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The Wind Waker is last?


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#31 Mordaunt

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 05:18 PM

How did Ganondorf return in FSA?

#32 Guest_.Hero_Of_Time._*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 06:54 PM

How did Ganondorf return in FSA?


He was re-born. Thats what Zelda said.

#33 Mordaunt

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 07:45 PM

...thats it? Thats the only explaination?

Could the Ganon in FSA be the Ganon (err, Ganondorf) in TWW?

#34 Guest_.Hero_Of_Time._*

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 10:42 PM

...thats it? Thats the only explaination?

Could the Ganon in FSA be the Ganon (err, Ganondorf) in TWW?


Thats most of it. Ganondorf is re-born. He takes the trident and is fused with his old soul. Thats about it. So in a way, he is the same and he is different.

#35 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 11:03 PM

However, Mordaunt...it's still not certain where to place the FS series, so it's not certain if it's after TWW.

#36 Showsni

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 06:59 AM

Ganondorf's a mystery. In FSA, he's a Gerudo thief who seems to gain the power of an ancient evil reborn. Is it the same Ganon in every game? Perhaps he keeps getting resurrected, but has chronic amnesia.

#37 Mordaunt

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 07:00 PM

Or maybe he is just bottled up and doesnt want to talk about his feelings with his moblin friends...

...they are always there for him though. He needs to open up.

"Its alright to cry, Ganon, we all do sometime in our lives."

#38 Koji

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 03:39 AM

Ganondorf is significantly more awesome of a villain than Vaati. At least I never mistook Ganondorf's laugh for a woman's - Vaati on the other hand... And besides - Vaati had to put on a hat to become all powerful - ooh...real scary. Ganondorf used his cunning and already existing power to take hold of an even GREATER power. Yay for Ganondorf.

As far as games after TWW go - I say it could be any game with none of the same names as the previous ones. Although, I personally put it last. Why couldn't they just make the Zelda series easy to plot? "Which order do they occur in?" "Well...which order did they come out in?"

#39 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 04:30 PM

Vaati's laugh is awesome. Besides, Vaati has more merit in that he managed to match Ganondorf's power with a weaker source of magic. Not to mention Ganondorf, even with the power of the Gods, is defeated by a single boy, while Vaati needs to be taken down by the joint effort of four children.

#40 Fatgoron

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 05:19 PM

Where's that interview showing the creators intended Ganon to be more powerful than Vaati when you need it?

#41 SOAP

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 05:55 PM

This isn't the first time this idea has been suggested here. *coughs and poinst at self*

Anyways, personally, I still think TWW is last. I mean, Ganon's death seems pretty in TWW. Yeah sure, he's died before (LoZ, ALttP, OoX) but in those cases he can always be revived, as stated in AoL and OoX. Also, in those cases, he was buried by billions of gallons of sea water with the Master Sword stuck in his head. And if the Deku Tree's prediction comes true, he'd be buried billions of pounds of earth as well. Nope, he's gone alright.

Also, I don't think the land Link and Tetra find is going to be the New Hyrule. The KIng saying that that land "Will not be Hyrule" seems to suggest Nintendo has other plans instore.

#42 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 09:53 PM

Anyways, personally, I still think TWW is last. I mean, Ganon's death seems pretty in TWW. Yeah sure, he's died before (LoZ, ALttP, OoX) but in those cases he can always be revived, as stated in AoL and OoX. Also, in those cases, he was buried by billions of gallons of sea water with the Master Sword stuck in his head. And if the Deku Tree's prediction comes true, he'd be buried billions of pounds of earth as well. Nope, he's gone alright.


http://arago4.tn.utw...ail/ra/04-06.ra

#43 Mad Scrub

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by Crazy Penguin
http://arago4.tn.utw...ail/ra/04-06.ra

What kind of file is that?

#44 SOAP

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 12:14 AM

One that plays in Real Player. I'm guess that' clip was from Monty Python though I don't get what point you were trying to make, CP.

#45 Hero of Slime

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 12:14 AM

TWW can be last in a single timeline if you believe that TWW's back story about the time traveling hero is not OoT but a later event that occured after all the other games.

(OoT)-(other games)-(TWW BS)-(TWW)

#46 Koji

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 04:02 AM

But see, with Vaati - it was four heroes, but it really could've been four of ANYBODY. Link didn't show up just to kill Vaati, Vaati just decided to take over the world at a bad time. Ganon's appearance, however, fulfills prophecies, makes Hero's appear because of destiny - etc. etc. So Ganon get defeated by one kickass little boy (as he realizes in TWW). I say that if pitted against each other - Ganon would win. What do I have to back it up? I ask you this - who was the final boss in FSA? That's right.

#47 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 07:49 AM

I don't get what point you were trying to make, CP.


Ganon's had worse.

#48 Koji

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 03:12 PM

lol! Just based on the words "Monty Python" and "Ganon's had worse" I know EXACTLY what clip that was. I'm inclined to agree with you, CP. Ganon's exploded, been reduced to ashes, sealed in a realm (A REALM!), and now stabbed in the head and buried by millions of gallons of water and (possibly) hundreds and thousands of yards of newly developed land. I'm not wondering *if* he'll get out. I'm wondering *when*. (But he's gonna need some advil for that splitting headache *giggle*)

#49 SOAP

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 01:15 AM

TWW can be last in a single timeline if you believe that TWW's back story about the time traveling hero is not OoT but a later event that occured after all the other games.

(OoT)-(other games)-(TWW BS)-(TWW)


Or throw all you know about the timeline out the window and and just accept OoT doesn't neccessarily have to be first first.

(Other Games) - (OoT) - (TP) - (TWWW BS) - (TWW)

#50 Hero of Slime

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Posted 22 September 2005 - 09:43 PM

(Other Games) - (OoT) - (TP) - (TWWW BS) - (TWW)

If thats the case then why not just say that OoT is TWW's BS?

#51 mohammedali

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Posted 23 September 2005 - 07:08 AM

Or throw all you know about the timeline out the window and and just accept OoT doesn't neccessarily have to be first first.

(Other Games) - (OoT) - (TP) - (TWWW BS) - (TWW)

But then OoT can't be aLttP BS either. Why would you want to do that? Why? *sniff*

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#52 Hero of Legend

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 03:24 PM

Why would TWW be last? There is absolutely no solid proof for it.

Let's see...

"Ganondorf was stabbed in the head, turned into stone and died!"

First, we don't know if he died. He was stabbed in OoT as well, but that didn't stop him. He also spoke AFTER the Link stuck the MS in his forehead. And technically he didn't turn to stone either. He was encased in it.

Second, Ganondorf was REBORN (meaning that his soul returned from death and manifested itself in a new body) in FSA. That makes this entire argument a moot point.

Besides, it's not like he has never been killed before...

"Hyrule was flooded by the King!"

It is a fact that there are multiple Hyrules. OoT says that the world is named Hyrule, and AoL speaks about a time when "Hyrule was one country". If Link and Zelda names the new land "Hyrule" it would be a Hyrule as well.

"But the King said that it would not be Hyrule!"

No. He said that it would not be HIS Hyrule.

Not a day of my life has gone by without my thoughts turning to my kingdom of old. I have lived bound to Hyrule.



The new land could still be Hyrule, but it would not be the SAME Hyrule, which is what the King cares about.

That was everything, right? Heh. I think TWW works fine right in the middle of my timeline…

But what is this stuff about OoT being after ALttP? :deadlink:

#53 Chaltab

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Posted 25 September 2005 - 09:45 PM

But what is this stuff about OoT being after ALttP?


That one is a bit ridiculous. Ocarina was clearly intended as a prequel to ALttP.

#54 Showsni

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 07:05 AM

But it is less contradictory to canon if we say OoT isn't the IW. They are ways you can reduce the contradictions, and have OoT as the IW, but they're a little complex. Fewer contradictions, and fewer complications, makes a better timeline, IMO.

What you say about the name Hyrule is interesting, HoL... LoZ is set in an unamed kingdom within the greater land of Hyrule. AoL is set in this whole greater land, which was once all ruled by a king, as one kingdom. ALttP, TMC, (FS and FSA?) and OoT are set in kingdoms called Hyrule. TWW is set in an ocean above Hyrule kingdom, from OoT.

#55 Fyxe

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 08:15 AM

I find it more ludicrous to suggest there is an Imprisoning War that is somehow seperate to the events of OoT. That has a shedload of contradictions in itself, such as Ganon accidentally discovering the Golden Land twice, because sealed by Seven Sages twice, etc.

#56 Showsni

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 08:49 AM

How do we know it's the same Ganon? Even if it's a reincarnation, he wouldn't keep his memories as shown by Link. And you mean sealed by seven sages three times - FSA. And his discovery in OoT is hardly an accident. He's actively working to get to the SR.

#57 Chaltab

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 09:13 PM

How do we know it's the same Ganon? Even if it's a reincarnation, he wouldn't keep his memories as shown by Link. And you mean sealed by seven sages three times - FSA. And his discovery in OoT is hardly an accident. He's actively working to get to the SR.


But Link isn't a reincarnation, just a new child with the same destiny.

#58 SOAP

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Posted 02 October 2005 - 10:52 PM

I find it more ludicrous to suggest there is an Imprisoning War that is somehow seperate to the events of OoT. That has a shedload of contradictions in itself, such as Ganon accidentally discovering the Golden Land twice, because sealed by Seven Sages twice, etc.


Uh no. At least not if you go by a split timeline, which is the only way to have TWW and ALttP continue off the same game anyways. Depending on how far back Link was sent back in time, any "second" attempts of Ganon's to into the Sacred Realm would actually have been the first time as far as everyone else is concerned as the first time would have never happened. Which begs the question why tie with OoT at all? Why not have the IW simply as event that happens before ALttP, like how the great flood was to TWW and the Hero of man story is to TMC?

Also, what's the "accidentially" busincess? I thought the phrase was that he "unexpectedly stumbled upon the Sacred Realm." In othr words, no one saw it coming, except maybe Ganon himself. In either case, what happened in OoT was by no means an accident on Ganon's part. He seemed to know what he was doing since Day 1.

#59 Hero of Legend

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 04:03 AM

But Link isn't a reincarnation, just a new child with the same destiny.


He most certainly is a reincarnation. The series have actively hinted at it since OoT. TWW proves it. Hell, even TMC proves it. Why do people ignore this fact...?

#60 Showsni

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Posted 03 October 2005 - 01:01 PM

I'd say that any game where we play as Link shows the legendary hero of legend, who is destined to appear when evil does.




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