic book, but a video game is like a living comic book because you can see all that characters on the pages and the play out a story for you. And for the companies that produce both Spider-man and Zelda have to think more about the fans rather than the over the top fans, because in the end the Spider-man movie brought more people's attention to the series than the books.

[Masamune]

Roy brings up a good point. Sometimes purists are the worst fans of all, because they're not very open to change.

And change is good. God knows I love indoor plumbing.

[Husse]

TSA has written, in a nutshell, what I believe. I think purism is just plain ugly. Sure, I'd be afraid a film would fail, and it probably wouldn't be the same for me, but regardless, I want it to happen, because if it flops, it flops, it won't change my Zelda. And if it wins the public...WOO-HOO! Respect for fans everywhere! New interest spawned! Mission accomplished!

[lord-of-shadow]

In order for a movie to be successful, it would have to deviate a very long ways from the Zelda series.

If the price for bringing the Zelda series more into the public eye than it already is is to sacrifice some things - like Link's silence - then I don't want that popularity.

And don't be fools, I don't hate change. But there are some things that should not be changed, and should not happen. A Zelda movie is one of those latter things.

[Masamune]

In cartoons, Link has talked. In the comics Link talked. And I'm fairly certain he talked in the manga. Him talking in a movie wouldn't be a big deal.

[Husse]

Even though the cartoons were stupid and wrong as heck...

[joeymartin64]

Yes, he spoke in the manga. I hope he starts talking in the games, too. There, I said it.

[NightStar]

Everyone, I suppose, is entitled to his/her opinion on a Zelda movie. I think that it will happen eventually and either you will love it or you hate it. I, personally, am all for capturing the Legend of Zelda in movie format and that is where I stand. If you disagree that is your prerogative to do so.

[Husse]

Hm...I don't mind him speaking so long as his voice isn't too deep or too high or too squeaky and if it adheres to his personality, which, IMO, in OoT, was mellow, deep sense of justice, wants to belong, slight sense of humor, shy but friendly, and of course...naive and clueless in the ways of love...and evil, for that matter, the knucklehead.

[Roy]

The series has to evolve, plain and simple, if it contains on a one way course of just being in the video game genre it is going to collapse on itself because the idea can only be stretched so far. Zelda lends itself with everything it needs to be a great movie, good storyline, great characters, and a genre that has been used in many other great movies. In the end, the pros of making the movie out weigh the cons by a landslide.

[lord-of-shadow]

It seems that not only will I fail to change any minds, but I'm vastly outnumbered. I'll bow out of this discussion and allow you people to have your fantasies in peace.

And hope that they remain fantasies

[Reflectionist]

What is wrong with a british accent on one fricken character?

Do you want the movie to be like those Japanese movies that are dubbed over in english and have it look really really bad, like Godzilla?

And, did you not see the trailers for Wind Waker?

There is nothing wrong with there being a short Link, because... Link is a child! 70% of the time, Link has been roughly between 9 and 14 years old. There is a Teenage Link, whom every movie writer is going to flock to, but then, he's never older than 18. That is what gives him his character. His Youth!!!

Someone made it sound like there was gonna be a 43 year old guy running around in tights with a plastic sword, and no, this is not going to happen. So, don't complain about Link being "Short" because, he really is to begin with. That's also his character. Everyone thinks he's too PUNY to do the job he was destined to do, regardless of which story you're talking about.

Laurence Fishburne would be good in this type of movie. He isn't really really really 'king of the universe' popular, but, he's known, and he's a great actor.

What you see in the first Matrix movie, is a mysterious guy who does things that you get the impression he doesn't have any idea what he's doing them for, but he believes they have to be done. This is a lot like the OoT reference of Ganondorf you hear in Wind Waker. Of a Ganondorf that rebelled against the Kingdom of Hyrule because he wants to save his people. The Gerudo should be a group of people that are "Stereotyped" by the Hylians, and (I'm sorry, this is from a script I've read) because of a conflict they had in the past with the Hylians, they were just looked down upon as mere theives. The Gerudo have hardly any veiw of self worth, and the accusations made them who they were made out to be in the first place: common theives.

Because of this conflict, the Hylians stopped trading with them (my own ideas now, and before what i put above) and eventually, the Gerudo were beginning to starve. Their Leader, Ganondorf, who I see as an intellectual person, a good guy, strolls into the Castle and gets close to the King. Somewhere along the way, he finds some stuff about the Triforce, and that corrupts him a little bit, and when he finally lays his hands on the Triforce of Power, he's just gone. Gone. Evil. Gets a big head.

Also, all of this can be told via a flashback of Ocarina, in only 5 minutes. And with Good dialogue and everything. So, no matter what your story is, it can always come back to 'why ganon is who he is'

[Husse]

I always thought of it that way too, only Ganon doesn't have an excuse for his evil. He's evil, plain and simple, but the Gerudos are unfairly prejudiced against.

Ganon is rightfully jealous, but that doesn't change that he's also power-hungry, violent, greedy, a liar, all-around bad guy!

[Roy]

Well, considering that the Spider-man movies were very very close to the actual books I would say you aren't much of a fan of the comics either. And of course it was predictable, it is a story that many people already know so why would they go through the trouble of trying to build a whole bunch of suspense. Whether you liked the Spider-man movies or not, millions of other people flocked to the theatres to see it, and those people loved the movies and became attached to Spider-man without having to read books.

And you are missing the point of why it should be turned into a movie and that is to attract new people to the series. If you throw the same thing out at them you will get the same reaction again and again from them. A movie is not, and will never be, exactly like a video game.

[Husse]

Then why do you like Zelda so much? If something unoffiical can turn you from the angst of the greatness of Zelda, that's not it's fault. It's yours. That, I must say, was a pitiful and ignorant rant. I'm sorry you don't like Mario, now. I HATE that movie, but I still love Mario.

[Roy]

Alright, I think you seem to forget the real story behind OoT was not to save the princess because through most of the entire game she was not in any sort of trouble. Link set out in the beginning to find out his true past because the Deku Tree told him he was not a Kokiri as he thought. Then later on he met Zelda who asked for him to help her open the Temple of Time. In the future Link was trying to figure out what had happened to Hyrule and why it looked the way he did. He had no idea if Zelda was even alive, captured, or anything nor was there any indication he even cared. When Ganondorf finally captured Zelda towards the end was when Link went out to try and rescue her, so it is a much deeper storyline than you give it credit for. And if you think it is just about saving a princess why do you like Zelda so much in the first place if it is just for kids as you say.

The problem with Mario being turned into a movie is that there was no concrete storyline behind it and the producers had to change it around a lot to fit it into a storyline. That does not need to happen to the Zelda games because of the elaborate storyline involved it the game. And the point of making a movie is not to attract them to the video games, if they didn’t like the games in the first place they aren’t going to go to it because of a movie. A few on the edge might pick up the games and start playing, but for the most part it is to make Zelda even more popular than it already is. It is a business type of thing, if they want Zelda to continue to be better and better it needs to evolve past the boundaries of just being a simple video game series. A movie, therefore, is the best choice because it attracts the greatest number of people with advertisements and such, and movies are basically just a big form of entertainment.

[NightStar]

*stands up and claps for Roy*

[Reflectionist]

And, who says that a zelda movie has to have anything to do with that? can it just be about a kid trying to fulfill his destiny and find who he is?

[Marth]

Actually, I am going to have to disagree, the fact that the character's have no personality is the reason you cannot complain against it. For, what do you have to compare it to if they have none in the games. You are being to pessimistic on the fact of making a movie, you have to look at both sides and not just be so one sided. The Zelda storyline is the greatest story in video games as of yet, which means you cannot compare it to such other games you mentioned that never had such an elaborate storyline as such. I will agree with you that some of the games are about a kid rising up to the challenge of saving the world, however, the one Roy mentioned, Ocarina of Time, Link is never really wants to take on the challenge he just wants to help the people with tasks that seem innocent enough to him. In the future he is just trying to escape from whatever mess he was unwillingly dragged into.
The interaction aspect you mentioned can be filtered out of the equation quite easily if you look outside the narrow line of sight. You mentioned before that you despised the Spider-man game, saying it was a downfall to the comic book series. This is an incorrect statement for there have been more fans coming to Spider-man and willing to learn more on it because of the movie. Stan Lee even approved this movie, he had a hand in making the movie even so it was not so far off the storyline as you claim it was. The Zelda movie will have the same result, no doubt, for Nintendo and Miyamoto will not just sit back and let people mold their greatest creation into some random conglomeration of ideas the writer comes up with. The final thought you must remember in all of this is that if Nintendo and Miyamoto allow someone to create a Zelda movie it will not be based on what the over the top fan boys want it to be. No matter how great it will be, they will always complain about it because they care solely about the video game. And the people that love the movie will only love the movie and might never pick up the Zelda game. Though, Zelda still gains twice as many fans with the 2 genres combined and it would be able to continue on longer.

[Reflectionist]

This is how I veiw Link: As a child, he's hurting! In any of these stories, he's being asked to leave his home, to do something he doesn't think he is prepared to do!! He decides to take it a little bit at a time, and pretty soon, he looks back at his life as it used to be, and wants it back. The problem is, he's too committed to it now to turn back. So he continues on, into adulthood, or however you want him to be an adult.

As an adult, or teenager, he's a natural, he can kill you with a toothpick, blindfolded. He's that good. But, there is a problem. His childhood comes back to haunt him. He has dreams of things that he once loved, and he doesn't recognize them. He knows nothing except that of death, greif. He can even be skeptical of his own existance, if that gives him character. Does it?

Yes.

As it is now, I'm writing scripts of OoT and MM. They aren't anywhere close to being completed. Ocarina is only to the Gorons. MM is just getting started, with the voice overs of the monotonous Goddesses, telling you of the legend in the beginning of MM, there are little flashbacks of the ending of OoT in there as well. I'm on the verge of scrapping the OoT one, because I don't think there is enough to sympathise with Link when he has to leave his home and his friends.

When I get done, I'll start mapping out the rest of the saga "As far as historians remember" meaning that it's just going to include the games we know now, if even those. By this timeline - OoT, MM, WW, LttP, LoZ, AoL Maybe. But that is the way it's looking. Who knows, I might not even put MM in there.

EDIT: Meant to put MM instead of WW, just there. Majora's Mask has less relevance to the overall storyline than Wind Waker.

[Roy]

You are wrong about Tomb Raider, the movie is what gave it one last boost to last a bit longer before it caved in on itself. Frankly, they ran out of ideas for a well built woman to run around in caves, and people also got tired of it so they tried to go in a new direction and it failed. Zelda is not going to last much longer after tWW hit the shelves and sorta crushed the fans who came in to the games after OoT, but of course a huge fan like yourself would say they are doing just great. Maybe this new game will help them, nobody really knows, but if you look at another game that has tried to improve graphics but is dropping, Final Fantasy, you will see that all the greats will fall unless they expand to a new audience. The only reason a series might collapse by being spread out is that it doesn't have enough popularity to spread out enough. How you can say it will be so horrible is beyond me really, I mean, if Lord of the Rings was so huge there is obvious indication there that people are into that kind of genre which Zelda is also a part of. Let's see, Spider-man has expanded out into a cartoon series, movie, and is already in the comic books and he is the biggest super hero right now. So I guess I have troubles seeing your reasoning behind how a series is crushed by expanding.

[Kairu Hakubi]

reflectionist makes a good point.. even if link isn't given character, you can make one up for him that's perfectly logical based on things that happen to him.

[TSA]

Yeah - the essence of Zelda is going to be different for everyone. Hell - the creator intent vs the fan interpretation probably isn't coherent for the most expressive games (Just look at OoT).

Somebody brought up a great point about Comics and Comic Movies. YES, Comic Book movies NOW have driven comic sales WAY DOWN because fans like the movies more than the comics. The reason is: Special Effects.

Here are some great articles on comic to movie adaptations and their effects:

http://www.sacticket.com/static/movies/new...0627marvel.html


I do believe that the movies might construct a mold in the majority of the fan base that may conflict with the creator's views...but I think video games are more adaptive than comics, and I feel a movie wouldn't hurt a franchise.

Final Fantasy and Super Mario are still doing great as games...even with the movies.

And LoS - I think you are being very stereotypical and biased. I hope I get the chance to prove you wrong some day. You think just because you fricking have a controller that you can't capture the essence of Zelda? Honestly, that is what you are claiming - because a movie and a game are no different except for the controller. You control a game. You don't control a movie. It is true that a movie is the expression of one or a few people - but it can be reinterpreted just like a game is - you just have to use your imagination a bit more. And music can capture Zelda's essence, but not a movie? So Art and Music can...but not a movie? You do realize a movie is moving art and music, right?

Honestly, I seriously, 100% think you're being ignorant and I take serious offense to anyone who claims a movie has no chance of doing what a book or game can. Only superficially does it appear like a book gives you more openess than a movie. Just becaue an author wrote a book - yah, you use your imagination to create the images - but **** - that author had SET IMAGES when they wrote the book. They just failed at conveying their "imagery" because books are more mindscape in nature. Even with a movie - with visuals - you have the right to use your mind to imagine it differently. What the hell are all the fan art and fan fiction cultures out there about? People giving their own take on works.

So honestly - just because it is words, sounds, images, or a combination of all of them - it is not set in stone how you interpret it. Claiming one format has more ability to stir the imagination is horse ****. And personally, I believe movies are the end all, be all of storytelling and artwork. There is nothing more perfect.

That's my opinion. But I'm trying to get everyone to admit books and games aren't superior to movies based on the variable you can "interpret them more openly" and use your imagination. That's ignorance.

[Reflectionist]

so, are you for it or against it?