295 replies to this topic

[Hero of Slime]

They also changed the name of the ancient race from Hylia to Hylian. However, they did not change the name of the Lake.

[Fyxe]

No. If you are Hylian, you are part of the race called the Hylia, or Hylians.

HOLD IT A BLOODY SECOND. I just found out that the word meaning 'magical race' IS Mazoku.

"Ma zoku," which translates to "evil race/group/tribe," is used to describe Ganon's followers. This is the same word Agahnim uses after he sends Zelda to the Dark World, when he talks about the "Tribe of Evil." I find it likely that the tribe of evil is just a reference to Ganon's followers, not to some larger group as some have speculated.

Well that makes it [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] simpler. Unless 'Tribe of Darkness' is a translation of the word 'Mazoku', there's no connection. Mazoku is used in Slayers commonly, and has no real comparitive English word, except 'demon', which is why it is often just translated as 'evil monsters' or something like that.

The 'tribe of evil' basically just means demons. Agahnim is saying you can't beat us, the demon race, when we are armed with the Power of Gold.

I find it very unlikely that Tribe of Darkness is a translation of Mazoku. Mazoku is too common a word for it to be granted such a name. It just means a type of demon.

[SOAP]

Hold it, hold it. They dropped it in the manual, probably mainly due to space. It's still talked about plenty in the game. It's not like the Knights of Hyrule stopped existing. And 'lord' generally means a very similar thing to 'king' anyway. In fact, if I check the Japanese manual... Yes. He's called a king. Never called a lord anyway. It's the King of Hyrule in both instances.

Also remember that generally, manuals just don't have as much stuff as they used to, because people expect the games themselves to explain the plot anyway. Games never used to even do that, which is why manuals were traditionally longer and more detailed than they are now.

Thanks. I was scared there for almost a second. I have the GBA remake but I don't remember if the Knights of Hyrule were mentioned or not... iT's been a while since I picked it up.

Would you at least agree that the Knights of Hyrule in FSA are connected with the ones mentioned in ALttP? Both are capitalized as a proper name of a specific group and their backstories do match up.

[Fyxe]

True, although, in actuality, the term 'Knights of Hyrule' is never actually used in the Japanese ALttP. It just calls them 'Knights', or the family of Knights, and that's it.

It would be nice to find out the Japanese of FSA. I'm sure it would be interesting. They may refer to the Knights as just Knights, or they may call them by the full US name of Knights of Hyrule even in Japanese, which would be a weird example of common translations working backwards.

I think it's unlikely that 'Tribe of Darkness' is Mazoku in Japanese, however. I will admit it's a possibility, since you don't see a huge amount of particularly demonic monsters in the game (like Moblins, etc.), rather they seem to be more regular monsters, but still seems unlikely.

[SOAP]

Yes but in the US translation, using such a common phrase as a proper name seems like, at least to me, like they were referring to a specific group of knights, like a brotherhood or a bloodline, and not just knight that happen to be from Hyrule. If that's true and if the knights in FSA are same ones, then that would give FSA a legitament placement anywhere after the IW, since the Knights are already dead, having died while dealing with Ganon. How long ago is anyone's guess.

[Fyxe]

However, just because there are Knights of Hyrule in the backstory of one game doesn't mean there can't be another series of 'Knights of Hyrule' in another game. After all, in Japanese it is just 'family of Knights'. Surely you can have *different* 'families' or brotherhoods of Knights throughout history.

The use of Mazoku is REALLY interesting however. Watching enough of Slayers gives you an sense for the term. It's very distinctive. It gives me a whole new appreciation for Ganon and his army. Essentially, Ganon is a 'Dark Lord', a demon king, the ruler of the evil race of Mazoku. The term 'ruined' is commonly used to decribe the death of greater Mazoku in the Slayers world.

One should not read too much into NOA's translation when it says Ganon is "totally destroyed". "taoreru" means to collapse, to break down, to fall, to die, to succumb to, to fall senseless, to be ruined, and doesn't necessarily say anything about complete and utter destruction. It cannot be inferred from the Japanese version that Ganon will never return after ALttP, as some have speculated. In OoT, this word is nearly always translated to "destroy," never "totally destroy."

Looks to me that 'taoreru' is probably the same word they use in Slayers. While this does essentially mean the death of a Mazoku, it's not a death in the sense we know it. In essense, Ganon is a demon king, and how the hell do you kill a demon? No wonder he keeps coming back. For example, the great 'Dark Lord' in Slayers (known as Ruby Eye Shabranigdu) has actually been seperated into seven pieces. These seven pieces can be awakened within the bodies of humans. You may destroy a piece, but you will not have destroyed the whole of the Ruby Eye.

Maybe this means that the beast of 'Ganon' is something that goes beyond the mere man of Ganondorf.

[SOAP]

Okay, enough with the Mazoku! We get it it!

And what's wrong with assuming that they were refering to the same band of Knight of ALttP. Their backstories match up and nearly everything else in FSA seems to refer to ALttP in some way or another.

[Fyxe]

Mazoku Mazoku Mazoku Mazoku Mazoku.

Xellos Xellos Xellos.

Shabranigdu Shabranigdu Shabranigdu.

You try saying that fast.

Anyway...

You say that, and yes, there is some simarities, but there are a lot of differences. There are no Seven Sages. There is no Master Sword. No Triforce. No Sacred Realm. The Ganon in FSA is unknown, and the disappearance of the Tower of Winds and thus the death of the Knights of Hyrule is apparently recent, rather than something that occured during a great war previously. They are referring to this new Ganon, who is unknown even by the Maidens.

It seems difficult to imagine that FSA is the IW, too many inconsistencies, and the fact that the death of the Knights of Hyrule and the disappearance of the Tower of Winds (which occured at the same time) are more recent events suggests that they are not the Knights from the Imprisoning War.

[SOAP]

Actually they never said when they died, only that were swayed by his darkness while trying to go against him which matches up with the ALttP KoH perfectly. They could have died at any point in history but were probably just recently resurrected as Ganon's minions.

As for no one knowing who Ganon is, Zelda recognizes him as an ancient demon and the White Demon seems to know who he has though she doesn't think there could be a relationship between him and the mortal Ganondorf from their time period.

[Hero of Slime]

No. If you are Hylian, you are part of the race called the Hylia, or Hylians.

I knew that Hylian and Hylia are the same thing. I was saying that perhaps the text was changed to show a connection between Oot and LttP.

[MikePetersSucks]

Where the hell are you getting all THAT!? Go write a fanfic, crazy person. Or, if you want to look at this logically, READ MY POST. Agahnim does NOT say the same thing. He says tribe of evil, and the literal translation is 'magical race' or something like 'demon'.

I never said there was any weight to it. I just thought it was a cool observation.

Don't go nuts. This means nothing to do with Agahnim. Do you really think they had the concept of the Dark Mirror back whent they made ALttP? Do you really think Nintendo would of made such a subtle reference to ALttP in a new game? A reference to a term that was only used once? A reference that isn't even accurate?

They make all sorts of references to LTTP in FSA. And we, as theorists, don't usually care about when the games come out. Look at OOT.

Also, who's this White Demon in FSA? I didn't see this- Is it a plot point, or something you need to look for?

[Fyxe]

I think he may of meant White Maiden. Can't remember if one of them was white or not.

Anyway...

*Looks at OoT*

...

*Stares*

...No, I don't see your point. OoT was released as a prequel to ALttP, and WW is set as a sequel to it.

They never actually make any direct references to any of the events of ALttP. The references you are seeing are references in the same way that the Spritual Stones in OoT were a reference to the Pendants of ALttP.

[Doopliss]

Oh, yes, there was a White Maiden, she accompanies Link to rescue the Red Maiden in the (how is called the place where the Dark Mirror was?).

[Fyxe]

The Dark Temple.

If I remember correctly, none of the Maidens recognised the name Ganon, just Ganondorf.

[Doopliss]

I remember the Red Maiden saying something about Ganon, it was about him stealing the Dark Mirror and creating Shadow Link, but the White Maiden knew only about Ganondorf and she had never heard about Ganon.

[SOAP]

Yeah. White Maiden. I don't know why I said White Demon... I seriously need to get more sleep.

[Fyxe]

No, it was only one of the Knights that confirmed that Ganon created Shadow Link with the Dark Mirror. The Maiden just guessed it might be the case after she saw it was stolen. Or something.

We seriously need a quote FAQ.

[SOAP]

You're right.Now that I think about it, the Maiden says something more she thinking they were chanting ting Ganon... Ganon but then corrected herself and said they were chanting Ganondorf. But where did she get the name Ganon from?

And yes. We need a quote FAQ.

[Fyxe]

No no, I played THAT bit not long ago. The Maiden from the Dark Temple said they were chanting Ganon. Then she said she thought she heard that name before... But no, she had heard the name Ganondorf. But why would they worship a desert nomad? And thus, the quest moves to the Desert of Doubt to discover the truth, and the Knight there reveals that it's true, Ganon did create Shadow Link to trick you into releasing Vaati.

She got the name Ganon from the Deku Scrubs. She hadn't heard it before, but she HAD heard the name Ganondorf.

[Doopliss]

Well, the Deku Scrubs, being "evil" knew who was Ganon and that he had returned. The maiden probably didn't know about him because he was too old, or maybe she just didn't suspect about Ganon's return.

[Showsni]

There aren't really that many similarities between the IW and FSA at all really. What happens to Ganon after FSA, though? Are they going to give us a new game to show him escaping? Or will it be implied somewhere?

Did you notice the reference to AoL in FSA? They use the fairy spell! The best spell in the series.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yeah. White Maiden. I don't know why I said White Demon... I seriously need to get more sleep.

That's because she's a witch. And everyone who practices witchcraft will burn in hell. So sayeth Rauru. *boots the entire Hyrulian Monarchy into hell.* Pwned. *grows bigger.*

What happens to Ganon after FSA, though? Are they going to give us a new game to show him escaping? Or will it be implied somewhere?

I reckon the Four Sword provided a gate to the Sacred Realm, and that ol' Ganon took the sword with em and broke it up with his dark magick. I reckon he got that lil' dark feller to guard the peices while Ganon got that Triforce thang there.

[Zythe]

Or, allowing for less fanwanking and staying true to the LttP BS, the sages took the Four Sword in which Ganon was trapped, and put it in the Four Sword. Ganon breaks one seal, but not the second, plots escape, Four Sword Palace yada yada yada...

[Fyxe]

What Sages?

No Sages in FSA, anyway.

[Hero of Slime]

How would the sages move the Four Sword without releasing Ganon?

[Zythe]

^^ Maidens are from the same bloodline as sages.

^ By picking it up, base included, and chucking it in.

[Crazy Penguin]

^^ Maidens are from the same bloodline as sages.

In LttP yes, but I don't think it was ever mentioned in Four Swords Adventures.

[SOAP]

Or, allowing for less fanwanking and staying true to the LttP BS, the sages took the Four Sword in which Ganon was trapped, and put it in the Four Sword. Ganon breaks one seal, but not the second, plots escape, Four Sword Palace yada yada yada...

They put the Four Sword in the Four Sword?

[Zythe]

^^ Yes, but that means they're still the same thing.

^ Typo. Replace second "Four Sword" with "Sacred Realm".

[SOAP]

Thought so.