152 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

He most certainly is a reincarnation. The series have actively hinted at it since OoT. TWW proves it. Hell, even TMC proves it. Why do people ignore this fact...?

What the hell are you talking about? None of that is fact. TWW does not prove reincarnation whatsoever, except Ganon's line stating he's the Hero of Time reborn, but that's obviously a metaphor. Why do people ignore this fact?

And I see NO evidence of jack shit about reincarnation in TMC. Give me one quote or screenshot or SOMETHING and I'll consider your arguement. Otherwise it's baseless crap.

[Chaltab]

Well, I was about to say what PetersSucks did, but he said it. I'll reiterate it. Link, Hero of Winds is not the Hero of Time reincarnated; King Daphnes stated as much to Jabun ("no connection")

I took Ganon's line metaphorically. He is the legendary hero, but he isn't an old soul reissued to a new body.

[Hero of Legend]

What the hell are you talking about? None of that is fact. TWW does not prove reincarnation whatsoever, except Ganon's line stating he's the Hero of Time reborn, but that's obviously a metaphor.

Oh, certainly not. TWW mentions this about five times. And Ganondorf makes another comment on it, proving that he was literal. I don't have time to write it down now though...

And I see NO evidence of jack shit about reincarnation in TMC. Give me one quote or screenshot or SOMETHING and I'll consider your arguement. Otherwise it's baseless crap.

That’s funny, because I DO have a quote AND a screenshot.

Thus did Link's quest come to an end. But surely, this is not the end of Zelda and Link's adventures in Hyrule. The legend will continue... ...as long as the power of the light force echoes throughout the ages.

This obviously speaks specifically about TMC Link and Zelda. (And yet, one lifetime is shorter than "throughout the ages")

Now, look at this.



This is the hero of men. I doubt you deny that he is a Link, but in any case, his situation does fit very well with the ending of TMC. We know that he had the light force, and we also know that there was a Zelda. So TMC's backstory is part of the "legend". I will let you do the math...

Well, I was about to say what PetersSucks did, but he said it. I'll reiterate it. Link, Hero of Winds is not the Hero of Time reincarnated; King Daphnes stated as much to Jabun ("no connection")

There are several reasons not to take the King's words to literally. They could mean anything, like "He is not related to the Hero of Time". After all, Jabun asked if he had found the HoT. The King knew that Link wasn't the HoT, but he could not have known if they were connected (Or if Link even was the Hero) until Link pulled the MS and/or got the ToC. In fact, he says that Link is "It is proof that you are the true Hero" after he sees the ToC on his hand.

On the other hand, Ganondorf's statement can only mean one thing if you don't fanfic it away.

[Crazy Penguin]

Circa Ocarina of Time I think that we were supposed to believe that the Links were all related to each other. Take Ganondorf's final lines in the game.

YOU...

CURSE YOU...ZELDA!

CURSE YOU...SAGES!!

CURSE YOU...Link!

Someday...
When this seal is broken....
That is when I will exterminate
your descendants!!

As long as the Triforce of Power
is in my hand....

[MikePetersSucks]

Oh, certainly not. TWW mentions this about five times. And Ganondorf makes another comment on it, proving that he was literal. I don't have time to write it down now though...

I want evidence.

Thus did Link's quest come to an end. But surely, this is not the end of Zelda and Link's adventures in Hyrule. The legend will continue... ...as long as the power of the light force echoes throughout the ages.

This implies reincarnation....how? Link's and Zelda's have been known to have more than one adventure per lifetime. Hell, they might be talking about collective Link and Zelda's, but I don't see how that makes TMC Link a reincarnation of anybody. Especially since I put it at the beginning of the timeline.

This is the hero of men. I doubt you deny that he is a Link, but in any case, his situation does fit very well with the ending of TMC. We know that he had the light force, and we also know that there was a Zelda. So TMC's backstory is part of the "legend". I will let you do the math...

Wow. That's definately proof. Because everyone in a family tree has to be reincarnations of each other. Yee-yup. Just like the Sleeping Zelda and LOZ Zeld-wait...

There are several reasons not to take the King's words to literally. They could mean anything, like "He is not related to the Hero of Time". After all, Jabun asked if he had found the HoT. The King knew that Link wasn't the HoT, but he could not have known if they were connected (Or if Link even was the Hero) until Link pulled the MS and/or got the ToC. In fact, he says that Link is "It is proof that you are the true Hero" after he sees the ToC on his hand.

And that's why TWW Link had to be tested and grow up into a mature figure all over again? Sorry buddy, that's not how reincarnation works.

[Hero of Legend]

I want evidence.

Then there is no point in debating the timeline at all since we only have certain indications and possibilities. But if you want "evidence" then you can take a look at this...

That garb you wear... Could you be the legendary hero?

Has the king at long last found the Hero of Time?

What is the matter? Do you not understand the ancient Hylian tongue?

So...you are not the Hero of Time.

When the worst of all possible events comes to pass, and Ganon is revived once again...

One shall seek the hero who is destined to defeat the great evil...

That is the destiny the goddesses have placed upon the King of Red Lions.

Since that day, he has been sailing the Great Sea in search of a young hero not
unlike yourself.

Would the Gods send the King on a doomed search for the dead Hero of Time? Nope.

This implies reincarnation....how? Link's and Zelda's have been known to have more than one adventure per lifetime. Hell, they might be talking about collective Link and Zelda's, but I don't see how that makes TMC Link a reincarnation of anybody. Especially since I put it at the beginning of the timeline.

I see that I need to point out a few keywords...

Thus did Link's quest come to an end. But surely, this is not the end of Zelda and Link's adventures in Hyrule. The legend will continue... ...as long as the power of the light force echoes throughout the ages.

Now, again I say that you don't live for "ages". And saying that it talks about different Link and Zeldas is fanfiction since no other game has done that.

Wow. That's definately proof. Because everyone in a family tree has to be reincarnations of each other. Yee-yup. Just like the Sleeping Zelda and LOZ Zeld-wait...

Why do you say that they are related? There is no proof suporting that opinion.

But my point was that the legend at the end of TMC describes TMC's BS. So why not use this INTENDED thing as evidence?

As for LoZ and AoL Zelda... Two words: "plot hole" Seriously, Nintendo do not care about that now.

And that's why TWW Link had to be tested and grow up into a mature figure all over again? Sorry buddy, that's not how reincarnation works.

The only reason that he had to be tested was so that the gods would know that he was the Hero.

You have done well to find your way to this place.

Oh chosen one...

Accept this final challenge.

(defeated)

The path can now be opened.

Oh chosen one...

What will now happen is tied to fate.

Go forward with caution.

So, he was already the "chosen one" he just had to prove it.

[mohammedali]

Oh, certainly not. TWW mentions this about five times. And Ganondorf makes another comment on it, proving that he was literal. I don't have time to write it down now though...

It doesn't mention it 5 times at all. Post facts not fiction.

There are several reasons not to take the King's words to literally. They could mean anything, like "He is not related to the Hero of Time". After all, Jabun asked if he had found the HoT. The King knew that Link wasn't the HoT, but he could not have known if they were connected (Or if Link even was the Hero) until Link pulled the MS and/or got the ToC. In fact, he says that Link is "It is proof that you are the true Hero" after he sees the ToC on his hand.

This is rediculous. The King states there is "No Connection" between WW Link and the HoT. That is an unambigous statement. No connection rules out them being related, reincarnations, acquaintances or the same person. To know the King said there is "No connection" and then claim the WW Link is the HoT reincarnated simply goes against what we know to be true. It really doesn't work.

On the other hand, Ganondorf's statement can only mean one thing if you don't fanfic it away.

This statment doesn't mean only one thing. It's clearly an ambigous statement as the work reborn can have many different meanings. In any case, Link being a reincarnation is not the only possibility and given that WW Link and OoT Link have no connection, it's clear that we can rule it out.

Then there is no point in debating the timeline at all since we only have certain indications and possibilities. But if you want "evidence" then you can take a look at this...

None of the quotes you provided were even indications let alone 'evidence'. I'll got through them and explain why.

Deku Tree:
"That garb you wear... Could you be the legendary hero?
Has the king at long last found the Hero of Time?
What is the matter? Do you not understand the ancient Hylian tongue?
So...you are not the Hero of Time."

We are told about the garb. It's because he came of age that he was wearing it. The point is that the Deku Tree mistook him for the HoT based on clothing and that is explained at the begining of the game. It doesn't alude to any other connection.

Deku Tree:
"When the worst of all possible events comes to pass, and Ganon is revived once again... One shall seek the hero who is destined to defeat the great evil..."

There is no reason to believe that the hero has to be Link reincarnated. All the quote is saying is that when Ganon comes back, the KoRL has to find someone who can defeat him. Miyamoto even said that the hero in this case is someone who is not linked to the legend of Zelda before, and is involved in the adventure because of his sister. It's clear he was suggesting that this Link is not born to fight Ganon, but it becomes his destiny for other reasons.

I see that I need to point out a few keywords...

Re-read the quote. It says that Link and Zelda will have more adventures, and the LEGEND will echo throughout the ages. This doesn't mean that Link and Zelda will have more adventures throughout the ages - just that there legend will echo. I see that I I need to point out a few keywords

TMC:
"Thus did Link's quest come to an end. But surely, this is not the end of Zelda and Link's adventures in Hyrule. The legend will continue... ...as long as the power of the light force echoes throughout the ages."

Why do you say that they are related? There is no proof suporting that opinion.

After Sleeping Zelda was put to sleep, the prince made a law that all the females of his line would be called Zelda. All the females of his line are related to Sleeping Zelda as Sleeping and Zelda and the Prince were siblings. LoZ is part of the Royal bloodline strongly suggesting that she is related to the Prince. The fact that she is named Zelda is good as proof that she is. Hence it stands to reason that they are related. This is the clear intention of the game producers. It would be stupid to nitpick and try to deny this simply to make your theory work.

As for LoZ and AoL Zelda... Two words: "plot hole" Seriously, Nintendo do not care about that now.

This might be a valid arguement if this were IGN Boards but here it doesn't hold. To say it's a plot hole is generally not accepted. No one will take you seriously if you base your arguements on parts of the canon being overlooked.

Mohammed Ali

[Hero of Legend]

It doesn't mention it 5 times at all. Post facts not fiction.

Oh it does, indirectly.

This is rediculous. The King states there is "No Connection" between WW Link and the HoT. That is an unambigous statement. No connection rules out them being related, reincarnations, acquaintances or the same person. To know the King said there is "No connection" and then claim the WW Link is the HoT reincarnated simply goes against what we know to be true. It really doesn't work.

... How the **** can you say that, and then completely ignore Ganondorf's words? <_< Besides, the King lies, and admits that he doesn't know everything during the course of the game.

This statment doesn't mean only one thing. It's clearly an ambigous statement as the work reborn can have many different meanings. In any case, Link being a reincarnation is not the only possibility and given that WW Link and OoT Link have no connection, it's clear that we can rule it out.

Who are you to say that it can have ANY other meaning than what he says, without having ANY evidence for that OPINION? And what in your biased mind makes Ganondorf less reliable than the King?

We are told about the garb. It's because he came of age that he was wearing it. The point is that the Deku Tree mistook him for the HoT based on clothing and that is explained at the begining of the game. It doesn't alude to any other connection.

Heh. You misunderstand my point. I only quoted that for evidence that the King was searching for the HoT.

There is no reason to believe that the hero has to be Link reincarnated. All the quote is saying is that when Ganon comes back, the KoRL has to find someone who can defeat him. Miyamoto even said that the hero in this case is someone who is not linked to the legend of Zelda before, and is involved in the adventure because of his sister. It's clear he was suggesting that this Link is not born to fight Ganon, but it becomes his destiny for other reasons.

Coupled with the other quote it says that the gods told the King to look for the HoT. Don't try to change facts. And where did Miymaoto say that? Meh... It doesn't matter, the game proves him wrong.

Re-read the quote. It says that Link and Zelda will have more adventures, and the LEGEND will echo throughout the ages. This doesn't mean that Link and Zelda will have more adventures throughout the ages - just that there legend will echo. I see that I I need to point out a few keywords

The Legend (of Zelda) = Link and Zelda's adventures.

After Sleeping Zelda was put to sleep, the prince made a law that all the females of his line would be called Zelda. All the females of his line are related to Sleeping Zelda as Sleeping and Zelda and the Prince were siblings. LoZ is part of the Royal bloodline strongly suggesting that she is related to the Prince. The fact that she is named Zelda is good as proof that she is. Hence it stands to reason that they are related. This is the clear intention of the game producers. It would be stupid to nitpick and try to deny this simply to make your theory work.

I was talking about the Links.

This might be a valid arguement if this were IGN Boards but here it doesn't hold. To say it's a plot hole is generally not accepted. No one will take you seriously if you base your arguements on parts of the canon being overlooked.

So you are saying that there isn't plot holes in Zelda games? But my point was: Is AoL's BS first anymore? Nope. Things can be changed or made unimportant.

[MikePetersSucks]

Oh it does, indirectly.

Then give us the damn quotes. Is that so hard?!

... How the **** can you say that, and then completely ignore Ganondorf's words?  Besides, the King lies, and admits that he doesn't know everything during the course of the game.

And you call HIM biased? Atleast he's relying on the good guy who upholds honesty and chivalry. The king never "lied" he just didn't reveal his own true nature. Withholding information and falsifying it are two different things. Besides, Ganon's nuts. He'll say anything if it can make him half-heartedly believe he's getting revenge on the person who sealed him.

Who are you to say that it can have ANY other meaning than what he says, without having ANY evidence for that OPINION? And what in your biased mind makes Ganondorf less reliable than the King?

Because Ganon's statement doesn't have to be literal, while "no connection" has no poetic meaning aside from it's literal counterpart. And YOUR OPINION is just as biased as his. Get off your high horse.

Heh. You misunderstand my point. I only quoted that for evidence that the King was searching for the HoT.

He was searching for ANY hero! The Hero of Time is just the preferred outcome. Seriously, the Goddesses know that the Hero of Time is dead and gone.

Coupled with the other quote it says that the gods told the King to look for the HoT. Don't try to change facts. And where did Miymaoto say that? Meh... It doesn't matter, the game proves him wrong.

And that's why Link had to go through a tower of ordeals to manually change his destiny....right? and the Deku Tree totally knows the full intentions of the Goddesses in and out, right? Right.

The Legend (of Zelda) = Link and Zelda's adventures.

Link and Zelda's adventures=spanning across multiple lifetimes of multiple individuals.

I was talking about the Links.

Indeed, and just as there's no evidence of the Links being related, there's no evidence supporting any kind of reincarnation. That was an idea made up by a fanfiction writer to make the Legend of Zelda even more poetic and satisfying, but then it somehow got integrated into fact somehow. I think it was the Book of Mudora, but I can't be sure.

So you are saying that there isn't plot holes in Zelda games? But my point was: Is AoL's BS first anymore? Nope. Things can be changed or made unimportant.

The placement of AOL's Backstory is unimportant. What is important is that this board exists to patch up plotholes. If your first reaction to a plot hole is to call it a plot hole and dismiss it, you don't belong here and CERTAINLY shouldn't be trying to force your bullshit theories into people's laps.

[mohammedali]

Oh it does, indirectly.

What is it with you n00bs claiming to have plenty of 'proof' but never showing any. Sort it out.

... How the **** can you say that, and then completely ignore Ganondorf's words? <_< Besides, the King lies, and admits that he doesn't know everything during the course of the game.

WTF? Firstly, I didn't ignore Ganon's quotes, I said one quote was ambiguous. Secondly, you're comparing the Kings word to Ganons. Do you realise how stupid that is?

Who are you to say that it can have ANY other meaning than what he says, without having ANY evidence for that OPINION? And what in your biased mind makes Ganondorf less reliable than the King?

He says he's the 'hero reborn'. That could mean a whole host of things because reborn means a whole host of things. This is a fact, not an opinion.
As for Ganon being less reliable that the King, the fact that he swore an alliance to Hyrule and then attacked shortly after just shows how reliable he is. Also the fact that he is the villain in the series and the King is a nobleman should also be a dead giveaway.

Heh. You misunderstand my point. I only quoted that for evidence that the King was searching for the HoT.

Reread the quotes. It doesn't say anything about the King looking specifically for the HoT.

Coupled with the other quote it says that the gods told the King to look for the HoT. Don't try to change facts. And where did Miymaoto say that? Meh... It doesn't matter, the game proves him wrong.

It doesn't say the gods told the King to look for the HoT. Stop making stuff up. Don't try to make up facts. The game doesn't prove Miyamoto wrong at all.

The Legend (of Zelda) = Link and Zelda's adventures.

But it doesn't say Legend of Zelda. It's not proof of reincarnation by any means.

I was talking about the Links.

There's no indication that this is the case, and the fact that WW shows a Link with 'no connection' to another Link disproves this theory.

So you are saying that there isn't plot holes in Zelda games? But my point was: Is AoL's BS first anymore? Nope. Things can be changed or made unimportant.

Read some of the previous threads on this topic. You'll find there is justification for it being the first and for it not being the first. Both are theories. Neither are 'proven' so to speak. I'm not going into this part any further on this thread. Do some research on this first if you want to talk about Sleeping Zelda.

Mohammed Ali

[SOAP]

He says he's the 'hero reborn'. That could mean a whole host of things because reborn means a whole host of things. This is a fact, not an opinion.

Yes, "reborn" can mean different things in different context but usually judging by the context it's easy enough to determine which meaning it means. Ganon seemed a little more than pleased to meet Link ontop of the tower. Personally, I don't think he'd be as excited to see some schmoe who just happened to be simmilar to the guy who locked him away hundreds of years ago. As for whether Ganon is reliable or not, he's the only living person still alive who actually met the Hero of Time in person. There's no proof King Daphnes even lived in that time period as the Hero of Time and even if he was the same King from OoT, that King never met Link in person either so how would he know if Link didn't have some secret lovechild that carried on his bloodline or that his sould was reincarnted as TWW Link? And haven't we've been over this before.

Also, the word "connection" has just as many meanings, if not moreso, as "reborn" even in the context of KORL's dialogue. Jabun mistakes TWW Link as the Hero of Time. He seems to think OoT Link traveled through time like he did before. KORL was simply correcting him by saying that he's not the same person since he knew Link was born and raised on Outset Island and not a lost traveler from the past. This doesn't mean that the two Links don't share a common blood or spiritual bond. No one would be able to tell that anyways except someone who knows OoT Link... Hmmm.

[Hero of Legend]

Very well said, SOAP.

Then give us the damn quotes. Is that so hard?!

Yes. I didn't have time to type them up. Anyway, here they are.

1. Ganondorf: "Yes, surely you are the Hero of Time, reborn..."

Not much to say here.

2. Gohdan: "Oh chosen one... What will now happen is tied to fate."

This doesn't mean much by itself. But it proves that Link was the Hero chosen by the gods. And that affects other things...

3. The Deku Tree: We have been over this...

4: DNH: "Oh! What is this? There, on your hand--the Triforce piece now dwells within you! It is the Triforce of Courage--proof that you are indeed the true hero."

This proves that the King didn't know for sure what he was talking about when they met Jabun. Also notice that he says "the true hero" instead of "a true hero".

5. Ganondorf: "It can only be called fate. ...That here, I would again gather the
three with the crests."

I have had mixed reactions on this one (I am confident that you will object), but it can really only mean two things. Either he says that he has gathered three persons with the Triforce crests, or he says that he has gathered the SAME persons with the crests.

First, remember what he said in OoT: "The two Triforce parts that I could not capture on that day seven years ago... I didn't expect they would be hidden within you two! And now, finally, all the Triforce parts have gathered here!"

Now, due to the fact that Ganondorf is the same guy, and that he says that Link is the HoT reborn, it seems more likely that the latter option is the correct one. But that can be argued...

And you call HIM biased? Atleast he's relying on the good guy who upholds honesty and chivalry. The king never "lied" he just didn't reveal his own true nature. Withholding information and falsifying it are two different things. Besides, Ganon's nuts. He'll say anything if it can make him half-heartedly believe he's getting revenge on the person who sealed him.

Good or evil has nothing to do with it. The villain is often responsible for important plot revelations. And the King lies a lot more than Ganondorf does in TWW... The King even tries to change fate. What a fool.

Because Ganon's statement doesn't have to be literal, while "no connection" has no poetic meaning aside from it's literal counterpart. And YOUR OPINION is just as biased as his. Get off your high horse.

"No connection" could mean multiple things, so don't say anything about that.

He was searching for ANY hero! The Hero of Time is just the preferred outcome. Seriously, the Goddesses know that the Hero of Time is dead and gone.

No. He was searching for the HoT. Don't try to change facts.

And that's why Link had to go through a tower of ordeals to manually change his destiny....right? and the Deku Tree totally knows the full intentions of the Goddesses in and out, right? Right.

1. Link never changed his destiny in TWW, he only proved himself.

2. Yes, the Deku Tree knows their intentions because the game says so.

Link and Zelda's adventures=spanning across multiple lifetimes of multiple individuals.

Correct. That proves me right.

Indeed, and just as there's no evidence of the Links being related, there's no evidence supporting any kind of reincarnation. That was an idea made up by a fanfiction writer to make the Legend of Zelda even more poetic and satisfying, but then it somehow got integrated into fact somehow. I think it was the Book of Mudora, but I can't be sure.

*Ahem* Reincarnation is a fact, and I believe that there is plenty of evidence that it happens to Link, Zelda and Ganon...

The placement of AOL's Backstory is unimportant. What is important is that this board exists to patch up plotholes. If your first reaction to a plot hole is to call it a plot hole and dismiss it, you don't belong here and CERTAINLY shouldn't be trying to force your bullshit theories into people's laps.

I could say the same thing to you. If you discover a plot hole, what do you do? Make up fanfiction to explain it? Bah... You accept it for a plot hole and excludes it from your theory. It is that simple. Or do you honestly believe that Nintendo cares about the details of LoZ and AoL?

What is it with you n00bs claiming to have plenty of 'proof' but never showing any. Sort it out.

What is it with you fools thinking that you are better than everybody else? Give me a reason not to believe that Link is reincarnated.

WTF? Firstly, I didn't ignore Ganon's quotes, I said one quote was ambiguous. Secondly, you're comparing the Kings word to Ganons. Do you realise how stupid that is?

1. You said that Ganondorf was ambiguous because the King said something else. Sorry, but that logic doesn't work. That is why you technically ignored Ganondorf.

2. No, I don't. Ganondorf is the all knowing guy in TWW. That is not arguable. On the other hand, the King is like Zelda in OoT, and as we know, her plans got screwed up. The King even admits that he doesn't know as much as Ganondorf by saying: "He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted... That is what you said, is it not, Ganondorf?"

He says he's the 'hero reborn'. That could mean a whole host of things because reborn means a whole host of things. This is a fact, not an opinion.

No. The only meaning of the word is that you are born again. You CAN twist it into something else, but that it fan fiction.

As for Ganon being less reliable that the King, the fact that he swore an alliance to Hyrule and then attacked shortly after just shows how reliable he is. Also the fact that he is the villain in the series and the King is a nobleman should also be a dead giveaway.

Ganondorf has never lied to Link. That is one thing I have noticed during the course of the series. And as I said, what makes a villain less credible than anyone else? Nothing. Ganondorf says this as the last plot twist before the end. If he lied the game would have said something.

Reread the quotes. It doesn't say anything about the King looking specifically for the HoT.

It is obvious that he does since that is what both the Deku Tree and Jabun thinks.

It doesn't say the gods told the King to look for the HoT. Stop making stuff up. Don't try to make up facts. The game doesn't prove Miyamoto wrong at all.

1. Yes it does.

2. The game makes it very clear that Link is chosen by the gods to fight Ganondorf. Even the MS proves this by only glowing while Link is holding it. And give me a link to that interview or stop talking about "not having proof".

But it doesn't say Legend of Zelda. It's not proof of reincarnation by any means.

Their adventures ARE the legend. There is nothing more to say about that.

Read some of the previous threads on this topic. You'll find there is justification for it being the first and for it not being the first. Both are theories. Neither are 'proven' so to speak. I'm not going into this part any further on this thread. Do some research on this first if you want to talk about Sleeping Zelda.

Hah. I have been watching this forum for several months before I joined. I know about your little "two Kings" theory. Well, fanfiction will avail you nothing. The only good placement for AoL's BS is right after ALttP. That is a fact.

[SOAP]

In all fairness, I do know what quote Ali is talking about. Even still, interviews can't be taken that seriously since [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of things often change before the game is released. Remember when TP was after TWW. With same celshaded graphics. Staring the same Link. Now it's the complete opposite.

[Hero of Legend]

In all fairness, I do know what quote Ali is talking about. Even still, interviews can't be taken that seriously since [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of things often change before the game is released. Remember when TP was after TWW. With same celshaded graphics. Staring the same Link. Now it's the complete opposite.

You don't know where he said it I suppose? I would like to look at the exact wording. From what I understand he simply said that TWW Link was a new Link. I mean, every Link have had some kind of reason to start their adventures, even thought it later turns out to be fate.

[coinilius]

Also, on the part of Ganon's 'Hero reborn' line vs the Kings' he has no connection' - the line from Ganon is said at a later point in the game, and no other information is given on the subject afterwards. Taking the games story in a straighforward manner, you could argue that it is the latest and fullest comment given on the situation, and thus the most accurate, since the game does not provide any conflict to this idea after it is proposed -the King revealed one thing, then Ganon revealed another, with Ganons being the final word the game has to say on the matter. If you wanted to look at it in that way, there is an internal narrative sense to taking Ganons word over the Kings on that matter.

[Showsni]

If you look at it completely literally (and pedantically), the king is totally wrong. For example, TWW Link and OoT Link are both young boys. There's a connection right there. they're both Hylian. They're both left handed. They are both able to swordfight well. Etc. By "no connection," then, the king wasn't being literal. There are many connections between them. So what did he mean? Merely that they're not exactly the same person, as the poeple in TWW backstory seemed to believe (i.e. taht the HoT could travel through time to wherever problems were)?

[MikePetersSucks]

2. Gohdan: "Oh chosen one... What will now happen is tied to fate."

This doesn't mean much by itself. But it proves that Link was the Hero chosen by the gods. And that affects other things...

Chosen by the Gods. Just like almost every other significant character in Zelda.

4: DNH: "Oh! What is this? There, on your hand--the Triforce piece now dwells within you! It is the Triforce of Courage--proof that you are indeed the true hero."

This proves that the King didn't know for sure what he was talking about when they met Jabun. Also notice that he says "the true hero" instead of "a true hero".

Since when was the Hero of Time the only one who could touch the Triforce of Courage?

5. Ganondorf: "It can only be called fate. ...That here, I would again gather the
three with the crests."

I have had mixed reactions on this one (I am confident that you will object), but it can really only mean two things. Either he says that he has gathered three persons with the Triforce crests, or he says that he has gathered the SAME persons with the crests.

He's probably just talking about the crests. If he believed Link was the Hero of Time's ressurection, he wouldn't hesitate to kill him, while he originally says "Relax, I will not kill you."

2. Yes, the Deku Tree knows their intentions because the game says so.

No it doesn't.

*Ahem* Reincarnation is a fact, and I believe that there is plenty of evidence that it happens to Link, Zelda and Ganon...

It is NOT a fact! Infact, no allusions to the afterlife of Hyrule is even alluded too and the term Reincarnation is never used.

Give me a reason not to believe that Link is reincarnated.

Impossible. Proving a negative cannot be done. Since you're making the positive claim (Reincarnation) YOU are the one with the burden of proof. You have not given me a single solid reason to believe in reincarnation in Hyrule. Infact, a couple of your quotes don't even have anything to do with the subject of reincarnation.

The King even admits that he doesn't know as much as Ganondorf by saying: "He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted... That is what you said, is it not, Ganondorf?"

Holy hell. That has to be the most misinterpretted quote I have ever seen.

No. The only meaning of the word is that you are born again. You CAN twist it into something else, but that it fan fiction.

(r-bôrn)
adj.
Emotionally or spiritually revived or regenerated.

adj : spiritually reborn or converted; "a born-again Christian"; "a converted sinner" [syn: born-again, converted]

2. The game makes it very clear that Link is chosen by the gods to fight Ganondorf. Even the MS proves this by only glowing while Link is holding it. And give me a link to that interview or stop talking about "not having proof".

Indeed. TWW Link was chosen by the Gods. Meaning that he didn't bear this destiny before. If he was the Hero of Time, he wouldn't of had to go through the Tower of the Gods. Also, if you're so sure that everyone thinks he's OOT Link's reincarnation, why do they start calling him the Hero of WINDS?

This works just fine at the moment as far as I can see, but I don't actually adhere to it, as I think it's plain that a future game will deal with Ganon having the Master Sword removed from his forehead and being revived that way.

That's actually a good idea. However, since only a true hero can take the Master Sword, it would introduce a wonderful twist. An innocent child pulls out the Master Sword, and this new Link has to repair the damage he's done by resealing/killing Ganondorf, and he becomes the Hero of Redemption

[Hero of Legend]

Chosen by the Gods. Just like almost every other significant character in Zelda.

No one except Link and Zelda are ever said to have been chosen by the gods. And it DOES help my theory.

Since when was the Hero of Time the only one who could touch the Triforce of Courage?

Since, ever? No other Link has absorbed it (except TWW Link). But it doesn't matter, the King only knows about the Hero of Time.

He's probably just talking about the crests. If he believed Link was the Hero of Time's ressurection, he wouldn't hesitate to kill him, while he originally says "Relax, I will not kill you."

As I said, both options are possible. But he actually says: "Do not fear. I will not kill you... I merely have need of the power that dwells within you." To me, this indicates that Ganondorf will turn his attention to Link once he has the Triforce. After all, Ganondorf doesn't hesitate during the final battle...

No it doesn't.

The Deku Tree is a character in the game, and since the game doesn't give us any other information, it is the truth.

It is NOT a fact! Infact, no allusions to the afterlife of Hyrule is even alluded too and the term Reincarnation is never used.

Learn your facts...

They say that the owl named Kaepora Gaebora is the reincarnation of an ancient Sage.

And I think that people return from death and talk about the afterlife are pretty obvious indications...

Impossible. Proving a negative cannot be done. Since you're making the positive claim (Reincarnation) YOU are the one with the burden of proof. You have not given me a single solid reason to believe in reincarnation in Hyrule. Infact, a couple of your quotes don't even have anything to do with the subject of reincarnation.

So, the fact that all Links are the "Hero" is a coincidence? You have to explain it in some way. And what part of "indirectly" is it that you fail to understand?

Holy hell. That has to be the most misinterpretted quote I have ever seen.

Ah yes, the King is indeed mocking Ganondorf by throwing his own words at him. However, the sentence has a deeper meaning to it. The King essentially comments on Ganondorf's master-plan. It was Ganondorf who assembled the Triforce, the King simply stole his wish. In that sense he admits that Ganondorf is greater than him.

But again it doesn't matter. The King proves his fallibility multiple times in the game. Ganondorf never makes a mistake until the end.

(r-bôrn)
adj.  
Emotionally or spiritually revived or regenerated.

adj : spiritually reborn or converted; "a born-again Christian"; "a converted sinner" [syn: born-again, converted]

So you are saying that Link converted into the HoT? You have to look at the contest in which the word is used as well. Ganondorf says that he has been waiting for the Hero, not some guy who converted into a "hero".

Indeed. TWW Link was chosen by the Gods. Meaning that he didn't bear this destiny before. If he was the Hero of Time, he wouldn't of had to go through the Tower of the Gods. Also, if you're so sure that everyone thinks he's OOT Link's reincarnation, why do they start calling him the Hero of WINDS?

That argument is laughable. He was obviously chosen before his birth. And wasn't this the case in OoT as well? (FYI, it was)

The HoT had to prove himself by gathering the Spiritual Stones and pulling the MS, so did ALttP Link (Who was the prophesised Legendary Hero). The reason that all the Links has to prove themselves is that the Goddesses can't leave the MS out in the open. What if someone unworthy found it? No, it must be protected by a force that only Link can bypass.

As for you last question:

The Master Sword is a sacred blade which evil ones may never touch... Only one worthy of the title of "Hero of Time" can pull it from the Pedestal of Time....

TWW Link never pulled the MS from the PoT, therefore he is not the HoT. Besides, Nintendo has to make a difference between the Links.

[MikePetersSucks]

No one except Link and Zelda are ever said to have been chosen by the gods. And it DOES help my theory.

...The Sages...

As I said, both options are possible. But he actually says: "Do not fear. I will not kill you... I merely have need of the power that dwells within you." To me, this indicates that Ganondorf will turn his attention to Link once he has the Triforce. After all, Ganondorf doesn't hesitate during the final battle...

Because he lost the Triforce and is pretty pissed? I'm sure that if he got the Triforce he would throw the kids in a dungeon or something.

The Deku Tree is a character in the game, and since the game doesn't give us any other information, it is the truth.

The Deku Tree is falliable and (kinda) mortal, and is thusly capable of being wrong

They say that the owl named Kaepora Gaebora is the reincarnation of an ancient Sage.
 


And I think that people return from death and talk about the afterlife are pretty obvious indications...

They say, as in, a rumor. Doesn't mean it's true, but the possibility exists.

So, the fact that all Links are the "Hero" is a coincidence?  You have to explain it in some way. And what part of "indirectly" is it that you fail to understand?

Because they were all chosen. Wow. Every Princess is named Zelda! OMG reincarnation! Oh wait...people are capable of sharing names. K.

Ah yes, the King is indeed mocking Ganondorf by throwing his own words at him. However, the sentence has a deeper meaning to it. The King essentially comments on Ganondorf's master-plan. It was Ganondorf who assembled the Triforce, the King simply stole his wish. In that sense he admits that Ganondorf is greater than him.  

But again it doesn't matter. The King proves his fallibility multiple times in the game. Ganondorf never makes a mistake until the end.

Heh, if anything the King proves he's superior by being able to make a wish on the Triforce, while Ganondorf was the one who caused it to split. And holy hell, mistakes? Let's see...

Getting all the wrong girls like...five times and thusly giving the hero incentive to hunt him.

Sparing Link's life like, thrice.

Stalling to take the Triforce.

I could go on.

So you are saying that Link converted into the HoT? You have to look at the contest in which the word is used as well. Ganondorf says that he has been waiting for the Hero, not some guy who converted into a "hero".

The context isn't important, and i'm not saying anything about the storyline. You said "Reborn" had no other meanings. I proved that it did. If you can't even be right in such a trivial aspect, how the hell can you honestly act like you know everything in storyline?

That argument is laughable. He was obviously chosen before his birth. And wasn't this the case in OoT as well? (FYI, it was)  

The HoT had to prove himself by gathering the Spiritual Stones and pulling the MS, so did ALttP Link (Who was the prophesised Legendary Hero). The reason that all the Links has to prove themselves is that the Goddesses can't leave the MS out in the open. What if someone unworthy found it? No, it must be protected by a force that only Link can bypass.

No one said that TWW Link was chosen at birth. Infact, I saw an interview that said something along the lines of TWW Link being a child who fell into this role entirely on his own. And it doesn't MATTER if anyone unworthy found the Master Sword. Only the worthy can even TOUCH IT!

OOT was a new soul who proved himself worthy
TWW was a new soul who proved himself worthy
LTTP may or may not have been a new soul, but it seems implied that this isn't the true Master Sword (Beams, different color scheme, that kinda shit.)

TWW Link never pulled the MS from the PoT, therefore he is not the HoT. Besides, Nintendo has to make a difference between the Links.

You're right. They do. This is why they're seperate people. And yet earlier, you said that TWW Link is the Hero of Time. Make up your mind. If TWW Link is a reincarnation of the Hero of Time, then HE IS the Hero of Time. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[Hero of Slime]

They say, as in, a rumor. Doesn't mean it's true, but the possibility exists.

The rumors in Zelda games are always true.

[Hero of Legend]

...The Sages...

Nope. They are never SAID to have been chosen by the gods. That is your fan fiction.

Because he lost the Triforce and is pretty pissed? I'm sure that if he got the Triforce he would throw the kids in a dungeon or something.

What about when Ganondorf tried to kill Link on the Forsaken Fortress (twice)? Or when he sent two Black Darknuts at him and said "And here, you shall fall into eternal slumber!"? ... Ganondorf clearly wanted to kill Link.

The Deku Tree is falliable and (kinda) mortal, and is thusly capable of being wrong  

But why should we believe that he is wrong when the game doesn't give us any reason to do so?

They say, as in, a rumor. Doesn't mean it's true, but the possibility exists.

Try again. That was a gossip stone. Everything they say is fact.

Because they were all chosen. Wow. Every Princess is named Zelda! OMG reincarnation! Oh wait...people are capable of sharing names. K.

Well, that is one explanation. But I think it is simpler to re-use the same Hero instead of bothering with several ones.

Heh, if anything the King proves he's superior by being able to make a wish on the Triforce, while Ganondorf was the one who caused it to split. And holy hell, mistakes? Let's see...

First, Ganondorf had just reassembled the Triforce. That makes ANYONE able to wish with it. The King might have been unbalanced.

Getting all the wrong girls like...five times and thusly giving the hero incentive to hunt him.

He has only kidnapped Zelda four times... And it turned out to help him in TWW, ALttP and OoT, didn't it? (or that was his plan anyway)

Sparing Link's life like, thrice.

Once in OoT, when Link opened the SR for him. And once in TWW when Ganondorf thought that he had won. I don't remember a third time.

Stalling to take the Triforce.

Come on. Could Ganondorf have expected that the King would teleport and take it?

And besides, we are talking about TWW. Ganondorf doesn't make ANY mistakes in that game.

The context isn't important, and i'm not saying anything about the storyline. You said "Reborn" had no other meanings. I proved that it did. If you can't even be right in such a trivial aspect, how the hell can you honestly act like you know everything in storyline?

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about it's meaning in the game.

No one said that TWW Link was chosen at birth. Infact, I saw an interview that said something along the lines of TWW Link being a child who fell into this role entirely on his own.

He was chosen before he did anything, just like OoT Link was “a child of destiny”. The ultimate proof for this is that the King found him in the first place. And I gave proof that the interview doesn't mean anything to this debate.

And it doesn't MATTER if anyone unworthy found the Master Sword. Only the worthy can even TOUCH IT!

It is amusing to see your faulty arguments.

The only people who can't touch the MS are evil ones. Normal people can still do it. What makes Link different is that the MS only shines with the power to repel evil when Link holds it. We have proof of this in ALttP: "That radiance is all your power." We also see it in TWW when the MS doesn't emit light while Zelda is holding it.

So, what if Bob dropped the MS down the Death Mountain crater? Not so good... The Goddesses need to make sure that only Link gets it.

OOT was a new soul who proved himself worthy
TWW was a new soul who proved himself worthy
LTTP may or may not have been a new soul, but it seems implied that this isn't the true Master Sword (Beams, different color scheme, that kinda shit.)

1. That isn't a fact. In reality, that they are both chosen since birth makes your argument less valid.

2. There is a bigger difference between the MS in OoT and TWW.

You're right. They do. This is why they're seperate people. And yet earlier, you said that TWW Link is the Hero of Time. Make up your mind. If TWW Link is a reincarnation of the Hero of Time, then HE IS the Hero of Time. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

The HoT is not a person, it is a title that you only can gain if you pull the MS from the PoT. Therefore, you can be the reincarnation of the last HoT without being the HoT. Understood?

[MikePetersSucks]

Nope. They are never SAID to have been chosen by the gods. That is your fan fiction.

Oh, but they were. "The Awakening Voice of the Sacred Realm?" And some other stuff. But hey, It's never SAID that Link and Zelda are reincarnated. That is YOUR fanfiction. Dumbass.

What about when Ganondorf tried to kill Link on the Forsaken Fortress (twice)? Or when he sent two Black Darknuts at him and said "And here, you shall fall into eternal slumber!"? ... Ganondorf clearly wanted to kill Link.

I guess so. But you can't deny that ontop of his tower, he did blatantly say he was going to spare Link. He might've been lying, but who knows? I don't pretend to know Ganon's thoughts.

But why should we believe that he is wrong when the game doesn't give us any reason to do so?

Why should we believe Link and Zelda are reincarnated if the games give us no reason to do so?

Try again. That was a gossip stone. Everything they say is fact.

Says WHO? Tetra communicated with Link through a Gossip Stone. Does that make every word out of her mouth fact? The Gossip Stones have to get their information from somewhere.

Well, that is one explanation. But I think it is simpler to re-use the same Hero instead of bothering with several ones.

Well I think it's simpler to keep the subject of reincarnation out of a children's video game and just say they're related like the ZELDAS are.

First, Ganondorf had just reassembled the Triforce. That makes ANYONE able to wish with it. The King might have been unbalanced.

No it doesn't. The Triforce is only described to hold for people who are balance. When the Triforce is reassembled, it gives him another chance to take it. If he's still not balanced, it breaks again. There is no evidence to tell otherwise, and it makes the seperation of the Triforce redundant if the same person who split it can just take it again. That is YOUR fanfiction.

He has only kidnapped Zelda four times... And it turned out to help him in TWW, ALttP and OoT, didn't it? (or that was his plan anyway)

How did it help him in TWW? All the girls he captured were useless to him when he wanted ZELDA. Seems like a mistake to me. Oh, let's not forget that if Aryll was never kidnapped, the Hero of Winds would've never rose up to challenge him.

Once in OoT, when Link opened the SR for him. And once in TWW when Ganondorf thought that he had won. I don't remember a third time.

Throwing him into the sea at the Forbidden Fortress instead of letting the bird eat him, Just dropping him when the Triforce emerged, and like you said, when Link opened the Sacred Realm.

Come on. Could Ganondorf have expected that the King would teleport and take it?

And besides, we are talking about TWW. Ganondorf doesn't make ANY mistakes in that game.

That doesn't make it any less of a mistake. See above. Ganondorf made his fair share of mistakes. Most villains do, and Ganon is only human (kinda...). He's falliable just like every other character.

I thought it was obvious that I was talking about it's meaning in the game.

But you didn't say that. You just said had Reborn had no other meaning. You need to clarify stuff like that or your arguments are flawed at the period of conception.

He was chosen before he did anything, just like OoT Link was “a child of destiny”. The ultimate proof for this is that the King found him in the first place. And I gave proof that the interview doesn't mean anything to this debate.

How is THAT proof of being chosen at birth. So the King found him. Big whoop. Ever heard the phrase "At the right place at the right time?" It's a Deus Ex Machina that happens all the time in fiction in order to keep the plot moving. How do we know Link didn't just land right next to the King or something? Also, I don't think that interview was even mentioned before I said so. Or atleast I never mentioned it.

It is amusing to see your faulty arguments.

The only people who can't touch the MS are evil ones. Normal people can still do it. What makes Link different is that the MS only shines with the power to repel evil when Link holds it. We have proof of this in ALttP: "That radiance is all your power." We also see it in TWW when the MS doesn't emit light while Zelda is holding it.

So, what if Bob dropped the MS down the Death Mountain crater? Not so good... The Goddesses need to make sure that only Link gets it.

It's so amusing to watch your false arrogance like some kind of french poodle in a crowd of dobermans

And yea, the sword kinda shines in Zelda's hands. See that little white aura? Still there. Either way, there is evidence suggesting that only a true Hero can weild it. Dur. If the seal on the sword means anything, it's probably to test the hero to make him a true hero to begin with. If Link was just able to go to the Master Sword and pull it out without gathering the Spiritual Stones or whatever, then a big portion of his quest is redundant and he's not much of a hero at the time of claiming the sword.

1. That isn't a fact. In reality, that they are both chosen since birth makes your argument less valid.

2. There is a bigger difference between the MS in OoT and TWW.

1. Says who? Who the hell says they're being chosen at birth? (Besides OOT Link and LTTP Link, I admit. But they had in-game prophecies predicting their arrival. TWW had no such prophecy.)

2. No, not really. I'm only seeing the gameplay mechanics of time travel and awakening the TWW Sages. The completed Master Sword plays exactly the same in both games, but in LTTP, you can shoot lasers with it at full health.

The HoT is not a person, it is a title that you only can gain if you pull the MS from the PoT. Therefore, you can be the reincarnation of the last HoT without being the HoT. Understood?

Link is the Hero of Time. It's not a title that can be gained multiple times. They imply that it's a one time deal. A sort of messianic role (Which seems to deify OOT Link in TWW, and no other Link was revered in such a manner.) And there's still that whole basics of Reincarnation thing. It's common in Buddhism, Taoism, and I'm sure almost every religion featuring reincarnation. I'm sure the role of the Hero of Time leaves a karma mark that can never be erased. Just like how once you're a Dali Lama, you remain a Dali Lama in all your lives.

[MikePetersSucks]

ToPless

You=King on the INTERNET!!!111

Tetra's pendant's different than a true Gossip Stone.

This is true, but they are GOSSIP Stones. I've always thought that they just record rumors that they hear and play them back to whoever touches the sword.

No, that's not right. The Triforce breaks the first time an unbalanced person touches it. If they want it to work they have to then gather the Triforce pieces together. Then it will work for them. There's a slew of game text stating this.

Otherwise why would Ganondorf waste his time putting it together again?

Can you get me this game text please? Also, wouldn't this solve the problem about Ganon having the full Triforce in LTTP? OOoooh...

But yea, regardless, the King never touched the Triforce, so I think it should split if his heart isn't balanced since he isn't the one who assembled the Triforce. Plus all the Kings of Hyrule happen to be balanced, I've noticed. (Well, except the prince from Sleeping Zelda)

It probably didn't seem necessary, at that point, to order the bird to actually eat him and show evidence of his death. He couldn't suspect the ancient King of Hyrule would end up rescuing him in boat form. He wasn't a big deal. As for dropping him--well, whatever.

Regardless, he should've killed him when he had the chance, we can all agree in retrospect. Thusly, Ganondorf made a mistake.

[Showsni]

Can you get me this game text please? Also, wouldn't this solve the problem about Ganon having the full Triforce in LTTP? OOoooh...

It tells you this in OoT:

If the heart of the one who holds
the sacred triangle has all three
forces in balance, that one will
gain the True Force to govern all.
But, if that one's heart is not in
balance, the Triforce will separate
into three parts:
Power, Wisdom and Courage.
Only one part will remain for the
one who touched the Triforce...the
part representing the force that
one most believes in.
If that one seeks the True Force,
that one must acquire the two
lost parts.
Those two parts will be held
within others chosen by destiny,
who will bear the Triforce mark
on the backs of their hands.

It probably also tells you in TWW, but there's no text dump. In both OoT and TWW this is what Ganon is trying to do - acquire the ToC and ToW.

[Fatgoron]

Well, it didn't really matter, did it?  He'd already taken Link down.  Sure, there was that whole thing after the King's wish, but Ganon was ToPless (heh) and Link and Zelda were protected by the Triforce wish.  In any case, he would've drowned anyway.

That's assuming you believe he didn't have it at the end.
(white-man make-um bad puns, me go scalp him[/racisthumor])

[mohammedali]

1. You said that Ganondorf was ambiguous because the King said something else. Sorry, but that logic doesn't work. That is why you technically ignored Ganondorf.

No. I said Ganon was ambiguous full stop. That's not what I call ignoring Ganondorf.

2. No, I don't. Ganondorf is the all knowing guy in TWW. That is not arguable. On the other hand, the King is like Zelda in OoT, and as we know, her plans got screwed up. The King even admits that he doesn't know as much as Ganondorf by saying: "He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted... That is what you said, is it not, Ganondorf?"

There's no reason why Ganon should be all knowing. He doesn't have the ToW or anything. The King seems to know much more about the goings on in Hyrule etc.

No. The only meaning of the word is that you are born again. You CAN twist it into something else, but that it fan fiction.

There is more than one meaning of the word reborn. Unless the creator told you he meant reincarnation, there's no reason why the definition you use is better than the definition I use. In fact, knowing that the King said no connection would outrule reincarnation so it would have to be another meaning. If there is any fanfiction here, it's with your definition.

Ganondorf has never lied to Link. That is one thing I have noticed during the course of the series. And as I said, what makes a villain less credible than anyone else? Nothing. Ganondorf says this as the last plot twist before the end. If he lied the game would have said something.

Lying or not, the point is that reborn is ambiguous. It's by no measure concrete that Link is reincarnated, and it's not possible that Zelda is reincarnated. The idea doesn't seem to work.

1. Yes it does.

2. The game makes it very clear that Link is chosen by the gods to fight Ganondorf. Even the MS proves this by only glowing while Link is holding it. And give me a link to that interview or stop talking about "not having proof".

Where does it say the King was told to look for the HoT in particular?

Their adventures ARE the legend. There is nothing more to say about that.

You saying that doesn't make it true. If you're looking for proof, that's not it. Link being reincarnated is never suggested in the games. The only arguement against this is the reborn quote, but given it's ambiguity and the Kings no connection quote, it doesn't seem to hold.

Dosen't he say something more along the lines of "Surely, you must be the hero reborn.", because he seems to be somewhat similar to the original?  Ganondorf is simply making a comment on this, not diving that he is in fact the hero reborn.

That's how I see it as well.

I always had a problem with this "no connection" thing.  Isn't the family shield supposed to have once belonged to the Hero?  I guess they could somehow ended up with it, but the implication seems to be that the HoT was in their family.

What's interesting about the shield is 1. It was owned by the hero - though it doesn't say it's the Hero of Time... and 2. It looks nothing like any shield we see in OoT, but it looks exactly the same as the shield the Hero has in TMC. That's why I take TMC, FS, FSA and WW Links all to be of the same bloodline. This would make sence as they all have a connection to the wind (with the whole Vaati being a wind sage and all). The rest of the games I take to be part of the Hero of Time bloodline.

Mohammed Ali