818 replies to this topic

[Average Gamer]

Yeah, it's tame for Lex, but still kooky in that he sees the English scripts as some sort of last-minute edits. He ignores the fact that the Japanese games never have script changes in later versions/releases, which means that the English scripts are not in fact edits.

Edit: Now Lex is apparently arguing that every Makai, world of darkness, dark realm, etc. in the series is just the corrupted Sacred Realm. His reasoning? Plot holes.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/112836-dat-table-timeline-4.html

Edited by Average Gamer, 13 August 2010 - 11:12 PM.

[ganonlord6000]

Yeah, it's tame for Lex, but still kooky in that he sees the English scripts as some sort of last-minute edits. He ignores the fact that the Japanese games never have script changes in later versions/releases, which means that the English scripts are not in fact edits.

Edit: Now Lex is apparently arguing that every Makai, world of darkness, dark realm, etc. in the series is just the corrupted Sacred Realm. His reasoning? Plot holes.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/112836-dat-table-timeline-4.html

Now that is definitely typical for Lex. After reading only half of that page, I noticed that you two were arguing over the same thing over and over. I still can't see how anyone can connect ANYTHING from ST to old Hyrule since Old Hyrule is gone forever on the AT (which could be seen as the true timeline). I've heard of similarities between Malladus and Ganon (which is probably symbolizing that Malladus, like Ganon, was a symbol of the past that shouldn't exist anymore), but the Dark Realm connection is new to me. Did anyone else notice that there were tracks all over ST's DR except where the final fight against Malladus was? At seeing that, returning to the ONM forums doesn't sound that bad...

[Average Gamer]

http://www.zeldauniv...tml#post3624927

This guy thinks that AoL is the backstory of TWW, with Link's death and Ganon's revival being the canon ending.

[MikePetersSucks]

Now that's just depressing.

[ganonlord6000]

http://www.zeldauniv...tml#post3624927

This guy thinks that AoL is the backstory of TWW, with Link's death and Ganon's revival being the canon ending.

That theory is just plain sad. Since when is a game over considered canon? I once saw something similar a few years ago regarding ALTTP. In this theory, ALTTP takes place on the AT after OOT and states that if Link failed to stop Ganon and he took over (if I remember ALTTP correctly, it was mentioned that would happen if Link died before making it to Ganon or while fighting Ganon), that would lead to TWW. If Link succeeded, that would lead to LOZ/AOL.

Regarding the theory you just mentioned, even worse than that theory is that the guy completely ignores everything that debunks it and comes up with ideas that are even worse than the original idea that actually shows how flawwed it really is. Don't even get me started on the SS theorizing threads I saw on ZU today alone.

[Smertios]

http://www.zeldauniv...s-no-split.html

Not really a kooky theory, but still, lol at Ganondwarf

[Average Gamer]

http://www.zeldauniv...s-included.html

This is kookiness from the mod Veyrael more than anything. The creator of this thread isn't really theorizing at all and the Future Zelda board exists for this stuff, but Veyrael moved it from Future Zelda to Zelda Theorizing.

[ganonlord6000]

Geez. This place has been pretty dead lately. Anyway, check this out. There are kooky ideas all over this thread!

[Average Gamer]

Yeah, Beemnorv's claiming that ALttP, OoX, etc. were meant to happen but erased from existence due to Zelda splitting the timeline in OoT, and now Lex is saying that Zethar-II's ALttP manual translation on Zelda Legends is wrong.

[ganonlord6000]

Yeah, Beemnorv's claiming that ALttP, OoX, etc. were meant to happen but erased from existence due to Zelda splitting the timeline in OoT, and now Lex is saying that Zethar-II's ALttP manual translation on Zelda Legends is wrong.

Wow. That's a new one. I guess it's like ALTTP taking place between OOT and TWW. Not to mention all of the post ST ALTTP placement. Apparantly, ZU can't seem to get that the MS is gone on the AT.

[Average Gamer]

Yeah, Beemnorv's claiming that ALttP, OoX, etc. were meant to happen but erased from existence due to Zelda splitting the timeline in OoT, and now Lex is saying that Zethar-II's ALttP manual translation on Zelda Legends is wrong.

Wow. That's a new one. I guess it's like ALTTP taking place between OOT and TWW. Not to mention all of the post ST ALTTP placement. Apparantly, ZU can't seem to get that the MS is gone on the AT.

Not only that, ZU doesn't even realize that Old Hyrule was the only place connected to the Sacred Realm, meaning that ALttP literally can't happen in New Hyrule. People are also making feeble statements such as "But the ST mountain wasn't not named Death Mountain." They claim that any lake can be named Lake Hylia as well, ignoring the fact that the word Hylian, which Hylia is apparently derived from, is forgotten in the new world.

[Pinecove]

Yeah, Beemnorv's claiming that ALttP, OoX, etc. were meant to happen but erased from existence due to Zelda splitting the timeline in OoT, and now Lex is saying that Zethar-II's ALttP manual translation on Zelda Legends is wrong.

Actually, Beemnorv is playing Devil's advocate on that one. He believes in a much different timeline.
And Lex doesn't seem to be implying that at all. He IS arguing interpretation though.....

[Average Gamer]

Actually, Beemnorv is playing Devil's advocate on that one. He believes in a much different timeline.

Ah. His signature featured his "erased games" timeline when he made those posts, so I thought that was his timeline. It's still a strange idea though.

And Lex doesn't seem to be implying that at all. He IS arguing interpretation though.....

I don't see how. Lex just outright said that Zethar-II's translation about the Knights buying time for the Sages was wrong.

Curiously, the Japanese text never says anything about the knights giving the sages time. (Yes, I realize one of the translations says so, but that translation is wrong.)

Edited by Average Gamer, 02 September 2010 - 05:06 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Lex also doesn't speak Japanese, so who gives a shit what he has to say?

[Pinecove]

Ah. His signature featured his "erased games" timeline when he made those posts, so I thought that was his timeline. It's still a strange idea though.

Nah, he's just having some fun.

Lex also doesn't speak Japanese, so who gives a shit what he has to say?

Lex IS learning Japanese actually, so you may want to think before you speak.

At any rate:
http://zeldadungeon.net/forum/showthread.php?12544-The-Multiple-Deaths-of-Ganondorf!-(Timeline-Construction-Helper)/page3
Starts around post 32: some guy is trying to argue that Ganondorf did not die at the end of TP.

Edited by Destiny, 02 September 2010 - 05:29 PM.

[Average Gamer]

Lex IS learning Japanese actually

True, but we have no idea how well Lex is doing in his class, and considering the shady reputation he's built up for years, along with the fact that he usually tries to heavily twist everything, I doubt that his arguments will gain any significant credibility from that.

Edited by Average Gamer, 02 September 2010 - 06:51 PM.

[Pinecove]

He is doing quite well actually, with his translations usually being close to MJJ's.
And for the love of god, will you PLEASE stop insulting Lex? So what, his views don't coincide with yours. Isn't it enough that despite what he may or may not have been back then he's changed NOW?

Edited by Destiny, 02 September 2010 - 09:54 PM.

[Average Gamer]

He is doing quite well actually, with his translations usually being close to MJJ's.

Wasn't one of MJJ's translations bested by something Jarsh and Showsni used an online translating program on?

And for the love of god, will you PLEASE stop insulting Lex? So what, his views don't coincide with yours.

It's not that. For years he has: based theories off of other theories; desperately scrambled for tiny details whenever he was losing an argument, often shooting himself in the foot in the process; vanished from the web for days at a time when losing a debate, eventually returning days later and acting like the debate never happened; denied that the LA translators translated things correctly, even when they thoroughly explained what they did while MPS backed them up; refused to believe that other people might have plausible theories; tried to back out of threads he was losing by calling "truces" even when he was blatantly being crushed; dismissed critical details as plot holes; etc.

I used to respect the guy, but his theories have been going downhill for a while now.

Edited by Average Gamer, 02 September 2010 - 10:36 PM.

[Pinecove]

Wasn't one of MJJ's translations bested by something Jarsh and Showsni used an online translating program on?

It was when MJJ had a million things to do, including moving to Tokyo, but she has since revised that translation.
And by the way if that was a subtle hint on the credibility of our translators, you can go to hell.

It's not that. For years he has: based theories off of other theories; desperately scrambled for tiny details whenever he was losing an argument, often shooting himself in the foot in the process; vanished from the web for days at a time when losing a debate, eventually returning days later and acting like the debate never happened; denied that the LA translators translated things correctly, even when they thoroughly explained what they did while MPS backed them up; refused to believe that other people might have plausible theories; tried to back out of threads he was losing by calling "truces" even when he was blatantly being crushed; dismissed critical details as plot holes; etc.

I used to respect the guy, but his theories have been going downhill for a while now.

Actually, that's only YOUR interpretation of events. I've watched the debates between you and Lex and sometimes yes, you do win, but at other times it just has to do with interpretation. Regardless, I'm talking about what he is NOW not what he used to be.

And so help me, if Impossible comes into this I'm leaving, because the last thing I want is a two page rant on something I barely give a shit about.

[MikePetersSucks]

Lex IS learning Japanese actually, so you may want to think before you speak.

Yea, well, he tried to claim I didn't know Japanese when he didn't know kanji from katakana, so excuse me if I don't think he's deserving of my trust. Regardless of what you think of him, Lex is a confirmed and proven liar, and even if he did perfect translations, I wouldn't trust it because I wouldn't be able to trust that he didn't let his personal bias into things.

And for the love of God, can you stop sucking up and overeagerly defending everyone so damn much? It's what prolongs all these stupid arguments you hate. No one here thinks very favorably of Lex and you're not going to change that.

[Pinecove]

Yea, well, he tried to claim I didn't know Japanese when he didn't know kanji from katakana, so excuse me if I don't think he's deserving of my trust.

That was BEFORE he took Japanese lessons.

Regardless of what you think of him, Lex is a confirmed and proven liar, and even if he did perfect translations, I wouldn't trust it because I wouldn't be able to trust that he didn't let his personal bias into things.

On some issues? Yes sure.
On all issues? No.

And for the love of God, can you stop sucking up

I never sucked up to anyone,

and overeagerly defending everyone so damn much?

I'm not fucking eager to do this.

No one here thinks very favorably of Lex and you're not going to change that.

I know nobody here likes Lex. But in all honesty, I'm telling you all to suck up your pride, put your pasts behind you and WORK TOGETHER.
If not than I have nothing more to day.

-Destiny

[Raien]

For what it's worth, I tried working with Lex once. It took literally every free hour of every day for two months, with posts reaching the most ridiculous lengths, just to persuade him that the phrase "sealed away from the world" was not suggesting that Ganon was sealed in the Dark World at the end of FSA. And that was after I shot down theories like "Ganon's soul and darkness were separated by the Four Sword". Two years later, Lex brought up the argument again as if that two-month debate never happened. I've since noted he does that a lot.

The only way to work with Lex is to accept two things:

1) That the basic facets of literature and storytelling are not applicable to The Legend of Zelda.
2) That any interpretation of the subject matter must be given respect simply because it exists.

In other words, trying to hold a rational argument with Lex is about as productive as explaining to a teabagger why Obama is not a radical Christian Muslim socialist fascist anti-Christ. These kinds of people are immune to basic logic and reasoning.

Edited by Raien, 03 September 2010 - 06:17 PM.

[ganonlord6000]

Yea, well, he tried to claim I didn't know Japanese when he didn't know kanji from katakana, so excuse me if I don't think he's deserving of my trust.

That was BEFORE he took Japanese lessons.

Regardless of what you think of him, Lex is a confirmed and proven liar, and even if he did perfect translations, I wouldn't trust it because I wouldn't be able to trust that he didn't let his personal bias into things.

On some issues? Yes sure.
On all issues? No.

And for the love of God, can you stop sucking up

I never sucked up to anyone,

and overeagerly defending everyone so damn much?

I'm not fucking eager to do this.

No one here thinks very favorably of Lex and you're not going to change that.

I know nobody here likes Lex. But in all honesty, I'm telling you all to suck up your pride, put your pasts behind you and WORK TOGETHER.
If not than I have nothing more to day.

-Destiny

I really think that EVERYONE here on LA shouldn't base some of the people on this site on the way people were a few years ago. I've seen some of Lex's theories and some of them aren't that bad. At least not as bad as everyone here makes him out to be. And as I mentioned earlier, this site really needs to let other people post their theories without having everyone here trying to pull it apart. And we need more arguments here, to. Like people with different views on the timeline.

At any rate:
http://zeldadungeon....n-Helper)/page3
Starts around post 32: some guy is trying to argue that Ganondorf did not die at the end of TP.

This isn't the first time I saw something like this. When I was on ONM a few months ago, Kingconnor and a few others were trying to argue that Ganon didn't die in TP as well, even though it is very clear he's dead(@ Destiny: did he have any ideas like that when he was on ZU?). I even mentioned the Zant connection (that Zant would keep coming back to life as long as Ganon was alive) as well as the fact that the ToP left him, and they came up with pointless counterarguments that really showed how flawed the idea was. As for the multiple Ganon discussion in that thread you mentioned, whoever was arguing that apparently never payed attention to the desert level in FSA, or the game itself at all.

[Pinecove]

I really think that EVERYONE here on LA shouldn't base some of the people on this site on the way people were a few years ago. I've seen some of Lex's theories and some of them aren't that bad. At least not as bad as everyone here makes him out to be. And as I mentioned earlier, this site really needs to let other people post their theories without having everyone here trying to pull it apart. And we need more arguments here, to. Like people with different views on the timeline.

Thankyou.

This isn't the first time I saw something like this. When I was on ONM a few months ago, Kingconnor and a few others were trying to argue that Ganon didn't die in TP as well, even though it is very clear he's dead(@ Destiny: did he have any ideas like that when he was on ZU?).

KingConnor is still around?

From what I remember (which is very little) he tried saying ALttP was first in the timeline, TWW didn't take place on the AT, OoS and OoA were on seperate ends of the timeline...crazy stuff like that.

As for the multiple Ganon discussion in that thread you mentioned, whoever was arguing that apparently never payed attention to the desert level in FSA, or the game itself at all.

Well I think I shut them up with the entire "Ganon being born for the first time" in the seal war, but we'll have to wait and see.

[MikePetersSucks]

That was BEFORE he took Japanese lessons.

No fucking shit.

On some issues? Yes sure.
On all issues? No.

The point is, I have absolutely no reason to trust and get along with someone who's proven that they'll lie to get their way.

I know nobody here likes Lex. But in all honesty, I'm telling you all to suck up your pride, put your pasts behind you and WORK TOGETHER.
If not than I have nothing more to day.

It has nothing to do with pride; atleast not in my case. He's dishonest, he's condescending, he's disrespectful, and he refuses to budge on anything unless he personally likes the alternative. Lex is somebody who formulates the conclusion he wants and then combs evidence to support it instead of the other way around, and does this to the point of claiming he knows more than other people do in fields they're experts in. He does not debate in good and civil spirit, and that sort of person is a waste of everyone's time. Period.

[Average Gamer]

It was when MJJ had a million things to do, including moving to Tokyo, but she has since revised that translation.

Alright. Still, as MPS pointed out, Lex is so opinionated and prone to twisting things that I wouldn't trust him very much even if he became a translator.

Actually, that's only YOUR interpretation of events. I've watched the debates between you and Lex and sometimes yes, you do win, but at other times it just has to do with interpretation.

I wasn't just referring to my debates with Lex. I was referring to everything, such as the example Raien mentioned.

Regardless, I'm talking about what he is NOW not what he used to be.

He really hasn't changed much.

[ganonlord6000]

quote name='Destiny' date='03 September 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1283559612' post='540095']

I really think that EVERYONE here on LA shouldn't base some of the people on this site on the way people were a few years ago. I've seen some of Lex's theories and some of them aren't that bad. At least not as bad as everyone here makes him out to be. And as I mentioned earlier, this site really needs to let other people post their theories without having everyone here trying to pull it apart. And we need more arguments here, to. Like people with different views on the timeline.

Thankyou.

You're welcome. Isn't this the second time in the last few pages that I mentioned this?

This isn't the first time I saw something like this. When I was on ONM a few months ago, Kingconnor and a few others were trying to argue that Ganon didn't die in TP as well, even though it is very clear he's dead(@ Destiny: did he have any ideas like that when he was on ZU)

KingConnor is still around?

From what I remember (which is very little) he tried saying ALttP was first in the timeline, TWW didn't take place on the AT, OoS and OoA were on seperate ends of the timeline...crazy stuff like that.

Oh yes. I saw him on the Official Nintendo Magazine forums when I was on there for a few days. And I've seen those theories somewhere before. That was about 2 or 3 years ago. I don't even remember where I saw them.

As for the multiple Ganon discussion in that thread you mentioned, whoever was arguing that apparently never payed attention to the desert level in FSA, or the game itself at all.

Well I think I shut them up with the entire "Ganon being born for the first time" in the seal war, but we'll have to wait and see.

Knowing ZD, it is very hard to tell.

Edited by ganonlord6000, 04 September 2010 - 12:25 PM.

[Average Gamer]

http://www.zeldauniv...d-seal-war.html

Straw Grasping: Gameplay Interview Edition.

[ganonlord6000]

http://www.zeldauniv...d-seal-war.html

Straw Grasping: Gameplay Interview Edition.

Wow. Right when I was starting to like ZU, you have to show this. Amazing how the fan base can ignore interviews, or misinterpret them, as that interview wasn't about the story at all. Especially since FSA has many connections to ALTTP, like the fact that this is the only time any Zelda map is identical to another. Hey, AG, didn't someone at ZU show a picture of the FSA beta map? If I remember correctly, that map was very close to ALTTP's map, with only a minor change to the final version.

After seeing this, I'm glad I wasn't a part of the Zelda community (or even interested in Zelda) before LA was hacked. I doubt I could've dealt with many of the members from that time.

[Pinecove]

Hey, AG, didn't someone at ZU show a picture of the FSA beta map?

That was me.