818 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

Hell, forget that, the first half of the first sentence contradicts the second half.

[Snow]

His whole body was sent back in time, but not as a physical entity. He was transported into his child body, retaining all his memories but nothing else.

You do know that second sentence completely contradicts the other, right?

It would be easier to say that his physical body just vanished, as the universe attempted to correct itself after the split. In either case, I kinda get the impression that that particular scene with Link and Zelda wasn't entirely corporeal in the first place. Maybe Link actually died from the battle and what we saw was Zelda spiriting his soul back into the past one last time to get a second chance at life.

You're right, I could have worded that better. The way I've always seen it, Link being sent back in time at the end of OoT is similar in nature to how the five sages seemingly were transported out of the Sacred Realm in the ending scene. In other words, he was transformed into an incorporeal entity which went backwards in time into his child body. Not saying that it was exactly like that, but that's sort of how I've always pictured it.

[ganonlord6000]

http://www.zeldauniv...n-and-fate.html

Our need for truly kooky theories has been answered.

*bangs head on computer desk*

This is the second time this week I've seen someone trying to compare something from the Zelda world to the real world. The other was trying to compare AOL's map to the UK.

[Pinecove]

http://forums.zeldai...post__p__234526

Guy thinks Ganondorf didn't die at the end of TWW. Fail.

[Average Gamer]

What I've always found most ridiculous about those theories is that they all ignore the massive wound running through Ganon's head and brain. Even if removing the Master Sword from his head would depetrify him, his body would just topple and begin bleeding all over the floor. Heck, in the game we can see Ganon already falling down before the petrification process begins, and the fact that his body stops twitching halfway through could even suggest that he died at that moment.

[ganonlord6000]

http://forums.zeldai...post__p__234526

Guy thinks Ganondorf didn't die at the end of TWW. Fail.

I'm tired of seeing these. Do they ignore the fact that both of the people talking about Ganon's death in TWW are pretty high up on the localization team? It's pretty clear he's dead anyway since there was nothing keeping him immortal at the time, and in the examples given about the MS not being able to kill him, the MS wasn't in LOZ, he had the complete Triforce and the trident in ALTTP and was a demon at the time, and in OOT, the Zelda mythos were a mess and Ganon wasn't supposed to die at that point anyway.
That thread was just sad and made of fail. Would you mind if I jump into that arguement, Pinecove?

[Pinecove]

That thread was just sad and made of fail. Would you mind if I jump into that arguement, Pinecove?

Be my guest.
Jarsh has done a pretty good job on it already, but I can imagine you would contribute to it.

[ganonlord6000]

That thread was just sad and made of fail. Would you mind if I jump into that arguement, Pinecove?

Be my guest.
Jarsh has done a pretty good job on it already, but I can imagine you would contribute to it.

I'm sure I could. I was thinking of returning to ZI anyways, so this just gave me a good excuse to go there.

[Average Gamer]

A couple of guys on ZI (and Beemnorv on ZU, who's known as Argent on ZI) currently have a three-pronged split timeline that also essentially cherry picks certain games and baselessly dismisses them as nothing more than mere stories in-universe. In the words of ZI's Phantom Archivist:

It is a hybrid between predestination, literal legends, and separate timeline branch all together.

Predestination - More or less the same in-game support you give for your timeline (as you have seen throughout current discussions lately)

Literal Legends - The SW happens in two different historical recordings different from original 98 intent. There are three SW versions split amongst the zelda-universes which all end up with Ganon's first true defeat.

Literal Timeline Branch - Imposed by developers writing out the 2D games on the AT and CT to make way for a consistent 3D continuum.

http://forums.zeldainformer.com/topic/9284-i-love-my-timeline/

Beemnorv doesn't have a specific thread, but I could link to some of his posts at a later date.

Really, these guys are completely grasping at straws, and they seem to be uncertain whether they should go the "literal legend" or "Tuf Pic" route.

Edit: Beemnorv talking about his timeline theory on ZU:

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/118716-what-is-the-predestined-future-theory.html

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/121237-sir-zekes-timeline-2-0-a.html

Edited by Average Gamer, 12 February 2011 - 06:19 AM.

[Jarsh]

The way I feel about it is if there was such a sub-split in an already split continuity, it probably would have been mentioned when the split timeline was brought up.

And things like the Japanese Wii Shop Channel description don't prove much because all it says, basically, is that OoT is similar to ALttP's backstory, which would still be true even if OoT has been retconned from being that event. That, and the descriptions are supposed to be relevant to when the games were first released, so it'd still be outdated.

That, and how games like TP and FSA bother to try and reference the classic games sort of implies, to me, that the developers still intend for them to be placed among the modern games.

Though it's not my favorite, this is a pretty kooky theory, and it also includes extra, unnecessary splits.

Edited by Jarsh, 08 February 2011 - 05:49 PM.

[Average Gamer]

This isn't even a theory, but I like it nonetheless:

http://www.zeldauniv...da-machine.html

[Average Gamer]

So, in addition to arguing for some games being "alternate takes" of others (ex: OoT and FSA), Beemnorv is now outright arguing for a literal legend theory despite the fact that those have been dead for years. Honestly, it really just seems like he's searching for an excuse to say "My timeline doesn't have to make sense."

Also, Lex is currently arguing that pretty much every game involving the Triforce is the Great Cataclysm, despite the fact that the cataclysm was specifically pointed out to be unique to ALttP.

Edited by Average Gamer, 19 March 2011 - 06:28 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

None of those are new, though. People have argued both those idea since the 90's.

[Average Gamer]

None of those are new, though. People have argued both those idea since the 90's.

I know that the former has been discussed before, but I wasn't aware that anyone argued for the latter until now. Either way, I simply find it funny that people have resorted to such crazy theories, especially when Beemnorv would have tried to shoot down the literal legend angle only a few months ago.

Why would people even try to argue that every Triforce game was the Great Cataclysm anyway? Ganon only had the full Triforce (a requirement of the cataclysm) in one game, and it was made explicitly clear that ALttP Link was the prophesied hero, especially since Aginah cites the prophecy and reveals that the hero will use the Book of Mudora. There's also the fact that it's referred to as a singular event rather than a reoccurring one.

[SOAP]

Literal Legend theorists aren't dead! :/

I hold to that theory, albeit I do awknowlege confirmed chronological connections (e.g. TWW takes place hundreds of years after OoT) but beyond that it's collection of stories that after a while get a soft reboot.

Edited by SOAP, 21 March 2011 - 06:07 AM.

[Average Gamer]

Shifting from laughable kooky to likable kooky, a couple of weeks ago I saw someone say that Navi may have been Link's mother reincarnated to watch over her son until he became a true man. While the idea is completely baseless and the poster was most likely trolling, I still found this interesting.

Edited by Average Gamer, 01 April 2011 - 01:56 PM.

[MikePetersSucks]

That's actually a kind of cute idea, but if I was Link it would make me glad my mom was dead. The problem is it creates an issue of why she only NOW is assigned to Link.

Speaking of kooky ideas, I always liked the idea that Zelda and Link were twins in OOT, explaining their vague familiarity to each other and their instant hookup as platonic soulmates. Also Zelda's missing a mom and Link's dad is unaccounted for and they're both blonde blue eyed pureblood Hylians.

[SOAP]

That's actually a kind of cute idea, but if I was Link it would make me glad my mom was dead. The problem is it creates an issue of why she only NOW is assigned to Link.

Speaking of kooky ideas, I always liked the idea that Zelda and Link were twins in OOT, explaining their vague familiarity to each other and their instant hookup as platonic soulmates. Also Zelda's missing a mom and Link's dad is unaccounted for and they're both blonde blue eyed pureblood Hylians.

In my mind, Malon favors Link more than Zelda. She may not be blonde but as kids they both have the same distinct, round eye shapes, while Zelda's eyes are different and more asian-looking. Malon has a missing mom too and Link's hair is more of an orange blonde while Zelda's more of straight-up platinum blonde. It'd also make more sense for Link to be the son of some rancher's wife rather than a queen. How exactly does a queen with a male heir to the throne in tow go missing and nobody makes a big deal about it?

Edited by SOAP, 02 April 2011 - 03:13 PM.

[Average Gamer]

That's actually a kind of cute idea, but if I was Link it would make me glad my mom was dead. The problem is it creates an issue of why she only NOW is assigned to Link.

Maybe she was reincarnated recently? Anyway, since it was likely a troll post, there probably wasn't that much thought put into it.

Speaking of kooky ideas, I always liked the idea that Zelda and Link were twins in OOT, explaining their vague familiarity to each other and their instant hookup as platonic soulmates. Also Zelda's missing a mom and Link's dad is unaccounted for and they're both blonde blue eyed pureblood Hylians.

That could work, though I always thought that the pureblood status and the eyes and hair had more to do with the chosen ones being ideal Hylians. Also, seeing as how Link's mortally wounded mother had the time to run into the Lost Woods, I figured that she was likely a peasant who lived near there. A queen would presumably be in Hyrule Castle, kept safe from the battles or too far to make the trek in time.

SOAP's idea about Link being related to Malon is also interesting, but I ultimately believe that Link wasn't related to anyone.

Another kooky theory I like was the repeated flooding one that Finbarr made. Basically, after TWW the people make a new land, completely miss the point of TWW, and eventually the gods flood the world again, a new land is found, etc. until eventually there's no land left and the Goddesses say "screw this." In addition to being funny, I thought it was a nice little dig at the people who insist that ALttP, LoZ, etc. go on the AT.

[Fin]

I've always liked the Link and Zelda are twins reading of OoT. Along with the other evidence, Zelda's comment that Link's name had a nostalgic sound to it, and one of the Composer Brothers commenting that Link reminds him of Zelda led me to believe it.

Speaking of the Composer Brothers, I always assumed that their story about Ganondorf stealing their research notes was actually an important piece of back story. I figured those notes were what actually led him to discover how to find the Triforce. When Zelda told Link about the whereabouts of the Triforce, she stressed that it was a secret kept by the Royal Family, so I doubt Ganondorf could have found that information easily. The Composer Brothers may have been privy to it though, since they were assigned to research the Triforce and ocarina songs.

Another kooky theory I like was the repeated flooding one that Finbarr made. Basically, after TWW the people make a new land, completely miss the point of TWW, and eventually the gods flood the world again, a new land is found, etc. until eventually there's no land left and the Goddesses say "screw this." In addition to being funny, I thought it was a nice little dig at the people who insist that ALttP, LoZ, etc. go on the AT.

And for the record, my joke about the hat being compelling evidence was directed at an interpretation of The Minish Cap that I fully support.

[Average Gamer]

Speaking of the Composer Brothers, I always assumed that their story about Ganondorf stealing their research notes was actually an important piece of back story. I figured those notes were what actually led him to discover how to find the Triforce. When Zelda told Link about the whereabouts of the Triforce, she stressed that it was a secret kept by the Royal Family, so I doubt Ganondorf could have found that information easily. The Composer Brothers may have been privy to it though, since they were assigned to research the Triforce and ocarina songs.

Didn't they prevent Ganon from getting their research though? Also, even the citizenry of Castle Town believed that the Temple of Time led to the Sacred Realm, and the altar with the indentations of the Spiritual Stones didn't help with keeping things under wraps. Ganon was raised by two ancient witches who likely knew a lot of things as well.

[Showsni]

That's actually a kind of cute idea, but if I was Link it would make me glad my mom was dead. The problem is it creates an issue of why she only NOW is assigned to Link.

Speaking of kooky ideas, I always liked the idea that Zelda and Link were twins in OOT, explaining their vague familiarity to each other and their instant hookup as platonic soulmates. Also Zelda's missing a mom and Link's dad is unaccounted for and they're both blonde blue eyed pureblood Hylians.

In my mind, Malon favors Link more than Zelda. She may not be blonde but as kids they both have the same distinct, round eye shapes, while Zelda's eyes are different and more asian-looking. Malon has a missing mom too and Link's hair is more of an orange blonde while Zelda's more of straight-up platinum blonde. It'd also make more sense for Link to be the son of some rancher's wife rather than a queen. How exactly does a queen with a male heir to the throne in tow go missing and nobody makes a big deal about it?

Of course, you know who else has a missing mum in the game - Ruto! Perhaps she's actually half Hylian/half Zora and Link is her half brother!

[Fin]

Speaking of the Composer Brothers, I always assumed that their story about Ganondorf stealing their research notes was actually an important piece of back story. I figured those notes were what actually led him to discover how to find the Triforce. When Zelda told Link about the whereabouts of the Triforce, she stressed that it was a secret kept by the Royal Family, so I doubt Ganondorf could have found that information easily. The Composer Brothers may have been privy to it though, since they were assigned to research the Triforce and ocarina songs.

Didn't they prevent Ganon from getting their research though? Also, even the citizenry of Castle Town believed that the Temple of Time led to the Sacred Realm, and the altar with the indentations of the Spiritual Stones didn't help with keeping things under wraps. Ganon was raised by two ancient witches who likely knew a lot of things as well.

Er, yes. All of those things are true. Damn.

Oh well. At least I posted this as a kooky theory.

[Snow]

GameFAQs has been even more kooky than usual lately. The most notably kooky theories I've seen were one arguing that Link's Awakening takes place in the middle of Oracle of Ages (apparently, that storm on the raft led to Link's adventures in Koholint or something), and another trying to claim that Twilight Princess takes place in Termina. The idea was that the Child Timeline split again during MM for some reason and that Termina was destroyed in one of the splits. Then, the survivors (!) rebuilt Termina and made it look just like Hyrule (to the point where they even changed the name of the entire kingdom, apparently).

[ganonlord6000]

GameFAQs has been even more kooky than usual lately. The most notably kooky theories I've seen were one arguing that Link's Awakening takes place in the middle of Oracle of Ages (apparently, that storm on the raft led to Link's adventures in Koholint or something), and another trying to claim that Twilight Princess takes place in Termina. The idea was that the Child Timeline split again during MM for some reason and that Termina was destroyed in one of the splits. Then, the survivors (!) rebuilt Termina and made it look just like Hyrule (to the point where they even changed the name of the entire kingdom, apparently).

*facepalm*

I've seen something similar to the first part of that before. It said that LA took place during AOL when you go between the islands. The worst part about it is that the source of that was the old NOA timeline. I think Person posted a link to it earlier in this thread.

Anyway, I recently ran into this guy who thinks that TP takes place at the end of the timeline, and that LOZ is when Ganon escaped from the OOT seal...on the CT. His evidence is something about the game saying that Ganon escaped from the DW in LOZ, and the source is not the NOA VC description. Can anybody try to pinpoint where that information could've come from?

Edited by ganonlord6000, 10 May 2011 - 10:00 PM.

[Snow]

He's probably referring to this quote:

Experience the original smash-hit adventure on the NES! Ganon, the King of Evil, has broken free of the Dark World and has captured Hyrule's beloved Princess Zelda. But, before she was caught, Zelda managed to shatter the Triforce of Wisdom and scatter its eight pieces throughout Hyrule. You begin your adventure by finding a small wooden sword in a dark cave. Then, as you grow in stature, experience, and strength, so do your weapons. Help Link collect the captured pieces of the Triforce, rescue the princess, and thwart Ganon?s evil plans!

Of course, thinking that VC descriptions are more canon than creator quotes, manuals and in-game evidence is rather silly.

Edited by Snow, 11 May 2011 - 03:33 AM.

[Average Gamer]

I've seen some people on ZU, most notably a poster named GrimmyV, saying that LoZ stated that Link left Hyrule after saving it and that AoL retconned that detail. The thing is, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing anything about Link leaving Hyrule after saving it. Is this really kooky, or are they simply referring to something incredibly obscure?

[ganonlord6000]

He's probably referring to this quote:

Experience the original smash-hit adventure on the NES! Ganon, the King of Evil, has broken free of the Dark World and has captured Hyrule's beloved Princess Zelda. But, before she was caught, Zelda managed to shatter the Triforce of Wisdom and scatter its eight pieces throughout Hyrule. You begin your adventure by finding a small wooden sword in a dark cave. Then, as you grow in stature, experience, and strength, so do your weapons. Help Link collect the captured pieces of the Triforce, rescue the princess, and thwart Ganon's evil plans!

Of course, thinking that VC descriptions are more canon than creator quotes, manuals and in-game evidence is rather silly.

I did mention that, but he claims that the info came from the game itself. I don't know if he's seeing something we don't, or if he's confusing LOZ with ALTTP. The guy even uses the two Zelda wikis as sources.

The thing is, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing anything about Link leaving Hyrule after saving it. Is this really kooky, or are they simply referring to something incredibly obscure?

Is it just me, or are most of the theories on ZU about things that are very insignificant?

[Average Gamer]

As part of Lex's current belief that the games are just literal legends (which he only came up with to blame Nintendo for somehow being incompetent just because his theories were wrong), he made this post on ZU:

http://www.zeldauniv...calization.html

[Snow]

Yeah, I honestly don't see how he could possibly draw that conclusion. All the guy says is that Nintendo keeps the timeline a secret, which is common knowledge. I thought most people knew that they kept the chronology somewhat ambiguous to prevent something like the Castlevania timeline débâcle.

Besides, the guy is paraphrasing the "NoA Localisation team" (which may actually have been Dan Owsen, assuming he visited the same pre-release exhibition as IGN and Zeldadungeon); it's not like his words have more weight than the words of the actual creators.