150 replies to this topic

[Clayvman]

I like, like one rap song other then that it sucks ass and should burn

the song i like is Get low because its on Need for speed Underground

that and little john

[backin1982]

Rap IS music. Just depends on peoples likings in music. I personally like a little bit of rap, i do not find all of it to be good, annoying voices or bad beats that just..annoy me. But i have nothing against it.

[thabto81]

I have a question: since when does music consist only of singing? Perhaps it's just my imagination but I thought music was more then just singing pretty tunes.

[Goose]

If we go back to its origins, music was just banging a stick against a rock. I Think it was a Caveman Afrodesiac that they used to attract their mates, kind of like a frogs croak.

[Korhend]

I have a question: since when does music consist only of singing? Perhaps it's just my imagination but I thought music was more then just singing pretty tunes.

Me too, cause I've been listening to Wagner and I thought it was pretty good music. But I guess since it has no singing...guess its not music.

[Wanchimaera]

If it's already been said, ignore this:

Music is cultural. The Western Civilization's concept of music is different than, say, the Asian and the African concepts. Western music is based on Tertian Harmony, that is, three notes to form a chord that is pleasing to the ear (to our ears). Eastern music and African music, as well as others, don't have the same harmonic foundations as Western Music. I believe that rap is a derivitive of African tribal music and American popular music. To give the opinion that rap isn't music is nothing short of ignorant and elitist.

In short, even if rap didn't fit the dictionary's definition of music, it is still a cultural means of expression by voice and/or instruments (you can turn a rock and a stick into a musical instrument) and therefore, it's music, and to say it's not is disrespectful of the culture of which it came from and the ones that use it. Do I like it? No. I can't stand it. It's the message that needs to change, not the style.

Me too, cause I've been listening to Wagner and I thought it was pretty good music. But I guess since it has no singing...guess its not music.

That's really weird... as I was reading through this thread, I was also listening to a little bit of Wagner. I'd recommend Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral from Lohengrin . It's quite possibly the most beautiful piece of music ever written. It's been the inspiration for many, many people, shed many a tear (yeah, I've heard stories of people crying at the end of the piece. Professional musicians and well known composers.).

[Alakhriveion]

I believe that rap is a derivitive of African tribal music and American popular music.

Well... it isn't. Rap is extremely American.

[Wanchimaera]

That's what I get for trying to do two music things at once. I got it mixed up. It should have read "...derivitive of Jamaican Reggae and American popular music."

Thanks for pointing that out, but if you look it up, rap is traced to a Jamaican born DJ, Kool Herc. I was trying to juggle a Music History paper with that post and I got mixed up.

[Korhend]

well, depends on how far your willing to trace musical roots back

[Wanchimaera]

Some people do trace rap back to the African Griots, but rap as we know it had more of a Jamaican influence.

[Alakhriveion]

Yes indeed. Jamaica is in the Americas, yes? American. Extremely American.

[Wanchimaera]

Well, I guess if you put it that way...

[Korhend]

It really is a matter of how far back you wanna trace things. If you like, I can trace Break Dancing back to Africa, I'm sure you could probably do the same with rap.

[Goose]

I belive that all music could be traced back to..... Og, the caveman, if you want to go back that far.

[Reflectionist]

Rap is Rap... Rock is Rock, music is music.

Linkin Park, the band I listen to most, has Rock, Rap, Electronica, and they've only cussed in some of their old albums, where they were primarily rap. Keep in mind, one does not need to rap about sex, drugs, bling, or gangs to make a good rap song. Songs of Linkin Park's like, Step Up, High Voltage, and Fuse are pretty much all rap, have words that somebody can acceptably use on a public TV show, and promote a healthy understanding of music. My favorite song by them is one called Dedicated. The lyrics are very meaningful, and if I may say so, pretty relevant to the discussion at hand. Like I said, their old stuff has some mild profanity, and it is somehow their best stuff.

The Lyrics to Dedicated are here:
http://www.pushmeawa...atedlyrics.html

The lyrics for High Voltage are here (it's not really a remix... don't know why it's called that.)
http://www.pushmeawa...ltageremix.html

[Ember]

Is rap really that popular?

[Jasi]

You'd be surprised. It's all that's on the radio anymore.

I don't know. I don't think rap is exactly music. However, I think it's fun to listen to when you're in a group of people. For example, driving somewhere with three other people and singing as loud as you can "To the windooooooooooooow to the WALL!"

But when you compare it to jazz or classical or even indie rock, it's not as high quality.

[Alakhriveion]

You'd be surprised. It's all that's on the radio anymore.

I don't know. I don't think rap is exactly music. However, I think it's fun to listen to when you're in a group of people. For example, driving somewhere with three other people and singing as loud as you can "To the windooooooooooooow to the WALL!"

But when you compare it to jazz or classical or even indie rock, it's not as high quality.

It depends upon what you focus. Here's some sample rock lyrics:

Wooooaah!! Woooaah! I can FEEL! I can FEEL! Woooaah!

Rap Lyrics:
And I still like to play with my Tonka toys
I'm a Toys 'R Us kid, oh yes I is
(You can't be serious!)
Oh Yes I is!
Boom!
It's on!


There's stupid everywhere. 98% of everything is going to suck. You mentioned jazz, classical, and indie. These all have their low points, for example, when I play them.

[Wanchimaera]

There's stupid everywhere. 98% of everything is going to suck. You mentioned jazz, classical, and indie. These all have their low points, for example, when I play them.

Ever heard of 20th Century serialism? Bang on the piano for about five minutes, record yourself, and there you have it.

[Reflectionist]

did anyone look at those lyrics I posted?

[Goose]

And the lyrics I posted. Truth is, I dont think they can be bothered to look back that far.

[Isis]

The only thing I dislike about rap is it's vulgar lyrics

[thabto81]

The only thing I dislike about rap is it's vulgar lyrics

A Woman is Fickle

You will be miserable
if you trust her,
if you confide in her
without guarding your heart!
And yet you'll never
feel happy
if you don't sip love
from her breast!

The lyrics above are an excerpt taken from Verdi's famous Opera Rigoletto. At the time they were considered very inappropriate and vulgar because of the sexual conotation inherit in the words, very similar to how lyrics in rap music are treated today. I think you see where I'm going with this. One mustn't be so quick to denouce an entire cultural art form simply because you consider parts of it to be vulgar.

[Vazor]

The reason for rap not being music is not that its vulgar (hell, there are vulgarities to anything), but the fact that the rapper neither plays an instrument, nor sings. Therefore, nothing musical is being done.

[Alakhriveion]

The rapper sings, and the DJ does his thing (I'd argue that composing and mixing counts). If you HAVE to play an instrument, what about the singer in a band?

[Vazor]

Rappers don't sing. They rap. Hence why he is called a rapper and not a singer.

And I never said that they have to sing AND play an instrument, but if they do neither, than what exactly is going on musically? (Hint: nothing)

[Alakhriveion]

SOMEONE plays an instrument, or close enough, and rapping is singing. It's not like it's toneless.

[thabto81]

Using your voice in an artistic way can result in two things and two things only: acting - whether it be on the radio, in the movies, or in an animated film - and singing.

And, like I've said before, since when does music require singing? Even if rap isn't a form of singing, all those noises in the background that rappers rap too is still in the realm of music.

[Korhend]

The reason for rap not being music is not that its vulgar (hell, there are vulgarities to anything), but the fact that the rapper neither plays an instrument, nor sings. Therefore, nothing musical is being done.

So...by your definition...wagner is not music.

[thabto81]

So...by your definition...wagner is not music.

Using your voice in an artistic way can result in two things and two things only: acting - whether it be on the radio, in the movies, or in an animated film - and singing.

And, like I've said before, since when does music require singing? Even if rap isn't a form of singing, all those noises in the background that rappers rap too is still in the realm of music.

Do you feel a sense of deja vu, Korhend? I could have sworn you and I said exactly the same thing not too long ago...

Last month:

I have a question: since when does music consist only of singing? Perhaps it's just my imagination but I thought music was more then just singing pretty tunes.

Me too, cause I've been listening to Wagner and I thought it was pretty good music. But I guess since it has no singing...guess its not music.

Oh yeah! Now I remember! It's like the same people keep bringing up the same ridiculous argument only to be shot down by the same people not foolish enough to believe those ridiculous arguments! :wall:

I swear I get mentaly dizzy coming to this forum sometimes.