295 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

This does beg the question of why people didn't change form like in LttP, but this can also be asked of OoT when Link, Navi, the Sages and Ganondorf enter the Sacred Realm. Perhaps the Moon Gates, opened by the Moon Pearls, prevent the transformation, but that still doesn't explain the non-transformations in OoT.

Because Ganon doesn't have the Triforce then. Some sources say it's the magic of the Triforce that changes people, like a sort of UV radiation. Hell, in LTTP, the Moon Pearl can be overcome if you come in contact with some stray Triforce magic and temporarily turn into a bunny.

[Crazy Penguin]

Some sources say it's the magic of the Triforce that changes people, like a sort of UV radiation.

What sources?

Hell, in LTTP, the Moon Pearl can be overcome if you come in contact with some stray Triforce magic and temporarily turn into a bunny.

Those things are Triforce magic?

[Fyxe]

I'm pretty sure they're just things that disable the Moon Pearl.

[Doopliss]

So the resolution the argument is... "it doesn't really matter because FSA has to after FS anyway"?

Yes, it does matter because it can help to place FS games before or after TWW.

[Zythe]

I was referring to the debate over the length of time between FS and FSA, since it has to go FS->->->HA.

[SOAP]

^ That's the most hilarious thing I've ever hard.

[Zythe]

How's that?

[SOAP]

You mean, you're not laughing? I know I am.

Edit: Actually I'm just being mean. But you say "has to" like it's already fact. At least when I make a claim with little or no proof behind it, I take a step back and tell everyone that it's "just an assumption."

[Zythe]

Well, it can't go HA-FS since that would be playing things backwards. See how that works?

[SOAP]

Oh sorry. I thought you were still babbling about it being centuries apart. THe eextra ">'s" confuzzled me.

[31-Year-Old-From-Georgia]

I think he is, MJ. Although I'm not sure. No one can truly understand Zythe, not even Zythe.

[Zythe]

That was kind of rude.

[31-Year-Old-From-Georgia]

It was a joke.

Seriosuly, though, what was meant with the multiple ">"s? I'm still confused by that.

[Fyxe]

I think he was basically saying 'FS - something something something possibly - FSA'.

Basically he's just saying that, in his view, there's a significant gap of sorts between each game, but they clearly have to go in that order.

[Zythe]

The >'s, was just me trying to create arrows. There was no length of time indicated by the number of >'s used. I just meant FS is followed by HA, no matter how much time is inbetween.

[SOAP]

Okay. Then I'm an ass. Like usual.

[Fyxe]

...Or that.

[Doopliss]

Do you think that the mirror could have caused Ganon to appear in FSA? I mean, he could be the reflection of Ganondorf.

[SOAP]

Hey I never thought of that part.

I also found the Tribe of Darkness line odd too. Didn't Agahnim make a reference to belonging to sucha tribe?

[Vazor]

I'm not sure, but they definitely mentioned something like that in LttP.

[Fyxe]

Ho ho ho... With this, the
seal of the seven sages is
at last broken.
It is now only a matter of time
before evil power covers this
land completely...
After all, the legendary Hero
cannot defeat us, the tribe of
evil, when we are armed with
the Power of Gold.
Ho ho ho... Now, I must go!

So it's tribe of evil, but it's not impossible that the same word was translated as 'tirbe of darkness' in FSA. However, if I remember they use capital letters to refer to it in FSA, so I expect it was a more direct translation, a proper official name for something.

魔族 means something like "magical race", which is something like "demon".

This word is used a few times in ALttP, once by Sahasrahla when referring to the Knights of Hyrule battling Ganon's army of 'demons'. It's then used by Agahnim and is translated as tribe of evil. Sahasrahla later uses it to say that the 'demons' run rampant in the Golden Land meaning it's a 'World of Darkness'.

All the Maidens use it when they talk about the 'clutches of the evil monsters'.

I wonder how it's said in Japanese. Sounds very much like 'Mazoku' from the anime Slayers, which is translated as 'Monster' on some translations of the books and anime, which causes no end of confusion. I doubt it's as specific as in that series though, there doesn't appear to be much noticable difference between 'demons' and monsters.

[MikePetersSucks]

What sources?

Some game guides. And I think some section on Davos' site. Thing is, I know I saw it. I never said it was credible or accurate, but it's a possible answer.

Those things are Triforce magic?

apparently.

Do you think that the mirror could have caused Ganon to appear in FSA? I mean, he could be the reflection of Ganondorf.

I guess that's possible. But then wouldn't Ganon of stopped existing once you reclaimed the Dark Mirror? Unless he's on magical life support from the Trident or something. And he's too intelligent to be a simple dark shade. Frankly, I don't see how the Dark Mirror could've reflected Ganondorf without making two Ganon's for us to deal with in the game.

I also found the Tribe of Darkness line odd too. Didn't Agahnim make a reference to belonging to sucha tribe?

He did. Does that...OH MY GAWD! Now I see why Ganon and Agahnim are counterparts! We know Ganon is really a Gerudo, but he became so evil and used so much evil magic that he became a demon thing. Agahnim could've been a Deku Scrub (XD) and like...I dunno, made a pact with Ganondorf, and got warped into a dark wizard in exchange for becoming Ganon's little puppet. >_> Oh my gawd. All the villains of Hyrule started out as mundane races but got warped by magic. Ganon, Vaati, possibly Agahnim... ooooo.....

[Fyxe]

He did. Does that...OH MY GAWD! Now I see why Ganon and Agahnim are counterparts! We know Ganon is really a Gerudo, but he became so evil and used so much evil magic that he became a demon thing. Agahnim could've been a Deku Scrub (XD) and like...I dunno, made a pact with Ganondorf, and got warped into a dark wizard in exchange for becoming Ganon's little puppet. >_> Oh my gawd. All the villains of Hyrule started out as mundane races but got warped by magic. Ganon, Vaati, possibly Agahnim... ooooo.....

Where the hell are you getting all THAT!? Go write a fanfic, crazy person. Or, if you want to look at this logically, READ MY POST. Agahnim does NOT say the same thing. He says tribe of evil, and the literal translation is 'magical race' or something like 'demon'.

However, Tribe of Darkness is a specific name for something, and I expect it has a completely different name in Japanese.

[SOAP]

Evil. Darkness. Both easily exchangeable nomenclature used to describe the same thing before. Maybe Tribe of Darkness is a reference to something seperate... but then why use a name that would evoke the feeling of "Hey! Doesn't Afganim say something like that."

I think there's a possibility it does mean the same thing. Buit it doesn't mean anything crazy. It could be that the Mirror is how Afgahnim was created. But since Ganondorf was already wicked enouh as it is, Afganhim came out as someone who was seemingly good but still a puppet Ganondorf could use all the same. This may not be Ganon but the ALttP comic even has Afganhim as a beloved priest and an all-around nice guyt. Just the type of guy Ganon could use to win the King's trust only to later stab him in the back quite literally.

[Fyxe]

Because 'tribe of evil' was an exaggerated translation of a word meaning 'magical race' or 'demon', and 'Tribe of Darkness' (notice the use of capital letters) is more likely a direct translation of a proper name for something in particular.

You guys are jumping to conclusions. Seriously, 'tribe of evil' was a very exaggerated translation of a Japanese phrase, and 'Tribe of Darkness' is the proper, specific name for something. The use of capital letters makes me almost certain that it's a very literal translation of the Japanese, while the words in ALttP are not.

Don't go nuts. This means nothing to do with Agahnim. Do you really think they had the concept of the Dark Mirror back whent they made ALttP? Do you really think Nintendo would of made such a subtle reference to ALttP in a new game? A reference to a term that was only used once? A reference that isn't even accurate?

Unless it's the exact same word in Japanese, which I very much doubt, this means absolutely nothing.

[SOAP]

Then why use something so simmilar if that's not what they meant?

[Fatgoron]

Where the hell are you getting all THAT!?  Go write a fanfic, crazy person.  Or, if you want to look at this logically, READ MY POST.  Agahnim does NOT say the same thing.  He says tribe of evil, and the literal translation is 'magical race' or something like 'demon'.

However, Tribe of Darkness is a specific name for something, and I expect it has a completely different name in Japanese.

Maybe it's the vodka, but I'm pretty sure mikepeterssucks is just going crazy during that part of his post, and being funny.

Also, while there were references in-game during the aLttP remake, they have, apparently (since I bought it second hand with no manual) dropped the specific legend of the imprisoning war from the manual in favour of something infinitely more vague. Presumably so it would better fit with OoT. I don't know about the japanese manual though, they might still have the legend of the sealing war in that.

[Fyxe]

Because, hey, 'tribe' is a word for a group of people, and 'evil' and 'darkness' are words used for bad stuff?

So if you have a race of evil beings, why, you could call them a tribe of evil, or of darkness. Or of nastiness. Whatever.

The fact is, the possibility that they were referencing a phrase that wasn't even translated correctly in the first place, and was only used ONCE is very very slim. Remember that it's a single Japanese word that was translated in three different ways in the American version of ALttP (most of the time they just say 'evil monsters'. It's not even a name for something, it's just a word meaning something), and in FSA they have one specific *name* for a group, the Tribe of Darkness. Like 'Gerudo'. It's a name. I highly doubt they could translate a word that literally meant 'demon' and turn it into a specific 'Tribe of Darkness'.

Oh, and in response to Fatgoron's post, I think that was partly because, well, GBA manuals are smaller so they shortened the whole thing as it is (they needed a section on Four Swords too), and partly because the original manual translation was screwy anyway, and partly because the game had most of that story right at the beginning as it is. The Imprisoning War is still talked about, although I'm not sure if it ever gets that specific name in-game.

[SOAP]

Yup, they sure did drop the whole war altogether in the manual. No mentions of a war or any Knights of Hyrule. Just the Sages. But if the changes were meant to better fir with OoT, why change the ambiguous Lord to King?

[Fyxe]

Hold it, hold it. They dropped it in the manual, probably mainly due to space. It's still talked about plenty in the game. It's not like the Knights of Hyrule stopped existing. And 'lord' generally means a very similar thing to 'king' anyway. In fact, if I check the Japanese manual... Yes. He's called a king. Never called a lord anyway. It's the King of Hyrule in both instances.

Also remember that generally, manuals just don't have as much stuff as they used to, because people expect the games themselves to explain the plot anyway. Games never used to even do that, which is why manuals were traditionally longer and more detailed than they are now.