98 replies to this topic

[Zythe]

I think the Sacred Realm was turned into the Dark World after Ganon touched the Triforce in OoT, since his wish was surely to conquer the world the Dark World became his own Hyrule, then, he built an army in the Dark World and used it to conquer Hyrule in OoT. As you know, when Ganon died in ALttP the Dark World was destroyed, since we never see him die before ALttP (according to the most accepted single timeline theory) we can asume that the Sacred Realm remained as the Dark Word from OoT to ALttP.

Now, as davogones says, maybe the Triforce doesn't fulfill the wishes automatically, it just gives the person means to fulfill it. In this case, the Sacred Realm was turned into a paralell version of Hyrule so Ganon could build up power to attack the light world then, as one of the maidens explains Link.

My theory on the subject, percisely.

Now back on the OOT/LTTP split-up debate...

[Zythe]

The power, of the entire Triforce is unlimited, thus you can actively do whatever the hell you want with it. The only reason it split in TWW is because that was part of Nohansen's wish for hope, splitting the Triforce was all just a part of the wish.

[Zythe]

Wish ... controll over all ... there is nothing to say there is only one wish.

[Zythe]

Well, there were many wishes before that point, which all counter-react. Like the wish for hope, which I beleive created the Great Cataclysm, and when the original Sages did construct a very powerful seal, if Ganon didn't take that into account when using the Triforce to take over Hyrule the 'spell' made the Sacred Realm into a copy of Hyrule.

Or maybe Ganon wanted the Dark World to be his, so he could make a protected army to attack Hyrule and Link and co. because of the special weapons that can overtake the Triforce like the Mirror Shield, Master Sword, Golden Sword and Magical Sword.

Things like that. Remember, that Ganon had the Triforce in his pyramid still.

[Zythe]

It was sent back to the Sacred Realm by default, I think, at the end of TWW - if you consider the beggining of Oracles to be in the sacred realm castle.

[Doopliss]

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 25 2004, 10:57 AM
Saying that the triforce gives one the means to fulfil their wish can't be right.  At the end of ALttP Link makes a wish on the triforce right?  As far as I can see the wish is that everything will go back to the way it was before Aghanim opened the portal to the sacred realm, excepting the fact that Ganon has been defeated.  If the triforce gave only the means to fulfill a wish then this particular wish would be impossible, how can one gain the means to bring the dead back to life and return all order to Hyrule?

As far as the sacred realm being created when Ganon wished on it in OoT, I agree, but it doesn't explain how all the pieces return to the Sacred Realm between OoT and ALttP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, then remember the prophecy of the Great Cathaclysm.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Originally posted by Zythe@Sep 25 2004, 10:37 AM
Well, there were many wishes before that point, which all counter-react. Like the wish for hope, which I beleive created the Great Cataclysm, and when the original Sages did construct a very powerful seal, if Ganon didn't take that into account when using the Triforce to take over Hyrule the 'spell' made the Sacred Realm into a copy of Hyrule.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Great Flood was not caused by wishing on the Triforce. Keep in mind when Link left...the Triforce of Courage had split...so that left Hyrule without a unified Triforce to wish with. Triforce of Courage split into eight pieces before the Cataclysm.... The Flood was caused by the people praying to the Gods...not wishing on the Triforce. I've seen nothing palpable explaining how the a united Triforce returned to the Sacred Realm and how did Ganon get back into the sacred Realm at the start of LTTP?

[Tri-Enforcer]

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 27 2004, 11:04 AM
I apologize, but I think I'm becoming a bit lost, there is mention of a great cataclysm in both WW and ALttP.  In WW it was Ganon's return and the subsequent flooding of Hyrule.  As for ALttP, I haven't been able to remember or track down enough information on it to come to any conclusion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh excuse me...I use Great Flood and Cataclysm interchangeably, but the "cataclysm" is basically the events that Ahanim was causing at the start of LTTP. The the Flood is of course...the Great Flood which is what caused the state of the world in TWW. I was correcting someone who claimed the Flood was caused by someone wishing on the Triforce, but it was from the people praying to the Gods. I don't know, but I think Zythe was referring to the "cataclysm" as being the Flood, although a great flood in itself is "cataclysmic"....

[Doopliss]

BlackHawkA100 and Tri-Enforcer, I think both of you are confused, he and I were referring to the prophecy of the Great Cathaclysm, which suggest that a hero will appear when an evil-hearted person wishes upon the Triforce. My porpuse by naming the prophecy is to explain why Ganon didn't conquer Hyrule, because the hero, Link, succeded in his quest.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Originally posted by La Catrina@Sep 27 2004, 03:35 PM
BlackHawkA100 and Tri-Enforcer, I think both of you are confused, he and I were referring to the prophecy of the Great Cathaclysm, which suggest that a hero will appear when an evil-hearted person wishes upon the Triforce. My porpuse by naming the prophecy is to explain why Ganon didn't conquer Hyrule, because the hero, Link, succeded in his quest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok that's cleared...I just thought someone was telling the TWW bactstory the wrong way. That's cool.

But this still doesn't explain:

1) In OOT Ganon didn't couldn't even make his wish...the Triforce split once he touched it--everyone keeps saying that's when the Sacred Realm became the Dark World, but Ganon couldn't get his freakin' wish off!

2) Ganon does not have the united Triforce at the end of OOT, he only has ToP. So how did a unified Triforce end up back into the Sacred Realm/Dark World in LTTP, and how the heck did Ganon get ahold of it?

3) When Ganon turned the SR into Dark World, why didn't the Triforce split on him, like it did in OOT? At the start of LTTP Ganon has the unified the Triforce already in his possesion.

4) If you place LTTP sometime after TWW, how did Ganon end up back in the Sacred Realm, he was stoned...possibly killed? We don't know if by default whenever you kill Ganon he goes to the Sacred Realm...he has to be sealed for that...not killed...canon shows this.

[Doopliss]

Well, we don't know if Ganon made his wish in OoT, since Rauru and the other saged locked him in the Void of the Evil Realm, I'm sure he made his wish.

There are many possibile ways to explain how Ganon could get the Triforce before ALttP, there's a long period of time between OoT and ALttP either in a single or multiple timeline theory.

We never see Ganon touching the Triforce during ALttP, it's only in his possession .

We have seen that Ganon can be revived in many different and exiting ways (batteries not included).

[Showsni]

If you put LttP before OoT, it resolves most of these. There is, then, an IW as mentioned in the aLttP manual before aLttP.

1) In OOT Ganon didn't couldn't even make his wish...the Triforce split once he touched it--everyone keeps saying that's when the Sacred Realm became the Dark World, but Ganon couldn't get his freakin' wish off!

There is no mention of the triforce even being able to split in aLttP - if it comes before OoT, we can assume that the triforce was changed by being broken in the AoL backstory, or by a spell cast at the time the Temple of Time was made, to cause the split in OoT.

2) Ganon does not have the united Triforce at the end of OOT, he only has ToP. So how did a unified Triforce end up back into the Sacred Realm/Dark World in LTTP, and how the heck did Ganon get ahold of it?

This is no problem if aLttP comes before OoT.

3) When Ganon turned the SR into Dark World, why didn't the Triforce split on him, like it did in OOT? At the start of LTTP Ganon has the unified the Triforce already in his possesion.

There is no mention of the triforce even being able to split in aLttP - if it comes before OoT, we can assume that the triforce was changed by being broken in the AoL backstory, or by a spell cast at the time the Temple of Time was made, to cause the split in OoT.

4) If you place LTTP sometime after TWW, how did Ganon end up back in the Sacred Realm, he was stoned...possibly killed? We don't know if by default whenever you kill Ganon he goes to the Sacred Realm...he has to be sealed for that...not killed...canon shows this.

I don't put aLttP after TWW.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 29 2004, 12:58 PM
I suppose you could argue all the above points, but how would you explain Ganon's state in each game?  In ALttP he is Ganon, the king of evil (in piggy form) in OoT, he is Ganondorf of the Gerudo, a human.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm a firm believer that Ganon can change forms at will...with the Triforce or without it!

Showsni, lately I too have been playing around with a theory that puts LTTP before OOT. I don't know have details yet...but I'm working on it.

[Doopliss]

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 29 2004, 12:05 PM
True, there is a long period of time, but nothing to explain how he got it?  If you're suggesting that he somehow escaped the sacred realm and retrieved the pieces then you have to be wrong, else why would he be trying to escape in ALttP?

We never see Ganon touch the triforce in ALttP, but we know that he has the united triforce and that he has made his wish, all that we don't know is how he got the triforce? 

By the way, let's hear one of your many explanations of how he got it all back together, maybe it could clear some stuff up for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, as we know, the Triforce was split at the end of The Wind Waker, now if Link and Tetra find a new Hyrule, the king's wish would have technically been granted, so the Triforce should be waiting for a new master, which could be Ganon. The Essence of the Triforce told Link that Ganon asked for a wish, but it could be referring to Ocarina of Time, so that doesn't mean that Ganon wished twice. What I'm trying to say is that we don't know if Ganon wished on the Triforce after The Wind Waker in a timeline following as this: OoT MM TWW ALttP.

[Tri-Enforcer]

Originally posted by La Catrina (Bulmaro)@Oct 1 2004, 03:35 PM
Well, as we know, the Triforce was split at the end of The Wind Waker, now if Link and Tetra find a new Hyrule, the king's wish would have technically been granted, so the Triforce should be waiting for a new master, which could be Ganon. The Essence of the Triforce told Link that Ganon asked for a wish, but it could be referring to Ocarina of Time, so that doesn't mean that Ganon wished twice. What I'm trying to say is that we don't know if Ganon wished on the Triforce after The Wind Waker in a timeline following as this: OoT MM TWW ALttP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude, The Triforce split on Ganon when he attempted to make a wish in OOT, so his wish didn't happen.... In the TWW backstory...he couldn't of made a wish...cuz the Triforce of Courage was split into 8 pieces.

With that said, if we do go by your timeline, then somehow, the Triforce ended up back in the Sacred Realm....somehow Ganon ended up back in the Sacred Realm...and then Ganon was able to make a wish...all of those loose ends would have to be explained sometime between TWW and LTTP, if you go by your timeline.

[Doopliss]

Originally posted by Tri-Enforcer@Oct 1 2004, 04:48 PM
Dude, The Triforce split on Ganon when he attempted to make a wish in OOT, so his wish didn't happen....  In the TWW backstory...he couldn't of made a wish...cuz the Triforce of Courage was split into 8 pieces. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it didn't happen, but the Dark World was created because of that wish. If you remember the Essence of the Triforce said that his wish turned the Sacred Realm into the Dark World, so definitely it's referring to OoT, the point is that there's not any evidence to believe that Ganon wished twice on the Triforce.

[SOAP]

^ Yeah, that's what I basicly believe. I mean, in ALttP, it says Dark World was created after Ganon made a wish on the Triforce which he found when he stumbled into the Sacred Realm. How do you "stumble" into a place you should already like the back of your hand? Dark World must have been created in OoT because that's the first time Ganon ever enters the Sacred Realm. Therefore Realm of Evil=Dark World.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

The thing is, when the ALttP manual was first written for the SNES, it was implied that the Imprisoning War was just that and that Ganon never escaped from the Dark World after being sealed inside. There was never intended for a game to be in between where Ganon escapes.

The way Ganon speaks to Link in the Pyramid, you get the feeling that Agahnim was his only nearly successful attempt at escaping.

Hence the Ganon in ALttP cannot be the same Ganon from OoT, unless... there's a Multiple Timeline. :icon_twis

ALTTP happens if the Triforce doesn't split.
WW happens if the Triforce does split.

The only other explanation you can give is that OoT is NOT the Imprisoning War that is mentioned in ALTTP, in which case Ganons getting sealed into Dark Realms must be a very common feature in Hyrulean History.

Hyrulean History Student: So Ganon IV was killed in the Dark World?
Teacher: No, Ganon III got sealed into the Dark World by the Seven Elders. Ganon IV was sealed in the Dark Realm by Seven Sages and then escaped later, and had the Master Sword plunged through his head...
Hyrulean History Student: So who was Ganon VI?
Teacher: He was the Ganon that got sealed in the Sword.
Student: These Ganons aren't very good at not being sealed away...

[Tri-Enforcer]

Yes, it didn't happen, but the Dark World was created because of that wish. If you remember the Essence of the Triforce said that his wish turned the Sacred Realm into the Dark World, so definitely it's referring to OoT, the point is that there's not any evidence to believe that Ganon wished twice on the Triforce.

If a wish is not granted then nothing happens! There's no half wish. The Triforce split on Ganon in OOT. The future that Ganon conquered was in Hyrule/Light World not the Sacred Realm/Dark World. Yes, he entered the Sacred Realm but Gannon couldn't get his wish off, and the Triforce split. All Ganon can do is manually take power with the use of the Triforce of Power, without the whole Triforce...Ganon couldn't get his wish off because it spilt on him when he touched it--nothing happened as a result of that. Because of that Gannon had to manually (with the ToP) do everything himself...while searching for the missing pieces once more So the event mentioned to us in OOT, was mostly likely not the point when Gannon turnerd the SR into the Dark World.

(Mario Jr)^ Yeah, that's what I basicly believe. I mean, in ALttP, it says Dark World was created after Ganon made a wish on the Triforce which he found when he stumbled into the Sacred Realm. How do you "stumble" into a place you should already like the back of your hand? Dark World must have been created in OoT because that's the first time Ganon ever enters the Sacred Realm. Therefore Realm of Evil=Dark World.

That would apply to when Link returned to the past for the final time. This time around, the Imprisoning war happens differently from what we saw in OOT.