126 replies to this topic

[Nevermind]

He already has though. We see him exiting through an open Door of Time during the end sequence, so he must have collected the three spiritual stones, and have opened the DoT, by that point. So, Ganondorf must already be in the sacred realm, else he'd meet him on his way out.

I'm sorry but I really don't remember a scene at the end in which Ganondorf is exiting an open DoT. The last I remember seeing Ganondorf is where he says "Curse you Link....blah blah......blah blah..." as he is disappearing into white nothing.

[Crazy Penguin]

I think he was talking about Link in that part.

But yeah, Link defeats Ganon, the Sages work their magic and then the last we see of him is him cursing Link and the sages whilst he is floating around in the white void of the Dark World.

[Chaltab]

The White Void of the Dark World? That sounds a bit oxymoronic.

[Nevermind]

Wait I think I do remember Link walking out. And I do remember the doors closing behind him. So if he did come back and close the doors behind him, then it's PROBABLY most likely that he did come back to the same point at which, or some point before, he left. Either way, Ganon either hasn't attacked yet, or he is off chasing Zelda and Impa, in which case he wouldn't meet Link on the way out. My personal thought is that he wasn't sitting there watching Link, hiding behind some pillar or something. I personally think that after failing to chase down Zelda and Impa, he simply came back and found it open. Link was sealed away, the Sacred Realm was his for the taking.

[MikePetersSucks]

This is silly XD Let's look at the ending. Ok, Ganondorf is sealed away, Zelda sends him back in time. Alright then, so now we see Child Link placed the Master Sword BACK IN and the Door of Time closing. This means that Link couldn't of traveled any further back than when he first drew the Master Sword. The Ocarina of Time would normally seem missing, but remember that Link was traveling by consciousness only. This applies to Zelda's method as well, or else she'd be making her problem worse instead of solving it. Link goes to see Zelda, and we see that he has the Triforce of Courage. This works with my earlier statement about the Master Sword, as Ganondorf went in to get the Triforce, thus splitting it, and the Master Sword's replacement effectively sealed him. There we go. So far, our only problem is Zelda. However, we know she has dreams of the future. How did she get word to run from Ganondorf when he came the first time anyway? How did she know he was evil and desired the Triforce? Her dreams. We all know that. She could've had another one of those dreams telling her to return to the Castle. And probably, who knows, this could be when the MM Intro comes in, but that's a whole other story. But did the Timeline split, change, or loop?

If we go with the split theory, we have to deal with the Legend of the Fairy, the Flood, Tingle, and so many other stupid factors.

If we go with the Change theory, we encounter most of the same problems.

But then there's the Loop.

Link meets Zelda, and goes on his quest to Termina. While that's happening, Ganon could be escaping. After All, there's no Sage Seal in place to hold him in the Sacred Realm. All he has to do is find a portal. So anyway, Ganon's conquesting, and time begins repeating itself. Link returns as an adult, and realizing what happened, runs to claim the Master Sword. When he lifts it, time continues the loop by summoning forth his Child Consciousness. The one that didn't go to Termina. So Link does everything all over again, seals Ganon, and the child consciousness gets sent back to the past. So what happens in the future? The Adult Consciousness reclaims his body, and Link, Zelda, and the Sages presumably start with a celebration like the ending shows, and they start rebuilding Hyrule and all that good stuff. Then eventually Ganon will break free for the TWW backstory. BWUANANA

[D~N]

would 2 ocarinas be made every time link goes back in time in majora's mask? I think that the timetravel in MM should be looked into, because it can help here [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img]. Since the two games both use the ocarina to travel, then the same effect should happen in boths games.

[Crazy Penguin]

Going back in time makes two Links

It doesn't.

I think that the timetravel in MM should be looked into, because it can help here [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img].

In Majora's Mask Link essentially rewinds time three days, except he and Tatl retain their memories and Link keeps important items.

[D~N]

But, he uses the ocarina of time AND the song of time, the exact same way zelda sends him back in OoT (I think o.O) so the travel at the end and in MM is the same, and should be looked into, as I said.

[Zythe]

Looked into. No reprucussions... other than the fact that our heads explode thinking of the impossible sciences of time travel. In MM, time just rewinds to when Link arrived in Clock Town so you have no choice but to assume that somehow the Links become one. Magic. OoT can make no multiple Links.

[Crazy Penguin]

But, he uses the ocarina of time AND the song of time, the exact same way zelda sends him back in OoT (I think o.O)  so the travel at the end and in MM is the same, and should be looked into, as I said.

Actually, I think it was Zelda's Lullaby that Zelda played.

[MikePetersSucks]

A. Going back in time makes two Links, why can't it make two Ocarina's?

B. The Sacred Realm is a magickal place. When Adult Link defeats Ganon, and the sages seal him there, the "back in time" thing takes place... Perhaps Ganon's body and soul remained there. So Hyrule was peaceful when Link became young again.

A. No it doesn't. Link is travelling astrally.
B. Again, no. The Sacred Realm is a mirror of Hyrule, and when things change in Hyrule, they change in the Sacred Realm. Thusly, it is bound by time just like Hyrule.

Also, Termina is an alternate dimension, so time and magic can work seperately.

[Kairu Hakubi]

the sacred realm is, if anything, -less- likely to 'work the same way as hyrule magically' than termina. i fully believe you can seal someone in the sacred realm, go back in time, and expect that person to remain sealed.

[Zythe]

LttP showed the LW and the SR are planes. Planes are worlds that overlap eachother, existing in the same physical space, so one world's actions can affect another. MM clearly showed, that Termina was not in the same place as Hyrule, but rather, through some confusing portal-y type thing that led to a mirror world.

[mohammedali]

LttP showed the LW and the SR are planes. Planes are worlds that overlap eachother, existing in the same physical space, so one world's actions can affect another. MM clearly showed, that Termina was not in the same place as Hyrule, but rather, through some confusing portal-y type thing that led to a mirror world.

Zythe is completely right. There is infact a quote in aLttP to back this up. For those that know where it is, you can find it on my Zelda Guide FAQ.

Mohammed Ali

[MikePetersSucks]

Perfect, Zythe ^^ not even Sage magic can transcend time. If the Triforce doesn't, why should they?

[Crazy Penguin]

Perfect, Zythe ^^ not even Sage magic can transcend time. If the Triforce doesn't, why should they?

Link had the Triforce of Courage with him when he returned to his childhood though.

[Vazor]

That's the primary reason I believe that the Link in the end sequence is actually future Link turned into a child and actually sent back in time, rather than simply another MS-spirit-travel. This is supported by both the fact that he has the ToC at the end of OoT and the fact that he can use certain items by the time of MM.

[Crazy Penguin]

That's the primary reason I believe that the Link in the end sequence is actually future Link turned into a child and actually sent back in time, rather than simply another MS-spirit-travel.  This is supported by both the fact that he has the ToC at the end of OoT and the fact that he can use certain items by the time of MM.

Elaborate please, I don't see how what I think you're suggesting makes sense.

[Vazor]

Link's time travel via Zelda's ocarina was different than that which happened when Link touched the MS. After Ganon was sealed away in the future, Zelda sent Link himself (body and all, not just spirit) back to the child era, and one of the effects of this time travel was that Link's body would transform into that of his child self (remember, Zelda sends him back to make up for his lost time). Otherwise, there's really no way that Link could possibly still have the ToC at the end of OoT.

[Nevermind]

How about instead of Link jumping from one time to another, time instantly fastforwards, or rewinds.

Example. Link pulls out the Master Sword. He goes into the Sacred Realm, times goes by really super fast, he comes back into Hyrule as if it was instantaneous, and vice-versa.

So with this in mind, when swapping between the two times, every action that has occured is either repeated, or undone, depending on which direction one is travelling.

With this also in mind, let's remember that Ganon was sealed away inside the Sacred Realm, however he was inside a void that was inside the Sacred Realm. Now this is the part where this theory relies on assumptions; the assumption that this void in which Ganon is sealed is outside of time. Therefore Ganon, being inside the void, is not affected by things that happen in either Hyrule or the Sacred Realm, because he is sealed away from both. Thus, if Ganon becomes sealed inside the void, then time is turned backwards, it does not affect Ganon. He remains inside the void, whilst everyone else is taken backwards, their actions being undone as time turns backwards. Everything that has happened because of Ganon's actions is undone because they are still in either Hyrule or SR and are subject to time.

So to sum up: if Zelda sends Link back, everything gets undone up to the moment that time stops turning backwards. Ganon is outside of time, having been sealed inside the void, and everything he does gets undone, but he does not return to the past, therefore the future he created cannot happen, and as far as the people of that time would know, he just disappeared in thin air. That way, Link can go off and do his Majora's Mask stuff, and the tale we hear about in TWW can follow through. Diagram included for any confusions in my explanation:



I dunno what all of you consider to be the correct timeline or whatever, but I'm not about to debate that. All I'm saying is that if Ganon's void is outside of time, and time gets turned back, then he disappears, and everything he did is undone.

You don't have to agree, hell, it doesn't even have to make sense to you, but this theory helps me wrap my head around the whole time travel concept and the resulting paradoxes. Makes sense to me, so I'm sticking to it myself.

[Crazy Penguin]

Link's time travel via Zelda's ocarina was different than that which happened when Link touched the MS.  After Ganon was sealed away in the future, Zelda sent Link himself (body and all, not just spirit) back to the child era, and one of the effects of this time travel was that Link's body would transform into that of his child self (remember, Zelda sends him back to make up for his lost time).  Otherwise, there's really no way that Link could possibly still have the ToC at the end of OoT.

If that happened then there would be two Links and two Triforces of Courage at the same time.

[D~N]

Laz., thats EXACTLY WHAT I THINK, but more science-y and explained better.
<_< *grumbles* you stole my idea *grumbles* ....................... j/k but, yes I totaly agree 105%, that is what happens, it makes so much sence too, and I thank you for giving it an explination.

[Vazor]

If that happened then there would be two Links and two Triforces of Courage at the same time.

I know it's kind of messy, but that woudldn't really matter, because under this concepts there would only be two ToC's for the seven years, and after that the future one would become the past one and the time loop would continue. After it's looped back to the child era, the whole Link-goes-to-Termina-ToC-splits-up thing happens. This would set up the stage perfectly for WW.

[Crazy Penguin]

I know it's kind of messy, but that woudldn't really matter, because under this concepts there would only be two ToC's for the seven years, and after that the future one would become the past one and the time loop would continue.  After it's looped back to the child era, the whole Link-goes-to-Termina-ToC-splits-up thing happens.  This would set up the stage perfectly for WW.

How can there be another loop after the ending? The Master Sword was laid to rest and the Door of Time was closed.

Now it is time for me to make up  
for my mistakes...
You must lay the Master Sword to  
rest and close the Door of Time...

However, by doing this, the road
between times will be closed...

Link,
give the Ocarina to me...
As a Sage, I can return you
to your original time with it.

[Showsni]

Lazurukeel's theory actually makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't explain why Link was regarded as such a great hero in TWW. From the point of view of the people, by his theory, Ganon will just disappear at the exact moment Link is last returned to. No one will realise that Link is a hero.

[Vazor]

How can there be another loop after the ending? The Master Sword was laid to rest and the Door of Time was closed.

Another loop? I'm only suggesting one...not to mention that we don't actually see Link put the MS back in the pedestal, so it could very well already have been there, as the original Link would not yet have reached there. And about the Door of Time being closed: he had part of the Triforce. I'm pretty sure that would nullify any sage-made seal. Just an idea.

[Nevermind]

Lazurukeel's theory actually makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't explain why Link was regarded as such a great hero in TWW. From the point of view of the people, by his theory, Ganon will just disappear at the exact moment Link is last returned to. No one will realise that Link is a hero.

Yeah actually I didn't think of that bit. Maybe he was considered a hero because [insert theory here].


Lol, yeah....I got nothin...


The ONLY possible explanation I could create for that would be that it was not only Link and Zelda and the Sages who retained their consciousness and memories of that alternate future. That theory would piss [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of people off, but it's the best I can come up with without digging further.

[MikePetersSucks]

Why would the Sacred Realm be outside the flow of time? That's ridiculous, as then nothing could happen in the Sacred Realm at all and it couldn't be Hyrule's mirror -.-

Link had the Triforce of Courage with him when he returned to his childhood though.

Yea, maybe, since Ganon went into the Sacred Realm when Link first lifted the Master Sword, he like...oh my god, touched the Triforce!! >. not hard, you guys.

he had part of the Triforce. I'm pretty sure that would nullify any sage-made seal. Just an idea.

So did Zelda, and she helped to make the Seal. I'm sure a Triforce peice < a Sage-buffed Triforce peice