150 replies to this topic

[Oberon Storm]

I'm not Clark anyway. I'm the other son of Jor-El. Anyway, I don't count "Lose Yourself". It was inspired by 8 Mile.

I would also suggets getting past the language.

[arunma]

And Marlyn Manson is not a Satanist.

Uh, yeah he is. Go to this site:

http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu...m/churchof.html

It describes many things about the "church" of Satan, and it specifically states that Marilyn Manson is a member and a priest.

His father was a preacher for crying out loud. He is a Babtist.

Who's the Baptist, Marilyn Manson, or his father? Just because you're parents belong to a religion doesn't automatically mean that you are also a member of that religion. If you're juding Manson by his father's religion, then he's as much of a Baptist as I am a Hindu.

I am a Baptist, so I hope that Marilyn Manson has severed all ties with his old Baptist church, because we don't want him. I don't know who told you that this guy isn't a devil-worshiper. But he is an avowed Satanist, and an enemy of Christianity.

And in our eyes, he is a son of hell.

[Oberon Storm]

OK. You got me on the Babtist part. But he isn't a "son of hell". What do you know of the Church of Satan? Anything?

1. Stupidity
2. Pretentiousness
3. Solopsism
4. Self Deceit
5. Herd Conformity
6. Lack of Perspective
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8. Counterproductive Pride
9. Lack of Aesthetics

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

I know some of either group some might not agree with. But a lot makes sense. What in there makes Marilyn Manson a "son of hell"? And who are you to judge him?

Sammy Davis Jr. is also thought to have ties with the Church of Satan. Marilyn Monroe, too. Are they "sons of hell"?

.

[Goose]

It describes many things about the "church" of Satan, and it specifically states that Marilyn Manson is a member and a priest.

Actually after reading through the site, it only states that he has been a member, not a priest. And the referance for that point is rather weak.

By the way, who are you to judge him? Sure, i dont like him, but that doesn't mean i cast him down as a "Son of Hell"

If its because he is of a different religion, wouldn't your father also be a "Son of Hell." (no offence meant to your father) Its just that you cant have double standards.

Also, the only entity that could ever judge anybody as a Son of Hell is God, not you.

[Khuffie]

Enough about Marilyn Manson. If he's mentioned again, or if I hear any mention about anyone being the 'Son of Hell' I'll close this thread. K'apiche?

And this topic would have been far better if it was simply titled "Rap Music - Good or Bad?", instead of asking if it's the devil's music and immediately turning it into another religious debate. Whoever approved it could have edited the title.

And Toan, it's hard to take Ludacris seriously with a name like Ludacris. Or the fact that his album is called 'The Red Light District', basically promoting prostitution. Or when he talks about how cool he is. Or his rides. Or his bling bling. Or his jewelry.

Almost all rap music is fucking pile of shit. Why the fuck do I want to listen to some idiotic asshole talking about how cool he is, how thug he is, how 'gangsta' he is, how pimp he is, how much sex he gets, all the hot chicks he has, all the parties he's in, all his bling bling, his crib, his rides, his cock, and other random stuff that involves sex, money, drugs and gangs.

[Toan]

But that's just the thing, Khuffie, you aren't supposed to take him seriously. He's just as his name says; he's Ludacris. Besides, if anyone took every rapper seriously then he would have some major issues as it is. It's only for entertainment and Ludacris's job, and that's it really.

And hey, you have your opinions and I have mine. That's what makes us different. I'm sure we have other different opinions on things (like how I..pretty much hate anything that could be remotely considered "country" music...stupid shit.), but if we let tiny things like preference in music get between each other (this goes towards everyone) than we are totally overlooking the possiblity of a potentional friendship, or the spoilage of a former one. It's sad to imagine that things like that actually happen...

[Alakhriveion]

I can't stand Eminem... but whatever.

SoJE, youn mentioned Li'l Jon. I really don't think he's serious. At least, I hope he's not.

[Archaic Sage]

And Toan, it's hard to take Ludacris seriously with a name like Ludacris. Or the fact that his album is called 'The Red Light District', basically promoting prostitution. Or when he talks about how cool he is. Or his rides. Or his bling bling. Or his jewelry.

Almost all rap music is fucking pile of shit. Why the fuck do I want to listen to some idiotic asshole talking about how cool he is, how thug he is, how 'gangsta' he is, how pimp he is, how much sex he gets, all the hot chicks he has, all the parties he's in, all his bling bling, his crib, his rides, his cock, and other random stuff that involves sex, money, drugs and gangs.

I have to agree with Khuffie here. I hate rap music, I don't like to accept it as real music, but then again, certain songs from rap are actually sung. Not someone mumbling about whatever.

But each to their own.

[Alakhriveion]

And this topic would have been far better if it was simply titled "Rap Music - Good or Bad?", instead of asking if it's the devil's music and immediately turning it into another religious debate. Whoever approved it could have edited the title.

Uh... yeah. Man, Ican't wiat 'til I find out who screwed this one up... I suggest you start looking into everyone. Except me. Because I didn't do anything. Really.

Almost all rap music is fucking pile of shit. Why the fuck do I want to listen to some idiotic asshole talking about how cool he is, how thug he is, how 'gangsta' he is, how pimp he is, how much sex he gets, all the hot chicks he has, all the parties he's in, all his bling bling, his crib, his rides, his cock, and other random stuff that involves sex, money, drugs and gangs.

The same is true of everything... ever. What form of media isn't 90% "My genes are supirior! Mate with me!" Heck, name ANYTHING that isn't about attracting females and intimidating other males. Can you think of a better reason for all of feeling compelled to argue about the legitimacy of rap?

[Wanchimaera]

Quote of the day:

"I hate rap music, which to me sounds like a bunch of angry men shouting, possibly because the person who was supposed to provide the melody never showed up."
- Dave Barry

[thabto81]

Out of respect for the mods on this board I will refrain from engaging in the theological attacks arunma seems intent on polluting this board with.

By the way, you identified the issue I have with rap by claiming that it promotes the stereotype that blacks live in a dysfunctional society. Yes, other forms of "art" have done this as well. That's why my issue isn't with rap, but with all forms of art that support these things.

There's your problem right there, arunma. Art does not support society. It reflects society. There is a difference.

When it comes to music, I am very open minded. I like pretty much every genre to an extent (except country, I can't stand it! I'll admit i is music, but I just don't like it...probably because I've lived in Georgia my whole life and I've had enough of it).

I know what you mean there my friend. However, if I may, you might want to try some stuff by Lyle Lovett. I know! It sounds crazy, but seriously, he's not that bad.

I'd go with HouseofHoly and call it poetry, but not music. There isn't much musical about it.

Except for that thumping music supplying the beat.

and satanists are like jews worshiping hitler

Ever seen a movie called "The Believer"?

Almost all rap music is fucking pile of shit. Why the fuck do I want to listen to some idiotic asshole talking about how cool he is, how thug he is, how 'gangsta' he is, how pimp he is, how much sex he gets, all the hot chicks he has, all the parties he's in, all his bling bling, his crib, his rides, his cock, and other random stuff that involves sex, money, drugs and gangs.

Just because a certain type of rap music (gangsta rap) is popular right now doesn't mean that genre is the majority of all rap music out there. That's like saying all Hollywood films are crap because of the action movies they produce. The action movies do tend to be pushed on us more than the comedies or dramas. That still doesn't mean those action movies consist of a majority of all Hollywood films.

[Khuffie]

Just because a certain type of rap music (gangsta rap) is popular right now doesn't mean that genre is the majority of all rap music out there. That's like saying all Hollywood films are crap because of the action movies they produce. The action movies do tend to be pushed on us more than the comedies or dramas. That still doesn't mean those action movies consist of a majority of all Hollywood films.

Look at mainstream rap. The popular stuff that makes it into the hit list, the radio stations and the music channels. Apart from Will Smith, I can't think of any rapper who doesn't cuss in virtually every song, doesn't talk about hoes, drugs, partying, bling bling and thugs.

And your comparison is moot. It would have worked if I was making claims that all music is crap and putting it all under the rap genre.

Oh. And I wouldn't call any form of popular music 'art'. Especially not rap music and pop-Britney Spears like music.

[Alakhriveion]

Really, though, everything is like that, MTV or CNN. Rap is just more direct.

[Goose]

But Khuffie, there are good forms of Rap, read the whole damn thread before you go on condeming an entire genre of music into the depths of hell. Mainstream anything is crap, just put there because the media wants to make money. Read the whole thread before you say anything, not just the 2nd page.

(Hopes his asumption is right tha tkhuffie has only read the 2nd page, or he is in shit.)

[Korhend]

OK. You got me on the Babtist part. But he isn't a "son of hell". What do you know of the Church of Satan? Anything

It plagurized Ayn Rand.

[Toan]

What did Khuffie say, guys? C'mon, let's not get this locked because it's turning religious again.

[thabto81]

Look at mainstream rap. The popular stuff that makes it into the hit list, the radio stations and the music channels. Apart from Will Smith, I can't think of any rapper who doesn't cuss in virtually every song, doesn't talk about hoes, drugs, partying, bling bling and thugs.

Again, you're assuming that mainstream rap makes up the bulk of all rap music out there. It does not. Just take a look at Jurassic 5, Black Eyed Peas, Faithless and (the oldie but goodie) Us3. There may be a few curse words that sneak in to songs by J5 of the Peas but it is no way gratuitous. Oh yeah, and don't forget MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice. They didn't curse. Well, in their early stuff anyway.

And your comparison is moot. It would have worked if I was making claims that all music is crap and putting it all under the rap genre.

Perhaps you misunderstood my analogy. Hollywood does not make the majority of films in the world. They make the majority of what is commonly known as Hollywood films (aka Forumla films). My analogy is valid because of the type of movies Hollywood is known for.

Oh. And I wouldn't call any form of popular music 'art'. Especially not rap music and pop-Britney Spears like music.

Since when is only good music allowed to be called art? It was my understanding that you could have bad art as well.

i have not seen a movie called "the believer". fill me in, i'm always up for a laugh... satanism makes sense. BAHAHAHAHA.

Check out the summary.

[Alakhriveion]

Don't double post. The consequences will be dire and non-specific.

[Khuffie]

Black Eyed Peas

You're counting black eyed peas? Hey hot mama and Fergie shaking her ass? That's what they're down to now

Since when is only good music allowed to be called art? It was my understanding that you could have bad art as well.

Art requires intelligence. It encourages thought and contemplation, or even emotion. Something besides primal urges. There's bad art, and then there's stuff that ranks below my feces in terms of artistic merit. It's still a form of entertainment, and it can be a good one at that, but it's not art.

Think:
Changes vs any song by Snoop Dogg
Metal Gear Solid vs Mortal Kombat
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind vs Spanglish

Again, you're assuming that mainstream rap makes up the bulk of all rap music out there. It does not.

Whether it's the bulk or not is moot. When people say 'rap', they think of all the bling bling hoe sex crap. When people think 'rappers', they think 50 Cent, Snoop Dog, Ludacris and Jay Z. It's the harsh reality of things. When people think 'punk', they think Good Charlotte.

And note that I said 'amost all'.

[Alakhriveion]

When people think "Rock," they think pop, when people think "Television," they think 'According to Jim.' With the exception of television, everything has some redeming qualities.

You're counting black eyed peas? Hey hot mama and Fergie shaking her ass? That's what they're down to now

They sold out. It happens.

[Selena]

Uh, unless you want to get in trouble, use that brain of yours and listen to the mod.



As for the whole 'art' thing.... I've seen ugly pieces of crap that have been considered art and required no real intelligence or emotion (i.e.: most modern art, which consists of randomly throwing paint against a canvas). SOME of it can require thought and emotion (I, for one, can't produce rhymes worth shit, especially on command), and I think it's wrong to generalize a whole genre just because of the popular stuff they put on MTV... or is it MTV2, now? Bah, too many channels.

And if you say that rap is not art or music because of its subject matter... meh, remember that most rock is about sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Loads of sex in pop music now, too. Yet rap is the one that gets the brunt of the 'you aren't music' assaults.


...and Mortal Kombat pwns you. That is all.

[Khuffie]

As for the whole 'art' thing.... I've seen ugly pieces of crap that have been considered art and required no real intelligence or emotion (i.e.: most modern art, which consists of randomly throwing paint against a canvas).

Selena, that sorta of bullshit is exactly what I was talking about when I was saying some stuff rates lower than my feces based on artistic merit .

[Selena]

I actually agree with that (give me classical art any day), but I guess that just means 'art' is relative and in the eye of the beholder... considering people will pay thousands upon thousands for modern art. Why? Who knows. XP