818 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

Sieg Heil.

I was going to go with Orwell.

Godwin's Corrollary: If it's Lex, go straight to Nazis due to his assholery being too much for Orwell.

[Arko]

Anything that involves the Gerudo being wiped out.

[ganonlord6000]

Anything that involves the Gerudo being wiped out.

Um, this isn't a kooky theory since there is in game evidence of something like this. ALTTP's manual seems to imply this as well.

[Fin]

You mean the manual that was written seven years before the Gerudo first appeared in a game?

Yeah, okay.

[MikePetersSucks]

And disregarding the fact that the Gerudo are NOMADS and their not being present is not indicative in the slightest that they don't exist anymore.

[Volvagia_slayer]

IGN has been like that for years. They're unwilling to accept what Nintendo says and keep coming up with excuses. A member from IGN named Volvagia Slayer even came to this board earlier in the year (or maybe a year ago) and tried to defend his theories, only to vanish after his arguments were countered.

My arguments were never countered though. We all made logical arguments. I just believed that the information in the games was of higher canon. You guys believe that what the creators say in interviews is of higher canon. My arguments were reflective of what the timeline looks like if the games hold higher canon, and your arguments were reflective of what the timeline looks like if the creators hold higher canon. We both decided that we weren't going to change each other's minds, so we let each other be. There's no reason to stir something up just because I don't post here everyday.

Also, it's not that we're unwilling to accept what Nintendo says. The single timeline theorists accept everything that Nintendo says that doesn't contradict what's in the games. The split timeline theorists accept what Nintendo says no matter what the contradictions. And in fact, a recent poll held on IGN shows that there are more people who believe in the split timeline than the single timeline there.

EDIT: @ ganonlord - No, you never mentioned this place. I found it on my own and was surprised to see other people talking about me, so I replied.

Edited by Volvagia_slayer, 18 November 2010 - 11:17 PM.

[Average Gamer]

My arguments were never countered though.

Yes they were, both by in-game content and developer interviews.

Also, it's not that we're unwilling to accept what Nintendo says. The single timeline theorists accept everything that Nintendo says that doesn't contradict what's in the games.

In the Japanese version of TWW, the timeline split was mentioned by Daphnes after Tetra's identity was revealed.

リンク お前は、時の勇者の伝説を知っているか？
Link, do you know the legend of the Hero of Time?
Link, do you know the legend of the Hero of Time?

かつて、あのガノンを倒し ハイラルに平和をもたらした時の勇者にも ゼルダと同じ　トライフォースが宿っていた
Long ago, the Hero of Time defeated Ganon and restored peace to Hyrule. He had a Triforce dwelling in him just like Zelda.
Once, long ago, he defeated Ganon and brought peace to the Kingdom of Hyrule... A piece of the Triforce was given to the Hero of Time and he kept it safe, much as Zelda kept hers.

それは、勇気のトライフォースと言って 時の勇者が時を旅してハイラルを去る時 勇者のもとを離れ、８つのかけらとなって 各地に飛び散ったと言われている
It was called the Triforce of Courage. It is said that when the Hero of Time traveled through time and left Hyrule, he was separated from the source of being a hero and the Triforce of Courage turned into 8 fragments and scattered throughout the land.
That sacred piece is known as the Triforce of Courage. When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero. It is said that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and hidden throughout the land.

お前はもうすでに、そのかけらを いくつか手に入れているようだが それを全て集め トライフォースを完成させれば ハイラルへの入り口は再び開くであろう 残りのかけらも探しだすのだ
You seem to have already obtained a few of those fragments, but if you collect all of them and complete the Triforce, the entrance to Hyrule will open once again. You must search for the remaining fragments.
It seems you already have some knowledge of these shards... If you are able to collect all of them, they will fuse together and complete the piece of the Triforce, once again opening the passage through the waves to Hyrule. You must search for the remaining shards.

Additionally, the translated Hylian text on the scrolls in the intro also state that Link left Hyrule by traveling through time. Ultimately, the timeline split is mentioned in the games.

[Volvagia_slayer]

^Do you seriously want us to repeat this thing all over again? Traveling through time and THEN leaving Hyrule is not the same as a split in time being confirmed. There is no in-game evidence that confirms the split. It is all out-of-game information. I didn't post in order to start this debate back up (because as you can see in my last post, I know that we both know this will just end in another stalemate with neither side budging), just to set the record straight. There shouldn't be any bad blood between us.

Edited by Volvagia_slayer, 19 November 2010 - 01:25 AM.

[Snow]

^Do you seriously want us to repeat this thing all over again? Traveling through time and THEN leaving Hyrule is not the same as a split in time being confirmed. There is no in-game evidence that confirms the split. It is all out-of-game information. I didn't post in order to start this debate back up (because as you can see in my last post, I know that we both know this will just end in another stalemate with neither side budging), just to set the record straight. There shouldn't be any bad blood between us.

The very existence of both MM and WW makes the split timeline an undeniable fact. The fact that TP continues after OoT's child ending only makes this even more clear.

[Average Gamer]

Do you seriously want us to repeat this thing all over again? Traveling through time and THEN leaving Hyrule is not the same as a split in time being confirmed.

Daphnes is saying that Link left Hyrule by traveling through time. The Hylian text on the intro scrolls says that as well.

[Volvagia_slayer]

The very existence of both MM and WW makes the split timeline an undeniable fact. The fact that TP continues after OoT's child ending only makes this even more clear.

You haven't said why though. The fact that TWW mentions MM several times despite the fact that they're supposed to exist in separate timelines does anything but make the split an undeniable fact.

Daphnes is saying that Link left Hyrule by traveling through time. The Hylian text on the intro scrolls says that as well.

It didn't say that in the quotes you posted. So where can I find this information?

[Snow]

You haven't said why though. The fact that TWW mentions MM several times despite the fact that they're supposed to exist in separate timelines does anything but make the split an undeniable fact.

WW doesn't mention MM a single time (and no, Easter eggs like "The Legend of the Fairy" does not count). MM undeniably takes place a few months after Link was sent back in time in OoT's ending and WW clearly takes place after the adult events of OoT. Since those events had been prevented prior to MM, WW and MM can't possibly take place on the same timeline.

It didn't say that in the quotes you posted. So where can I find this information?

それは、勇気のトライフォースと言って 時の勇者が時を旅してハイラルを去る時 勇者のもとを離れ、８つのかけらとなって 各地に飛び散ったと言われている
It was called the Triforce of Courage. It is said that when the Hero of Time traveled through time and left Hyrule, he was separated from the source of being a hero and the Triforce of Courage turned into 8 fragments and scattered throughout the land.
That sacred piece is known as the Triforce of Courage. When the Hero of Time was called to embark on another journey and left the land of Hyrule, he was separated from the elements that made him a hero. It is said that at that time, the Triforce of Courage was split into eight shards and hidden throughout the land.

"Though the people waited eagerly for the hero of the Legend to once again appear, the hero had put the country behind him, and journeyed into the flows of time, and never appeared."

[Volvagia_slayer]

WW doesn't mention MM a single time (and no, Easter eggs like "The Legend of the Fairy" does not count). MM undeniably takes place a few months after Link was sent back in time in OoT's ending and WW clearly takes place after the adult events of OoT. Since those events had been prevented prior to MM, WW and MM can't possibly take place on the same timeline.

First of all, why doesn't the Legend of the Fairy count? It was included in the game, wasn't it? It is included in order to explain why there is a Tingle in TWW, so it does serve a greater purpose than just existing as an Easter egg. Second, that's not the only reference (perhaps the only direct reference, but there are a couple of indirect references). The others include the fact that the legend of the Hero of Time says that he was a child. In the adult timeline the child Hero of Time never did anything to be recognized as a hero for. He was just the one who allowed Ganondorf to get to the Triforce of Power. However, in MM we are told that in the months before Link made his way to Termina, he was renowned throughout the land as the Hero of Time. So the child Hero of Time comes from an event that is mentioned only in MM, not OoT. Then there's the (admittedly weak) evidence of the Rito being the descendant of a Postman, and at the time TWW came out only MM had a Postman who looked like the Rito in question, so at the time of TWW's development, this was a direct reference to MM.

It was called the Triforce of Courage. It is said that when the Hero of Time traveled through time and left Hyrule, he was separated from the source of being a hero and the Triforce of Courage turned into 8 fragments and scattered throughout the land.

Exactly. The Hero of Time was separated from the elements that made him a hero when he left Hyrule, and the Triforce of Courage was split into fragments. However, did Link lose the Master Sword, the source of his title, when he went back in time? No, he appeared right in front of it when the light dimmed. Did the Triforce of Courage split up as he traveled back in time? Well he did still have the mark of the Triforce of Courage on the back of his hand when he went to see child Zelda again...

"Though the people waited eagerly for the hero of the Legend to once again appear, the hero had put the country behind him, and journeyed into the flows of time, and never appeared."

Yeah, the people 7 years in the future knew that the Hero of Time traveled back in time, and never appeared to them again. This says nothing about a split in time. We don't even know for sure that Link ever came back to Hyrule from Termina at the end of MM (though it does look like he was at least still traversing the Lost Woods looking for Navi at the end of the game).

[MikePetersSucks]

This is a stupid argument. Refusing to acknowledge the validity of other people's points doesn't make your argument at all credible, and it was debunked when other people brought it up fucking years ago. You're wrong, move on like everyone else has from the sinking ship.

[Volvagia_slayer]

This is a stupid argument. Refusing to acknowledge the validity of other people's points doesn't make your argument at all credible, and it was debunked when other people brought it up fucking years ago. You're wrong, move on like everyone else has from the sinking ship.

Surely this wasn't addressed at me or else you haven't been reading my posts. The people on this board are the ones who refuse to move on. My first post says that I'm not here to start debating again and that I come from a place that mostly believes in the split timeline. This is the same place you guys are saying is full of horrible theorists, yet they believe the same as you do. Do you just like shouting hypocritical accusations?

Edited by Volvagia_slayer, 19 November 2010 - 04:31 PM.

[Average Gamer]

First of all, why doesn't the Legend of the Fairy count?

TWW's Tingle can easily just be the Hyrulian parallel of Termina's Tingle, and he could have created his legend simply after hearing about the Hero of Time's exploits in Hyrule. No one in Termina really seemed to know about the passage to Hyrule either, and the Tingle seen in MM would have likely been long dead by the time TWW took place.

The others include the fact that the legend of the Hero of Time says that he was a child.

Actually, the Japanese text said that he was a youth, acknowledging that he was a young man.

緑衣を身にまとった若者が　何処からともなく　現れました。
?a youth clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere.
?a young boy clothed in green appeared as if from nowhere.

若者は　退魔の剣をふるい　悪しき者を封じ　王国に　光を取り戻したといいます。
Wielding the blade of demons' bane and sealing the evil one away, the youth is said to have restored light to the kingdom.
Wielding the blade of evil's bane, he sealed the dark one away and gave the land light.

時を越えてあらわれた若者を　民は「時の勇者」と呼び　称えました
Having emerged by crossing time, the youth was praisingly called "Hero of Time" by the people.
This boy, who traveled through time to save the land, was known as the Hero of Time.

若者の話は、言の葉で語り継がれ　やがて　伝説となった頃?
The youth's tale was passed down, and at length, when it became legend?
The boy's tale was passed down through generations until it became legend?

- OoT Link is correctly described as a youth or young man.

However, in MM we are told that in the months before Link made his way to Termina, he was renowned throughout the land as the Hero of Time.

Actually, it would appear that only the royal family passed down that tale.

ハイラルに伝わる王家の伝説　そこに一人の少年が登場する
In Hyrule, a legend is handed down by the royal family in which a lone boy appears
In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy...

Exactly. The Hero of Time was separated from the elements that made him a hero when he left Hyrule, and the Triforce of Courage was split into fragments.

If it was just a matter of leaving Hyrule, why would Link going back in time be mentioned in regards to him losing the ToC? The time travel itself would have meant nothing in your theory. Besides, the one thing that allowed Link to be the hero was his age, which he would have lost when he traveled back in time.

そして　時の勇者としての　資格ある者だけが　台座から 抜き放つことの　できる剣。
And only one who is qualified to be the Hero of Time can take it from the pedastal.
Only one worthy of the title of "Hero of Time" can pull it from the Pedestal of Time....

しかし? お前は　時の勇者として まだ　おさなすぎた?
But... You were still too young to be the Hero of Time...
However, you were too young to be the Hero of Time....

それゆえ　お前の魂は 七年の間　ねむりつづけた?
For that reason, your spirit has slept for seven years...
Therefore, your spirit was sealed here for seven years.

そして今、時の勇者としての 目覚めの時が　おとずれたのじゃ。 どうじゃ?　己が運命、理解したか?
And now the time for you to awaken as the Hero of Time has come. So... do you understand your fate?
And now that you are old enough, the time has come for you to awaken as the Hero of Time! Well, do you understand your destiny?

However, did Link lose the Master Sword, the source of his title, when he went back in time? No, he appeared right in front of it when the light dimmed.

Beaming down next to it doesn't mean that it still belongs to him.

Did the Triforce of Courage split up as he traveled back in time?

According to TWW, yes.

Well he did still have the mark of the Triforce of Courage on the back of his hand when he went to see child Zelda again...

See the "Divine Prank" theory, which explains the splitting of the Triforce on the CT.

Yeah, the people 7 years in the future knew that the Hero of Time traveled back in time, and never appeared to them again. This says nothing about a split in time.

In a linear timeline, Link would have still been in Hyrule (growing up during those seven years), so mentioning the time travel would be meaningless. Link would have also presumably had descendants in a linear timeline as well, meaning that there should have been someone to face Ganon in TWW's backstory to boot.

We don't even know for sure that Link ever came back to Hyrule from Termina at the end of MM (though it does look like he was at least still traversing the Lost Woods looking for Navi at the end of the game).

Characters in TP refer to a previous hero who wore the green tunic and cap, indicating that OoT/MM Link did return to Hyrule and lived out his days as a minor hero.

[Volvagia_slayer]

@ Average Gamer - First of all, thank you for being the first person here to present their case in a non-belligerent way. I really do appreciate that.

TWW's Tingle can easily just be the Hyrulian parallel of Termina's Tingle, and he could have created his legend simply after hearing about the Hero of Time's exploits in Hyrule.

This is true. However, the legend does specifically say that Tingle met the Hero of Time when he was lost, and Tingle, floating on a balloon, gave him a map in order to chart his ways. If we do go by the theory that Hyrule's Tingle merely made up a legend that perfectly matched what happened in MM, then we are assuming a bit and putting a lot of the theory in chance and coincidence.

As for no one knowing about the passage from Hyrule to Termina, Link had to make his way back to the Lost Woods, didn't he? And the Happy Mask Salesman seemed to be able to travel between the two at will. Then there's the Deku Butler's son (and Deku Butler) who had found the passage. So it's not a huge assumption to say that the passage was likely used by more people than just Link and the HMS (though, granted, it is still an assumption).

The others include the fact that the legend of the Hero of Time says that he was a child.

Actually, the Japanese text said that he was a youth, acknowledging that he was a young man.

Hmm. Does it matter then that, regardless of what word is used (seeing as how "youth" could mean "child" or "young adult"), we see Outset Island celebrate the hero's exploit at a certain age, i.e. the age that TWW Link has reached in the game's beginning? After all, unless the Japanese version discounts the whole "upon the age of the hero" thing explaining why TWW Link got the green tunic on that particular birthday, then it would make sense that we are to assume that TWW Link is of the same age as the hero celebrated in legend. In order for the "youth" in the legend to be the adult Hero of Time, then that would mean that TWW Link is the same age as the adult Hero of Time. Is it not more likely that TWW Link is the same age as the child Hero of Time, and therefore "youth" is a reference to the child in this case?

However, in MM we are told that in the months before Link made his way to Termina, he was renowned throughout the land as the Hero of Time.

Actually, it would appear that only the royal family passed down that tale.

But what about the quote you just provided?

時を越えてあらわれた若者を　民は「時の勇者」と呼び　称えました
Having emerged by crossing time, the youth was praisingly called "Hero of Time" by the people.

According to this quote, the Hero of Time emerged from his time traveling adventure and was then called the Hero of Time by the people. Unless "the people" is slang for "the Royal Family", it seems to be suggesting that a much larger group recognized the child's deeds and title as the Hero of Time.

If it was just a matter of leaving Hyrule, why would Link going back in time be mentioned in regards to him losing the ToC?

It isn't though. Not directly, anyway. We are told that Link went back in time. We are then told he left Hyrule. We are then told the Triforce of Courage was separated. We aren't told what caused the piece to be separated, but if we're assuming that what we're being told happened in chronological order, then the Triforce of Courage didn't split until Link left Hyrule. The fact that it still appears on his hand at the end of OoT in the child ending certainly doesn't hurt that conclusion either.

Beaming down next to it doesn't mean that it still belongs to him.

I agree with you, but being physically separated from the sword and owning it are two different things.

See the "Divine Prank" theory, which explains the splitting of the Triforce on the CT.

Can you link me? In my split timeline theory, I've always been of the mind that the Triforce remains unsplit in the CT since no one ever touched it. The marks in TP were just marks showing that those three characters were chosen by the gods and blessed with special powers because of it (since that's what the English version of the game says, anyway).

In a linear timeline, Link would have still been in Hyrule (growing up during those seven years)

He wouldn't possibly still be traveling? He did leave Hyrule for MM, and he didn't go back to Hyrule at the end. He continued his searching. If Link was to die or just never come back to Hyrule before the seven years were up, Link wouldn't have still been in Hyrule in a linear timeline.

Characters in TP refer to a previous hero who wore the green tunic and cap, indicating that OoT/MM Link did return to Hyrule and lived out his days as a minor hero.

This is assuming that the legend of the hero was never passed around to the people of Hyrule though, right? If this is true, then in a split timeline scenario you would be absolutely right. In a linear timeline scenario, you still have the fact that the adult Link did his thing normally before going back in time, and he was probably remembered throughout Hyrule post adult-ending OoT.

Again, thank you for being level-headed with me. I appreciate it.

Edited by Volvagia_slayer, 20 November 2010 - 01:50 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

This is a stupid argument. Refusing to acknowledge the validity of other people's points doesn't make your argument at all credible, and it was debunked when other people brought it up fucking years ago. You're wrong, move on like everyone else has from the sinking ship.

Surely this wasn't addressed at me or else you haven't been reading my posts. The people on this board are the ones who refuse to move on. My first post says that I'm not here to start debating again and that I come from a place that mostly believes in the split timeline. This is the same place you guys are saying is full of horrible theorists, yet they believe the same as you do. Do you just like shouting hypocritical accusations?

Incase you're daft, I was pretty much barking at everyone for doing this stupid argument. You're just as bad, though, for engaging in the argument. If you're not here to start debating again, don't bring up a subject and don't respond to arguments.

BTW, there's more to what makes someone a good or bad theorist than whether or not they believe in a split timeline; content aside, it's usually the means of how they got to their conclusions that is argued over.

[Volvagia_slayer]

If you're not here to start debating again, don't bring up a subject and don't respond to arguments.

Well as you can probably tell then, I didn't bring up the subject in the first place, so there's only the responding to the arguments thing that needs to be taken care of. It's just a little difficult when the person you're arguing against is guessing what you believe, and arguing against that, when their guesses are completely wrong. You tend to want to correct that person so that they are presenting valid arguments instead of arguments that are based off of incorrect guesses about what you think.

[SOAP]

@ Average Gamer - First of all, thank you for being the first person here to present their case in a non-belligerent way. I really do appreciate that.

I hope you don't think the rest of us are all billegerent. This is exactly why I HATE this particular thread. It used to be fun but now it just seems people post here to make pot shots at theorists on other boards behind their backs.

Average gamer is one of the most level-headed theorists around here, though. I disagree with him though that Daphnes actually mentions the timeline being split within the game. The quote is a little more ambiguous than that and could be interpreted either way. In either case, how would he even know the timeline was split. He may be the King of Hyrule but he's not a god. In a split timeline I find it hard to believe any characters in either side of split could be aware that there's another reality existing alongside theres or that a split occured. Not without breaking the fourth wall somehow. That's something that you need creator commentary for. TWW is a weird case. There's references to both the adult and child timeline. For some it's easier to write off the child timeline references as Easter Eggs. For others they're too hard to ignore since they're also used as explanations for the existence for some of TWW's characters. For me, TP clears away any doubt that there must be a split since both games refer to OoT yet it's very hard for one to follow the other. Not that it's impossible. Just hard.

[Average Gamer]

I've been over this before and I have stuff to do, so this will be my last post.

This is true. However, the legend does specifically say that Tingle met the Hero of Time when he was lost, and Tingle, floating on a balloon, gave him a map in order to chart his ways.

However, considering that TWW's Tingle specializes in maps and also uses a balloon, he could have easily just made that up for his story. After all, some Hyrulian and Terminian parallels were quite similar to each other.

If we do go by the theory that Hyrule's Tingle merely made up a legend that perfectly matched what happened in MM,

Nothing Tingle says really ties to MM, as he doesn't mention Termina or anything like that, and balloons and maps are what TWW's Tingle specializes in as well.

As for no one knowing about the passage from Hyrule to Termina, Link had to make his way back to the Lost Woods, didn't he? And the Happy Mask Salesman seemed to be able to travel between the two at will.

Link and the HMS are some of the only people who know about the passage. They seem to be able to navigate the Lost Woods as well, something a Terminian presumably couldn't do.

Then there's the Deku Butler's son (and Deku Butler) who had found the passage.

They didn't get very far in it though, and getting through the Lost Woods is another problem. Also, the Butler's son may have been dragged down there by Skull Kid; just nitpicking.

Hmm. Does it matter then that, regardless of what word is used (seeing as how "youth" could mean "child" or "young adult"), we see Outset Island celebrate the hero's exploit at a certain age, i.e. the age that TWW Link has reached in the game's beginning?

The people of Outset don't seem to specifically recall the age at which Link began his journey, as TWW's Link is 12 while OoT/MM Link was 7-8 (according to Miyamoto) or 9-10 (according to other sources). However, considering that TWW's Link is on the verge of becoming a teenager and Outset's tradition is that those who reach that age are considered adults, the Hero of Time was probably still meant to be a young adult in the legend.

According to this quote, the Hero of Time emerged from his time traveling adventure and was then called the Hero of Time by the people.

Yes, and the fact that it doesn't match up to MM's intro suggests that the timeline was in fact split. Heck, OoT/MM Link didn't even appear to have a title in MM and TP.

It isn't though. Not directly, anyway.

Daphnes connects the two without using a comma, hyphen, etc., implying that the time travel was actually important.

I agree with you, but being physically separated from the sword and owning it are two different things.

But we're given no reason to believe that Link still owns the blade at that time. He isn't even old enough to be the Hero of Time in OoT's ending.

Can you link me?

I don't have a link on hand, but this is the gist of it.

When Zelda sent Link to the CT, the ToC couldn't go with him as there would be two ToCs in one timeline. However, Link was the chosen, worthy bearer of the ToC when Zelda attempted to send him to the other timeline. As a result, at the point when he crossed timelines, the AT ToC left him while the CT ToC went to "fill the gap," so to speak. As a result, the CT Triforce was split without anyone knowing it, setting up for TP. Ganon, not knowing that he had the ToP, would not have used it, explaining how he could have been defeated and imprisoned for the execution scene. The theory also explains why Ganon and the Sages were surprised to see that Ganon had the ToP, along with the usage of "divine prank." It's unlikely that the Sages, being holy men in a fantasy world with a number of visible, acknowledged gods, would have used such as term as a mere metaphor or figure of speech.

In my split timeline theory, I've always been of the mind that the Triforce remains unsplit in the CT since no one ever touched it. The marks in TP were just marks showing that those three characters were chosen by the gods and blessed with special powers because of it (since that's what the English version of the game says, anyway).

The marks seen in TP behave exactly like Triforce marks, even bestowing the same powers/enhancements that the pieces gave in OoT and TWW. Seeing as how the terms used in TP were also used to refer to the pieces in OoT and TWW, it's most likely that the pieces were split up and present in TP.

He wouldn't possibly still be traveling? He did leave Hyrule for MM, and he didn't go back to Hyrule at the end.

Actually, Link did return to Hyrule in MM. He's seen on Epona in the Lost Woods, riding back the way he came in the ending. TP even implies that he acted as a minor hero in Hyrule.

He continued his searching.

Possibly, but TP suggests that Link eventually stopped searching, and considering the HMS' final words in MM, Link may have just figured that he didn't need to find Navi.

If Link was to die or just never come back to Hyrule before the seven years were up, Link wouldn't have still been in Hyrule in a linear timeline.

That's pure speculation though; we might as well argue that both LA and OoX Link died at sea, and TP gives us reason to believe that Link returned to Hyrule as an adult anyway.

This is assuming that the legend of the hero was never passed around to the people of Hyrule though, right?

The tale passed down by the Royal Family certainly doesn't appear to have spread through Hyrule in TP.

In a linear timeline scenario, you still have the fact that the adult Link did his thing normally before going back in time, and he was probably remembered throughout Hyrule post adult-ending OoT.

By "normally," are you suggesting that, upon growing up naturally, Link would have gone through the temples anyway? If so, why would he go back in time after living out his childhood?

Again, thank you for being level-headed with me. I appreciate it.

No problem, but I really think that you're fighting a lost battle. At least it's good to know that most of the IGN board now believes in the split timeline.

I hope you don't think the rest of us are all billegerent. This is exactly why I HATE this particular thread. It used to be fun but now it just seems people post here to make pot shots at theorists on other boards behind their backs.

To be honest, I've noticed that too, and I've admittedly contributed to that a bit.

Average gamer is one of the most level-headed theorists around here, though.

Thanks.

I disagree with him though that Daphnes actually mentions the timeline being split within the game. The quote is a little more ambiguous than that and could be interpreted either way. In either case, how would he even know the timeline was split. He may be the King of Hyrule but he's not a god.

Well, Daphnes is descended from OoT Zelda, the person who apparently split the timeline to begin with. Knowledge of that act may have been passed down through the royal family.

Edited by Average Gamer, 20 November 2010 - 06:30 PM.

[ganonlord6000]

The people on this board are the ones who refuse to move on. My first post says that I'm not here to start debating again and that I come from a place that mostly believes in the split timeline. This is the same place you guys are saying is full of horrible theorists, yet they believe the same as you do. Do you just like shouting hypocritical accusations?

This is part of the reason why I have tried to bring more theories to this site like my Ganon theory. I (and a few others) do think that the people here at LA really need to open up more to theories. Plus, I would like to see different views on various things like the timeline here. That is part of the reason I've been over at ZU a lot lately. They're anything but closed minded to other ideas, and those arguements are a lot of fun except for when a mirror arguement gets involved. Especially when I mention that I am trying to avoid one. Then I get out of there. Not to mention there is rarely a shortage of new topics there. If only this place was currently like that.

[Volvagia_slayer]

I hope you don't think the rest of us are all billegerent. This is exactly why I HATE this particular thread. It used to be fun but now it just seems people post here to make pot shots at theorists on other boards behind their backs.

That has been exactly my experience with the majority of users I've encountered here, unfortunately. Thankfully I'm now seeing that not everyone here is like that.

In either case, how would he even know the timeline was split. He may be the King of Hyrule but he's not a god. In a split timeline I find it hard to believe any characters in either side of split could be aware that there's another reality existing alongside theres or that a split occured. Not without breaking the fourth wall somehow.

Agreed. It would take someone outside of time in the Zelda universe (like a god) or outside the Zelda universe (like the creators) to confirm a split. However, that's just if you want confirmation via quotes. There can only really be concrete in-game evidence outside of character quotes in the game that causes the split or the games that are directly related to that game, but OoT, MM, and TWW don't really address OoT's time travel that well...

However, considering that TWW's Tingle specializes in maps and also uses a balloon, he could have easily just made that up for his story.

TWW Tingle could have made it up, true. There's still the coincidence thing that you have to overlook, though. And did TWW's Tingle really use a balloon? I don't remember that... And if we wanted to be nit-picky, he didn't give the Hero of Time maps either, he just translated maps for the Hero of Winds, but I'm just mentioning that so that we've got all of our bases covered.

Nothing Tingle says really ties to MM, as he doesn't mention Termina or anything like that, and balloons and maps are what TWW's Tingle specializes in as well.

As far as I remember the balloon thing is exclusive to MM (and technically OoA and FSA) Tingle. There's also the fact that the Tingle mentioned in the Legend of the Fairy was specifically said to be a thirty-five year old who was born near a lake, which is almost the exact description we're given of MM Tingle by his father.

They didn't get very far in it though, and getting through the Lost Woods is another problem. Also, the Butler's son may have been dragged down there by Skull Kid; just nitpicking.

True.

The people of Outset don't seem to specifically recall the age at which Link began his journey, as TWW's Link is 12 while OoT/MM Link was 7-8 (according to Miyamoto) or 9-10 (according to other sources).

What is the source of TWW Link's age? I can't find anything online confirming it one way or another, just a bunch of fan theories and guesses.

Yes, and the fact that it doesn't match up to MM's intro...

Are you referring back to the whole "royal family" versus "the people" thing here? If so, this makes sense in a split timeline scenario. In a linear timeline scenario where time isn't changed, you still have people knowing about the Hero of Time before Link wakes up as an adult, and this would match up and be explained in that case.

Daphnes connects the two without using a comma, hyphen, etc., implying that the time travel was actually important.

Ah, I see what you're saying. But if you'll allow me to be devil's advocate here for a moment, Daphnes does also say that "it is said", implying that what he has repeated is a legend and not necessarily 100% fact. Couple that with the fact that you could make the argument that Link doesn't separate from the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage (i.e. the elements that made him the hero) until after he has already time traveled back in time, and it's clear that what Daphnes is saying doesn't completely match up with what we experience during OoT.

But we're given no reason to believe that Link still owns the blade at that time. He isn't even old enough to be the Hero of Time in OoT's ending.

I agree. I wasn't trying to suggest that he did own the blade. I was saying that "being separated" from the Master Sword could have meant physically being separated from it rather than simply not owning it any more. When Link was sent back in time, he no longer owned the Master Sword, but we aren't shown him leaving it behind in the future (which is consequently a problem with any timeline ). We are only shown Link being separated from the Master Sword after he has already returned to the past. And we still know that at the very least the Royal Family still viewed him as a hero, despite him not being old enough to be one.

When Zelda sent Link to the CT, the ToC couldn't go with him as there would be two ToCs in one timeline.

It's not the same exact ToC though, so is this necessarily a problem? OoT has already shown that it's not afraid of hosting time travel paradoxes that only really work with Novikov's Self-Consistency Principle (e.g. the Song of Storms), so there's no problem other than preference that really prevents the future ToC from coexisting with the present ToC. Besides, the split timeline kind of has to assume that two child Links are present at the same time. (What I mean by this is that there are only three ways to look at Zelda sending Link back in time. 1) Zelda rewinds Link through time, allowing him to go back to the past, make a different decision, and change time. However, this would erase all of the events of the adult timeline so that they never happened. This option doesn't work unless you view TWW and all games that follow it as "what-if" games... events that would have happened if Zelda had not sent the Hero of Time back in time. 2) Zelda actually sends Link back in time, independent of the actual flow of time. In other words, Link is plucked out of time completely, and then dropped back down somewhere in the past. When Zelda did this, the child Link who was already in the past and had not yet time traveled ceased to exist. He just vanished into thin air so that the time traveling Link would be the only Link in existence. This would allow the adult portion to continue on since it had already been created and not erased by rewinding, but the time traveling Link would end up changing time, creating a new, coexisting timeline independent of the one he was plucked out of by Zelda's song. The obvious problem with this one is that there's no explanation for the present Link's sudden disappearance except that "the universe did it to avoid a paradox". However, given the Song of Storms paradox, it would appear that OoT's universe doesn't mind paradoxes. 3) Basically the same thing as option 2, except that the present Link doesn't disappear upon future Link's appearance back in the past. With this view you can either go in the direction that will support the split, i.e. future Link did something that prevented present Link from playing out the same events that future Link did his first time around, or the direction that supports a linear view, i.e. future Link does nothing except tell Zelda what's going to happen, spend a few months with her while present Link is asleep in the Sacred Realm, and then future Link heads off to Termina years before present Link wakes up (and future Link either never comes back to Hyrule or never makes himself known in Hyrule as a hero anymore after those 7 years are up).

Sorry, I kind of went on a tangent there.

However, Link was the chosen, worthy bearer of the ToC when Zelda attempted to send him to the other timeline. As a result, at the point when he crossed timelines, the AT ToC left him while the CT ToC went to "fill the gap," so to speak. As a result, the CT Triforce was split without anyone knowing it, setting up for TP.

So here you're suggesting that in the AT, we have the ToC split up in 8 pieces throughout the land, Zelda and the Royal Family still with the ToW, and sealed away Ganondorf still with the ToP, setting up for TWW, but in the CT, Link keeps the ToC when he goes to Termina, Zelda gets the ToW (despite not having a mark on her hand when Link goes to visit her), and Ganondorf gets the ToP? So TP Link is therefore OoT Link's descendant or something?

It's unlikely that the Sages, being holy men in a fantasy world with a number of visible, acknowledged gods, would have used such as term as a mere metaphor or figure of speech.

It wouldn't have been a metaphor or figure of speech if the goddesses specifically blessed the three characters with powers that were not the Triforce. It would literally be a "divine prank" that the goddesses gave Ganondorf the power to survive his execution at the very moment he was being executed. It's just kind of a coincidence if Ganondorf accidentally got the ToP and didn't realize it until he was executed. There is no prank involved because it wasn't something a divinity actively and willfully caused in that scenario.

The marks seen in TP behave exactly like Triforce marks, even bestowing the same powers/enhancements that the pieces gave in OoT and TWW. Seeing as how the terms used in TP were also used to refer to the pieces in OoT and TWW, it's most likely that the pieces were split up and present in TP.

Alright, sorry, but you've completely lost me here. The marks in TP lit up their respective pieces part of the time and then the whole thing part of the time. The marks in TP dimmed whenever a character was knocked out/killed. In OoT and TWW, only the respective pieces of the mark were ever lit up. The whole mark never lit up in either of those games. Also, in TWW once the marks lit up, they stayed lit up. They never dimmed out randomly. I also don't remember any real powers or enhancements that the Triforce pieces gave in OoT and TWW besides possibly transforming OoT Ganondorf into Ganon, but I could be forgetting something... Finally, the terms used in TP were different from the terms used in OoT and TWW to refer to the pieces (at least in the English version; as you know, I'm not as familiar with the Japanese versions). In OoT and TWW the pieces were said to contain the power of the gods. In TP it was just said that the characters were "chosen by the gods". Zelda also says at one point that they were "granted special powers by the goddesses", but not the goddesses' powers.

Actually, Link did return to Hyrule in MM.

Yeah, I even said that in my post. Sorry for not being clear enough. Because the Lost Woods is a realm that connects to other realms, and this is the only possibly-Hyrulean place we see Link in, we don't know that Link goes back to the actual kingdom of Hyrule after MM. We just know that he's still riding around in this borderline area at the game's end. It's just as much speculation that Link gives up on Navi as it is that he continues searching for her, isn't it?

Possibly, but TP suggests that Link eventually stopped searching

Is this just the "minor hero" thing you keep mentioning?

The tale passed down by the Royal Family certainly doesn't appear to have spread through Hyrule in TP.

And you say that just because they never refer to him as the Hero of Time, right? But Renado does say that "countless tales" are told of the ancient hero in Hyrule. If OoT Link was just a minor hero to the people of TP, why would they tell "countless tales" about him? Of course if we're playing devil's advocate on your side of the fence, we could certainly say that he was a major hero before TP, he just wasn't the Hero of Time (though that would throw a little bit of confusion into the whole Master Sword thing since it apparently was created so that the Hero of Time would be the first one to remove it from its pedestal, possibly suggesting that OoT Link had wielded the Master Sword prior to TP Link, regardless of split or single (unless that Hero of Time bit that Rauru said just wasn't true).

In a linear timeline scenario, you still have the fact that the adult Link did his thing normally before going back in time, and he was probably remembered throughout Hyrule post adult-ending OoT.

By "normally," are you suggesting that, upon growing up naturally, Link would have gone through the temples anyway? If so, why would he go back in time after living out his childhood?

No, I meant by "normally" that the events of OoT played out. Link still fell asleep, woke up 7 years later, and did everything in the adult events of OoT before going back in time. That's all. I wasn't saying that child Link grew up over 7 years and then played out the events of OoT.

No problem, but I really think that you're fighting a lost battle. At least it's good to know that most of the IGN board now believes in the split timeline.

It's not anything recent. It's been that way for a long time. The linear theorists are either just a bit more vocal or active (but just because we prefer one theory doesn't mean that we don't have theories for both).

Well, Daphnes is descended from OoT Zelda, the person who apparently split the timeline to begin with. Knowledge of that act may have been passed down through the royal family.

But would OoT Zelda have had any knowledge of the split? She knew that she sent Link back in time, and she knew her timeline wasn't erased, so assuming she was knowledgeable enough about time travel, she might could have guessed that Link did something that caused a second timeline to form, but she would have no way of knowing that to be true (and again, that's assuming she understands a thing about alternate universes).

@ ganonlord - Well I'm glad to hear that. I just wish that if you're being genuine that you wouldn't mention me every time you go on a different board to complain about IGN (I know of three separate sites where this has happened, though I have no idea how long ago it was; I just ignored the others; if you're done with all that, then there's no hard feelings though).

[Average Gamer]

I'll respond to what Volvagia_slayer said in a PM when I have the time. Getting back on track:

http://www.zeldauniv...ine-theory.html

Some posters on ZU have recently been theorizing that some games only occurred due to Veran's actions in OoX and were essentially erased from time when OoX Link defeated her.

[Snow]

TWW Tingle could have made it up, true. There's still the coincidence thing that you have to overlook, though. And did TWW's Tingle really use a balloon? I don't remember that... And if we wanted to be nit-picky, he didn't give the Hero of Time maps either, he just translated maps for the Hero of Winds, but I'm just mentioning that so that we've got all of our bases covered.

I still don't see how an Easter egg story told by a deranged 35 year old who spends his days selling badly drawn maps while thinking he's a fairy can be considered relevant to the timeline in any way. It doesn't have anything to do with WW's plot and can only be read by those who have a Gameboy Advance, a GBA/GC adapter and decide to use Tingle tuner in the Tower of the Gods; it's pretty much the very definition of the term "Easter egg". How something like that can be considered more credible than the word of the very creators themselves is beyond me.

Ah, I see what you're saying. But if you'll allow me to be devil's advocate here for a moment, Daphnes does also say that "it is said", implying that what he has repeated is a legend and not necessarily 100% fact. Couple that with the fact that you could make the argument that Link doesn't separate from the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage (i.e. the elements that made him the hero) until after he has already time traveled back in time, and it's clear that what Daphnes is saying doesn't completely match up with what we experience during OoT.

The KoRL stating that the Hero of Time lost the ToC and the Master Sword when he travelled back in time is completely true since they were both left behind on the Adult Timeline when OoT Link travelled back in time. Whether or not Link was near the Master Sword after being sent back is irrelevant, since the KoRL doesn't have any idea about what happened to Link after he was sent back in time.

I agree. I wasn't trying to suggest that he did own the blade. I was saying that "being separated" from the Master Sword could have meant physically being separated from it rather than simply not owning it any more. When Link was sent back in time, he no longer owned the Master Sword, but we aren't shown him leaving it behind in the future (which is consequently a problem with any timeline ). We are only shown Link being separated from the Master Sword after he has already returned to the past. And we still know that at the very least the Royal Family still viewed him as a hero, despite him not being old enough to be one.

The problem is that the Hero of Time clearly used the Master Sword to defeat Ganondorf in WW's backstory. Child Link couldn't have used the Master Sword, since it'd merely transport him seven years into the future once again. Thus, WW's back story can't possibly be referring to Child Link.

It's not the same exact ToC though, so is this necessarily a problem? OoT has already shown that it's not afraid of hosting time travel paradoxes that only really work with Novikov's Self-Consistency Principle (e.g. the Song of Storms), so there's no problem other than preference that really prevents the future ToC from coexisting with the present ToC. Besides, the split timeline kind of has to assume that two child Links are present at the same time. (What I mean by this is that there are only three ways to look at Zelda sending Link back in time. 1) Zelda rewinds Link through time, allowing him to go back to the past, make a different decision, and change time. However, this would erase all of the events of the adult timeline so that they never happened. This option doesn't work unless you view TWW and all games that follow it as "what-if" games... events that would have happened if Zelda had not sent the Hero of Time back in time. 2) Zelda actually sends Link back in time, independent of the actual flow of time. In other words, Link is plucked out of time completely, and then dropped back down somewhere in the past. When Zelda did this, the child Link who was already in the past and had not yet time traveled ceased to exist. He just vanished into thin air so that the time traveling Link would be the only Link in existence. This would allow the adult portion to continue on since it had already been created and not erased by rewinding, but the time traveling Link would end up changing time, creating a new, coexisting timeline independent of the one he was plucked out of by Zelda's song. The obvious problem with this one is that there's no explanation for the present Link's sudden disappearance except that "the universe did it to avoid a paradox". However, given the Song of Storms paradox, it would appear that OoT's universe doesn't mind paradoxes. 3) Basically the same thing as option 2, except that the present Link doesn't disappear upon future Link's appearance back in the past. With this view you can either go in the direction that will support the split, i.e. future Link did something that prevented present Link from playing out the same events that future Link did his first time around, or the direction that supports a linear view, i.e. future Link does nothing except tell Zelda what's going to happen, spend a few months with her while present Link is asleep in the Sacred Realm, and then future Link heads off to Termina years before present Link wakes up (and future Link either never comes back to Hyrule or never makes himself known in Hyrule as a hero anymore after those 7 years are up).

The way I've always seen it, Link wasn't physically transported back in time at the end of OoT; only his "spirit" was sent back and returned to Child Link's body the moment before he was about to pull the Master Sword, which I suppose is similar to the idea of him "replacing" Link on the Child Timeline. I don't see why that idea should be dismissed as being speculative when it explains pretty much every inconsistency regarding the Ocarina time travel.

Yeah, I even said that in my post. Sorry for not being clear enough. Because the Lost Woods is a realm that connects to other realms, and this is the only possibly-Hyrulean place we see Link in, we don't know that Link goes back to the actual kingdom of Hyrule after MM. We just know that he's still riding around in this borderline area at the game's end. It's just as much speculation that Link gives up on Navi as it is that he continues searching for her, isn't it?

Why would he not return? The moment he leaves Termina, he ends up in Hyrule. Why would he avoid leaving the forest for the rest of his life?

And you say that just because they never refer to him as the Hero of Time, right? But Renado does say that "countless tales" are told of the ancient hero in Hyrule. If OoT Link was just a minor hero to the people of TP, why would they tell "countless tales" about him? Of course if we're playing devil's advocate on your side of the fence, we could certainly say that he was a major hero before TP, he just wasn't the Hero of Time (though that would throw a little bit of confusion into the whole Master Sword thing since it apparently was created so that the Hero of Time would be the first one to remove it from its pedestal, possibly suggesting that OoT Link had wielded the Master Sword prior to TP Link, regardless of split or single (unless that Hero of Time bit that Rauru said just wasn't true).

The fact that items like the Hero's Bow exist in TP implies that Link did return to Hyrule and continue living as a hero after MM. You can't really tell countless tales abound a single deed anyway.

No, I meant by "normally" that the events of OoT played out. Link still fell asleep, woke up 7 years later, and did everything in the adult events of OoT before going back in time. That's all. I wasn't saying that child Link grew up over 7 years and then played out the events of OoT.

But if the Adult Timeline was erased when Link travelled back in time he never actually did all of that, which creates a time paradox. How could he have remembered something that never happened?

Edited by Snow, 21 November 2010 - 08:30 AM.

[Volvagia_slayer]

I still don't see how an Easter egg story told by a deranged 35 year old who spends his days selling badly drawn maps while thinking he's a fairy can be considered relevant to the timeline in any way.

It's only relevant in that we have a mention to the child timeline in the adult timeline which should be impossible in an actual split.

How something like that can be considered more credible than the word of the very creators themselves is beyond me.

The creators have said that OoT has two endings, and that TP is "parallel", whatever that means. They've never said that the Legend of the Fairy, something they included in the games purposefully, is non-canon. Though I can understand why someone would want to argue that it isn't.

The KoRL stating that the Hero of Time lost the ToC and the Master Sword when he travelled back in time is completely true since they were both left behind on the Adult Timeline when OoT Link travelled back in time.

You can only assume this to be true if you already assume that the split timeline is true. We are never shown the Master Sword being left behind, and Link still has it on his back when he is being teleported back in time (though obviously for either timeline to work, it does have to be left in the future), and we never see the ToC leave Link in the future. We just see it still on his hand in the past.

Whether or not Link was near the Master Sword after being sent back is irrelevant, since the KoRL doesn't have any idea about what happened to Link after he was sent back in time.

Then again, the KoRL isn't the one who this knowledge originated from, is he? The KoRL tells Link, "It has been said," meaning that the KoRL wasn't the first to say it. He's operating solely on hearsay.

The problem is that the Hero of Time clearly used the Master Sword to defeat Ganondorf in WW's backstory. Child Link couldn't have used the Master Sword, since it'd merely transport him seven years into the future once again. Thus, WW's back story can't possibly be referring to Child Link.

I'm not saying that the child Link defeated Ganon with the Master Sword. The legend just says that the hero defeated Ganon. Both adult Link and future child Link fit that description.

The way I've always seen it, Link wasn't physically transported back in time at the end of OoT; only his "spirit" was sent back and returned to Child Link's body the moment before he was about to pull the Master Sword, which I suppose is similar to the idea of him "replacing" Link on the Child Timeline. I don't see why that idea should be dismissed as being speculative when it explains pretty much every inconsistency regarding the Ocarina time travel.

I guess I overlooked that theory because it doesn't explain what happened to adult Link's body. Was it just left behind, spirit-less, in the AT despite the fact that his entire body seemed to be enclosed in the blue time-travel light?

Why would he not return? The moment he leaves Termina, he ends up in Hyrule. Why would he avoid leaving the forest for the rest of his life?

He seemed to still be continuing his search for Navi. We have exactly the same amount of evidence suggesting that Link ended up in another land searching for Navi as we do that he died during his search as we do that he gave up and headed back to Hyrule. However, given we have WAY more possibilities that have him not returning to Hyrule, the chance that he did return to Hyrule is much smaller in comparison.

The fact that items like the Hero's Bow exist in TP implies that Link did return to Hyrule and continue living as a hero after MM.

What about the Hero's Shade? We know that he was a hero in the land of Hyrule prior to TP Link. Unless you believe that the Hero's Shade is OoT Link, then that means we have other heroes in Hyrule between OoT Link and TP Link.

But if the Adult Timeline was erased when Link travelled back in time he never actually did all of that, which creates a time paradox. How could he have remembered something that never happened?

This is what I was explaining in that big paragraph. It doesn't make any sense, no matter what theory you support, that the AT was erased. It should still be intact in order for either timeline theory to work (unless you want to explain away inconsistencies).

And since college has got me busy pretty much throughout the rest of the semester, I'll check in on you guys then (unless I stumble across some free time before that).

[ganonlord6000]

@ ganonlord - Well I'm glad to hear that. public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gifI just wish that if you're being genuine that you wouldn't mention meevery time you go on a different board to complain about IGN public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif(I know of three separate sites where this has happened, though I haveno idea how long ago it was; I just ignored the others; if you're donewith all that, then there's no hard feelings though).

Don't worry. I'm done with that. My days of bashing IGN are done. I don't remember doing that for a while, or bashing IGN on any other sites. If you found me bashing IGN on any other sites it was definitely a while ago.

http://www.zeldauniv...ine-theory.html

Some posters on ZU have recently been theorizing that some games onlyoccurred due to Veran's actions in OoX and were essentially erased fromtime when OoX Link defeated her.

Another triangular timeline? Well, this one is unique. I have to give it credit for that. I always enjoy reading these.

[Snow]

It's only relevant in that we have a mention to the child timeline in the adult timeline which should be impossible in an actual split.

How does that make it anymore relevant to WW's plot? It's still nothing more than an esoteric Easter egg.

The creators have said that OoT has two endings, and that TP is "parallel", whatever that means. They've never said that the Legend of the Fairy, something they included in the games purposefully, is non-canon. Though I can understand why someone would want to argue that it isn't.

They've said that Ocarina of Time has two endings, that TP takes place after the Child ending and that WW takes place after the Adult ending, which clearly confirms the existence of a timeline split. Also, they've never had to explain that Easter eggs aren't canon before, so why should they do it in this particular instance?

You can only assume this to be true if you already assume that the split timeline is true.

You said that KoRL's statement doesn't match up with what actually happened. My point is that they clearly do match up in a split timeline.

Then again, the KoRL isn't the one who this knowledge originated from, is he? The KoRL tells Link, "It has been said," meaning that the KoRL wasn't the first to say it. He's operating solely on hearsay.

My point still stands. Whether or not Link was near the Master Sword after being sent back is irrelevant, since no one has any idea about what happened to Link after he was sent back in time.

I'm not saying that the child Link defeated Ganon with the Master Sword. The legend just says that the hero defeated Ganon. Both adult Link and future child Link fit that description.

WW's backstory explicitly says that the Hero of Time wielded "the blade of evil's bane", i.e. the Master Sword.

I guess I overlooked that theory because it doesn't explain what happened to adult Link's body. Was it just left behind, spirit-less, in the AT despite the fact that his entire body seemed to be enclosed in the blue time-travel light?

It wasn't left behind or anything. His whole body was sent back in time, but not as a physical entity. He was transported into his child body, retaining all his memories but nothing else.

He seemed to still be continuing his search for Navi. We have exactly the same amount of evidence suggesting that Link ended up in another land searching for Navi as we do that he died during his search as we do that he gave up and headed back to Hyrule. However, given we have WAY more possibilities that have him not returning to Hyrule, the chance that he did return to Hyrule is much smaller in comparison.

MM's ending clearly shows him going home. Also, didn't you just say that you didn't think he died after MM? I find it rather nonsensical to believe that he'd stay in the woods for the rest of his life. There aren't really that many possibilities other than him returning to Hyrule at some point in his life.

What about the Hero's Shade? We know that he was a hero in the land of Hyrule prior to TP Link. Unless you believe that the Hero's Shade is OoT Link, then that means we have other heroes in Hyrule between OoT Link and TP Link.

The Hero's Bow is said to have belonged to "the ancient Hero" a term used when talking about TP Link's tunic as well. They're clearly referring to OoT/MM Link.

This is what I was explaining in that big paragraph. It doesn't make any sense, no matter what theory you support, that the AT was erased. It should still be intact in order for either timeline theory to work (unless you want to explain away inconsistencies).

It may not make sense if you believe in a linear timeline, but for a split timeline it makes perfect sense. The AT wasn't erased after Link went back in time and altered the past, which means that there are two separate continuities following after OoT's ending. In other words: a split timeline.

[Average Gamer]

http://www.zeldauniv...n-and-fate.html

Our need for truly kooky theories has been answered.

Snow, Volvagia_slayer, you should probably take the conversation to PM's so as not to derail the thread. I'll probably send my PM tomorrow night.

[SOAP]

His whole body was sent back in time, but not as a physical entity. He was transported into his child body, retaining all his memories but nothing else.

You do know that second sentence completely contradicts the other, right?

It would be easier to say that his physical body just vanished, as the universe attempted to correct itself after the split. In either case, I kinda get the impression that that particular scene with Link and Zelda wasn't entirely corporeal in the first place. Maybe Link actually died from the battle and what we saw was Zelda spiriting his soul back into the past one last time to get a second chance at life.