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OoT's Ending


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#91 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 07:51 AM

If you're suggesting it as a way for Ganondorf to be sealed in the past as well as the future, this causes some problems, messing up the timeline for Wind Waker and A Link to the Past. The future events of OoT HAVE to happen, because they are recollected in both WW and ALttP.


Not ALttP, unless you believe the events of OoT are the Imprisoning War. (Let's face it, OoT isn't much of a war is it? Sure, Ganondorf wages war against Hyrule Castle, but that's about it. There isn't some big war to seal him back in and the Master Sword wasn't forged in the events of OoT as a response to Ganondorf as stated in the Legend of the Imprisoning War.

Also, there are no paradoxes. It seems like there are but after looking closely I can't spot any except some possible gameplay-related ones.


Which are still paradoxes that really mess things up.

BTW, would you consider Link returning to the past a paradox? His presence there would inevitably result in a paradox, because, he wouldn't just sit back and let Ganondorf take over and it would seem from the beginning of MM that Ganondorf hasn't really attacked Hyrule or taken it over.

This means that the future events of OoT cannot happen because Ganondorf hasn't taken over Hyrule, which means that Link would never have defeated Ganondorf in the future in the first place, so he wouldn't have memories of his future.

#92 mohammedali

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:17 AM

snip

Preach on Wolf brother. Preach. On.

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#93 Fyxe

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 05:44 PM

No, he doesn't just sit back. Ganon does not attack immediately. If you believe OoT is the Imprisoning War (and it IS, damnit), it is said that it takes time for evil to begin to attack from the tainted Sacred Realm.

Months past, he leaves to search for Navi, ends up in Termina. According to WW, he doesn't return.

We've had this discussion, check the other topic discussing OoT's ending. I won't repeat myself...

Even though I just did. O.o''

#94 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 06:28 PM

Months past, he leaves to search for Navi, ends up in Termina.  According to WW, he doesn't return.


Where in The Wind Waker does it say this?

#95 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 06:42 PM

In the very beginning it says that the hero that brought light to the land dissapeared, and the people thought he would come back, but he didn't. This could be OoT Link leaving to termina and never coming back OR it could symbolize OoT Link leaving from the Adult timeline to the Child timeline if you believe the split timeline.

#96 Fyxe

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 06:57 PM

Except that when he leaves the future, he still retains the Triforce of Courage. So, no, it's nothing to do with Link going back to the past.

Seems to me to be talking about Termina, although I suppose it could happen at anytime when Link leaves Hyrule. The fact that he went to an alternate world seems more likely than anything to split the Triforce of Courage from him, however, and quotes about Tingle's 'origin' within the game imply quite heavily that Majora's Mask happened in the same timeline as Wind Waker, so...

#97 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 07:12 PM

Yeah, and Link didn't return to his childhood by riding on a horse.

#98 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 07:22 PM

Except that when he leaves the future, he still retains the Triforce of Courage.  So, no, it's nothing to do with Link going back to the past.

Seems to me to be talking about Termina, although I suppose it could happen at anytime when Link leaves Hyrule.  The fact that he went to an alternate world seems more likely than anything to split the Triforce of Courage from him, however, and quotes about Tingle's 'origin' within the game imply quite heavily that Majora's Mask happened in the same timeline as Wind Waker, so...

But the Triforce of Courage could have split from Link when he went to the past!

Yeah, and Link didn't return to his childhood by riding on a horse.

That detail could simply be because since the people who were drawing the illustrations didn't know how Link dissapeared, they assumed he left on a horse since that was a common way of transportation in Hyrule. Like if in the real world you were drawing a picture of somebody going from New York to Tokyo, you would draw them on a plane, since that is how we would normally go from New York to Tokyo, not using a magic Ocarina to transport them there!

#99 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 07:29 PM

That detail could simply be because since the people who were drawing the illustrations didn't know how Link dissapeared, they assumed he left on a horse since that was a common way of transportation in Hyrule. Like if in the real world you were drawing a picture of somebody going from New York to Tokyo, you would draw them on a plane, since that is how we would normally go from New York to Tokyo, not using a magic Ocarina to transport them there!


Alternatively it could be because he left Hyrule on a horse at the beginning of Majora's Mask. The simplest explanation is more often than not correct.

#100 Fyxe

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:18 PM

But the Triforce of Courage could have split from Link when he went to the past!


But it didn't. It's on his hand during the ending.

I agree with you about the horse, it's only an inscription, a representation. Although Crazy Penguin is also right, it does connect quite nicely with Majora's Mask.

#101 Hana-Nezumi

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:25 PM

But it didn't.  It's on his hand during the ending.

I agree with you about the horse, it's only an inscription, a representation.  Although Crazy Penguin is also right, it does connect quite nicely with Majora's Mask.

Oh yeah! I forgot about that! I could explain that with my double triforce theory, but it looks like defending split timelines is a lost cause. -_-

#102 Fyxe

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:53 PM

Technically there are two Triforce of Courages, because if Link is sent to the past, then there's also the version of him that's sealed in the Sacred Realm with the Triforce of Courage. But that Triforce of Courage eventually gets sent back to the past with Link anyway, so.

#103 Vazor

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:15 PM

Which is what I believe, more or less. It's really not that big a problem; after all, after OoT is over, there's only one. It's like if you went back in time and met yourself a few years before you went back in time: there would be two of you from the time you went back to up until the time that your younger self goes back. The older self, of course, would continue to exist. So basically it's the "younger" and "older" ToC, if you will, not that they are two seperate entities altogether.

#104 Fyxe

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:19 PM

Exactly what I was trying to get at. It all seems [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] more confusing than it is.

Now, trying to explain the time-travel stuff in Oracle of Ages is a different matter altogether.

#105 Nevermind

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 10:29 PM

This means that the future events of OoT cannot happen because Ganondorf hasn't taken over Hyrule, which means that Link would never have defeated Ganondorf in the future in the first place, so he wouldn't have memories of his future.


Thus, the only thing I can come up with from that is that memories are retained.

Unless, OoT itself is not the imprisoning war, (and Fyxe you can't say it IS, because you simply don't know for sure) but the Imprisoning War comes in where we leave OoT. Now I'm not gonna back this up really well because I don't know how long the Imprisoning War was meant to last.

Let's say it was not much of a war, but it was still a miniature war in its own right. This would enable Link to go back in time (rewind-style, so there's no two Links and crap), then he comes to Zelda, blah blah blah, Imprisoning War happens, Ganon is trapped, Link is still recognised as the 'Hero', which he would be because he's decked up with a ToC, THEN Link goes on into MM, Hero disappears, Yada Yada, WW story is up and running.

The only problem though, which is quite a big one, is that for this to be plausible, the 'War' would have to happen in no more than a year or two. Now, the WW stories never said the Hero was an adult, so nyeh.

#106 Wolf O'Donnell

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 09:30 AM

Of course, none of your hypotheses has addressed the fact that the MS was made in response to the events of the Imprisoning War and not prior to it, whereas in OoT, the Sword seems to have been there for a long time.

#107 mohammedali

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 09:48 AM

Of course, none of your hypotheses has addressed the fact that the MS was made in response to the events of the Imprisoning War and not prior to it, whereas in OoT, the Sword seems to have been there for a long time.

This was again an invention or misinterpretation by the US manuel. In the Japanese version, it is in no way implied that the MS was made during the IW. Infact, if you read it, it goes as far as to say that the sages weren't even sure where the MS was so it must have existed.

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#108 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 01:08 PM

The only problem though, which is quite a big one, is that for this to be plausible, the 'War' would have to happen in no more than a year or two. Now, the WW stories never said the Hero was an adult, so nyeh.


The statue in the castle was of adult Link, and he needed to be an adult to wield the Master Sword as the Hero of Time.

#109 Nevermind

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Posted 10 May 2005 - 08:12 PM

Well, I'm lost then.

Somehow you've got have Link coming back as a child, stopping Ganon and/or saving Hyrule as an ADULT and having the people remember it, meanwhile going to Termina as a child, then either disappearing from then on OR coming back and THEN disappearing.

How it all happens, I simply don't know...

#110 mohammedali

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 11:00 AM

Well, I'm lost then.

Somehow you've got have Link coming back as a child, stopping Ganon and/or saving Hyrule as an ADULT and having the people remember it, meanwhile going to Termina as a child, then either disappearing from then on OR coming back and THEN disappearing.

How it all happens, I simply don't know...

Look at my timeline... All shall become clear... MU HA HA HA HA HA ... Um.... Ha?

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#111 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 06:54 PM

It's simple. Reverse Butterfly Effect ^.^

#112 mohammedali

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 06:58 PM

It's simple. Reverse Butterfly Effect ^.^

care to elaberate on how this resolves the problems? :P

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#113 Nevermind

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 08:17 PM

Hey are there any significant clues relating to OoT's ending in the fact that Link starts off MM with a "Hero's Shield" and "Hero's Sword"?

#114 Vazor

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 09:50 PM

care to elaberate on how this resolves the problems? :Pi

Although the reverse butterfly effect theory of OoT time travel (RBEToOoTTT)is a theory I helped a lot to make sense, I really don't see its relevence to the current debate. The point is that both endings of OoT had to have happened for WW to make sense, which can be solved by the fact that time travel via ocarina is different than the RBEToOoTTT.

#115 Guest_MandragGanon_*

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 11:14 PM

Originally posted by Lazurukeel
Hey are there any significant clues relating to OoT's ending in the fact that Link starts off MM with a "Hero's Shield" and "Hero's Sword"?


No there aren't and Link once again wields the Kokiri Sword in Majora's Mask not the Hero's Sword. Although its completely fanfic, I like to think that Zelda gave Link the Hero's Shield as a farewell gift.

#116 Nevermind

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 11:21 PM

Yeah I noticed just before that it WAS the Kokiri Sword. My bad.

So no one's ever wondered why Link has a different shield, and how he got it, or if it has any connection to the Hero Shield in WW? I mean, obviously SOMEONE's recognised him as a hero.

#117 MK.

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 01:50 AM

The real Reason for the Hero's Shield is so it's not contradictory for the shopkeepers of Terminia to sell a "Hylian Sheld."

You gotta be able to buy a shield if a Like-Like eats it, and, Terminia shop keepers selling shields from Hyrule makes no sense! So, it's just a "quick fix" by the design team of Majora's Mask.

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#118 Nevermind

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 02:04 AM

See, now that makes sense. Good work.

#119 Crazy Penguin

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 07:42 AM

The real Reason for the Hero's Shield is so it's not contradictory for the shopkeepers of Terminia to sell a "Hylian Sheld."

You gotta be able to buy a shield if a Like-Like eats it, and, Terminia shop keepers selling shields from Hyrule makes no sense!  So, it's just a "quick fix" by the design team of Majora's Mask.

-MK


I don't see why that would be a problem, Termina is full of Hylians. I think that they just wanted to give Link a metal shield as opposed to a wooden one, and we already know the Hylian Shield to be too large for child Link to use properly.

#120 Fyxe

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 11:19 AM

I should point out that the Hero's Shield in MM is very different from the Hylian Shield in OoT. Looks similar, but has a different design and is about half the size (meaning young Link can hold it properly).

We don't need to wonder where Link got it, remember he saved Hyrule, he probably had it made for him specially. You may notice that the Kokiri Sword looks slightly different too.




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