278 replies to this topic

[Average Gamer]

The them being green = evil is the whole point of the "demon king" symbolism...

But the Twinrova sisters are green too and they're basically unknown lackeys tucked away in a corner of the world. While the green skin is probably meant to indicate that Ganondorf is evil, it doesn't really look like it's an exclusive trait meant to set him up as a Maou.

As I said above, Ganondorf's ears look somewhat like Hylian points after he gains the ToP, and in TWW his ears are even the same as the ears of the other characters. Even if they aren't meant to be Hylian points, we know that Ganondorf only gained those ears after he gained the ToP.

[Fin]

Even if they aren't meant to be Hylian points, we know that Ganondorf only gained those ears after he gained the ToP.

Unless you're partial to the "prank" interpretation.

Frankly, I think the whole thing is too vague to really support a theory with. I quite like the idea of the ears representing Ganon's demonic nature though.

[SOAP]

I think it's to emphasize his demonic nature, same with the dark skin color. But I like the idea that he starts taking on Hylian traits when he obtain the ToP. Hylains are supposed to be chosen by the gods so maybe those chosen to weild a piece of the Triforce gets transformed, at least partially" to Hylians. There's not much at all to suggest this but it's interesting. What alos interesting is that the only two other games besides OoT that have a human-form Ganondorf, TWW and ALttP, not only have Ganondorf with pointy ears from the beginning of the game but also there's no other Gerudo around. They're not even mentioned at all, except in the name of TP's desert.

[Average Gamer]

But I like the idea that he starts taking on Hylian traits when he obtain the ToP. Hylains are supposed to be chosen by the gods so maybe those chosen to weild a piece of the Triforce gets transformed, at least partially" to Hylians. There's not much at all to suggest this but it's interesting.

That's kind of how I see it. The ears aren't supposed to be some massive theorizing detail on their own, just something small that adds additional weight to an argument.

What alos interesting is that the only two other games besides OoT that have a human-form Ganondorf, TWW and ALttP, not only have Ganondorf with pointy ears from the beginning of the game

We can't actually say that for ALttP. In the initial release we never knew if Ganon had Hylian blood or not; we only knew that he was a thief and we only saw his pig form. The Agahnim form, if it counts, was always covered in robes and a head cloth, so we couldn't get a look at the ears. In FSA, when it explains the origin of ALttP's Ganon, we never see his human form, and he was apparently a regular Gerudo before he gained the Trident.

[Fin]

I think SOAP meant TP, not LttP. >_>

[Sir Turtlelot]

Actually, now that I think about it. Every game that Ganon has the ToP, he has pointed ears. The original LoZ's graphics make it near impossible to tell, but in the BS LoZ, his ears are pointed. In the adult part of OoT, he has pointed ears, and in both the WW & TP he has pointed ears. Anyone else notice this?

[MikePetersSucks]

But the Twinrova sisters are green too and they're basically unknown lackeys tucked away in a corner of the world. While the green skin is probably meant to indicate that Ganondorf is evil, it doesn't really look like it's an exclusive trait meant to set him up as a Maou.

Unknown lackeys? They're his surrogate mothers and probably second in command. That, and witches and Maou are basically THE SAME THING, with a difference only in gender and the scope in physical dominion.

As I said above, Ganondorf's ears look somewhat like Hylian points after he gains the ToP, and in TWW his ears are even the same as the ears of the other characters. Even if they aren't meant to be Hylian points, we know that Ganondorf only gained those ears after he gained the ToP.

In TWW and TP, everyone has pointy ears, though, even non-Hylians. Only OOT's case is at all worthy of contention.

The Agahnim form, if it counts, was always covered in robes and a head cloth, so we couldn't get a look at the ears.

It probably doesn't count, but I always imagined that, due to the nature of bunshin, Agahnim was a physical clone of Ganondorf, so he was probably a Gerudo who covered himself up and pretended to be Hylian or something (the covers probably helped hide his obviously demonic nature).

[Fin]

As I said above, Ganondorf's ears look somewhat like Hylian points after he gains the ToP, and in TWW his ears are even the same as the ears of the other characters. Even if they aren't meant to be Hylian points, we know that Ganondorf only gained those ears after he gained the ToP.

In TWW and TP, everyone has pointy ears, though, even non-Hylians. Only OOT's case is at all worthy of contention.

Wait, what? Didn't the Ordonians have round ears? And I think Ashei, Hena, Iza and Coro did too. >_>

[Arturo]

In TWW and TP, everyone has pointy ears, though, even non-Hylians. Only OOT's case is at all worthy of contention.

Except that's false.

[Average Gamer]

Unknown lackeys?

Apparently nobody is aware of them. The Gerudo even think that Nabooru is second to Ganondorf. The Twinrova sisters are also basically shut in a dungeon on the edge of the earth.

That, and witches and Maou are basically THE SAME THING, with a difference only in gender and the scope in physical dominion.

I don't see how a mere witch could be the same as a demon king, but either way the green skin doesn't look like a trait exclusive to Ganondorf's "ascension", especially since he already has green skin before ever becoming a Maou.

In TWW and TP, everyone has pointy ears, though, even non-Hylians.

Arturo already pointed out that not every character in TWW and TP has pointed ears.

[MikePetersSucks]

Except that's false.

Yea, it does mention that Ganondorf is specifically seizing long-eared girls, just about everyone's ears are pointed to some degree, such at the Rito.

Apparently nobody is aware of them. The Gerudo even think that Nabooru is second to Ganondorf. The Twinrova sisters are also basically shut in a dungeon on the edge of the earth.

Oh, I thought you were trying to say they had little to no power in Ganondorf's forces.

I don't see how a mere witch could be the same as a demon king, but either way the green skin doesn't look like a trait exclusive to Ganondorf's "ascension", especially since he already has green skin before ever becoming a Maou.

Even before his ascension, he was still using black magic and consorting with demons and such. Witches are seen as being the brides of Demon Lords; they're typically the Empress to their Emperor, in a sense.

Arturo already pointed out that not every character in TWW and TP has pointed ears.

He didn't so much as point it out as go "nuh uh" XP

[Arturo]

He didn't so much as point it out as go "nuh uh" XP

I didn't want to spend much time listing names, but if you check Outset Island citizens, some of them have perfectly round ears.

[MikePetersSucks]

Oh well. The point remains valid that pointy ears aren't exclusive to the Hylians.

[Average Gamer]

Oh well. The point remains valid that pointy ears aren't exclusive to the Hylians.

It's kind of said in the games that the Hylians are the only ones with pointed ears though. The people in TWW with pointed ears presumably have traces of Hylian blood in them.

[Raien]

Some characters who are not Hylian have pointed ears, but only the Hylians are actively distinguished in the text by their pointed ears.

[Average Gamer]

Some characters who are not Hylian have pointed ears, but only the Hylians are actively distinguished in the text by their pointed ears.

In TWW though the Hylian blood in general has been presumably thinning out. Characters like Link and Aryll arguably just have blood that is more pure when compared to other citizens who have pointed ears in the story.

[MikePetersSucks]

And yet the Rito have pointed ears too, and they don't have a Triforce.

[Average Gamer]

And yet the Rito have pointed ears too, and they don't have a Triforce.

The Zora were changed into the Rito for the new world by what appears to be the gods themselves. This direct divine act could explain the Rito's ears having points, and it explains the Rito's ears in general.

[MikePetersSucks]

That's really only a theory. The jury's still out on whether or not the Rito are descendants of the Zora, or if the Rito are a tribe from another land who evolved wings.

Plus, by the logic, then the Rito would seem to be the new chosen people, which would just be silly.

[Average Gamer]

That's really only a theory. The jury's still out on whether or not the Rito are descendants of the Zora, or if the Rito are a tribe from another land who evolved wings.

There doesn't really seem to be any real alternative for the Rito other than being the descendants of the Zora. Also, if the Rito are not descended from the Zora, there'd be the possibility that they branched off from some group of Hylians anyway, explaining the pointed ears again.

Also, they didn't actually evolve wings. Jacen went over what Medli said in the Japanese version, and she never mentions the word. The Rito get their wings from Valoo.

Plus, by the logic, then the Rito would seem to be the new chosen people, which would just be silly.

They wouldn't be selected as the chosen ones of the gods, but they would still be directly altered by the Goddesses.

[Sir Turtlelot]

Personally, I don't see why the Zoras would need to evolve. Wouldn't an oceanic world be perfect for them? Wouldn't evolving into the Rito just make it harder on them?

[Average Gamer]

Personally, I don't see why the Zoras would need to evolve. Wouldn't an oceanic world be perfect for them? Wouldn't evolving into the Rito just make it harder on them?

The popular idea is that the Goddesses changed them so that Hyrule would stay buried beneath the waves.

[Fin]

I've said this before (on GameFAQs though), but we shouldn't be using the fuggin' word evolve. It has Darwinian connotations that just aren't appropriate.

[Raien]

The popular idea is that the Goddesses changed them so that Hyrule would stay buried beneath the waves.

That's the popular idea? At last. I've been saying this for years (well, one year) while everyone was saying "lol evolution!".

[MikePetersSucks]

There doesn't really seem to be any real alternative for the Rito other than being the descendants of the Zora. Also, if the Rito are not descended from the Zora, there'd be the possibility that they branched off from some group of Hylians anyway, explaining the pointed ears again.

Also, they didn't actually evolve wings. Jacen went over what Medli said in the Japanese version, and she never mentions the word. The Rito get their wings from Valoo.

Yes, I know where the Rito got their wings. I was the main proponent of the theory. I just use "Evolve" because that's pretty much how fantasy uses the word anyway. Why can't the Rito be a random tribe from outside Hyrule who were given wings by Valoo?

They wouldn't be selected as the chosen ones of the gods, but they would still be directly altered by the Goddesses.

Well, it's actually moreso Valoo than directly by the Goddesses, as you said yourself. It can't be both.

[Average Gamer]

Yes, I know where the Rito got their wings. I was the main proponent of the theory. I just use "Evolve" because that's pretty much how fantasy uses the word anyway. Why can't the Rito be a random tribe from outside Hyrule who were given wings by Valoo?

The Zora symbols, Medli-Laruto thing, etc. show some kind of a connection between the Rito and the Zora. Also, if the Rito were not the Zora, one would have to ask where the Zora were in TWW as well. One would also have to ask why the Rito would have had what seemed to be an exodus into the Great Sea.

Well, it's actually moreso Valoo than directly by the Goddesses, as you said yourself. It can't be both.

The only thing Valoo gives them is wings. Their avian features, ears, etc. are all there before they go to see Valoo.

[MikePetersSucks]

The Zora symbols, Medli-Laruto thing, etc. show some kind of a connection between the Rito and the Zora. Also, if the Rito were not the Zora, one would have to ask where the Zora were in TWW as well. One would also have to ask why the Rito would have had what seemed to be an exodus into the Great Sea.

What Zora symbols? Anyway, races seem to migrate fairly often enough for those points to be unworthy of serious consideration. We KNOW the Zoras migrate atleast as fair as Labrynna/Holodrum.

As for the Medli/Laruto thing, the title of Sage isn't bound by blood, and is more a spiritual lineage.

The only thing Valoo gives them is wings. Their avian features, ears, etc. are all there before they go to see Valoo.

That seems unnecessary. If you're transforming the Zora into the Rito, why make two separate enchantments from two different sources?

[Average Gamer]

What Zora symbols?

On Komali's clothing, along with Din's Pearl.

Anyway, races seem to migrate fairly often enough for those points to be unworthy of serious consideration. We KNOW the Zoras migrate atleast as fair as Labrynna/Holodrum.

But we can't say that they utterly abandon a land when moving, and their absence on the Great Sea doesn't make any real sense if they're still around. Also, weren't the Zora in Labyrnna/Holodrum natives of those locations and not from Hyrule anyway?

As for the Medli/Laruto thing, the title of Sage isn't bound by blood, and is more a spiritual lineage.

I know that the title of Sage is passed on spiritually, but in the case of Fado and Makar the role of Sage was basically being kept within the species. With the other things leaning toward a Zora-Rito connection, Laruto could have been keeping her role of Sage in the species as well.

That seems unnecessary. If you're transforming the Zora into the Rito, why make two separate enchantments from two different sources?

Because we know that the Rito already have bird features before personally seeing Valoo to get their wings and that they once relied on grappling hooks to get around before Valoo began giving them wings.

Edited by Average Gamer, 30 April 2009 - 04:28 AM.

[MikePetersSucks]

On Komali's clothing, along with Din's Pearl.

The symbol on Din's pearl is...uh...Din's symbol. It's associated with her in the Oracles games.

But we can't say that they utterly abandon a land when moving, and their absence on the Great Sea doesn't make any real sense if they're still around. Also, weren't the Zora in Labyrnna/Holodrum natives of those locations and not from Hyrule anyway?

I'm pretty sure those Zora are migrators. And if we're playing the "Can't reawaken Hyrule" thing, maybe the Goddesses banished them to other seas.

I know that the title of Sage is passed on spiritually, but in the case of Fado and Makar the role of Sage was basically being kept within the species. With the other things leaning toward a Zora-Rito connection, Laruto could have been keeping her role of Sage in the species as well.

The titles went from one holder of the instrument to the other, so the Fado and Makar thing makes sense, since the instrument exists solely for the purpose of the Deku Tree's harvest ritual.

Because we know that the Rito already have bird features before personally seeing Valoo to get their wings and that they once relied on grappling hooks to get around before Valoo began giving them wings.

Too bad the Zora never used grappling hooks. Why can't the Rito be wingless bird people who acquired Valoo as their guardian deity and/or were created by Valoo? You'd still need to kind of explain where the hell Valoo came from anyway, as he doesn't havr a native OOT Hyrulian Guardian Deity to be descended from like the Deku Tree and Jabun.

[Arturo]

The symbol on Din's pearl is...uh...Din's symbol. It's associated with her in the Oracles games.

Except the Zora's Sapphire symbol is everywhere in their mountain.