200 replies to this topic

[Chaltab]

This isn't the real deal, but a concept made by IGN.com. But it conveyes the idea very nicely, and hopefully, the real thing will resemble this.

[Mystic Kitsune]

Thats pretty cool! Although thats just a concept...

[Skyreus]

This isn't the real deal, but a concept made by IGN.com. But it conveyes the idea very nicely, and hopefully, the real thing will resemble this.

I'm thinking that Nintendo might revert to using the diamond shaped button layout.

To be fair, Nintendo has intensely high quality of game design, a massive back catalogue of game characters and suchforth, an ability to make highly durable and reliable consoles, a shedload of experience, etc.

Oh, and Pokemon.

So, no, innovation isn't Nintendo's only card to play with.  But it's still a powerful one.

Nintendo's past strengths are definitely an asset, just that the innovation is the biggest key factor and if it fails even those can't help them now.

EDIT: Just a note, no need to mention Pokémon separately really since in the home console market its impact is much smaller when compared to Mario, The Legend of Zelda and Super Smash Bros. Now if we're mentioning the DS that's another story all together...

It's entirely relevant to the discussion: Go back and actually read my first post in this topic. The one that GJ replied to, that I responded to, and that you quoted me from. Since we're in the process of gathering information about the Revolution controller, one of the best sources for unbiased feedback based on significant experience is the third parties. Their relationship with Nintendo becomes relevant in the course of this process.

I mainly targeted your comment on the pricing issue, which while brought them where they are now isn't as relevant on how they're moving in the future. It's a good history lesson to show why Nintendo's in the position they're in, but it won't help us know where Nintendo's heading in the future from here.

And if we're going to talk about irrelevant tangents, bringing up Sony's hatred for 2D games in a topic about the Revolution controller.

Haha, yeah I guess I went off on that and kept rolling .

And so does most of their criticism, both of their present and historic practices. A large number of my co-workers have rather extensive backgrounds in the game industry, and they'll be the first to shoot down Nintendo's historic practices of hording this information then expecting all developers to work it out for themselves, while telling them they're not allowed to talk to each other.

Already mentioned Nintendo's secrecy is a problem. Just also mentioning that Nintendo's also been providing support, something that we can't expect from them a couple of years ago. Problems are still around, but big steps have been taken from previous times.

The wink suggests sarcasm, but look at the N64. Nintendo's practices over the course of the SNES lifespan are one of the primary causes both of their poor developer relationships and the scams that would lead into the anti-trust cases.

That's just in context of what you posted, no matter what the 1st party does if they're king of the hill the 3rd parties will toss support to them. Main reason why they stuck with Nintendo through the NES days and still stuck with them during the SNES days despite the fact that Genesis was able to allow retailers to go away from Nintendo's bullying. That's why I added the wink .

And again, if we're going to talk about Nintendo's recent developer support, I'd really like an explanation as to why they only gave developers two OSI layers to build on top of. Either it's dangerously stupid or it's an aggressive move against competitors on their part. Especially factoring for the difficulties developers had already faced with GBA connectivity.

No, there've been situations of people rumor-mongering and fan communities being unable to distinguish rumors from reality. When third-party developers come to SCEA asking to have their products published by them in North America, they're going to be rejected if Sony doesn't see them as commercially viable. Hint: Any company coming to SCEA to offload their publishing hasn't been viable in North America. Sony has always been perfectly happy to let third-parties publish whatever they want, even if it's complete garbage (Can't get much more 2D and underinspiring for use of the PS2's power ).

There are some that are likely rumors (doubt SCEA would give trouble to Capcom for Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 after all), but the SNK Playmore situation was definitely quite true (there was even a follow up story on the compromise) and SNK Playmore sure wasn't going after Sony to publish their own title since they publish their own games. Your Tetris Worlds argument is a good one but nevertheless there have been incidents where Sony (or rather more specifically SCEA) didn't allow publishers to release a title here without some sort of compromise.

Hi, History here again. This time I've brought my friend Trend. He's also a bitch. Have a problem with Trend being a bitch? Take it up with the person that started him!

Oh, and still me, History. It seems that I actually am extremely relevant: Despite the fall of the Soviet Union being long dead, its social and economic implications still resonate throughout Europe and Asian. See, it seems my friend Future bases a lot of his decisions on what I do.

*sigh* I know that Nintendo's past does have a lasting impact, but apparently I'm not wording myself correctly to you. I'll just try one more time...
Nintendo's N64 being unfriendly for 2D games is something 5+ years ago, Nintendo's high licensing fees and obscenely costly proprietary formats are a thing of the past (the GBA did have high royalties but Nintendo managed to fix that up in time for the PSP), Nintendo's press and to add on top of things Namco's rather hateful comments made during the PSX/N64 generation are also a thing of the past (look at them now, one of the few big publishers that still somewhat consistantly works with Nintendo on the Cube). The point I'm making is that the damage is done and Nintendo is working towards fixing things. We know what the damage is, but now it's time to look at the future to see what steps are taken (or not) to fix it.

We study Soviet Russia to see how it got into its current condition, but we look at what they're doing now to see if they can get out of it. Let's switch over to China, we look at Mao's policies to see how they started to decline during his rule but if we were living at Deng Xiaopings time we would be studying how his policies are changing the direction of the country. We use the past to see how we got to the present, but we examine the present and near past to see what steps are taken that will change the future. Maybe if Nintendo's reverting back to their old policies or some other 1st party is following in the footsteps of Nintendo of the old we can bring up what happened then, basically using history as a lesson, but that's not really the case here.

Nintendo's old policies of high costs put towards 3rd parties have fallen apart... but that was over five years ago and we know that it hurt them just looking at present conditions, now to see how things will change in the future we have to study more recent things. Your comment about the two OSI layers in the DS is pertinent and useful to the topic at hand, you commenting on Nintendo's old pricing policies however aren't.

EDIT:

The major 3rd party companies have complemented the controller nicely and have shown interest in producing games for Revolution.  And besides, just try out Revolution when it comes out.  You just might like Green Eggs & Ham.

Don't always take the comments from 3rd parties at face value, there's a lot more to things than that. EA and Ubisoft will likely support the Rev with multiplatform titles, don't expect them to really take the time to remodel their games to fully support the Rev though unless the system happens to really take off (which means nothing's going to be happening early that's for sure). Then there's Hideo Kojima's quote, which shows he's really throwing support since his past really hasn't shown him much excited outside of his own little work (he's just really really cynical... with a bit of arrogance).
Despite my mention of Yuji Horii, I'm not entirely sure about him as I haven't really read much interviews and quotes from him.

[Flint]

Well i'm officially not getting a Revolution.

[JRPomazon]

I may not look as "sexy" as the other controllers do, but until at least one of us tries it out, we can be certain of the Revolution.

[Flint]

Tries it out, schmies it out. It's stupid.

[JRPomazon]

Tries it out, schmies it out. It's stupid.

You should be more open to these kinda of things.

[Flint]

No. Not these kinds of things. It's hideous. A bloody TV remote connected by cord to a knob with a control stick and one button. This form of "innovation" is complately idiotic and unnecessary. Did you watch the video? It was a bunch of old people playing Beatmania games and Sports games. I hate gyroscopic features. Let me control my character with a joystick or D-pad, please. I don't want to look (or feel) like an idiot as I play my video games, nor do I want to break a sweat, unless it's DDR.

Let's be realistic, people: Just because you have the balls to do something different doesn't mean that something is automatically good. Same holds true for it being a Nintendo product. Nintendo isn't excused from failures. Look at the Virtua Boy.

[SteveT]

Let's be realistic, people: Just because you have the balls to do something different doesn't mean that something is automatically good.

From the point of view of someone who considered not buy ANY of the next gen consoles because videogames have been nothing but repetitive lately and the new consoles showed no signs of innovation, different IS automatically good. It's got me interested in videogames agian, at least until I've tested it out.

[Koji]

Different isn't automatically bad either. You don't know how the controller's going to handle. You saw a video that was meant to capture your attention, give a small demonstration, and then let you think of the possibilities. That's what Nintendo does. And I doubt you're going to look stupid. You seem to have completely missed the clip of the video where the girl was (based on the sounds) playing a Mario game. No giant arm motions. Just some small flicks of the wrist. Yup...REEEEAL stupid looking. Besides - how many times during a game have you actually moved the controller because the action was so intense you couldn't help but think that doing so may aid you in some way? We've all done it. Now - it'll actually do something. I have complete faith in Nintendo. Aside from VirtualBoy, they've given me nothing but quality, seal of Nintendo labeled fun. If some one's going to make this work - it'll be them.

On the otherside of things - think of what this could do for the video game world. Nintendo has always been like a gateway drug to the videogame world. I bet that the majority of gamers started off with a Nintendo system. It's the way the world works. Now, they've simplified the interface to such an extent that playing video games doesn't mean holding some hunk of plastic with a zillion buttons all over it. Now playing video games looks as simple as turning on your TV. This will bring not only more new (child) gamers to the market - but it has the potential to bring anyone to the market. Anyone who, as a kid, handed their mom or dad the controller only to here them say what? "What button do I push?" Now you can tell them - "You don't - just move it with your hand."

For everyone who sees this as weird or too new or are scared away from it because of the design - I feel sorry for you. If you people ruled the gaming world, I have no doubt that the only direction video games would go would be to add a couple of more polygons every system generation. Then when you're plugging away at "Halo 6" and "GTA: Yukutat, Alaska" you'll realize that you're bored. Because there's nothing new. Everything's been done as far as it can go. Nintendo has always opened doors. Everywhere. And while they've worked on fixing 3rd party problems in an effort to bring you boring people back because they do like money, they've never stopped innovating. And I pray they never do. The person who said that this is a step towards virtual reality - they're right. And who hasn't wanted to game in virtual reality? I see this as a tremendous leap forward, disguised to many as leap backward or a step sideways. Nintendo may have pulled this card a generation of consoles earlier than maybe would have been more accepted - but it was a card that was going to be pulled eventually.

[Dryth]

I mainly targeted your comment on the pricing issue, which while brought them where they are now isn't as relevant on how they're moving in the future. It's a good history lesson to show why Nintendo's in the position they're in, but it won't help us know where Nintendo's heading in the future from here.

Sure it will. Nintendo is still Nintendo and most of the major third-parties are the same. The relationships they have in the future will be impacted by their past experiences with one another. That pricing was once an issue will always be reflected in the strategies of both Nintendo's third parties and Nintendo itself; a lot of what they're doing now is clear reaction to their past missteps.

Already mentioned Nintendo's secrecy is a problem. Just also mentioning that Nintendo's also been providing support, something that we can't expect from them a couple of years ago. Problems are still around, but big steps have been taken from previous times.

Again, I'm talking as recently as the DS. That is, they aren't providing the support that developers want up to this very minute. And rather than addressing the immediate concerns of WiFi connectivity for third-parties they've chosen to defer in favor of their own branded WiFi strategy. Which wouldn't be so bad... if it were part of the original roadmap for the platform. Developers had more and were put through less hassle with the Gamecube's network implementation.

That's just in context of what you posted, no matter what the 1st party does if they're king of the hill the 3rd parties will toss support to them. Main reason why they stuck with Nintendo through the NES days and still stuck with them during the SNES days despite the fact that Genesis was able to allow retailers to go away from Nintendo's bullying. That's why I added the wink .

If that were true, we wouldn't have seen the upset within the industry that we have. The Playstation didn't truly hit its mark until the N64 hit the market and fumbled early; its own start had been pretty lame. It was precisely when third parties committed to the PSX that it started on the road to becoming market leader, not the other way around.

There are some that are likely rumors (doubt SCEA would give trouble to Capcom for Viewtiful Joe and Killer 7 after all), but the SNK Playmore situation was definitely quite true (there was even a follow up story on the compromise) and SNK Playmore sure wasn't going after Sony to publish their own title since they publish their own games. Your Tetris Worlds argument is a good one but nevertheless there have been incidents where Sony (or rather more specifically SCEA) didn't allow publishers to release a title here without some sort of compromise.

SCEA had a publishing agreement with SNK for the original Playstation before their bankruptcy. When MS3 was ready to hit the global market, SNKP's North American division was still a marketing vessel. It was only between the Japanese and European releases that SNKP undertook the role of distributing again; they would have solicited SCEA as part of due process. It's a rare opportunity to be able to push shovelware midway into a console's life without liability.

Denying game releases in the US would only hold up until it hit court. Nintendo set the precidence here. SCEA's historic rejections also haven't been 2D-specific: Arc the Lad was rejected with the belief that RPGs weren't viable in North America. Note that that stance changed pretty quickly once there was a healthy stack of quality RPGs coming out of Japan.

Nintendo's N64 being unfriendly for 2D games is something 5+ years ago, Nintendo's high licensing fees and obscenely costly proprietary formats are a thing of the past (the GBA did have high royalties but Nintendo managed to fix that up in time for the PSP), Nintendo's press and to add on top of things Namco's rather hateful comments made during the PSX/N64 generation are also a thing of the past (look at them now, one of the few big publishers that still somewhat consistantly works with Nintendo on the Cube). The point I'm making is that the damage is done and Nintendo is working towards fixing things. We know what the damage is, but now it's time to look at the future to see what steps are taken (or not) to fix it.

But again, the past governs the future. While you're quick to cast aside past differences, you're not the one staking your livelihood on the state of competition between the major platform producers.

Swap Nintendo in the console market with Microsoft in the OS and browser markets. The DOJ filed their case against them in 1998, seven years ago. In 2001 they settled. Regardless of this fact the entire computer industry is still modelled around wariness toward Microsoft, even in markets where they're no longer dominant (e.g. servers, embedded computing), in areas where they've drastically improved (e.g. the developer network, product API training), and despite organizational changes (e.g. Balmer). The general consensus is that Microsoft only plays nice when they have no other choice.

Just like Microsoft, until Nintendo flushes out their board of executives, manages to scare off their majority shareholders, and changes its mission statement it's unlikely their image problems are going to be rectified.


As for the other discussion of different being good, I think we should all wait and see. I'm wary myself, but so far we've only had a handful of days to process the new controller, and none of us have tried it first-hand. As skeptical as I am of "innovation" it's hard to prejudge something that'll spend most of its time in your hands from pictures and videos alone.

[Fyxe]

I don't want to look (or feel) like an idiot as I play my video games, nor do I want to break a sweat, unless it's DDR.

No personal offense because this applies to pretty much anyone, but NOBODY looks cool when playing video games. Generally everyone looks quite moronic sitting with a lump of plastic in their hands staring intently at a Tv screen, and I'm sure you're no different.

And you won't be breaking a sweat, unless you find it an intense struggle to aim a Tv remote at a screen. I would suggest going to the gym.

[Nevermind]

Personally I do think that if you can master that 2.1 or 10.1 or whatever control system that they had on Perfect Dark 64, then you shouldn't have any trouble with this one.


I, however, sucked at that control type...

[Flint]

And you won't be breaking a sweat, unless you find it an intense struggle to aim a Tv remote at a screen.  I would suggest going to the gym.

I don't want to be flailing my arms around just to have my character move forward.

[D~N]

if you read the article, you would have found that the trailer was a demo; an exadurated demo. We will only have to flick our wrists around. THey just wanted to get the point across that "THIS IS A NEW INOVATIVE CONTROLLER WITH GYROSCOPE TECHNOLOGY AND IT'LL KICK ARSE!!!!"

just give it a try.

[RevolutionDude]

I guess you can say: the Revolution has begun

[ESK]

Isn't it incredible how your faith can be restored in a company just by reading a simple article?

I have to admit that I, a dedicated Nintendo fanboy, was rather dubious, even sceptic about how 'revolutionary' the Nintendo Revolution would be. When it was hinted that the DS had inspired the new controller, I was predicting a scaled down touch-screen controller that would only be used for maps and inventories. I thought to myself 'That's it for me. I'll watch from the sidelines, I'll keep my Cube, but I won't get involved with the Revolution, as it will only be underwhelming in the long run.'

Well, if you'll pardon the profanities, FUCK ME!

That controller is ingenius. It's beyond ingenius. There's no word for how mind-bogglingly ingenuis it is. And yet, as with the DS, it's one of those ideas that so bloody simple, I cannot believe that no one thought of it before. What with all this Gametrak nonsense for PS2, why on earth hadn't people thought of this before.

And it looks so unique. Perhaps not when compared to other TV remotes, but when compared with every single controller in the history of videogaming, the Nintendo Revolution controller shines though. Words fail me as to how huge this can be. If Nintendo emphasise what this controller can do, it could potentially bring Nintendo truly back into game concerning the console wars.

And one handed gaming? I was only thinking about that the other day. Thinking, "now THERE'S a Revolution". This means I'll be able to beat my sister at multiplayer games while munching on a pack of crisps or a slice of pizza. I could even rest my DS on the table next to me and play both machines at once. Ok, perhaps that's enough nonsense but the point is that one-handed gaming is such a great yet simple idea that it could turn a lot of heads. Finally we'll be able to say to our friends, "I beat Gannondorf one handed!"

Cheaper console, smaller and easier to store, famous flagship titles and now the most innovative controller ever invented. The Big N clearly has a few tricks up its sleeves.

[ESK]

BTW, dunno if anyone posted this, but the official pics and details can be found at www.gamesradar.com

[Hero of Winds]

Why do people assume this is going to be a cheap console? I can't see Nintendo selling the Revolution for less than $300.

[D~N]

That controller is ingenius. It's beyond ingenius. There's no word for how mind-bogglingly ingenuis it is. And yet, as with the DS, it's one of those ideas that so bloody simple, I cannot believe that no one thought of it before. What with all this Gametrak nonsense for PS2, why on earth hadn't people thought of this before.
 
And it looks so unique. Perhaps not when compared to other TV remotes, but when compared with every single controller in the history of videogaming, the Nintendo Revolution controller shines though. Words fail me as to how huge this can be. If Nintendo emphasise what this controller can do, it could potentially bring Nintendo truly back into game concerning the console wars.  
 
And one handed gaming? I was only thinking about that the other day. Thinking, "now THERE'S a Revolution". This means I'll be able to beat my sister at multiplayer games while munching on a pack of crisps or a slice of pizza. I could even rest my DS on the table next to me and play both machines at once. Ok, perhaps that's enough nonsense but the point is that one-handed gaming is such a great yet simple idea that it could turn a lot of heads. Finally we'll be able to say to our friends, "I beat Gannondorf one handed!"
 
Cheaper console, smaller and easier to store, famous flagship titles and now the most innovative controller ever invented. The Big N clearly has a few tricks up its sleeves.

Amen. i'm glad that a lot of people have seen that the Revolution is gunna get back into the game. And I'm really glad this'll be the cheapest one (totaly forgot about that!) Your great at explaining things, Batch. Nice litle speach!

EDIT: and HoW, it wont cost as much to make an awesome controller than a system that has 35x more power than its predecessor.

[Hero of Winds]

^New tech is always expensive. Plus, if Nintendo isn't charging anything for downloading old games or playing online, then they need to get some money elsewhere. The lowest I can see this console costing is $250, and even that's a stretch.

[D~N]

250 was my original guess, but i think it'll cost more around $275. yeah...

[SteveT]

Why do people assume this is going to be a cheap console? I can't see Nintendo selling the Revolution for less than $300.

The same reason people "assume" that Nintendo will drop out of the gaming industry entirely if they stop making consoles.

...They told us

[Hero of Winds]

The same reason people "assume" that Nintendo will drop out of the gaming industry entirely if they stop making consoles.

...They told us

Link?

[RevolutionDude]

I know for sure the Revolution will be the best console from any other video game console

[SteveT]

Link?

No, I think it was Iwata

[Ken the Wandering Soul]

Har har, SteveT.

"Of course, we are applying advances in technology. But when you use those advances just to boost the processing power, the trade-off is that you increase power consumption, make the machine more expensive and make developing games more expensive. When I look at the balance of that trade-off -- what you gain and what you lose -- I don't think it's good. Nintendo is applying the benefits of advanced technology, but we're using it to make our machines more power-efficient, quieter and faster to start. And we're making a brand-new user interface. I think that way of thinking is the biggest difference."

....So said Iwata.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/522/522559p1.html

[Flint]

I believe it's safe to predict that the size of the Revolution's game library will be pretty small. I can't imagine third party companies being very excited at having to develop for this new control style. Kind makes you wonder if that has anything to do with offering downloadable old games.


But I will admit that this new controller wouldn't be that bad if it weren't for the "TV remote" part of it. If both halves of the controller were shaped identically and comfortably, I for one would be more accepting. Then again, what's the purpose in splitting the controller in two parts anyway? Uhg.. just completely pointless.

[31-Year-Old-From-Georgia]

I believe it's safe to predict that the size of the Revolution's game library will be pretty small. I can't imagine third party companies being very excited at having to develop for this new control style. Kind makes you wonder if that has anything to do with offering downloadable old games.


But I will admit that this new controller wouldn't be that bad if it weren't for the "TV remote" part of it. If both halves of the controller were shaped identically and comfortably, I for one would be more accepting. Then again, what's the purpose in splitting the controller in two parts anyway? Uhg.. just completely pointless.

Flint... how many times must this be pointed out...?

There will be a shell that sticks to the traditional style that the third-parties will most likely use for their games.

[Alakhriveion]

I don't want to look (or feel) like an idiot as I play my video games, nor do I want to break a sweat, unless it's DDR.

Nobody- and I mean nobody- who plays Dance Dance Revolution can talk about looking like an idiot while gaming.

I believe it's safe to predict that the size of the Revolution's game library will be pretty small. I can't imagine third party companies being very excited at having to develop for this new control style. Kind makes you wonder if that has anything to do with offering downloadable old games.

That've actually got a good number of people signed on considering it was just shown a few days ago (And no, showing us what the case looks like didn't count)

But I will admit that this new controller wouldn't be thatbad if it weren't for the "TV remote" part of it. If both halves of the controller were shaped identically and comfortably, I for one would be more accepting. Then again, what's the purpose in splitting the controller in two parts anyway? Uhg.. just completely pointless.

The purpose of splitting the controller is so things other than control stick can be attached, shells for older games are easier to use, and the remote part can be used independantly for games that use the swinging and pointing and what-not.

I know for sure the Revolution will be the best console from any other video game console

Stop that. Really.