278 replies to this topic

[Zythe]

Then what the hell is the Shrine-shaped, Four Sword carrying thing in the exact same place as the Palace of the Four Sword.

[Hero of Winds]

Then what the hell is the Shrine-shaped, Four Sword carrying thing in the exact same place as the Palace of the Four Sword.

Are you talking about the Elementary Sanctuary/Four Sword Shrine?

And what does the Palace of the Four Sword have to do with any of this? What does anything in your post have anything to do with Light Force = Triforce, or Minish Realm = Sacred Realm?

[Zythe]

Well, the PotFS is where the FS is kept in LTTP, in the Sacred Realm. We see Vaati sealed in the castle (same place as PotFS) at the beginning of HA. And in the same place, again, we see the shrine shown in FS on the GBA, except now it's said to be the Minish Realm. And if memory serves, when we first see a pic of the Shrine in HA (the one in the castle), it's identical to the FS one.

So, if you're right HoW, what's the place in the castle shown to be the Shrine in every other game?

[Hero of Winds]

Well, the PotFS is where the FS is kept in LTTP, in the Sacred Realm. We see Vaati sealed in the castle (same place as PotFS) at the beginning of HA. And in the same place, again, we see the shrine shown in FS on the GBA, except now it's said to be the Minish Realm. And if memory serves, when we first see a pic of the Shrine in HA (the one in the castle), it's identical to the FS one.

So, if you're right HoW, what's the place in the castle shown to be the Shrine in every other game?

You have so many things wrong, it boggles the mind.

1) Whether or not the Palace of the Four Sword is even considered part of the Zelda storyline is up for debate, so it's hardly valid for support.

2) The Four Sword Shrine is not in Hyrule Castle.

3) The FS Shrine, in FS (GBA version), was never said to be any sort of realm, Minish or Sacred.

4) The Palace of the Four Sword is in the Pyramid of Power, at the center of the Dark World. Hyrule Castle is in Hyrule. I fail to see any connection you make between the two.

5) Vaati was never sealed in any castle. He was defeated in Hyrule Castle, and in the FS backstory, was sealed in the Four Sword. The sword was then enshrined in a forest.

Actually, the FS backstory disproves the idea that the Elemental Sanctuary and the Four Sword Shrine are one in the same. According to the FS backstory, the people built a shrine for the Four Sword in a forest. Considering that matches up with the shrine's location in FSA, whereas the Elemental Sanctuary is in Hyrule Castle (in TMC), you can't even use that as support for your theory.

[Zythe]

ARGH! The theorist of hypocrisy enrages Zythe!

4) The Palace of the Four Sword is in the Pyramid of Power, at the center of the Dark World. Hyrule Castle is in Hyrule. I fail to see any connection you make between the two.

5) Vaati was never sealed in any castle. He was defeated in Hyrule Castle, and in the FS backstory, was sealed in the Four Sword. The sword was then enshrined in a forest.

4) Pyramid of Power is the Sacred Realm equivalent of the Castle. In HA, when you're in the castle, you're thrown into it's DW counterpart. There is Vaati, sealed in a sword.

5) Strange. He was in the castle at the beginning of HA.

Enshrined in a forest? Says who?

[SOAP]

Aren't you clever.

Mario Jr: Look at this.



You see that grouping of snowy trees that's between the Ice Temple and Tower of Winds? That's where the shrine is located. The reason they need to go in and out is because it's the only way to get to the tower.

I see a bunch of trees... but no building. The Four Sword Shrine is a very important place, surely it would've been clearly marked somewhere on the map between the Ice Temple and the Tower of Winds. Point is, ANYTHIng could've occured underneath that snowy canopy. They've could;ve gone underground, in a tree, in a small building totally obscured by the forest. OR they could've gone through a portal in and out of Dark World. We don't know. There is a room in the ALttP remake that looks exactly the same with the same purpose and close enough of a name underneath the pyramid in Dark World and that's what I'm sticking with. Believe what you want.

[Zythe]

Thank you, MJr.

The fact is Hero, the argument that supports your theory, which as always seems to be the polar opposite of mine, is just as questionable as my own. If not moreso.

The fact that all the places I mentioned look exactly the same, is pretty good proof. Also, this FSS at the bottom of the Wind Palace you speak of, would it happen to be identical to the one at the beginning?

[Hero of Winds]

I see a bunch of trees... but no building. The Four Sword Shrine is a very important place, surely it would've been clearly marked somewhere on the map between the Ice Temple and the Tower of Winds. Point is, ANYTHIng could've occured underneath that snowy canopy. They've could;ve gone underground, in a tree, in a small building totally obscured by the forest. OR they could've gone through a portal in and out of Dark World. We don't know. There is a room in the ALttP remake that looks exactly the same with the same purpose and close enough of a name underneath the pyramid in Dark World and that's what I'm sticking with. Believe what you want.

The Four Sword Shrine, as implied by the FS manual, was built in a forest (of sorts). At the end of HA, Frozen Hyrule is restored, meaning that snowy canopy was only snowy because of the curse Vaati placed on it. Considering the fact that there's no credible proof that you have to warp to the Dark World to get to the shrine, or inside that canopy, what you're implying is fanfiction. The whole "anything could've happened" doesn't cut it, because then not only are you using fanfiction to explain something, you're not even giving an explanation! You're just saying "something happened, and that's why my theory is right." Just the same, I could say Ganondorf was Zelda's brother and I could say "something happened and that's why everything is the way it is."

Also keep in mind Link puts the Four Sword back in the shrine at the end of HA. Whereas in the Palace of the Four Sword, it's split into four pieces.

Another thing to keep in mind is how could Zelda and the Shrine Maidens protect the Four Sword Shrine if it was in the Dark World? A world of darkness isn't exactly a good place of keeping an ancient, powerful relic, nor a good place to keep your eye on it.

The fact that all the places I mentioned look exactly the same, is pretty good proof. Also, this FSS at the bottom of the Wind Palace you speak of, would it happen to be identical to the one at the beginning?

I said it's at the bottom of the Tower of Winds. And yes, it's the same shrine. Why would they be any different?

Seriously Zythe, stop trying to debate until you play FSA. It's incredibly frustrating to argue with someone over a game they've never played.

[SOAP]

And why wouldn't it be? Dark World was indeed shadowy and... weird but it wasn't exactly evil either if children could freely play around in it. It was the normal world that was a mess. If anything Dark World was safest place on earth because no one would dare go in there to mess with it. Also, why would Zelda need the other six maidens to warp there just to check on the seal if she could just warp there herself, or hell just walk there for God's sake! You also don't return to the Four Sword until you find all the maidens again.

To me, placing the Four Sword Shrine underneath the Pyramid of Power makes sense because when Ganon is sealed in the Foursword at the end of HA, he would already be in Dark World, thus setting the stage for ALttP. Upon breaking free of his imprisonment, the first thing he would've done is shatter the sword into four parts and locked them up in different parts of the Palace of the Four Sword so that no one would use it against him again. After that he then began trying to figure out how to get out of Dark World.

Also, manuals aren't canon, Hero.

[Hero of Winds]

And why wouldn't it be? Dark World was indeed shadowy and... weird but it wasn't exactly evil either if children could freely play around in it. It was the normal world that was a mess. If anything Dark World was safest place on earth because no one would dare go in there to mess with it. Also, why would Zelda need the other six maidens to warp there just to check on the seal if she could just warp there herself, or hell just walk there for God's sake! You also don't return to the Four Sword until you find all the maidens again.

The Shrine Maidens exist to keep the Four Sword sealed inside it's shrine. Maybe Zelda is the shrine's guardian because she's close enough to it?

And keep in mind that when people vanished into the Dark World in HA, the other Hyruleans didn't exactly not care about it. They were worried about their children, girlfriends, etc. Hyrule's only a mess when someone like Ganon or Vaati comes along, but the Dark World is always a place of evil.

To me, placing the Four Sword Shrine underneath the Pyramid of Power makes sense because when Ganon is sealed in the Foursword at the end of HA, he would already be in Dark World, thus setting the stage for ALttP. Upon breaking free of his imprisonment, the first thing he would've done is shatter the sword into four parts and locked them up in different parts of the Palace of the Four Sword so that no one would use it against him again. After that he then began trying to figure out how to get out of Dark World.

That only works if you place FSA before ALttP.

Also, manuals aren't canon, Hero.

Um... yes, they are.

[Zythe]

Seriously Zythe, stop trying to debate until you play FSA. It's incredibly frustrating to argue with someone over a game they've never played.

I've got it. My little friend coursework prevents me from playing much more.

Originally Posted by Zythe
The fact that all the places I mentioned look exactly the same, is pretty good proof. Also, this FSS at the bottom of the Wind Palace you speak of, would it happen to be identical to the one at the beginning?

I said it's at the bottom of the Tower of Winds. And yes, it's the same shrine. Why would they be any different?

If it is, then that alone proves that it's actually in the castle because at the beginning we go into the castle and in its Dark World/Sacred Realm copy the Four Sword Shrine is right there. So if they are one in the same, then you've actually just proved my point.

[Hero of Winds]

If it is, then that alone proves that it's actually in the castle because at the beginning we go into the castle and in its Dark World/Sacred Realm copy the Four Sword Shrine is right there. So if they are one in the same, then you've actually just proved my point.

How would the shrine being at the base of the tower prove it's in the castle?

I understand what you're trying to say, but you're assuming that the warp Link and Shadow Link go through (in Hyrule Castle, at the beginning of FSA) is a warp to the Dark World. Where, in reality, it can't possibly be. The Four Sword Shrine is obviously in the snowy canopy between the Ice Temple and Tower of Winds. Whether you believe it's in Hyrule (as I do) or think there was some kind of hidden Dark World warp at the entrance and exit of that canopy (as Mario Jr does) it proves, without a doubt, that the Four Sword Shrine is not in Hyrule Castle, Light World or Dark World.

[Zythe]

So you're suggesting the warp in the castle teleported you to the shrine? The snowy canopy and the castle are so near, if you never see Link enter or actively move to that spot, then he could have just back-tracked bit. I think.

[Hero of Winds]

So you're suggesting the warp in the castle teleported you to the shrine? The snowy canopy and the castle are so near, if you never see Link enter or actively move to that spot, then he could have just back-tracked bit. I think.

He could've walked to the shrine, but keep in mind what was going on. Shadow Link comes out of the warp, imprisons all the maidens in those black crystals and then leaves through the same warp. Link doesn't know where it's going to take hi, but he needs to follow Shadow Link. So he steps on the warp to chase him.

[Zythe]

It's just the sages/maidens are always associated with the SR/DW, and "Dark" Link always escapes there if you fail to hit him.

I understand your diregard of the theory that Jr. and I have, but I can't understand why. It would help a lot, Hero, if you posted your timeline?

[SwordBreaker]

Sorry to come in late in the discussion. Just finished TMC.

Anyway, I think The Light Force is an energy of some sort, since...



SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS




...Elzo says to Zelda in the end that she has SOME of the Light Force remaining within her. So Vaati was able to drain some of it. I don't think The Light Force is a physical relic ala Triforce, but it could be assosiated with the Triforce since its symbol in the glass-stained paintings is a 'Golden Triangle'.

[Zythe]

So you're saying it's ... what? Like Alak, a spirit of the Triforce a something?

[Vazor]

Which would make no sense. The Triforce cannot have a spirit, as it is pure energy, left by the gods, and the fact that it is NOT ALIVE. It' is much more likely that the Light Force IS the whole Triforce, and that some of its POWER has stayed with Zelda.

[SwordBreaker]

Which would make no sense. The Triforce cannot have a spirit, as it is pure energy, left by the gods, and the fact that it is NOT ALIVE. It' is much more likely that the Light Force IS the whole Triforce, and that some of its POWER has stayed with Zelda.

Hmm...the Light Force could be the ESSENCE of the Triforce (from ALttP)...

How do you know the Triforce is pure energy? We've never seen that mentioned in any of the Zelda games. We've never seen anyone sucking the power from the Triforce...only usage of the relic's power (or one of its parts like Ganon and ToP).

And about the Triforce not distinguishing between good and evil...well that's an add-on to the U.S. ALttP and it is NOT mentioned in Triforce of the Gods AT ALL. In fact, I think ToG talks about the opposite...the Triforce does have a spirit of some sort, and it could or it could not be the Light Force. Check out Davo's article regarding the differences between the Japanese and U.S. ALttPs.

[Zythe]

It would seem that the Triforce's nature is an ever-changing one. It has been shown to be a crest, a physical relic of great power, a great power in itself and as the presence of the gods - what's not to say that the Light Force (SHOWN AS A FRICKIN TRIFORCE PIECE IN THE IN-GAME ARTWORK) is not another form it has chosen to take.

[SwordBreaker]

It would seem that the Triforce's nature is an ever-changing one. It has been shown to be a crest, a physical relic of great power, a great power in itself and as the presence of the gods - what's not to say that the Light Force (SHOWN AS A FRICKIN TRIFORCE PIECE IN THE IN-GAME ARTWORK) is not another form it has chosen to take.

Hmm...that's sounds interesting man. It could be that the Triforce CHANGED into or is represented as the Light Force in TMC...that would EXPLAIN WHY IN HECK WE DON'T SEE THE TRIFORCE AT ALL IN THE FS GAMES...

Cool idea.

[Fatgoron]

the light force was shown as a single golden/yellow triangle, there ar eplenty of those in other games that aren't actual triforce pieces.

Why can't the light force be a seperate entity? Seems to me they just needed some kind of deus ex machina to justify Vaati's actions.

[Zythe]

I will it play it through again soon... but I've got so much coursework. To be better informed, I will officially retire from this thread untill such time as I have reached whatever level the snow-thing is on. Goodbye.

[SOAP]

It's the Ice Temple level in case you didn't know already, Zythe. But I gotta say, I played that level so many times and still I have my own ideas. Maybe I'm just stubborn. Anyways, I don't have the manual for either FS or FSA but I do recall something about some relic being enshrined in some forest--sounds familar enough. I'll give Hero the benifit of the doubt and thusly shut up about the Four Sword Shrine being under the Pyramid of Power (even though it totally works in with a FS-FSA-ALTTP timeline theory).

If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

[Hero of Winds]

It's the Ice Temple level in case you didn't know already, Zythe. But I gotta say, I played that level so many times and still I have my own ideas. Maybe I'm just stubborn. Anyways, I don't have the manual for either FS or FSA but I do recall something about some relic being enshrined in some forest--sounds familar enough. I'll give Hero the benifit of the doubt and thusly shut up about the Four Sword Shrine being under the Pyramid of Power (even though it totally works in with a FS-FSA-ALTTP timeline theory).
 
If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.

The shrine doesn't work, as it isn't in Hyrule Castle. What could work is the Palace of the Four Sword being a Dark World version of the Elemental Sanctuary, since the latter IS in Hyrule Castle, and presumably still there (assuming that TMC and ALttP happen in the same Hyrule).

[Vazor]

Why wouldn't they take place in the same Hyrule?

Also, we don't know for sure if the elemental sanctuary is in Hyrule. There is a portal to it in Hyrule Castle, but we don't see the temple on the map. After all, the adults don't see it, so they obviously didn't build it...perhaps it is in the Minish Realm after all..... (I personally don't believe this, I just thought it would be a good point to bring up)

[Hero of Winds]

Why wouldn't they take place in the same Hyrule?

Well, TMC Hyrule certainly doesn't look like ALttP Hyrule. It doesn't really look like any other Hyrule, except maybe a little bit of OoT.

[MikePetersSucks]

Yea....about the Light Force looking like a Triforce peice.

We see an item in LA that makes you temporarily invincible called a Peice of Power. It's shaped like a triangle. OMG GANONDORF'z TRIFOCRE! -.-

[Vazor]

Well, TMC Hyrule certainly doesn't look like ALttP Hyrule. It doesn't really look like any other Hyrule, except maybe a little bit of OoT.

Are you daft, sir? TMC flows perfectly near-perfectly into the OoT Map. The OoT Map is very similar to the LTTP Map. The LoZ map looks exactly like a destroyed version of the LTTP map. Obviosuly they all fit into the same Hyrule. I mean honestly, do you really believe that WW's "New Hyrule" was actually a new country? Hyrule has always been the same place, no matter what game you're in (except oracles, MM, and LA obviously).