145 replies to this topic

[mohammedali]

I agree that SZ is before TWW, but that doesn't mean that there are two kings. It makes a lot more sense if there's only one king... Who is your second king, anyway? Someone who finds the lost triforce that the other king, Zelda's brother, couldn't find, then immediately hides it again?

For your timeline it seems you could argue that there was both 1 king AND Zelda was the first. I have to say it makes your timeline seem a whole lot more attractive than it did before
However, I still don't like the idea of OoT not being aLttP's Bs, and for everyone who puts AoL after WW or aLttP after WW, there would have to be 2 kings mentioned in the story for it to work. As for who the other King is, I assume it's one of the Kings after aLttP who couldn't control the Triforce after Link left it in Hyrule and hence was searching for another that could - in any case, it really doesn't matter as there are so many possible reasons.

Mohammed Ali

[MikePetersSucks]

I've been over this even more times. There is no canon reason why the Sleeping Zelda cannot be chronologically first. The Triforce clearly seems to have been tampered with in some way before OoT, otherwise how the hell did they get it into the Temple of Light, and build a link from that exact spot to the Temple of Time in Hyrule? How could they have created the Master Sword which is stated to be used to repel the Trifroces power if they never even found the Triforce?  

YES THERE IS! The Triforce of Courage -.O

No. The Gods told the people to make somthing that could repulse the power of the Triforce (aLttP Manuel). This was done using the gods' power (which I take to be the Trifocre), done by 2 sages (WW Quote).  

The God's Power doesn't have to be the Triforce. They could've come down and like...given them Triforce repellant ore or something. and there's a different between forging a sword and praying to keep it powered.

Right. So everyone is looking for the Triforce. Everyone wants to use it, but no. They find it and decide to leave it there. I don't think you realise how much this item was desired. Even the King in AoL Bs was said to use this to maintain order in Hyrule. It doesn't make sence for one to leave it.

Keep in mind that the Fierce War happened because everyone forgot where the Triforce was hidden, and thought everyone else had it, but no one did. That implies it was already hidden. Hey, if the Triforce and the Master Sword were God Created, why not the seal that binds the two in place? or maybe, the Sages, which is the closest thing to prophets in Hyrule, were able to kill their egos and abandon all earthly desires, doing what was right for the people? They seem to have that attitude in OOT.

Dude, you know that that isn't a canon fact. Why lie to yourself? It is never said that the Triforce was hidden before Zelda went to sleep. Sorry but it isn't a fact. Try again

Holy crap, that's so wrong. Yes it is. Are you actually reading your sources of information, or are you just skimming the boards?

For your timeline it seems you could argue that there was both 1 king AND Zelda was the first. I have to say it makes your timeline seem a whole lot more attractive than it did before

hypocrite.

However, I still don't like the idea of OoT not being aLttP's Bs, and for everyone who puts AoL after WW or aLttP after WW, there would have to be 2 kings mentioned in the story for it to work. As for who the other King is, I assume it's one of the Kings after aLttP who couldn't control the Triforce after Link left it in Hyrule and hence was searching for another that could - in any case, it really doesn't matter as there are so many possible reasons.

I don't like the idea of Sleeping Zelda coming first either. Unfortunately for you, OOT being LTTP's backstory is fact. The Triforce of Courage was hidden before the King died and he told Sleeping Zelda where it was. The Triforce of Courage was never disturbed besides that. The Sleeping Zelda story was way more important than the introduction of the Legend of Zelda. It was the introduction of the Triforce of Courage ITSELF! To change this is to make the Sleeping Zelda entirely moot.

As for not being able to control the Triforce, gimme a break. ANYONE can control a peice of the Triforce. It's all a matter of using it for good or evil.

in any case, it really doesn't matter as there are so many possible reasons.

Yes, it does matter. Because you haven't given us any proof that Fyxe hasn't ripped to shreds. The only thing you have going for you is that Jabun quote and even that's been contested by nearly everyone on the board. Fyxe is the only one here who's given us unbiased evidence. To make your quote work, we have to get into YOUR train of thought, which is a big no-no for any intellectual conversation.

[mohammedali]

YES THERE IS! The Triforce of Courage -.O

Don't post unless you've read the arguement thus far. As I've explained, it is not a canon fact.

The God's Power doesn't have to be the Triforce. They could've come down and like...given them Triforce repellant ore or something. and there's a different between forging a sword and praying to keep it powered.

Regardless, we know they both forged it, and kept it powered.

Keep in mind that the Fierce War happened because everyone forgot where the Triforce was hidden, and thought everyone else had it, but no one did. That implies it was already hidden. Hey, if the Triforce and the Master Sword were God Created, why not the seal that binds the two in place? or maybe, the Sages, which is the closest thing to prophets in Hyrule, were able to kill their egos and abandon all earthly desires, doing what was right for the people? They seem to have that attitude in OOT.

The MS was man made. The sages created the Temples. Zelda knew of where the Triforce was in OoT.

Holy crap, that's so wrong. Yes it is. Are you actually reading your sources of information, or are you just skimming the boards?

Are you serious? Thats a question you should ask yourself. I know my stuff well enough.

I don't like the idea of Sleeping Zelda coming first either. Unfortunately for you, OOT being LTTP's backstory is fact. The Triforce of Courage was hidden before the King died and he told Sleeping Zelda where it was. The Triforce of Courage was never disturbed besides that. The Sleeping Zelda story was way more important than the introduction of the Legend of Zelda. It was the introduction of the Triforce of Courage ITSELF! To change this is to make the Sleeping Zelda entirely moot.

No. What you said was not fact but your opinion on how it goes. Don't pass it off as canon when it's not.

As for not being able to control the Triforce, gimme a break. ANYONE can control a peice of the Triforce. It's all a matter of using it for good or evil.

Not quite. It requires special inate qualities etc. Sure anyone can touch it and make a wish, but not control.

Yes, it does matter. Because you haven't given us any proof that Fyxe hasn't ripped to shreds. The only thing you have going for you is that Jabun quote and even that's been contested by nearly everyone on the board. Fyxe is the only one here who's given us unbiased evidence. To make your quote work, we have to get into YOUR train of thought, which is a big no-no for any intellectual conversation.

I have no problem with you licking Fyxes ass, but don't send absolute crap in the form of a post about 'no-nos in intellectual conversation'. I'm not claiming my view is the only one acceptable, just that it's a possibility. To deny that is simply ignorance.

Mohammed Ali

[Crazy Penguin]

There's on thing we all seemed to have forgotten in this thread - in The Wind Waker, Tetra isn't simply renamed Zelda, her clothes, hair style and skin colour change too. Clearly there's something more going on than just a simple naming tradition.

[Fyxe]

That's what I always thought. Tetra is some sort of disguise she was given, like Shiek, except she's unaware.

They also mention her mother in the game and there's no talk of her being Zelda too. I mean, couldn't they of just found her mother instead, sooner?

[Crazy Penguin]

That's what I always thought.  Tetra is some sort of disguise she was given, like Shiek, except she's unaware.

I don't think that's the case, because she returns to her Tetra appearance and identity at the end of the game.

I've always interpreted it as the Triforce of Wisdom "revealing" her ancestry, that whatever qualities Zelda had in Ocarina of Time (and remember, the Triforce of Wisdom chose her) were imbued within her descendant, Tetra, so as far as the Triforce of Wisdom is concerned Tetra is the same Zelda that it chose all those centuries ago, and when it "returned" to her it restored her "former" image.

Daphnes: The gods placed upon your ancestors the task of
protecting it from evil's grasp. You, too, must abide by the laws of the
past... and so the time has come for me to teach you the fate into which you
were born, the very reason that you live.

(Daphnes' other hand glows.)
(The glowing hands make a triangle that shoots out light.)
(Link shields his eyes.)
(Tetra turns into Princess Zelda.)
(The Triforce appears on Zelda's hand.)

Zelda: My... fate...
Daphnes: You are the true hero of the royal family of Hyrule... the last link
in the bloodline. You are Princess Zelda.
Zelda: ...Zelda? I'm... a princess?
Daphnes: You are confused, aren't you? I suppose such is to be expected.

The King was looking for the descendant of Zelda because she was the bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom and helped defeat Ganon the first time. The same goes for Link. The King was actively looking for the Hero of Time, and although he doesn't realise it at first, he finds him "reborn" in the form of the young boy he found.

King of Red Lions: Oh! What is this? There, on your hand- the Triforce piece
now dwells within you! It is the Triforce of Courage- proof that you are indeed
the true hero.

[mohammedali]

I've always interpreted it as the Triforce of Wisdom "revealing" her ancestry, that whatever qualities Zelda had in Ocarina of Time (and remember, the Triforce of Wisdom chose her) were imbued within her descendant, Tetra, so as far as the Triforce of Wisdom is concerned Tetra is the same Zelda that it chose all those centuries ago, and when it "returned" to her it restored her "former" image.

Zelda already hard part of the Triforce. That is how Ganon figures out who she is. The Triforce didn't choose her. It was passed on to her. Also, the first quote that we're talking about was said way in advance of Tetra changing into Zelda. Anyway, the whole turning into a princess thing shouldn't have an effect on her name. She should just be called Princess Tetra.

The King was looking for the descendant of Zelda because she was the bearer of the Triforce of Wisdom and helped defeat Ganon the first time. The same goes for Link. The King was actively looking for the Hero of Time, and although he doesn't realise it at first, he finds him "reborn" in the form of the young boy he found.

Link is declared by the King himself as having 'no connection' to the hero of time. Jabun even says asks the King if he is putting all his work into a complete stranger, and he essentially says yeah. This is something that comes across very clear. Also, Zelda being the decendant of Zelda doesn't make her Zelda. It shouldn't have any effect on what her name is unless there is a naming tradition.

Mohammed Ali

[Crazy Penguin]

Zelda already hard part of the Triforce. That is how Ganon figures out who she is. The Triforce didn't choose her. It was passed on to her.

A bit of both.

Daphnes: The gods placed upon your ancestors the task of
protecting it from evil's grasp. You, too, must abide by the laws of the
past... and so the time has come for me to teach you the fate into which you
were born, the very reason that you live.

(Daphnes' other hand glows.)
(The glowing hands make a triangle that shoots out light.)
(Link shields his eyes.)
(Tetra turns into Princess Zelda.)
(The Triforce appears on Zelda's hand.)

Zelda: My... fate...
Daphnes: You are the true hero of the royal family of Hyrule... the last link
in the bloodline. You are Princess Zelda.
Zelda: ...Zelda? I'm... a princess?
Daphnes: You are confused, aren't you? I suppose such is to be expected.

Also, the first quote that we're talking about was said way in advance of Tetra changing into Zelda. Anyway, the whole turning into a princess thing shouldn't have an effect on her name. She should just be called Princess Tetra.

How can changing of skin colour be considered part of "turning into a princess"?

[MikePetersSucks]

Don't post unless you've read the arguement thus far. As I've explained, it is not a canon fact.

I have, and you've been doing the exact same thing.

Regardless, we know they both forged it, and kept it powered.

In the American Manual. In the Japanese version of the LTTP manual, they couldn't find the Master Sword.

The MS was man made. The sages created the Temples. Zelda knew of where the Triforce was in OoT.

no

Are you serious? Thats a question you should ask yourself. I know my stuff well enough.

Says the one using the wrong source of information.

No. What you said was not fact but your opinion on how it goes. Don't pass it off as canon when it's not.

Except that's exactly why OOT was made. But Y'know, deny fact again.

Not quite. It requires special inate qualities etc. Sure anyone can touch it and make a wish, but not control.

Yea, for the whole Triforce, but for one peice of the Triforce, IE, the Triforce of Courage, anyone can just pick it up. As for wishing and controlling, what's the damn difference?

I have no problem with you licking Fyxes ass, but don't send absolute crap in the form of a post about 'no-nos in intellectual conversation'. I'm not claiming my view is the only one acceptable, just that it's a possibility. To deny that is simply ignorance.

Hypocrisy. It's what's for dinner.

There's on thing we all seemed to have forgotten in this thread - in The Wind Waker, Tetra isn't simply renamed Zelda, her clothes, hair style and skin colour change too. Clearly there's something more going on than just a simple naming tradition.

Most people do seem to believe that Link and Zelda are reincarnating the whole time.

That's what I always thought. Tetra is some sort of disguise she was given, like Shiek, except she's unaware.

I've thought the exact same thing

I don't think that's the case, because she returns to her Tetra appearance and identity at the end of the game.  

I've always interpreted it as the Triforce of Wisdom "revealing" her ancestry, that whatever qualities Zelda had in Ocarina of Time (and remember, the Triforce of Wisdom chose her) were imbued within her descendant, Tetra, so as far as the Triforce of Wisdom is concerned Tetra is the same Zelda that it chose all those centuries ago, and when it "returned" to her it restored her "former" image.  

The two interpretations can coexist without contradicting each other, as for returning back to Tetra, well I can solve that. It could be an allusion to the japanese fairy tale about the Aristocrat and the Cat. It was allusioned in FLCL and it does a good job of interpreting the moral.

In order to protect her self, Zelda is forced to adopt a new persona, Tetra. She's totally unaware of her true heritage until it's revealed by the Triforce of Wisdom. But it's too late, because the lie has become the truth, and now Zelda has to compromise her lifestyle between Pirate and Princess. Later, Ganon is defeated, and Zelda once more becomes Tetra. The Lie and the Truth have switched sides. Zelda is the alterego and Tetra is the reality. That became the only way Tetra can find happiness without compromising herself. This also ties in well with the fact that Hyrule is GONE, and there's no reason for Tetra continuing to be Zelda. Her life as Zelda is meaningless now, but she has all these friends and stuff as Tetra.

She should just be called Princess Tetra.

Reincarnation.

Also, Zelda being the decendant of Zelda doesn't make her Zelda

It does with Link and there's no naming tradition.

How can changing of skin colour be considered part of "turning into a princess"?

It's more than that. Her former self has been revealed. She's always been a princess.

[mohammedali]

I have, and you've been doing the exact same thing.

I've been doing the exact same thing? what are you on about? of course I've read the arguement I put forward, I wrot the bloody thing!!!

In the American Manual. In the Japanese version of the LTTP manual, they couldn't find the Master Sword.

Irrelevent. The point is that earlier in both manuels it says that the Gods asked the Hylians to make a blade powerfull enough to repell evil.

no

Actually, yes. All of what I said there is factually correct.

I'll finish the rest of your points later. Don't have time right now.

Mohammed Ali

[Fatgoron]

"Long ago when Hyrule was one kingdon, a great ruler maintained the peace in Hyrule using the Triforce. After the king died, the prince of the kingdom should have become king and inherited everything, but he could only inherit the triforce in part. The prince searched everywhere for the missing parts, but could not find them. A wizard close to the king said that, before he died, the king had said something about the Triforce to the younger sister of the prince, the Princess Zelda.
The prince immediately questioned the princess, but she revealed nothing. The wizard threatened to send the princess into an eternal sleep if she did not talk. Still the Princess Zelda said nothing. The wizard, fighting off the startled prince, cast his spell. The princess fell on that spot, entering into a deep sleep, and at the same moment, the wizard collapsed, too. In his grief, the prince placed the princess in the North Castle room in which we now stand. The prince hoped that someday Zelda would awaken from her slumber. So that this tragedy would never be forgotten, he ordered every female child born into the royal household be given the name Zelda."

From the stand next to the sleeping princess, Impa gave Link six crystals and a scroll with the same crest as the one on his hand, She explained that the items had been given to her ancestors by the king and handed down for generations in her family for when a time of need would come. The scroll, which cotained the key to uniting the triforce, was written in an ancient script that only those with the crest would be able to read.

Link glanced at the scroll doubtfully, but found that he understood the words as clearly as if they were spoken to him. The scroll revealed that the key to unlocking the Triforce's power was uniting all three: Power, Wisdom, and Courage. The king had left Power and Wisdom in the kingdom, but had Hidden courage, because only an individual with strong character and a special inborn quality could use it without disastrous results. Because the king had not found such a person during his reign, he cast a spell on Hyrule so that the crest would appear on the chosen one. But, if used before then, the Triforce would produce many evils.

The Scroll went on to reveal that the Triforce of Courage was in the Great Palace in the Valley of Death on the largest island in Hyrule. To enter the Great Palace, however, Link would first have to fight the guardiand protecting each of the six palaces in Hyrule, place the crystals in palace statues, and undo the binding force protecting the Valley of Death.

The prince could only inherit one part of the triforce.
The prince started a tradition.
Impa gives Link some items that were, assuming against Impa being prone to a bout of fallibility in this instance, handed down through her family, and which originated with the king.
The king had hidden the ToC, which explains part of the prince's inability to inherit the entire triforce. The king also left power ond wisdom in the kingdom, which infers that he had access to those two, which no king after the father of the sleeping princess, and before the end of AoL, could have.
The triforce of courage remains in the Great Palace in the Valley of Death throughout the entirety of the time between the AoL BS, and the AoL ending.

The only way to have more than one king being spoken about here, would be if he left the ToP and ToW in hyrule because he was too lazy to go find them, and he had the ToC and established the six palaces' seals and the Great Palace seal at least a generation after Zelda was put to sleep.
I have to agree with Fyxe on this, it's on the same level as speculating about wether or not Ganondorf prefers the company of fine gentlemen to the lady folk.

[mohammedali]

snip

My point is that the King that gave Impa the scroll and crystals may have been someone other than the King that died. This would make sence as the key to the room where Zelda is, is the same seal that appears on the back of Links hand. This could not have been done by Zeldas father as Zelda wasn't asleep then, and if it was done by someone else, then how did they know how to make a lock for a key they know very little about? The most logical explination is that whoever made the key (i.e. the mark mentioned in the scroll), also made lock. This cannot be the King as the lock was made after Zelda fell asleep, and so by implication, the scroll was written by someone else. This is all logical, and although there may be some fanfic reason why it would still work, it seems to be the most logical reason.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Except in using that logic you screw up the logic in the rest of the story.

Besides, the manual itself, as I have pointed out, says the King made the guardians of his temples.

And the writer of the scroll did this.

Hence, writer of the scroll = King.

No other king is mentioned, thus King = same King from before.

As for the lock, that's just magic, unless you can find a reason why someone can't make a magical lock based on the same magic used on a scroll. For example, if we compare this to a regular mechanical lock. Someone makes a lock that only a very special key can open. Nobody can open it because they can't find the key, but somebody could easily replicate that lock. Nobody would be able to open the second lock either, because the key is so special that they can't make that, but the lock could still be made.

[MikePetersSucks]

Irrelevent. The point is that earlier in both manuels it says that the Gods asked the Hylians to make a blade powerfull enough to repell evil.

No, the Japanese manual gives no details on the creation of the Master Sword.

And the Sleeping Zelda wasn't mentioned in the scroll, so that's irellevent.

[mohammedali]

No, the Japanese manual gives no details on the creation of the Master Sword.

And the Sleeping Zelda wasn't mentioned in the scroll, so that's irellevent.

MPS. Do your research. I've told you time and time again. Here's the quote this time, but next time find it yourself.

1st translation of aLttP manuel:
"Accordingly, to repel an evil "kidnapping" of the Triforce, Hyrule's people were informed by a divine oracle to make an "expel-evil" sword."

2nd translation of aLttP manuel:
"the people of Hyrule were told by the gods to make something that would repulse any evil that may kidnap the Triforce: the blade of evil's bane."

US version of aLttP manuel:
" the people of Hyrule forged a sword resistant to magic which could repulse even powers granted by the Triforce. This mighty weapon became known as the blade of evil's bane"

So there you have it. 3 versions. 2 from the Jap man, 1 straight from the US man. Note that the part the presedes this text in the US man is made up (about it being in responce to Ganon).

Mohammed Ali

[Fatgoron]

This would make sence as the key to the room where Zelda is, is the same seal that appears on the back of Links hand. This could not have been done by Zeldas father as Zelda wasn't asleep then, and if it was done by someone else, then how did they know how to make a lock for a key they know very little about? The most logical explination is that whoever made the key (i.e. the mark mentioned in the scroll), also made lock. This cannot be the King as the lock was made after Zelda fell asleep, and so by implication, the scroll was written by someone else.

The problem here is this:
http://nga.zophar.ne...e_of_link.html#

"For generations, my family has been handed down these things which have been set aside for a time when a great king will come."

The Impa family have handed those items down through the generations, which implies access to them, otherwise the staement would be redundant.
Since those things would have been collected and given to the Impas before Zelda was put to sleep, the idea that the lock was created after Zelda was put to sleep kind of falls apart.

[mohammedali]

The problem here is this:
http://nga.zophar.ne...e_of_link.html#

Actually, I just spotted something in the booklet that proves that one King isn't always being refered to. The booklet says that "only the desendants of the Impa family who served the king knew how to open the door". This sentence uses the word king to mean any king. As Impa is a desendant of the Impa family, and knows how to open the door, the reference of king also works for the king at the time of AoL. This shows that the use of the word king isn't exclusive to the Sleeping Zelda's father. There is no reason that this switching of which king is being reference to is not used later on.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

How does that sentence refer to any king? There was an Impa family who served the King it's been talking about until now. The decendants from this family know how to open the door. Fairly simple line, that.

[mohammedali]

How does that sentence refer to any king?  There was an Impa family who served the King it's been talking about until now.  The decendants from this family know how to open the door.  Fairly simple line, that.

"only the desendants of the Impa family who served the king knew how to open the door"
Well I guess there could be 2 ways to interperet it.
1) It's the desendants of the Impa family who served a particular king, implying the king they served is the one that sealed Zelda in there as he told Impa about the seal. In this case it wouldn't be Sleeping Zelda's father.
2) It's the desendants of the Impa family who served a king (any king). This means only one king is not being referenced. Hence, the term king could be directed at any king and not necesserily Sleeping Zelda's father.
Given that the sentence is written in the instruction manuel BEFORE any mention of Sleeping Zelda's father who is talked about later, it is most likely number 2). Hence I would say that this line doesn't prove/disprove anything, but gives even more weight to SZ being first in the timeline.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

I must say that is a bit of a stretch to say it gives more weight to anything. We've got to a stage where we're arguing about grammar of a translated piece of text.

Basically, yes, it's *possible* to read into the story that there is more than one king talked about. Of course that's possible. But I think most people would agree that was both never intended by the writers and a bit of a stretch. When it comes to interpretation, the most obvious answer is, quite frankly, always right. Nintendo writes these stories for everyone to understand. The idea that there were two kings each with a secret about the Triforce and all that stuff is needlessly complex and was never even implied to the reader. It's something the reader has to read into the story themselves.

[mohammedali]

I must say that is a bit of a stretch to say it gives more weight to anything.  We've got to a stage where we're arguing about grammar of a translated piece of text.

Basically, yes, it's *possible* to read into the story that there is more than one king talked about.  Of course that's possible.  But I think most people would agree that was both never intended by the writers and a bit of a stretch.  When it comes to interpretation, the most obvious answer is, quite frankly, always right.  Nintendo writes these stories for everyone to understand.  The idea that there were two kings each with a secret about the Triforce and all that stuff is needlessly complex and was never even implied to the reader.  It's something the reader has to read into the story themselves.

You're right in so much that the writers most likely never expected the readers to think that there were 2 kings, but the same can be said about aLttP.
If you knew nothing about OoT being aLttP BS, you would have believed that Ganon entered the SR and claimed the whole Triforce, and has been residing there since, hence he has the whole Triforce at the end as well. The story clearly implies it... The ingame quotes strongly suggest it... So to say that he only got 1 piece originally and the other 2 came to him *somehow* was clearly not the intention of the storywriter at all. However, it never explicitly says how much of the Triforce Ganon actually got, so it is a possibility. We now know from OoT that the only way it can all work is with some facts not being intuitive to aLttP alone.
The entire aLttP story strongly suggests that the whole Triforce has not moved from Ganon's grasp since the moment he touched it, but we KNOW this isn't the case. Here is a perfect example of how the internal consistancy of the story for a game was sacraficed for the external consistancy of the story for the series. It's not unlikely that a similar thing was done with AoL and the AoL Bs.
Sure the game suggests it's one king, just like aLttP suggest Ganon owned the whole Triforce, but if the Legend of Zelda is to be true for the whole series, then there has to have been 2 kings in the BS, just like there is a more complicated explination of what really happened with the Triforce. If you accept OoT is aLttP Bs, then you shouldn't find AoL Bs being way before AoL and all the other games. Nonetheless, I leave you to make your own decission on where you think the game and BS go. I made mine a long time ago, and I have little doubt that Sleeping Zelda works perfectly at the start of any Zelda timeline.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

You can make it work, sure, it's just that when it comes to OoT, the creators did create an obvious way of solving the whole Triforce thing; Ganondorf was intending to take the remaining pieces of the Triforce, so we make the assumption that they're leading us to make... Ganon steals the remaining pieces back in the proceeding time.

My problem with the two kings theory is while it's of course possible, it's not something that was implied, and leads to creating more than one king who had a secret about the Triforce and all that. And also leads us to create a whole new story for the Triforce where it goes in and out of the Sacred Realm more times than necessary.

I simply find it easier to say that there just happened to be more Zeldas before the 'founding Zelda' in the same way there are many Links. In the end, it just seems like less of a stretch of interpretation that way.

[mohammedali]

I simply find it easier to say that there just happened to be more Zeldas before the 'founding Zelda' in the same way there are many Links.  In the end, it just seems like less of a stretch of interpretation that way.

Which is a similar arguement used by people who make OoT and aLttP BS seperate. The story doesn't imply a Triforce split is at all likely, but doesn't rule it out. It is obviously much easier to say that there just happened to be more than one time 7 sages sealed Ganon. Nonetheless, as a series on the whole it makes more sence OoT and aLttP ARE related. Similarly, it makes more sence that the Legend of Zelda (AoL Bs) existed first, and WW is a reference to that. To ignore the WW quotes, and say the Zelda's are named by coincidence is just as naive as there being two times the sages seal Ganon - sure it's more easy/simple, but it's just illogical in the grand scheme of things.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

But I think the quotes are more to do with the fact that Tetra is Zelda in a similar way that Sheik is Zelda. The quotes are by no means proof of the existence of the naming tradition, or the existence of any naming tradition at all.

[mohammedali]

But I think the quotes are more to do with the fact that Tetra is Zelda in a similar way that Sheik is Zelda.  The quotes are by no means proof of the existence of the naming tradition, or the existence of any naming tradition at all.

Zelda's name in OoT was Zelda, not Sheik. In WW however, Tetra's name was not Zelda. She's never heard that name before. For Jabun to call her Zelda instead of her actual name can only be because of the naming tradition. There is no other reason to call her that. If I was the desendant of Alexander the Great, people wouldn't start calling me Alexander instread of my actual name. There is no reason it should happen to Tetra either. The only explination is the line that the King says just before renaming Zelda, which speaks of her having to follow old traditions or something.

Mohammed Ali

[mohammedali]

It's possible, but I doubt it TWW comes after AoL.

I don't think WW is after AoL either. However, AoLs backstory can come before AoL does. Hence you can have AoL Backstory, then WW and some other games, then AoL itself.

Mohammed Ali

[Fyxe]

Zelda's name in OoT was Zelda, not Sheik. In WW however, Tetra's name was not Zelda. She's never heard that name before. For Jabun to call her Zelda instead of her actual name can only be because of the naming tradition. There is no other reason to call her that. If I was the desendant of Alexander the Great, people wouldn't start calling me Alexander instread of my actual name. There is no reason it should happen to Tetra either. The only explination is the line that the King says just before renaming Zelda, which speaks of her having to follow old traditions or something.

He said nothing about traditions, you just read that into it because it's convenient for your timeline.

Yes, Zelda's name in OoT was not Sheik... But when she was Sheik, it WAS Sheik. Similarly, Zelda in WW is called Tetra, but when she's Zelda, she's Zelda. Not only does her appearance change when it comes to clothes and hair, but her skin colour also changes, just like the transformation between Sheik and Zelda. She even starts to talk differently. This is *more* than just some naming tradition. She IS Zelda. The only difference between the Sheik thing is that Tetra wasn't aware of being Zelda, though Sheik was.

Although interestingly, in the OoT manga, Sheik *wasn't* aware of being Zelda. I wonder if they borrowed this concept at all? That's certainly not unheard of.

[MikePetersSucks]

MPD Princess. Good to know!

LTTP Zelda: Link! I am the Seventh Sage, Princess Zelda! NO, I AM ERROR! ZELDA! RAURU! TETRA!

[mohammedali]

He said nothing about traditions, you just read that into it because it's convenient for your timeline.

KING: "You, too, must abide by the laws of the past...and so the time has come for me to teach you the fate into which you were born, the very reason that you live."

ZELDA: "My...fate..."

KING: "You are the true heir of the royal family of Hyrule...the last link in the bloodline. You are Princess Zelda."

The line 'abiding by the laws of the past' proves my point even more than the word 'tradition', as it shows it is part of the law and not just something a custom. We also know that the Prince made it law for the girls to be called Zelda.

Yes, Zelda's name in OoT was not Sheik...  But when she was Sheik, it WAS Sheik.  Similarly, Zelda in WW is called Tetra, but when she's Zelda, she's Zelda.  Not only does her appearance change when it comes to clothes and hair, but her skin colour also changes, just like the transformation between Sheik and Zelda.  She even starts to talk differently.  This is *more* than just some naming tradition.  She IS Zelda.  The only difference between the Sheik thing is that Tetra wasn't aware of being Zelda, though Sheik was.

What are you on about? Tetra doesn't even talk until the end of the game after she turns into Zelda, and when she does her talk isn't any different. She's exactly the same. She still has that cheecky wink that she gives Link, and the same cocky attitude that she gives people like Ganon.
As for her appearence, the transformation is nothing like that of Sheik. Physically, Tetra doesn't change that much other than her skin colour for IMO asthetic purposes, but also the fact she doesn't know who Zelda is until the King tells her makes this idea sound crazy. There have been generations of her family since the flooding, and the King has been trying to locate his bloodline as the knowledge of who they are was lost, even to them. To say that Tetra was somehow changed from being Zelda is not possible. When WAS Tetra originally Zelda? Even if it was just when she was born, who in the family even KNEW they were royalty, and why didn't they tell Zelda? There's too much fanfic needed to make any sence of Tetra being Zelda before and then Zelda again after without any recollection of the past. It seems more like you're making up a random theory to explain something that makes perfect sence using a fact from another Zelda game.

Mohammed Ali