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Ganondorf and the Dark World


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#1 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 09:58 AM

I was sketching out possible timelines for ALttP today and came upon something that I couldn't explain (or believe that I can't anyway). How was the Sacred Realm turned into the Dark World and when? As far as I can remember in ALttP it explains that Ganondorf Dragmire was a thief who ended up finding his way into the Sacred Realm and finding the Tri-Force, once he had done that he wished on it to have his own world, this turned the Sacred Realm into a world tainted by Ganon's evil. This leads to my question, at what point does Ganon ever posess the triforce? Or what other explanation can supercede that given by the game itself? I can't finish my timeline without a hole in it without this information. Any theories or explanations would be very much appreciated.

#2 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 11:01 AM

That's a rather interesting point.... Many of us accept that OOT is the IW (Imprisoning War), and the IW is mentioned in the backstory of LTTP. In OOT Ganon only had the Triforce of Power even when they sealed him in the Sacred Realm...he did not have the whole Triforce. In LTTP and the IW backstory he has the whole Triforce to himself. This somewhat contradicts what happened in OOT. There can't be no mistranslation over the course of generations...because we see for ourselves in LTTP that Ganon has the whole Triforce, but in OOT he only has the Triforce of Power. If OOT really is the IW then how did Ganon end up with the whole Triforce? Is it possible that the LTTP backstory is refering to a different event from what we saw in OOT...? If so, OOT wouldn't be the IW.

#3 Showsni

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 02:40 PM

One of the reasons I have OoT and the IW seperate in my theory. In mine, the IW happens exactly as in the aLttP manual.

If you really want a way to have Ganon obtain the rest of the triforce, and you don't mind being ridiculed, Link: Faces of Evil shows how Ganon can get the ToW, and Zelda: Wand of Gamelon shows how he can get the ToC.

#4 Hero of Winds

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 03:15 PM

^Wow, really? Ganon gets the other two Triforces in the CD-i games? :huh:

#5 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 03:20 PM

@Showsni

He gets them in those games? Really? Do those games count? How does he get them in the CD-i games?

EDIT: I just looked over several walkthroughs (those games were short!) and summaries about the CD-i games. None of them have anything to with the Triforce or the Sacred Realm.

#6 Showsni

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 03:57 PM

It doesn't explicitly state he gets them, but it is very likely. In Wand of Gamelon, the king takes the Triforce of Courage with him to Gamelon, but is captured and made prisoner by Ganon. In Faces of Evil, Ganon captures princess Zelda. It is certainly likely that Ganon would take the ToC from the king, and there is no mention of recovering it after Ganon is sealed away. It is also possible that Ganon got the ToW when he kidnapped Zelda.

#7 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Showsni@Sep 23 2004, 02:57 PM
It doesn't explicitly state he gets them, but it is very likely. In Wand of Gamelon, the king takes the Triforce of Courage with him to Gamelon, but is captured and made prisoner by Ganon. In Faces of Evil, Ganon captures princess Zelda. It is certainly likely that Ganon would take the ToC from the king, and there is no mention of recovering it after Ganon is sealed away. It is also possible that Ganon got the ToW when he kidnapped Zelda.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, but their all rescued at the end of the game...I think think they'd mention if something valuable like the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage were missing...let along mention them taking it with them. Also those games are obsolete...none of the mainstream games makes reference to the CD-i games..nor do the CD-i games makes reference to the any mainstream game.

#8 davogones

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Posted 23 September 2004 - 06:43 PM

The cdi games don't count, guys. Aonuma I think denied that they had any involvement in their creation.

The Sacred Realm turned into the Dark World because it is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart of those who enter it (as told in OoT). Ganon had an evil heart so this turned the Sacred Realm into a dark shadow of Hyrule. Another way of saying this is that Ganon's wish to rule the world is what changed the Golden Land into the Dark World (which is how they put it in ALttP).

#9 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 09:22 AM

Originally posted by davogones@Sep 23 2004, 05:43 PM
The Sacred Realm turned into the Dark World because it is a mirror that reflects what is in the heart of those who enter it (as told in OoT). Ganon had an evil heart so this turned the Sacred Realm into a dark shadow of Hyrule. Another way of saying this is that Ganon's wish to rule the world is what changed the Golden Land into the Dark World (which is how they put it in ALttP).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That's true but Blackhawk is asking...at what point did Ganon turn the Sacred/Golden Realm into the Dark World? Also, I'm asking how did Ganon end up with a united Triforce in the Sacred Realm at the start of LTTP...when in OOT, which many call the IW, he only had the Triforce of Power when he was sealed there?

#10 Sir Deimos

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 09:32 AM

maybe the OoT Zelda and Link have the power of the Tri-force of Wisdom and Courage and not the actual pieces of the tri-force themselves? in games like the Wind Waker they actually have the piece of the tri-force whereas in OoT its represented by a mark on the hand... maybe they were imbued with the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage's power, but not actually in possession of those pieces? maybe the triforce actually exsisted on its own in the other realm where Ganon could have obtained it

#11 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Synile@Sep 24 2004, 08:32 AM
maybe the OoT Zelda and Link have the power of the Tri-force of Wisdom and Courage and not the actual pieces of the tri-force themselves?  in games like the Wind Waker they actually have the piece of the tri-force whereas in OoT its represented by a mark on the hand... maybe they were imbued with the Triforce of Wisdom and Courage's power, but not actually in possession of those pieces? maybe the triforce actually exsisted on its own in the other realm where Ganon could have obtained it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The pieces are actually inside the respective person who posseses them. The reason it is not shown in OOT is becauses Triforce of courage wasn't shattered and there was no need to run around collecting it...also Zelda had the Triforce of wisdom...but it wasn't pulled out of her, like in TWW. Also when Ganon was sealed, he even said as long as he had the Triforce of Power he'll be able to wreak havoc.... So once more we have a gap in the story behind the Triforce being united in between OOT and LTTP.

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 12:14 PM

Alright, so disregarding the cd-i conversation (which was nonetheless interesting) we know that the tri-force is contained inside the person who posesses it's power, in this case it would be considered more of an essence than an actual tangible item. However, when the triforce pieces are brought together they are always seen as the three golden triangles, this is the state in which they grant a wish correct?

True, ALttP states that the sacred realm mirrored the heart of whoever entered it, but that can't be entirely true unless it only mirrors the first person who enters it. But the game also says that the tri-force grants the deepest wish of the person who touches it, that in my opinion is what changed the sacred realm to the dark world. The darkness in Ganon's heart granted his desire to rule and transformed itself into the dark world. Back to my question though, at what point would Ganon be able to make this wish?

As I've been thinking I've came up with the theory that when Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm for the first time in OoT he did find the tri-force and did make his wish on it. The explanation of his only retaining the tri-force of power is that after he made his wish the triforce split, he kept the piece most reflected in his heart and the other two pieces went to the two people who most represented the particular traits of Courage and Wisdom, Link and Zelda respectively. This however opens the door to other questions...

#13 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 01:18 PM

Originally posted by BlackHawkA100@Sep 24 2004, 11:14 AM
As I've been thinking I've came up with the theory that when Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm for the first time in OoT he did find the tri-force and did make his wish on it.  The explanation of his only retaining the tri-force of power is that after he made his wish the triforce split, he kept the piece most reflected in his heart and the other two pieces went to the two people who most represented the particular traits of Courage and Wisdom, Link and Zelda respectively.  This however opens the door to other questions...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Such as how did the Triforce pieces get reunited in Sacred Realm with Ganon possesing all three pieces instead of just one at the start of LTTP? And why is Ganon able to touch the Triforce without it splitting in LTTP, whereas it splits in OOT when he touched it?

#14 Guest_BlackHawkA100_*

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 01:21 PM

Precisely, which is why I'm rethinking everything.

#15 Guest_facade_*

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 01:48 PM

I agree with devongames, the cd-i games were released for very stupid reasons and bombed, they were not part of thew story, sorry, typo

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 01:51 PM

did'nt you listen to that one guy in the mountains in ALttP he sain agahim is helping Ganon start a base in the Dark world. the pyramid of power was built and sealed th hold the "golden power" as long as Ganon was in there, he had the so called "Golden Power"
golden Pyramid=Golden Power

I saw great wonders in the pyramid of power, but is has been sealed up- That ghost

#17 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 02:00 PM

Originally posted by facade@Sep 24 2004, 12:51 PM
did'nt you listen to that one guy in the mountains in ALttP he sain agahim is helping Ganon start a base in the Dark world. the pyramid of power was built and sealed th hold the "golden power" as long as Ganon was in there, he had the so called "Golden Power"
golden Pyramid=Golden Power

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I understand that, but how did the other 2 pieces of the Triforce get back into the Sacred Realm if Ganon only had the Triforce of power at the end of OOT when he was sealed? Also, why return the pieces to the Sacred Realm while Ganon is there? And once more why doesn't the Triforce split when Ganon touches it in LTTP, but it splits in OOT?

#18 Hero of Winds

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 02:30 PM

Given my current theory, I figure the Hyruleans moved the Triforce from Hyrule Castle back to it's original resting place: the Sacred Realm. But I don't have much reasoning for why they did that. :deadlink:

#19 Zythe

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 02:36 PM

How can one traverse to the Sacred Realm, Hero?

#20 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 02:37 PM

Originally posted by Hero of Winds@Sep 24 2004, 01:30 PM
Given my current theory, I figure the Hyruleans moved the Triforce from Hyrule Castle back to it's original resting place: the Sacred Realm. But I don't have much reasoning for why they did that. :deadlink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That would be kinda careless on their parts...if that's the case...then the Hyrulians were asking for it! Also...the Triforce split when Ganon touched it in OOT (leaving him with T of Power)...why ddn't it split when he touched it in LTTP?

#21 Zythe

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 02:46 PM

The legend speaks of how when you touch it at first it will split if your heart is not balanced, we discussed this a couple times and it says nothing about if you manage to get it entirely once again by your own hard work showing Courage and Wisdow and Power.

#22 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Zythe@Sep 24 2004, 01:46 PM
The legend speaks of how when you touch it at first it will split if your heart is not balanced, we discussed this a couple times and it says nothing about if you manage to get it entirely once again by your own hard work showing Courage and Wisdow and Power.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Care to run that by me again? I didn't understand especially towards the end. Balanced heart? What's different between the heart Ganon had in OOT and the heart he had in LTTP?

#23 Zythe

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 02:58 PM

I'm not entirely sure but you get the peice you're most suited to and whoever's most deserving gets the others. There was no difference in heart, because the heart thing applies only to the first time I think.

#24 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Zythe@Sep 24 2004, 01:58 PM
I'm not entirely sure but you get the peice you're most suited to and whoever's most deserving gets the others. There was no difference in heart, because the heart thing applies only to the first time I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


But you can only make a wish when all 3 pieces are together... nonetheless one piece can amplify your powers. That still doesn't explain how the Triforce was united prior to the start of LTTP, and why the unified Triforce reacted differently to Ganon in OOT and LTTP.

#25 Zythe

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 03:17 PM

It does explain how they act differently, depending on how you interpret it. As for its being one in LTTP, the wish in TWW accounts for that.

#26 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Zythe@Sep 24 2004, 02:17 PM
It does explain how they act differently, depending on how you interpret it. As for its being one in LTTP, the wish in TWW accounts for that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Care to tell me why they react differently again...and where it says it? If you put TWW before LTTP, then how did Ganon get into the Sacred Realm? He was stoned possibly killed. Before you answer, TWW wasn't the Imprisoning War.... According to LTTP backstory it explains how he was sealed...no mention of being impaled by the MS and being stoned! Plus there were no Knights of Hyrule in TWW nor were there seven sages to help defeat Ganon.

#27 Zythe

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 03:37 PM

I did not say that TWW came immediately before LTTP, just sometime before. From OOT but not exact, as for the split, the first time you touch it if your heart is not balanced it splits and is distributed as you know, but if you're able to gather the peices again after they've been split (like in TWW) you are no longer bound by that rule because you were able to search out each peice,

That's how I see it anyway.

#28 Tri-Enforcer

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Zythe@Sep 24 2004, 02:37 PM
I did not say that TWW came immediately before LTTP, just sometime before. From OOT but not exact, as for the split, the first time you touch it if your heart is not balanced it splits and is distributed as you know, but if you're able to gather the peices again after they've been split (like in TWW) you are no longer bound by that rule because you were able to search out each peice,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Still doesn't explain how Ganon goes from being stoned to being in the Sacred Realm.

So...u mean to tell me that...OOT/IW sealing happens...Ganon comes back/no Hero around...great flood occurs...TWW events...then LTTP. But the LTTP backstory only talks about the IW and not how Ganon came back, how the world was flooded and also how the lands were reunited after generations after the flood.... That's alooooot of history that the LTTP backstory is missing out on then if you put it that way. That's [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of critical stuff missing from that history book...also you'd think they'd have fonder memories of the latter half of that history.

#29 Zythe

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 03:55 PM

TWW, Ganon Dies
Oracles, Ganon is Brought Back and then Dies
Some game where Ganon comes back and is sealed away again (Hopefully TMC)
LTTP, Ganon is killed again

Anyway, before the release of Wind Waker there was a quite popular theory that because of the curse in OOT as long as there are 7 sages he'll go back to the Sacred Realm. I'll look for the evidence that backed that up, I know it exists. Give me time.

#30 Doopliss

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Posted 24 September 2004 - 04:16 PM

I think the Sacred Realm was turned into the Dark World after Ganon touched the Triforce in OoT, since his wish was surely to conquer the world the Dark World became his own Hyrule, then, he built an army in the Dark World and used it to conquer Hyrule in OoT. As you know, when Ganon died in ALttP the Dark World was destroyed, since we never see him die before ALttP (according to the most accepted single timeline theory) we can asume that the Sacred Realm remained as the Dark Word from OoT to ALttP.

Now, as davogones says, maybe the Triforce doesn't fulfill the wishes automatically, it just gives the person means to fulfill it. In this case, the Sacred Realm was turned into a paralell version of Hyrule so Ganon could build up power to attack the light world then, as one of the maidens explains Link.




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