818 replies to this topic

[Jarsh]

^
I suppose so. His logic for where certain games should go isn't that bad. It's just his logic for why a merge is intended by the developers is what's bad.

[Pinecove]

And his timeline is? Please tell me it isn's still linear.

Speaking of bad logic, Lex is still at it.
Trying to say that TWW made OoT-ALttP possible to have games between them now with OoT still being the SW.

[Jarsh]

Adult Timeline (AT)
....................WW - PH - ST......LOZ - AOL.....OOX
....../...................................................................\
OOT.....................................................................LA - MC - FS - FSA.....ALTTP
......\.................................................................../
........MM.......TP............................................OOX
Child Timeline (CT)

Actually, he doesn't really say it's his timeline, but it's the "most-accepted one". Given how much he's defending it, it probably is his, though.

[ganonlord6000]

^
I suppose so. His logic for where certain games should go isn't that bad. It's just his logic for why a merge is intended by the developers is what's bad.

So is his logic regarding TP. According to kingconnor, it isn't actually confirmed that Ganon died in TP. Isn't it extremly clear that he died in TP? Not to mention he misinterpreted the japanese FSA quote regarding Ganon. We are in an arguement regarding FSA's Ganon not being OOT Ganon.

Quote

Adult Timeline (AT)
....................WW - PH - ST......LOZ - AOL.....OOX
....../...................................................................\
OOT.....................................................................LA - MC - FS - FSA.....ALTTP
......\.................................................................../
........MM.......TP............................................OOX
Child Timeline (CT)

Actually, he doesn't really say it's his timeline, but it's the "most-accepted one". Given how much he's defending it, it probably is his, though.

This timeline is flawed in so many ways. How is a merge even possible? The only games people use to support that are the oracles, and a linked game makes it clear that they have the same Link. as well as other characters. Same thing with games after ST. Isn't the official name for ST's Hyrule New Hyrule? So he was a member of ZU? That explains a lot. Who knows? maybe he's friends with Volvagia Slayer? I still remember when he was a member here and got into arguements with nearly every member of this site in this section.

Edited by ganonlord6000, 14 April 2010 - 06:00 PM.

[Person]

ST's Hyrule isn't called "New Hyrule," but it's apparent from playing the game that it's only been settled for a generation or two. Its founding is still in recent memory. Stuff associated with Old Hyrule like the Triforce and the Sacred Realm aren't even mentioned. The Triforce only appears on ancient gold pieces, leftovers from Old Hyrule.

[ganonlord6000]

ST's Hyrule isn't called "New Hyrule," but it's apparent from playing the game that it's only been settled for a generation or two. Its founding is still in recent memory. Stuff associated with Old Hyrule like the Triforce and the Sacred Realm aren't even mentioned. The Triforce only appears on ancient gold pieces, leftovers from Old Hyrule.

Not to mention that the only way to the SR is gone forever. And how clear is Ganon's death in TP?

[Person]

ST's Hyrule isn't called "New Hyrule," but it's apparent from playing the game that it's only been settled for a generation or two. Its founding is still in recent memory. Stuff associated with Old Hyrule like the Triforce and the Sacred Realm aren't even mentioned. The Triforce only appears on ancient gold pieces, leftovers from Old Hyrule.

Not to mention that the only way to the SR is gone forever. And how clear is Ganon's death in TP?

I'm going to say that Ganon is dead for now at least. Remember he had an "I'll be back" monologue that was cut from the game just before release, so he might show up in future games set after TP.

[Average Gamer]

Get a load of this everyone:

http://www.zeldauniv...on-aol-map.html

[Fin]

One theory that's got a bit of a following on ZU is the idea that the Sacred Realm and Hyrule were once the same land, which were then separated after the events of TP's backstory.

http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/zelda-theorizing/108459-creation-seperation-of-the-sacred-realm-and-its-implications.html

This isn't as kooky as some of the others here I guess (I can at least see where people are coming from here), but there just isn't a lot of solid ground for it. I think one of my favourite parts of the two debates I've had over this is one of smallville boy's posts in this thread.

I know that some unexpert theorists doesn't know that hyrule and the sacred realm were in the same dimension in the begining of hyrule history, but it doesn't matter, theorists like erimgard,bitterlime and other expert theorists know it as well.

Guys, I don't think I want to aspire to expert status anymore.

Edited by fin, 16 April 2010 - 08:23 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Uh, that Sacred Realm/Hyrule theory is...kind of my fault, probably. There's some translations I've helped with that honestly imply that the realms were divided as part of the sealing of the Triforce by the Ancient Sages, and that beforehand one could literally just walk to the damn thing.

That guy with the AOL map is smoking crack. I'm convinced this has to be the case so I don't hurt someone.

[Fin]

Uh, that Sacred Realm/Hyrule theory is...kind of my fault, probably. There's some translations I've helped with that honestly imply that the realms were divided as part of the sealing of the Triforce by the Ancient Sages, and that beforehand one could literally just walk to the damn thing.

Oh? That sounds kind of interesting. What translations are these?

[Person]

Uh, that Sacred Realm/Hyrule theory is...kind of my fault, probably. There's some translations I've helped with that honestly imply that the realms were divided as part of the sealing of the Triforce by the Ancient Sages, and that beforehand one could literally just walk to the damn thing.

Oh? That sounds kind of interesting. What translations are these?

I think it was something like how the Japanese version of the game used the phrase "Hyrule, the holy land" where the English version just used "Sacred Realm." That whole cutscene is just a breeding ground for weird fan theories, any how.

On another note, a guy is going around Zelda Wiki trying to argue that Gustaf saying that he was king of Hyrule "countless ages ago" proves that TMC must come after OoT. Several other users have called him out on this as bullcrap, but he's gotten into a really bad edit war on several pages because of it. His essential argument is that because the Deku Tree Sprout says that the king unified Hyrule in the war before OoT, that means that Hyrule did not exist before then. Never mind the implications that the "unification" referred to bringing the other tribes into Hyrule, not the whole cloth creation of the kingdom. I also pointed him to Eiji Aonuma's Four Swords quote, but he refused to believe it, saying that Aonuma recanted it, despite the fact that he can't show me a link to where he ever did that.

Edited by Person, 16 April 2010 - 03:09 PM.

[Nerushi]

Yeah. Talk about brickhead. I pointed out facts that Hyrule and the Royal Family existed way prior before OoT, and he either completely ignores it or says it's irrelevant cause the Kingdom of Hyrule and its government was for the first time established a decade before OoT. Never mind that these context doesn't exist in the unified quote. Despite arguing about a government being established, his other quote about King Gustaf talking about him being a king a long time ago. What the **** did he think the Royalty of Hyrule was doing before then?`Just being royalty for the heck of it? I mean damn... I never seen such feign ignorance before.

[Person]

Yeah. Talk about brickhead. I pointed out facts that Hyrule and the Royal Family existed way prior before OoT, and he either completely ignores it or says it's irrelevant cause the Kingdom of Hyrule and its government was for the first time established a decade before OoT. Never mind that these context doesn't exist in the unified quote. Despite arguing about a government being established, his other quote about King Gustaf talking about him being a king a long time ago. What the **** did he think the Royalty of Hyrule was doing before then?`Just being royalty for the heck of it? I mean damn... I never seen such feign ignorance before.

I tried to tell him about how the king had an alliance with the Zoras before then, and the Zora king was sixteenth in his line. But no, the kingdom of Hyrule has only existed for ten years. This guy, Link87, is a bit like the Lex of Zelda Wiki. I can't count the number of stupid arguments I've had with him. He once kept reverting a picture of the Lost Woods because he thought it was non-canon, even though the picture came from the European guide book. If you tick him off, he will make it his life's mission to annoy you to death.

[Volvagia_slayer]

Adult Timeline (AT)
....................WW - PH - ST......LOZ - AOL.....OOX
....../...................................................................\
OOT.....................................................................LA - MC - FS - FSA.....ALTTP
......\.................................................................../
........MM.......TP............................................OOX
Child Timeline (CT)

Actually, he doesn't really say it's his timeline, but it's the "most-accepted one". Given how much he's defending it, it probably is his, though.

This timeline is flawed in so many ways. How is a merge even possible? The only games people use to support that are the oracles, and a linked game makes it clear that they have the same Link. as well as other characters. Same thing with games after ST. Isn't the official name for ST's Hyrule New Hyrule? So he was a member of ZU? That explains a lot. Who knows? maybe he's friends with Volvagia Slayer? I still remember when he was a member here and got into arguements with nearly every member of this site in this section.

Man, you sure do love to talk about people behind their backs. You do remember that you were the only person I ever got into an argument with on this board, right? Everyone else was capable of participating in legitimate discussions. As for your post, I've never heard of the guy, and it's pretty obvious that his timeline is fairly seriously messed up.

I really want to blame that GameTrailers timeline for the whole Oracles merging thing. Before that video I had never heard the theory that those games merged the timeline. But after? It seems like almost every new timeline theorist wants to incorporate that into their theory.

Edited by Volvagia_slayer, 17 April 2010 - 11:48 PM.

[Pinecove]

Uh, that Sacred Realm/Hyrule theory is...kind of my fault, probably. There's some translations I've helped with that honestly imply that the realms were divided as part of the sealing of the Triforce by the Ancient Sages, and that beforehand one could literally just walk to the damn thing.

Wait. Sooo.... The SR and Hyrule WERE once the same dimension, or was the SR simply not protected by the Temple of Time?

[MikePetersSucks]

I don't know, it's pretty vague. The impression I got, what with "The Goddesses left it in Hyrule" and "The way was hidden and sealed" and whatnot, I like to think that they were once the same dimension, and then the Ancient Sages hid it in a pocket dimension. It certainly seems to fit what we know, what with the Goddesses apparently wanting people to try and seize it, and the Triforce regulating reality and stuff.

What really says it for me is that the Sacred Realm, where they placed the Triforce, was the place where the Goddesses touched the ground with their feet when they did their work. Somehow, I can't form the mental image that the Goddesses created Hyrule, then made a parallel dimension and stood on it in order to look at Hyrule, you know?

[Fin]

I don't know, it's pretty vague. The impression I got, what with "The Goddesses left it in Hyrule" and "The way was hidden and sealed" and whatnot, I like to think that they were once the same dimension, and then the Ancient Sages hid it in a pocket dimension. It certainly seems to fit what we know, what with the Goddesses apparently wanting people to try and seize it, and the Triforce regulating reality and stuff.

The impression I always got was that every time people talk about it being left in Hyrule that's just shorthand for "the holy land that's hidden in Hyrule." I dunno, it's kind of a neat idea I guess, but I think sealing the holy land in another dimension sounds like way too important a part of the back story for the developers to only vaguely hint at it a couple of times.

What really says it for me is that the Sacred Realm, where they placed the Triforce, was the place where the Goddesses touched the ground with their feet when they did their work. Somehow, I can't form the mental image that the Goddesses created Hyrule, then made a parallel dimension and stood on it in order to look at Hyrule, you know?

Actually, that is kind of weird, now that I think about it.

Edited by fin, 19 April 2010 - 07:03 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

The impression I always got was that every time people talk about it being left in Hyrule that's just shorthand for "the holy land that's hidden in Hyrule."

But it's not actually hidden in Hyrule, is it? There's hidden portals that lead to it, but that's completely not the same thing, or we could say Termina was hidden inside Hyrule.

I think sealing the holy land in another dimension sounds like way too important a part of the back story for the developers to only vaguely hint at it a couple of times.

They could've just assumed we'd of gotten it from "They sealed the Holy Land and locked the gate" and whatnot, I don't know. It's not the first time the developers completely glossed over huge chunks of backstory though; this is Zelda, after all.

[ganonlord6000]

Adult Timeline (AT)
....................WW - PH - ST......LOZ - AOL.....OOX
....../...................................................................\
OOT.....................................................................LA - MC - FS - FSA.....ALTTP
......\.................................................................../
........MM.......TP............................................OOX
Child Timeline (CT)

Actually, he doesn't really say it's his timeline, but it's the "most-accepted one". Given how much he's defending it, it probably is his, though.

This timeline is flawed in so many ways. How is a merge even possible? The only games people use to support that are the oracles, and a linked game makes it clear that they have the same Link. as well as other characters. Same thing with games after ST. Isn't the official name for ST's Hyrule New Hyrule? So he was a member of ZU? That explains a lot. Who knows? maybe he's friends with Volvagia Slayer? I still remember when he was a member here and got into arguements with nearly every member of this site in this section.

Man, you sure do love to talk about people behind their backs. You do remember that you were the only person I ever got into an argument with on this board, right? Everyone else was capable of participating in legitimate discussions. As for your post, I've never heard of the guy, and it's pretty obvious that his timeline is fairly seriously messed up.

I really want to blame that GameTrailers timeline for the whole Oracles merging thing. Before that video I had never heard the theory that those games merged the timeline. But after? It seems like almost every new timeline theorist wants to incorporate that into their theory.

I was joking. And I do remember you getting into a few arguements with a few others here, but that is the point of these forums And there have been very few arguements here. And I do blame gametraillers for the merge. They clearly never played the oracles as a linked game.

[Fin]

But it's not actually hidden in Hyrule, is it? There's hidden portals that lead to it, but that's completely not the same thing, or we could say Termina was hidden inside Hyrule.

I think it's just a Hylian quirk, to be honest. In WW the king talks about Hyrule as though it was the holy land even during the OoT era (he refers to it as the kingdom where the power of the gods slept) and the term holy land is applied to Hyrule even during the present day part of TP by that random old guy in Castle Town. I guess Hylians like to gloss over the fact that the way into the holy land is hidden in their kingdom and just go "lol we're the holy land gaize." Haughty gits.

They could've just assumed we'd of gotten it from "They sealed the Holy Land and locked the gate" and whatnot, I don't know.

I don't recall them ever using a phrase like that though. LttP just tells us the Triforce was left in a land hidden somewhere, and that Ganon's thieves somehow opened an entrance. OoT tells us the same basic thing, only this time it was Rauru who "connected a path". TP doesn't bother to mention the seal at all. Unless I'm missing something (which I could be - I'm much too lazy to do a more thorough search through the translations right now) we're never really told anything about how the holy land was sealed; just that some groups managed to open the door. To me it comes across more like it was always a separate plane, and people figured out a portal.

[Showsni]

Maybe the triforce itself seperated the SR from Hyrule proper? It seems to be some kinf of semi autonomous thing in ALttP.

[Pinecove]

http://www.zeldawiki.org/Death_Sword

Theory section. Ganondorf was master of it? What?

[Volvagia_slayer]

I was joking.

My apologies for not getting the joke then, though that might be understandable since the joke seemed to be at my expense. [insert_equivalent_of_IGN's_face_peace_here].

It really saddens me how much of an impact that GameTrailers timeline seems to have had on the timeline scene (and a negative impact at that). Their other retrospective videos seemed to do so well from what I remember, but that last one that tried to explain the timeline not only screwed up in their placements but also just in basic facts about the games like The Minish Cap's back story, and things like that. How do you mess up something that simple?

Slightly more on-topic: Is it just me, or does a large portion of this thread seem to not be so much about people's favorite kooky theories but rather their least favorite stupid theories? I can honestly only think of two theories that fit the topic title, and one of those two was made purposefully as a joke (it posited that Link was a tree). So the only legitimate kooky theory that I've liked enough to consider my favorite that I've read is the Majora's Mask/Tower of Babel theory. http://www.zeldainfo...ajoras-mask.php It seems fairly ridiculous to me, but it's very well thought out, and the stretches that the author makes (while far enough out there for me to consider the theory "kooky") aren't so far as to make me simply dismiss the theory outright.

Edited by Volvagia_slayer, 20 April 2010 - 01:21 AM.

[ganonlord6000]

I was joking.

My apologies for not getting the joke then, though that might be understandable since the joke seemed to be at my expense. [insert_equivalent_of_IGN's_face_peace_here].

It really saddens me how much of an impact that GameTrailers timeline seems to have had on the timeline scene (and a negative impact at that). Their other retrospective videos seemed to do so well from what I remember, but that last one that tried to explain the timeline not only screwed up in their placements but also just in basic facts about the games like The Minish Cap's back story, and things like that. How do you mess up something that simple?

Slightly more on-topic: Is it just me, or does a large portion of this thread seem to not be so much about people's favorite kooky theories but rather their least favorite stupid theories? I can honestly only think of two theories that fit the topic title, and one of those two was made purposefully as a joke (it posited that Link was a tree). So the only legitimate kooky theory that I've liked enough to consider my favorite that I've read is the Majora's Mask/Tower of Babel theory. http://www.zeldainfo...ajoras-mask.php It seems fairly ridiculous to me, but it's very well thought out, and the stretches that the author makes (while far enough out there for me to consider the theory "kooky") aren't so far as to make me simply dismiss the theory outright.

We do talk about stupid theories a lot in this thread. As for the gametraillers timeline, the rest of the retrospective was good, but their timeline was another story.

[Kamina]

Clearly MM's Tower of Babel thingy: all that Stonetower Temple things with the people hating and mocking the Goddesses....
I mean, yes it was creative and a lot made sense, but seriously, its too much for Zelda to be true.

We do talk about stupid theories a lot in this thread. As for the gametraillers timeline, the rest of the retrospective was good, but their timeline was another story.

It's pre TP, what did you expect? And as good as their reviews are, they are certainly no "fullblooded" analysts.

Edited by Kyuubi no Youko, 20 April 2010 - 11:17 AM.

[Person]

I remember a very fanfic-style timeline theory from a website long since inactive (it was last updated to include TWW) that used the typical "Hyrule unfloods" explanation that was common at the time to explain a single timeline. What makes it kookier than most was that it had Link and Zelda find the Triforce and wish all of the water away. Way to completely miss the point, people! Especially since that's precisely what Ganondorf wanted to do!

[MikePetersSucks]

Well, might as well. Having Hyrule unflood at ALL is missing the point, so might as well go for the long haul.

[SOAP]

LOL, this guy takes the cake:

http://forums.zeldai...lly-die-in-oot/

Edited by SOAP, 26 April 2010 - 04:37 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

Lol, that's retarded.

Also, SOAP, that is the best little GAIA thing ever.