150 replies to this topic

[Khuffie]

And understand where rap comes from. A Death Row inmate said it like this. To think of the origins of hip hop in this culture, you have to understand the world of the struggle in America. The gritty roots of hip hop arises from a generation that feels, with some justice might I add, that they have been betrayed by those who came before them. That they are, at best, tolerated in school; feared in the streets; and almost inevitably destined for the heralds of prison. They grew up hungry, hated, and unloved. THIS is the psychic fuel that generates the anger that seems endemic in much of the music and poetry. They sense very little hope above the personal goals of wealth to climb above the pit of poverty.

That's like saying "I killed them because video games made me do it." They're hated and unloved? Maybe they should stop being 'gansgta'. Feared in the streets? Maybe kids shouldn't be hanging out in the streets. Destined for prison? Maybe they should stop living a life of crime. They've been betrayed by those before them? How? They're dead. Live you're own damned life. Don't put the blame on others. Sure, you may have it toughter than Paris Hilton, or others, but a gang makes a conscious decision to be a gang. And they make a conscious decision to be hostile towards other gangs. And the cycle continues.

[thabto81]

^Not all rappers are gangsters despite the topic of material they choose to display.

[Wanchimaera]

The rappers don't have to be gangsters. People like to emulate what they see on TV or what their favorite "artist" is doing, going, or wearing. This also applies to actors.

[Coltxdoom]

rap is:

Badly put together poetry strung to what may be considered a beat by tone-deaf children of this Generation.

[Vazor]

Once upon a time, a man decided that he wanted to be a singer, but he discovered that he had no talent. So, he decided that if he talked fast enough, nobody would notice. Lo and behold, rap was born.

Rap does not qualify as music under any circumnstances. Some say "Oh, parts of it have singing in them!", but that's not the part that people remember. They remember the part where some guy was stringing together 27 curses into one sentence and calling it poetry.

It's also not a positive influence. In the school I go to, probably 50% of the kids are suburban white guys who wear "gangsta" clothes and curse every three seconds to make themselves sound cool. Listening to psuedo-music like rap has made them believe that the right way to live is to insult everyone who doesn't fit into your view of "cool," to demean and use women, and to commit violent acts. It has destroyed my generation.

I'm not even getting into the fact that rap "music" sucks. Honestly, everything music-related that's out today is in no way pleasing to the ears and promotes the "gangsta" image without providing good rhythms and melodies (the only good music that's still out there is Green Day, and even they're on their way to crap). Seriously, if you want to listen to music I suggest you go out and buy a CD called "Led Zeppelin IV." It may seem strange at first, but you will find that there actually used to be a thing called music in this world.

[Alakhriveion]

Yes indeed! The same is tru of this "Rocking and Rolling" music, which leads youngsters away from church and in to a life of SIN and DRUGS, or worse, voting Democratic! (I... I suppose they could go Green, but I simply can't stomach the thought.)

Can you rap? No. Don't question the talent of people involved. You can say you don't like it, but it does take more skill than you can imagine. (This does not include popular anything. A pox on commercial music.)

[Vazor]

One of my personal abilites is improv-acting. So yes, I can rhyme at a moment's notice.

All mainstream rap is is a bunch of losers screaming about why the fact that they grew up on the streets is an excuse to kill people and rape women.

And don't insult real rock. I'm not talking about this new Punk-Pop crap like Good Charolet and whatnot, I'm talking Zeppelin, Stones, Floyd, Sabbath. Rock never did anything wrong until victims of rap poisoning decided to portray horrible themes through the otherwise greatest form of entertainment.

[Alakhriveion]

All mainstream rap is is a bunch of losers screaming about why the fact that they grew up on the streets is an excuse to kill people and rape women.

Wow, have you ever even listened to rap? Turn of the O'Rielly, dude.

One of my personal abilites is improv-acting. So yes, I can rhyme at a moment's notice.

That's easy. Is it meaningful?

And don't insult real rock. I'm not talking about this new Punk-Pop crap like Good Charolet and whatnot, I'm talking Zeppelin, Stones, Floyd, Sabbath. Rock never did anything wrong until victims of rap poisoning decided to portray horrible themes through the otherwise greatest form of entertainment.

Why not? I can talk trash about your inane, messageless, masturbatory genre as much as I like.

[Vazor]

First off, don't knock O'Reilly. He actually makes sense, as opposed to the leftists who run the media.

And rap...meaningful? Don't make me laugh. OK, you might be able to find two, heck I'll give you ten, rap "songs" that have a deeper meaning, but the fact is that the stuff that is actually listened to has none of that. Nada.

And rock, messageless? It has a lot of messages if you've ever bothered to listen (and before you start making things up, I have listened to rap. It sucks.). Plenety of rock has meaning to it. Maybe a lot of it is meaningless, but at least it's music, which is a hell of a lot more more than you can say about rap.

[Alakhriveion]

First off, don't knock O'Reilly. He actually makes sense, as opposed to the leftists who run the media.

Oh, yes, the infamous liberal media: Because the five corporations who run the media feel no need to protect their own existance. Is that why Conservatives always get more endorsements than liberals?

And rap...meaningful? Don't make me laugh. OK, you might be able to find two, heck I'll give you ten, rap "songs" that have a deeper meaning, but the fact is that the stuff that is actually listened to has none of that. Nada.

No, that's absolutely true. It's amazing, but there's an entire genre of music, which has been dominant for twenty years, which consists of nothing but babbling.

And rock, messageless? It has a lot of messages if you've ever bothered to listen (and before you start making things up, I have listened to rap. It sucks.). Plenety of rock has meaning to it. Maybe a lot of it is meaningless, but at least it's music, which is a hell of a lot more more than you can say about rap.

The whole thing is lost on you, isn't it? The hell with this. I'm out.

[Vazor]

Aw, don't quit, that ruins the fun!

And no matter what anyone may say about meaning or whatnot, rap is still not music. Music comprises of rhythm and pitch, and rap only has rhythm, substituting for pitch excess cursing.

[Goose]

Tag team, your out, I'm in. He will understand before the day is out.

It may take you a while Vazor, but read the whole thread. I started this thread about 2 weeks back, and once it got long enough, people stopped reading what it was about and just read the last few posts.

One thing i know this is NOT about, is the American Media. Use your own damn topic for that.

I'm quoting myself here, because I think I need to.

****Quote ***
Music/art/writing is all one thing, a person creating a message and releasing it in different ways. People may interpret that message differently, and come up with something completely different.

Example

We, on this forum, write to get our messages across. Its a basic form of communication that we can all identify with. Other people however, do things differently. They communicate through their art, it doesn't matter how old or new it is, its still a message that they were trying to get across. Its wether we understand that message is what counts. Other people do this through music.

There is a song I heard last night, it was by Bob Dylan. It was probably the most poerful song i have ever heard. It was about the paper pushers that send the young men in to war and die, while they stay at home in their nice comfy houses. Bob Dylan is one of the masters of his art, and his message was being blunt, yet he got his message across.

Rap is just another way of getting that message across. So is rock, so is farting on a piece of paper and then hanging it up in an art gallery. The quality of the message has nothing to do with the medium used to get it across, just the person delivering it.

Art is just that, a person trying to get a message across. Which is communication, and the degree I shall be starting to study in two weeks.

**** End Quote****

[Vazor]

For your information, I actually did read this thread all the way through before I posted. It would've been stupid not to.

And I'm not saying rap isn't a form of expression, I'm saying that it's not music. And that it sucks.

[Goose]

If you did so, then you would have seen the definition of music that somebody posted. ANdyou also would have seen that Rap falls under that definition andtherefor is music.

[Vazor]

I read that post and it only said that rap got a three out of four. That doesn't constitute music in my book.

If it smells like a horse, sounds like a horse, looks like a horse, but is genetically half-donkey, then it's not a horse. It's a mule.

[Oberon Storm]

Music as defined by dictionary.com is "The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre."

Let's see, Melody is (again, defined by dictionary.com):
1. A rhythmically organized sequence of single tones so related to one another as to make up a particular phrase or idea.
2. Structure with respect to the arrangement of single notes in succession.
3. The leading part or the air in a composition with accompaniment.
4. A poem suitable for setting to music or singing.

By golly, rap has that! Let's explore deeper.

Harmony (defined by dictionary.com) is:
1. The study of the structure, progression, and relation of chords.
2. Simultaneous combination of notes in a chord.
3. The structure of a work or passage as considered from the point of view of its chordal characteristics and relationships.
4. A combination of sounds considered pleasing to the ear.

Hmm...rap has that too...

Rhythm (defined by dictionary.com):
1. The pattern of musical movement through time.
2. A specific kind of such a pattern, formed by a series of notes differing in duration and stress: a waltz rhythm.
3. A group of instruments supplying the rhythm in a band.
4. The pattern or flow of sound created by the arrangement of stressed and unstressed syllables in accentual verse or of long and short syllables in quantitative verse.
5. The similar but less formal sequence of sounds in prose.

So far 3 out of 4...let's try this last one. Timbre (as defined again by dictionary.com) is:
The combination of qualities of a sound that distinguishes it from other sounds of the same pitch and volume.

Well, I can definitely tell when rap comes on the radio. Hmm...apparently rap IS music. What a suprise... and if you still disagree, it looks like it's an issue you'll have to take up with Wesbter or someone.

Read again. Rap met all four qualifications. Rap is music. Just because you do not personally like it does not give you the right to degrade it. Afterall I could say Floyd sucks, and that all his music is drug induced hogshit.

I also tired of the "demeaning women" bullshit. Have you heard what mainstream female rappers rap about? They do the same thing with men. Rap isn't about anyhting you have said it is. All you comment have told me you are ignorant. You know nothing of rap.

[Eric]

Is Rap music really that bad?

Rap music isn't bad at all. In the long-run, it's music. To think that Rap music is bad is absolutely moronic. In the future, there'll be new types of music, and people will think the exact same things. It's been like this as music developed, and it'll stay that way.

Does it give African Americans a stereotype they think they have to live up to?

What're you talking about? That they have to develop new types of music as white people begin to move in on it? This is sort of a vague question. I understand the stereotypes well enough, but there's not enough detail in this question to warrant my opinion.

Does it have a tune?

You can tune a piano, but you can't tune a fish.

On a more serious note, this depends on your viewpoint. There's [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] in Rap that's similar, just slowed down, or sped up. It's that way with nearly every type of music. To say it's not is, you guessed it, ignorant. On occasion, you'll hear something new. Then it's a good idea to bet the farm on it, because every other rapper will use the same technique.

Is the devil sending evil messages through it?

Does the Devil even exist? Even then, 'devil' is pretty vague. If anyone's sending messages through it, it's the rappers. If that's the case, then does that mean rappers are the devil? See question 1.

Is it really music?

This is similar to the 'Does it have a tune?' question. If it's on a radio station, chances are pretty good that it's some type of music. If they're put on CD's, it's a good chance that it's music, if it's not software. Get what i'm aiming at here?

Are people just sourpusses because they dont like new fangled music? Example, Rock and or Roll was once considered Evil, but basically because it was a new style of music.

The last generation thinks 'rap is crap'. This generation thinks Rap is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The minute new music comes out, we'll be just like the last generation. We'll be sourpusses, because it's new fangled music. This will go on until the human race is extinct, the sun explodes, or if Jesus actually decides to end his two thousand and five year vacation (and counting!) to save all of our souls. So far, it's lookin' kinda grim on the last prospect.

That's just my opinion. I figured i'd toss it out there, not to start any arguements or offend anyone (though I may have.. if that's the case.. oops!).

[Goose]

Dont worry, i doubt you offended anybody. I'm glad somebody got my point at last.

[Vazor]

If everyone in my generation thinks that it's so great, then why don't I?

And about what Son of Jur-el said, you can not honestly say that rap has melody. Or harmony for that matter. The notes achieved by rap "artists" are purely accidental and come from the natural vibrations in the voice box (ie: when you ask a question, your voice's pitch raises). And technically, every noise has its own timbre, so that doesn't count...

So the only musical attribute that can be heard in rap is rhythm.

[Korhend]

If everyone in my generation thinks that it's so great, then why don't I?

By that logic, I can argue that anything in existance sucks, because there is somewhere someone who doesn't like it.

Or harmony for that matter.

Do you even know what harmony is?

The notes achieved by rap "artists" are purely accidental and come from the natural vibrations in the voice box (ie: when you ask a question, your voice's pitch raises).

Wow...just wow. Where should I attack this? You do realise it takes immense voice control to hit notes properly right?

[Eric]

If everyone in my generation thinks that it's so great, then why don't I?

I meant it in a majority sense. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the majority of our generation doesn't. Don't let yourself fall into that trap, because once you're in, you'll have [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of trouble getting back out.

Being, you think everyone thinks the same way you do. It's quite tragic.

By that logic, I can argue that anything in existance sucks, because there is somewhere someone who doesn't like it.

Yup. I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

[Toan]

If everyone in my generation thinks that it's so great, then why don't I?

And about what Son of Jur-el said, you can not honestly say that rap has melody.  Or harmony for that matter.  The notes achieved by rap "artists" are purely accidental and come from the natural vibrations in the voice box (ie: when you ask a question, your voice's pitch raises).  And technically, every noise has its own timbre, so that doesn't count...

So the only musical attribute that can be heard in rap is rhythm.

You've read my definition that Jor-El graciously quoted, stating that rap by definition is music, and you still refuse to believe it, eh?

Well, if it's so accidental, let's hear you do it, shall we? Tell ya what, record yourself rapping...ohh, let's see... "Disturbing the Peace" by Shawna, Twista, and Ludacris. Convert it to an mp3, I can host it for ya somewhere. I mean, if it's so accidental, so easy, this isn't much to ask for at all now is it?

[Chukchi Husky]

The notes achieved by rap "artists" are purely accidental and come from the natural vibrations in the voice box (ie: when you ask a question, your voice's pitch raises).

Does that mean that rappers from different parts of the world would sound different when rapping because of their accents (how their voice naturally changes pitch in a sentence)?

[Oberon Storm]

Well, if it's so accidental, let's hear you do it, shall we? Tell ya what, record yourself rapping...ohh, let's see... "Disturbing the Peace" by Shawna, Twista, and Ludacris. Convert it to an mp3, I can host it for ya somewhere. I mean, if it's so accidental, so easy, this isn't much to ask for at all now is it?

Got to make it a bit more challenging. How about free style?

[Eric]

Got to make it a bit more challenging. How about free style?

I'd like to hear that, myself. Would be good for a laugh.

[Korhend]

well if he claims it requires no skill to match the pitch of notes, then he should have no problem doing so.

[Korhend]

The notes achieved by rap "artists" are purely accidental and come from the natural vibrations in the voice box

by this logic of his, its impossible to sing out of key. Because "Natural vibrations of the voice box" cannot be contributed to the artist and people can be on key all the time purely by accident, he should have no trouble being on key on purpose.