126 replies to this topic

[Vazor]

I just had a thought about Ocarina of Time's ending. It was my original theory for OoT's ending, but I had since disregaurded it, but I realized a few minutes ago that it actually may have some significance. It would also allow for both endings to happen without there being a split timeline. I don't know if this has been suggested before, but just go with me on this for a minute.

Just to refresh, at the end of OoT, Link weakens Ganondorf and the sages seal him away in the Sacred Realm. Next, we see Zelda use the ocarina to send Link back in time. Later, we see Link as a child go up to Zelda in the castle courtyard.

Here's my idea: Link knew all that would happen, right? Now, we know that with the time travel used frequently throughout OoT by using the Master Sword, but obviously Zelda's ocarina-time-travel would be different, otherwise she wouldn't have felt the need to do it a different way. My idea is that this time it was Link's actual body in addition to his spirit that Zelda sent back, changed into the form of a child. Suppose she sends Link to the point directly after they met, as suggested by the fact that Zelda is still in the courtyard. He tells her that Ganon will soon escape the Sacred Realm with the ToP, and he tells her to go into hiding and to prepare for when the original Link is awakened in seven years. Meanwhile, the original Link is off in Dodongo's cavern or something, so he won't interfere with this. His work done, Link goes off to find a beloved friend and ends up in Termina. The original Link comes back after collecting the 3 sacred stones and sees Zelda running away from the castle. He falls asleep, and then in seven years he wakes up, seals Ganon, and gets sent back in Time by Zelda, tells her of what is to come, and goes to Termina. The result: an time loop for Link. However, this allows for both endings of Ocarina of Time to co-exist. Here it is written out:

(Events above and below each other happen simultaneously)

Attached Files

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[Vazor]

By escaping I meant him leaving the Sacred Realm after initially entering it. Sorry if that was unclear.

About the other part, remember that the two endings don't happen at the same time. One ending happens in the future. What's to stop the child ending from happening in the past, with the future ending yet to come?

[MikePetersSucks]

Doesnt the whole concept of time travel disallow two of the same thing co-existing with eachother?

No O.o That's stupid. We have lots of books, movies, and cartoons where people meet their future/past selves and interact. It's WHY Time Travel is used half the time. Also, Vazor, if you want a time loop and an explaination, how about Zelda only sends his child mind to the past? Link leaves to Termina so history can take it's course, Ganon does bad stuff, Link may optionally go to other adventures like Soul Calibur 2 if Thou Wisheth, and he returns, takes the Master Sword, gets possessed by his child consciousness, beats Ganon once more so there won't be a paradox, gets sent back, and Adult Link repairs the future or whatever.

[Tri-Enforcer]

I'm getting dumber reading this stuff.

[Vazor]

Also, Vazor, if you want a time loop and an explaination, how about Zelda only sends his child mind to the past? Link leaves to Termina so history can take it's course, Ganon does bad stuff, Link may optionally go to other adventures like Soul Calibur 2 if Thou Wisheth, and he returns, takes the Master Sword, gets possessed by his child consciousness, beats Ganon once more so there won't be a paradox, gets sent back, and Adult Link repairs the future or whatever.

I like that idea, but it doesn't fit as well with the fact that by the time that happened, Zelda would already be gone, and as we all know she was in the courtyard in the OoT ending. So, I say that it was his adult self, just transformed into a child, or something along those lines, and just sent to before Zelda ran away. That way I don't have to fanwank Zelda coming back to the courtyard later.

[Vazor]

Your saying that two Links can co-exist but they cant and second if the Link from the future Link told Zelda what happend, wouldnt she realize her mistake and prevent it from happening?

One, It's not really another Link, it's just the future Link sent back as a child. Past Link would have no idea that it was happening, he'd be off in a dungeon somewhere.
And two, do you think that Zelda would have the time to warn the people that Ganondorf was going to attack? No. She would only have enough time to pack her bags and run away with Impa. She eventually learns how to do the Sheik transformation and waits for Link to wake up to help him. Besides, you're forgetting that she was a little kid when all this happened. Do you honestly think that the little girl would be able to stop Ganondorf from entering the Sacred Realm? The best she could do was run away and save herself for when she would be useful.
This idea is really the only way that the WW prologue can actually take place, seeing as it both speaks of Link defeating Ganon and of him leaving Hyrule. If the future timeline was erased, as I previously believed, then there's no way that he would be remembered and have his own statue in Hyrule Castle. If the timeline split so that WW took place after only the adult ending of OoT, then there's no way Link's leaving Hyrule would be remembered. And, if the timeline split so that WW took place after the child ending of OoT, then just how would Link's victory in the future be remembered if they never happened in that timeline?

[Vazor]

These statements are aimed at Vazor20X6. When Link returns from the future the Door of Time is open. The only way to open the Door of Time is with the three Spiritual Stones and the Ocarina of Time. Link couldn't have returned to the time before he met Zelda.

Not before he met Zelda, but rather shortly after he first met her. Actually, come to think of it, he could have come back any time between their first meeting and when she flees from the castle.

Also in the beginning of Majora's Mask we see Zelda hand Link the Ocarina of Time. How would the Link that had just begun his journey complete his quest? There is only one Ocarina of Time.

Actually, that problem persists in almost any timeline theory, and is not exclusive to mine.

Edit:

When I say she would recorrect hr mistake I mean sending Link to get the spiritual stones if she knows its going to get Ganon into the sacred realm anyway. The point that ruins your whole theory is that we see put the MS back into the pedastool and not him going directly to the palace.

In case you don't remember, I said that Link came back to right after Zelda sent him to get the Spiritual Stones. He and Zelda don't meet again until he sees her fleeing the castle.
And to your second point, Link didn't go back to the past in the end by means of the Master Sword. Zelda sent him back. Therefore, since Link went back to a point before he had the ocarina, the Master Sword would still be in the temple, which is why we see it there in the ending. And...we do see him go to the palace. Or rather, we see him run into the courtyard to see Zelda.

[Fatgoron]

“If you are sent back to a time when you can meet yourself there will an infinite amount of Links running around.”

That would require the link who was sent back, to go through with the events that cause him to be sent back, like in Austin powers.
Thing is Link only goes back once via the method mentioned, so there would be no more than two.

[Nevermind]

Okay dude, you're just complicating this way too much.

The whole idea of Zelda sending Link back in time at the end was to prevent that future from happening as well as give Link his seven years back so he could live them and enjoy them.

On top of that, Ganon can't actually get into the Sacred Realm until Link opens the door of time, grabs the Master Sword, and opens to gateway into the Sacred Realm.

So if they don't get the stones, they don't open the door. They don't open the door, Ganon doesn't get the Triforce. So voila, maybe they find another way to defeat him.

Or maybe them, being special and all, along with Ganon and the sages, are sent back in time whilst being outside of time, their spirits I mean. That way, they go back, the sages are in place, Ganon is trapped, and both Link and Zelda have retain knowledge of the events that could have been/have just happened.

I don't know, but I'm going to assume that a time loop is not the answer because that doesn't seem to solve any problems for them at all, they just keep repeating, and it seems a bit too down-note to me to be Zelda-esque.

I'm also going to assume that they found another way, like the big war that was talked about, I can't remember it's name. The fact is, there just isn't enough evidence to come up with a proper conclusion. So I'm going for the "other way" theory.

[Fatgoron]

On top of that, Ganon can't actually get into the Sacred Realm until Link opens the door of time, grabs the Master Sword, and opens to gateway into the Sacred Realm.

He already has though. We see him exiting through an open Door of Time during the end sequence, so he must have collected the three spiritual stones, and have opened the DoT, by that point. So, Ganondorf must already be in the sacred realm, else he'd meet him on his way out.

[SOAP]

I have two views on this...

Time is linear. Despite how Link (and we the gamers) experienced it, the events
go like this:

-Link gathers stones and pulls out the MS. Ganon follows and claims the Triforce
but it splits on him. Power stays with him and Courage and Wisdom go to Link
and Zelda respectively. Ganon goes into hiding to await his attack on Hyrule.
-Link exits the Temple of Time. Gets some itemes. Goes back. Comes out again.
Does some other stuff. Goes back in. Finally he comes out for the last time and
meets up with Zelda. He has Courage on his hand because he had gotten it
when it split on Ganon.
-Ganon is not heard from for some time. Link and Zelda become good friends.
Link goes a personal quest to look for Navi but gets sidetracked in Termina.
-While Link was away Ganon uses his ToP to take over Hyrule. When Link finally
comes back to Hyrule he finds it has been overthrown. He goes to Temple of
Time to get the Master Sword and is instantly reconnected with his past self
which awakens the Sages and gets Ganon's ass. Ganon is sealed in Sacred
Realm.
-Zelda sends Link's past conciousness back to it's own time. Adult Link regains
normal functions and lives out the rest of his days in Hyrule. He dies and the To
shatters in the process.
-Link is remembered in legends as the boy who traveled through time... though
literally that's not what happened.

My other take would be a timeline split where Link was sent back prior to
drawing the MS and opening the Door of Time. Ganon never gets the triforce bu
that only stalls him for the time being. He goes into hiding since he's obviously
no longer trusted by the Hylians. He finds another means of entering the Sacred
Realm while Link is in Termina. That's when fanfictions comes in to explain how
Ganon was sealed up in this timeline.

Either way it'd seem like history is repeating itself. Though in the former,
technically it happened once for everyone else but Link, who was possesed by
his past self so he probably didn't realize it until later. In the timeline split it
happens twice only in a different way but no one but Link knew it happened in
the other timeline to begin with. And he probably wasn't around to notice then
either.

[Crazy Penguin]

Remember, Link has the Triforce of Courage even after he returns to his childhood - if he had returned to a timeline in which Ganon had never touched the Triforce then this would not be possible. I think we're supposed to assume that Ganon was simultaneously sealed away in both child and adult times when the Sages worked their mojo.

[D~N]

Crazy Penguin is so right. Although let's not just 'assume'. Let's know why. Here's my take. Link does stuff. Link gets 3 stones. Link goes to sleep for 7 years. Wakes up. Gets medalions. Fights ganon. Beats ganon. Seals ganon. Goes back to the past. Simple. Now there's no ganon. Why? because his body is in another dimension. Can't be in two places at once. So there ya' go.

Link goes a personal quest to look for Navi but gets sidetracked in Termina

That's the key. If link did that before he fights ganon, then navi wouln't be at the fight, or in link's future at all, for that matter, because he never found her. I'm not saying this whole 'loop' thing is wrong, but it makes more sence and hurts the nogin less if you just figure he actually went to sleep for 7 years when he should have, and not went to termina etc.

[Crazy Penguin]

Yeah, you'd think if Ganon were still around that Navi wouldn't bugger off and leave Link alone.

Also, can someone edit out that image, it stretches the tables like crazy.

[mohammedali]

CP is so right. Please change that pic as the tread is impossible to read.
Also, the point he made on the theory at hand is true as well. Link has the
ToC and the Goron bracelet suggesting that this is the same Link that
picked up the MS and let Ganon in. There is little denying that unless we
find out that the sacred realm exists in another timezone or something but
even then there is a problem. I mean, why would Link bother falling for
Ganon's trick a second time? Having just been told that trying to get the
Triforce was a dumb idea, why would he go and open it again? it doesn't
make sence.

Mohammed Ali

[SOAP]

Yes! Please! Next time upload the image instaed of hotlinking it. And use acronyms.

[Crazy Penguin]

Yes! Please! Next time upload the image instaed of hotlinking it. And use acronyms.

Letting paragraphs
wrap onto
multiple lines like
this would be an
even bigger help
in the image.

[mohammedali]

Crazy Penguin is so right.  Although let's not just 'assume'.  
Let's know why.  Here's my take.  Link does stuff.  Link gets 3 stones.  Link goes  
to sleep for 7 years.  Wakes up.  Gets medalions.  Fights ganon.  Beats ganon.  
Seals ganon.  Goes back to the past.  Simple.  Now there's no ganon.  Why?  
because his body is in another dimension.  Can't be in two places at once.  So
there ya' go.    That's the key.  If link did that before he fights ganon, then navi  
wouln't be at the fight, or in link's future at all, for that matter, because he never  
found her.  I'm not saying this whole 'loop' thing is wrong, but it makes more
sence and hurts the nogin less if you just figure he actually went to sleep for 7  
years when he should have, and not went to termina etc.

That's not a comprehensive explination as it opens up a whole can of worms
when Link goes back to being a child. All the part up until 'Simple' is INDEED
simple, but it's after this point that things get difficult.
The points you make after this are also flawed, but I won't 'critique' them just yet
as I wan't to give you the chance of suggesting an actual theory that you believe
works. Don't feel obligied to make one though, and given my timeschedule at the
moment, if I do reply, it won't necesseraly be all that comprehensive.

Mohammed Ali

[SOAP]

Letting paragraphs
wrap onto
multiple lines like
this would be an
even bigger help
in the image.

Likewize. I edited my previous post btw.

[Crazy Penguin]

I'm inclined to say that it works much the same as it does in Oracle of Ages.

For those of you who have not played Oracle of Ages then let me explain.

In Oracle of Ages Veran travels 400 years back in time and starts changing
things. The people then start to see the effects of Veran's deeds appear in
their time.

The Black Tower is the best example of this.

Let's say that the starting point of the game, the point at which Veran
warped back in time FROM is point X. Let's say the point 400 years ago
that she warped TO is point A.

Let's say that it took a week for the Black Tower to be built 50m high.
B is one week after A and Y is one week after X.

Over in point X there is no tower, just like there was no tower in point A.
However in point Y the tower is 50m high, just as it was 50m high in point B.

Now let's say it takes another week to build it 200m high.

At point C the tower is 200m high. At point Z the tower is 200 m high, but the
people alive at point Z still remember the tower only being 50m high at point
Y and not being there at all at point X.

Put simply, when Veran travelled back in time it didn't create a new timeline,
nor was the present instantaneously morphed. Instead the present was
slowly being overwritten by her meddling in the past.

I think that what happens at the end of Ocarina of Time is similar to this.
When Link arrives in the past he, Zelda and Ganon still hold their respective
Triforce pieces and Ganon is still trapped in the Sacred Realm, even though
both of those things technically happened in the future (there is no other
reason for how Link could still have his Triforce of Courage, so just suspend
your disbelief and go with it).

From then on there is no timeline split, nor is the future that adult Link lived
out obliterated or instantly morphed, instead it sees the Black Tower/Veran
effect. The people still remember Link defeating Ganon, even though time is
slowly playing catchup and correcting/overwriting itself. When 7 years have
passed in the "child time" and finally caught up with the beginning of the
"adult time" the space time continuum has finally ironed itself out and the
people are left with a strange Deja Vu, in a world where both the events
from adult Link's adventure and child Link's Majora's Mask adventure are
remembered and "count", setting the stage for Wind Waker.

[SOAP]

Something simmilar to that happened on the Frenquency too.
The serial killer is trying to choke the son in the future but the
dad in the past shoots off his hand. Back in the future, the
killer's hand suddenly shrivels up and he looks at his hand
in dismay as if he never seen it like that before. So it is possible
for two histories to exist, at least in the memories of those who
choose to awknowlege both. Since Hyruleans seem to be more
of a supicious people they'd more readily accept the weird
feelings of deja vu as something that happened.

[D~N]

*point up* That, right there, is a great idea. EDIT-->I meant Crazy penguin, but
M.jr's is good too.<--EDIT

That's not a comprehensive explination as it opens up a whole can of worms
when Link goes back to being a child. All the part up until 'Simple' is INDEED  
simple, but it's after this point that things get difficult.
The points you make after this are also flawed, but I won't 'critique' them just yet  
as I wan't to give you the chance of suggesting an actual theory that you believe
works. Don't feel obligied to make one though, and given my timeschedule at the
moment, if I do reply, it won't necesseraly be all that comprehensive.

What's wrong with it?, I see none of the problems it creates. To back up my idea, I
will use this as a supporting fact: When Link goes to the future, he can use all the stuff
he has because gatting those item has already happened. However, when he is a kid,
the items he got as an adult cant be used because he didn't get them yet i.e. it
never happened. Now, when link goes to the future to beat ganon, the sages seal
him (taadaa!) and is gone for a long time. When he goes back to being a kid,
everything re-winds it self back to the point which he arrives at, except for ganon,
being in some other dimmension. Now Link tells everyone what happened (why he runs
up to Zelda) and they remember him as a hero. Is that hard to understand, I know
I didn't explain it well enough, but it will do for now.

[Fatgoron]

Slight problem being the silver gauntlets. While he already has them, hypothetically at least, in the future, he doesn't have them until he goes back in time to get them. Yet, that having happened in the past, he should have them the moment he awakens in the future.