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I'm working on my first timeline!


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#1 wring

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Posted 15 August 2008 - 07:57 PM

Yeah, i haven't played very many games, but I've seen and heard allot about them. I really want to figure out a good timeline, so here's my timeline, that I will probably change in a few minutes.

The Minish Cap
I really want this game! Anyways, its supposed to be an early version of Hyrule, with no names or anything.

Ocarina of time and Majora's Mask
This one is obvious. I love this game so far, I still have to beat Ganondorf, but I want to make sure I'm ready before I go into his castle. Also, even though this isn't the first Zelda, I wonder if this Zelda is the one from Adventures of Link, because in this game the Triforce is complete, while in Twilight Princess its seperated into the pieces. I read a translation of Adventures of Link, and Sleeping Zelda's father had the complete triforce, but it was seperated when the Prince tried to inherit it, and so he has a wizard curse Zelda who knew where the Triforce of Wisdom was.

Twilight Princess
Ok, I think the Sages from Ocarina of time re awoke in the new timeline, or new sages took their place. And Ganondorf was sealed in the Twilight Realm. I haven't played this game, so I'm not sure on the ending, but I heard it ends with the Triforce in pieces.

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure
Ganondorf transforms into Ganon and gets sealed in the Dark Realm.

Legend of Zelda and Adventures of Link
Ok I think Ganon escapes the Dark Realm by means we arn't given, maybe his followers in the Light World released him, and he kidnaps Zelda. The Triforce is never put back together between TP and this game, but Ganon keeps/regains his triforce of power. But at the end of Adventures of Link the Triforce is reunited.

Oracles of Ages/Seasons
The Triforce is put back together at the end of Adventures of Link, and Ganon is dead. This is how he gets resurected. I haven't played this game either, but I heard the Master Sword is in this game, so it has to be placed before A Link to the Past, which is why I have these last (Or first depending on how you look at it) games in this particular order. Also it has to happen on the child timeline because Twinrosa is alive and is killed (again) in this game. Also, I think at the end of this game the Triforce returns to the Dark World where it is in A Link to the Past.

A Link to the Past
This is my first LoZ game, I love this game! At the end Ganon is killed, we know he's dead because the Dark World disapears. Ganon's wish is granted as long as he is alive, no exceptions. Also at the end, the Master Sword is sealed away permenantly. So all the games with the Master Sword in it have to happen before this game. I think this is ment to end the series, despite the fact that is was advertised as a prequal. It doesn't connect to the other two games at all. (And its called a link to the past because of the sealing of Ganon which happened in the distant past.)

Link's Awakening
Obvious one, too.

And on the other timeline we have Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass.

Now I've thought about it very much and I can't seem to come up with any other way to place the timeline. My thinking is the games that have Beast Ganon as the main boss should happen after Four Sword Adventure, and the ones with Ganondorf should happen before, and the games with the Master Sword should happen before A Link to the past because of the ending. Oracles had to be placed where it is to explain why Ganon is alive in A Link to the Past and dead in Adventures of Link, and the Master Sword, and Twinrosa. Also I was looking at the state of the Triforce. This is the only possible timeline that I can come up with that makes some sense.

Anyways, I might change it later.

#2 Erimgard

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:25 AM

Welcome to timeline theorizing :)

The Minish Cap
I really want this game! Anyways, its supposed to be an early version of Hyrule, with no names or anything.

I believe the majority of people on this site will agree with you that MC goes here, but I prefer it post-WW/PH. I think it's possible that it goes first though...sorta an ambiguous game for timeline theorizing.

Ocarina of time and Majora's Mask
This one is obvious. I love this game so far, I still have to beat Ganondorf, but I want to make sure I'm ready before I go into his castle. Also, even though this isn't the first Zelda, I wonder if this Zelda is the one from Adventures of Link, because in this game the Triforce is complete, while in Twilight Princess its seperated into the pieces. I read a translation of Adventures of Link, and Sleeping Zelda's father had the complete triforce, but it was seperated when the Prince tried to inherit it, and so he has a wizard curse Zelda who knew where the Triforce of Wisdom was.

The Triforce is complete, yes, but it's in the Sacred Realm. The King doesn't physically possess it.

Twilight Princess
Ok, I think the Sages from Ocarina of time re awoke in the new timeline, or new sages took their place. And Ganondorf was sealed in the Twilight Realm. I haven't played this game, so I'm not sure on the ending, but I heard it ends with the Triforce in pieces.

Yes the Triforce is in 3 pieces and:
Spoiler : click to show/hide
Ganondorf gets stabbed, the symbol fades off his hand, and he appears to die


Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure
Ganondorf transforms into Ganon and gets sealed in the Dark Realm.

If the Triforce is still out there, and well-known...why doesn't anybody care about it in these games? Why is it seemingly forgotten, accept as a Royal Family crest?
Also, if the Gerudos are all hated in OoT, and possibly go into hiding in TP [we don't see any, and most of the desert is blocked off], then why are there Gerudos in FSA, and why are they respected and well-liked by everyone else?
Also, Ganon doesn't get sealed in the Dark Realm in FSA.
Spoiler : click to show/hide
He gets sealed inside the Four Sword


Legend of Zelda and Adventures of Link
Ok I think Ganon escapes the Dark Realm by means we arn't given, maybe his followers in the Light World released him, and he kidnaps Zelda. The Triforce is never put back together between TP and this game, but Ganon keeps/regains his triforce of power. But at the end of Adventures of Link the Triforce is reunited.

LoZ's backstory [by Jumbie's translations] states that Ganon invaded Hyrule with an army corps and personally snatched the Triforce of Power. That doesn't match up with him just keeping it from TP.

Oracles of Ages/Seasons
The Triforce is put back together at the end of Adventures of Link, and Ganon is dead. This is how he gets resurected. I haven't played this game either, but I heard the Master Sword is in this game, so it has to be placed before A Link to the Past, which is why I have these last (Or first depending on how you look at it) games in this particular order. Also it has to happen on the child timeline because Twinrosa is alive and is killed (again) in this game. Also, I think at the end of this game the Triforce returns to the Dark World where it is in A Link to the Past.

OoS/OoA has a lot of cameo appearances, so I don't necessarily think Twinrova is all that important.
Some people doubt the Master Sword is canon in OoS/OoA, but I think it is.

A Link to the Past
This is my first LoZ game, I love this game! At the end Ganon is killed, we know he's dead because the Dark World disapears. Ganon's wish is granted as long as he is alive, no exceptions. Also at the end, the Master Sword is sealed away permenantly. So all the games with the Master Sword in it have to happen before this game. I think this is ment to end the series, despite the fact that is was advertised as a prequal. It doesn't connect to the other two games at all. (And its called a link to the past because of the sealing of Ganon which happened in the distant past.)

How does Ganon get back into the Sacred Realm/Dark Realm in your timeline?
When/how did the sealing occur?

Now I've thought about it very much and I can't seem to come up with any other way to place the timeline. My thinking is the games that have Beast Ganon as the main boss should happen after Four Sword Adventure, and the ones with Ganondorf should happen before, and the games with the Master Sword should happen before A Link to the past because of the ending. Oracles had to be placed where it is to explain why Ganon is alive in A Link to the Past and dead in Adventures of Link, and the Master Sword, and Twinrosa. Also I was looking at the state of the Triforce. This is the only possible timeline that I can come up with that makes some sense.

Anyways, I might change it later.

A pretty good timeline, keep it up.
Let me know what you think of the things I presented to you, and if you feel it necessary, revise your timeline.

#3 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 01:25 PM

The Minish Cap
I really want this game! Anyways, its supposed to be an early version of Hyrule, with no names or anything.


I can't stand Minish Cap being the first game whatsoever, as I like to keep all m Four Swords games together. While my timeline puts them after TWW, I don't fully believe that anymore and considering a new place for them, probably in a timeline of their own.

Ocarina of time and Majora's Mask
This one is obvious. I love this game so far, I still have to beat Ganondorf, but I want to make sure I'm ready before I go into his castle. Also, even though this isn't the first Zelda, I wonder if this Zelda is the one from Adventures of Link, because in this game the Triforce is complete, while in Twilight Princess its seperated into the pieces. I read a translation of Adventures of Link, and Sleeping Zelda's father had the complete triforce, but it was seperated when the Prince tried to inherit it, and so he has a wizard curse Zelda who knew where the Triforce of Wisdom was.


The Triforce is not complete in either of these two games.

Twilight Princess
Ok, I think the Sages from Ocarina of time re awoke in the new timeline, or new sages took their place. And Ganondorf was sealed in the Twilight Realm. I haven't played this game, so I'm not sure on the ending, but I heard it ends with the Triforce in pieces.


You REALLY need to play Twilight Princess before attempting to place it in a timeline.

Four Swords and Four Swords Adventure
Ganondorf transforms into Ganon and gets sealed in the Dark Realm.


So why does it come after Twilight Princess? Besides, Ganon wasn't sealed in the Dark World, he was sealed inside the Four Sword.

Legend of Zelda and Adventures of Link
Ok I think Ganon escapes the Dark Realm by means we arn't given, maybe his followers in the Light World released him, and he kidnaps Zelda. The Triforce is never put back together between TP and this game, but Ganon keeps/regains his triforce of power. But at the end of Adventures of Link the Triforce is reunited.


The Triforce isn't anywhere to be found in the Four Sword games, so this doesn't really work.

Oracles of Ages/Seasons
The Triforce is put back together at the end of Adventures of Link, and Ganon is dead. This is how he gets resurected. I haven't played this game either, but I heard the Master Sword is in this game, so it has to be placed before A Link to the Past, which is why I have these last (Or first depending on how you look at it) games in this particular order. Also it has to happen on the child timeline because Twinrosa is alive and is killed (again) in this game. Also, I think at the end of this game the Triforce returns to the Dark World where it is in A Link to the Past.


The Master Sword is optional and makes no contribution to the storyline in this game, so most fans don't "count" it as canonical. Also, the resurrection attempt fails.

A Link to the Past
This is my first LoZ game, I love this game! At the end Ganon is killed, we know he's dead because the Dark World disapears. Ganon's wish is granted as long as he is alive, no exceptions. Also at the end, the Master Sword is sealed away permenantly. So all the games with the Master Sword in it have to happen before this game. I think this is ment to end the series, despite the fact that is was advertised as a prequal. It doesn't connect to the other two games at all. (And its called a link to the past because of the sealing of Ganon which happened in the distant past.)


Official sources claim this comes before Legend of Zelda (LoZ) and Adventure of Link (AoL), so it's one of the few timeline facts we have. Link has the Triforce at the end and probably turns it over to the king, a few centuries pass, and the Sleeping Zelda story might happen, and then Ganon is reborn, causing the next two games.

Now I've thought about it very much and I can't seem to come up with any other way to place the timeline.


You haven't seem to have played a lot of the games, so that's a premature opinion.

My thinking is the games that have Beast Ganon as the main boss should happen after Four Sword Adventure, and the ones with Ganondorf should happen before


WHY?

Oracles had to be placed where it is to explain why Ganon is alive in A Link to the Past and dead in Adventures of Link, and the Master Sword, and Twinrosa.


Not really, considering most games are centuries apart and reincarnation exists in the Zelda Universe.

#4 Showsni

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 02:12 PM

I think having just one Ganon limits a theory. I mean, multiple Links are a canonical fact, so why not multiple Ganons? That way you don't need to jump through hoops to try and explain why he's been resurrected and so on.

The Minish Cap
I really want this game! Anyways, its supposed to be an early version of Hyrule, with no names or anything.


Well, it's only real timeline connections are Vaati and the four sword (making it pre FS and FSA), and possible the oracles and maybe the triumph forks. The mention of the oracles doesn't force it to be pre or post the Oracles games, though, and the Triumph Forks reference might be an easter egg. So it can go pretty much anywhere, provided it's before FS and FSA.

Ocarina of time and Majora's Mask
This one is obvious. I love this game so far, I still have to beat Ganondorf, but I want to make sure I'm ready before I go into his castle. Also, even though this isn't the first Zelda, I wonder if this Zelda is the one from Adventures of Link, because in this game the Triforce is complete, while in Twilight Princess its seperated into the pieces. I read a translation of Adventures of Link, and Sleeping Zelda's father had the complete triforce, but it was seperated when the Prince tried to inherit it, and so he has a wizard curse Zelda who knew where the Triforce of Wisdom was.


At the start of OoT, the triforce is complete inside the Sacred Realm, and at the end it's seperated into the three pieces. In AoL's backstory the triforce is complete, but after the backstory it's in two pieces - wisdom and power together, courage hidden. If OoT Zelda were the sleeping Zelda, the triforce would have to be put back together again after OoT, which would involve regaining the triforce of power from Ganon, whilst he's sealed - that seems much too difficult to do. Unless you think there's a timeline split slightly pre OoT, one half leading to OoT and the other to Zelda's father getting the triforce from the Sacred Realm then AoL's backstory occurring... Which there's no evidence for at all.

Twilight Princess
Ok, I think the Sages from Ocarina of time re awoke in the new timeline, or new sages took their place. And Ganondorf was sealed in the Twilight Realm. I haven't played this game, so I'm not sure on the ending, but I heard it ends with the Triforce in pieces.


The state of the triforce seems deliberately vague in this game - it's never even mentioned by name.

Legend of Zelda and Adventures of Link
Ok I think Ganon escapes the Dark Realm by means we arn't given, maybe his followers in the Light World released him, and he kidnaps Zelda. The Triforce is never put back together between TP and this game, but Ganon keeps/regains his triforce of power. But at the end of Adventures of Link the Triforce is reunited.


So, you say: after FSA Ganon is sealed in the Four Sword. The triforce is later rediscovered somehow, and used by the king. AoL backstory happens. Ganon escapes, steals the ToP, LoZ and AoL happen. The triforce's re emergence is a bit of a sticking point, but fair enough...

Oracles of Ages/Seasons
The Triforce is put back together at the end of Adventures of Link, and Ganon is dead. This is how he gets resurected. I haven't played this game either, but I heard the Master Sword is in this game, so it has to be placed before A Link to the Past, which is why I have these last (Or first depending on how you look at it) games in this particular order. Also it has to happen on the child timeline because Twinrosa is alive and is killed (again) in this game. Also, I think at the end of this game the Triforce returns to the Dark World where it is in A Link to the Past.


Seems a fine placement to me.

A Link to the Past
This is my first LoZ game, I love this game! At the end Ganon is killed, we know he's dead because the Dark World disapears. Ganon's wish is granted as long as he is alive, no exceptions. Also at the end, the Master Sword is sealed away permenantly. So all the games with the Master Sword in it have to happen before this game. I think this is ment to end the series, despite the fact that is was advertised as a prequal. It doesn't connect to the other two games at all. (And its called a link to the past because of the sealing of Ganon which happened in the distant past.)


Best with a new different Ganon for the Imprisoning War, then ALttP after the Imprisoning War... Fine.

Though, I do disagree with the "Master Sword Sleeps Forever" bit. Nintendo themselves immediately nullified this with the release of Ancient Stone Tablets, a direct sequel to ALttP. If you view the line as contemporary to ALttP it makes sense why people would think that, but they would have no way of knowing the future...

So, to sum it up, you have:

TMC - OoT (split) - MM - TP - FS - FSA - AoL BS - LoZ - AoL - OoA/S - IW - ALttP - LA
----------------------TWW - PH

Well, a problem is that the Zelda in AoL's BS is said to be the first who started the naming tradition, which must have existed before TWW. There's no explanation for the triforce's movements between TP and AoL BS, but the state of the triforce after TP is a little tricky anyway. You're ignoring the box which says ALttP is a prequel, but okay, if you want to.


#5 Erimgard

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 04:54 PM

Official sources claim this comes before Legend of Zelda (LoZ) and Adventure of Link (AoL), so it's one of the few timeline facts we have.

Just the aLttP box.
Shigeru has said on at least two occasions since then that aLttP is post-LoZ. Of course, take director quotes with a grain of salt.

#6 Raien

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 06:18 PM

Shigeru has said on at least two occasions since then that aLttP is post-LoZ. Of course, take Miyamoto quotes with a grain of salt.


Fixed.

Edited by Raian, 16 August 2008 - 06:18 PM.


#7 Erimgard

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Posted 16 August 2008 - 11:17 PM

Shigeru has said on at least two occasions since then that aLttP is post-LoZ. Of course, take Miyamoto quotes with a grain of salt.


Fixed.

Haha, fair enough. However, he's said it as recently as 2003, and I believe the old aLttP box to be pretty null anyway.
Jumbie says the word used for "very long ago" refers to an almost immeasurable amount of time. My interpretation is that in the beginning no complex timeline was planned, and he didn't want to have to connect the games directly, so he just threw a "this happened ages ago" quote on there.

Miyamoto likes to keep his stories as separate as possible. But in 1998 with OoT's release [and the beginning of a timeline being formed because of it's connections to aLttP] he went against what the box said, and then did so again in 2003.

Thus, I think the original statement was just because Miyamoto didn't want to try and form a timeline, but with the forming of a timeline, and especially with Eiji Aonuma's joining of the team, he changed his mind and gave it a more accurate placement. Just my interpretation.

#8 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 11:51 AM

What Shigeru quotes are you talking about? Because I would think something that nullified one of the founding tenets of most timelines would be BIG NEWS. Source me or you're talking our your behind.

#9 Raien

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 02:16 PM

Miyamoto likes to keep his stories as separate as possible. But in 1998 with OoT's release [and the beginning of a timeline being formed because of it's connections to aLttP] he went against what the box said, and then did so again in 2003.


It would be more accurate to say that Miyamoto wouldn't expect the individual game experience to be compromised by a timeline (i.e. new players cannot emotionally connect with a game if they are confused by the storyline). Every new Zelda game tells new players exactly what they need to know to understand the story, and the timeline is allowed to develop as a consequence.

#10 Erimgard

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 04:59 PM

What Shigeru quotes are you talking about? Because I would think something that nullified one of the founding tenets of most timelines would be BIG NEWS. Source me or you're talking our your behind.

I thought the "Miyamoto timeline" was very, very common knowledge...but I guess not:

Ocarina of Time is the first story, then the original Legend of Zelda, then Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, and finally A Link to the Past. It's not very clear where Link's Awakening fits in--it could be anytime after Ocarina of Time.

http://www.miyamotos...ws/111998.shtml

And then in 2003:

We actually see A link to the Past as the real sequel to Legend of Zelda. Zelda II was more of a side story about what happened to Link after the events in Legend of Zelda.

http://www.miyamotos...ws/230403.shtml

Edited by Erimgard, 17 August 2008 - 04:59 PM.


#11 Alastair

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 06:20 PM

And then in 2003:

We actually see A link to the Past as the real sequel to Legend of Zelda. Zelda II was more of a side story about what happened to Link after the events in Legend of Zelda.

http://www.miyamotos...ws/230403.shtml



This quote is very misleading when taken out of context. Reading through the interview it is clear that Miyamoto is referring to aLttP as LoZ sequel in terms of how the game play is a progression of LoZ gameplay. AoL is not the "real sequel" because it took the gameplay in very different direction.

#12 Erimgard

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 06:23 PM

I think it could be taken either way. I provided a link, so I'm not trying to hide the context or anything.
The fact that he specifically said AoL was a side "story" makes me think it's chronological/overall plot reference, but it's pretty ambiguous. Clearly aLttP is the true "sequel" in game play, but I believe it to also be the true "sequel" in story. The next chapter in the Ganon story.

Edited by Erimgard, 17 August 2008 - 06:24 PM.


#13 Showsni

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Posted 17 August 2008 - 07:57 PM

Of course, the Japanese might have been less ambiguous, but it does strike me as him meaning ALttP is LoZ's "spiritual" successor, stylistically and so on.

#14 wring

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:12 AM

Well I changed a few things around.

Child Timeline
Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask
Twilight Princess

Adult Timeline
A Link to the Past
Oracles of Ages/Seasons
Legend of Zelda
Adventures of Link
Link's Awakening
^Maybe those games are when Ganondorf returns, forcing the goddesses to flood Hyrule. He gets revived somehow...
Wind Waker
Phantom Hourglass
Ok then Hyrule gets unflooded and Ganondorf gets released from the statue
Minish Cap
Four Sword
Four Sword Adventure

#15 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 10:15 AM

I thought the "Miyamoto timeline" was very, very common knowledge...but I guess not:


The Miyamoto Timeline is bullshit, anyone could tell you that. I mean, LA in THE MIDDLE of AoL? Especially since that thing is like...six or seven games out of date anyway. Regardless, LTTP was still put before LoZ.

Also, yea, in the original japanese transcript of the original, the word is "iwaku", which as Showsni suggested is more of a stylistic, "Metaphorical" sequel/story, such as how a game like OOT was LTTP's "sequel". As opposed to "hanashi", which is a literal, in-universe type of sequel/story, such as how LTTP is OOT's "sequel."

#16 wring

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Posted 18 August 2008 - 02:44 PM

Ok This time I definately got it!

Child Timeline
Minish Cap
This is Link's ancestor

Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask
Four Swords
Four Swords Adventures
^ I think all of those are the Hero of Time, and Four Swords Adventures is why the Sage's decide to execute Ganondorf.

Twilight Princess


Adult Timeline
A Link to the Past
Happens years after Ocarina of Time, because Ganon and the Triforce are still in the Dark Realm

Oracles of Ages/Seasons
Ganon gets revived same Link, cus Zelda says she recognised him.

Legend of Zelda
Adventures of Link
Link's Awakening
Ganon tries to get the Triforce back, same Link through these games, too.

^Maybe those games are when Ganondorf returns, forcing the goddesses to flood Hyrule. He gets revived because after Link dies, his followers could easily collect the blood needed. In the intro to Wind Waker it shows Ganondorf in his beast form, like these games.

Wind Waker
Phantom Hourglass

#17 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 08:37 AM

Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask
Four Swords
Four Swords Adventures
^ I think all of those are the Hero of Time, and Four Swords Adventures is why the Sage's decide to execute Ganondorf.


Why are all those games so bloody different? Where did the Triforce go during the Four Swords games?

Adult Timeline
A Link to the Past
Happens years after Ocarina of Time, because Ganon and the Triforce are still in the Dark Realm

Oracles of Ages/Seasons
Ganon gets revived same Link, cus Zelda says she recognised him.

Legend of Zelda
Adventures of Link
Link's Awakening
Ganon tries to get the Triforce back, same Link through these games, too.

^Maybe those games are when Ganondorf returns, forcing the goddesses to flood Hyrule. He gets revived because after Link dies, his followers could easily collect the blood needed. In the intro to Wind Waker it shows Ganondorf in his beast form, like these games.

Wind Waker
Phantom Hourglass


Nothing can go between OOT and Wind Waker.

#18 Erimgard

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 09:52 AM

I thought the "Miyamoto timeline" was very, very common knowledge...but I guess not:

The Miyamoto Timeline is bullshit, anyone could tell you that. I mean, LA in THE MIDDLE of AoL? Especially since that thing is like...six or seven games out of date anyway. Regardless, LTTP was still put before LoZ.

Show me where in that article that I posted Miyamoto says anything about LA being in the middle of AoL.
He never stated a placement for LA, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Also, yea, in the original japanese transcript of the original, the word is "iwaku", which as Showsni suggested is more of a stylistic, "Metaphorical" sequel/story, such as how a game like OOT was LTTP's "sequel". As opposed to "hanashi", which is a literal, in-universe type of sequel/story, such as how LTTP is OOT's "sequel."

Thanks for clarifying.

#19 Erimgard

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 10:12 AM

Child Timeline
Minish Cap
This is Link's ancestor

Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask
Four Swords
Four Swords Adventures
^ I think all of those are the Hero of Time, and Four Swords Adventures is why the Sage's decide to execute Ganondorf.

Twilight Princess

Link doesn't look anything like he does in OoT in FS/FSA.
Why isn't the Triforce mentioned at all? de
Why have the Sages been replaced by Maidens, and then why does it go back to Sages again for TP?
Where did FSA Ganon get the Trident from, and why doesn't he have it in TP?
Ganon gets sealed inside the Four Sword at the end of FSA, and he's in his Ganon form. Why is he not sealed, and in his Ganondorf form in the TP backstory?

Adult Timeline
A Link to the Past
Happens years after Ocarina of Time, because Ganon and the Triforce are still in the Dark Realm

Only one piece of the Triforce is in the SR at the end of OoT. All three are in aLttP.

Oracles of Ages/Seasons
Ganon gets revived same Link, cus Zelda says she recognised him.

Actually...it's almost the opposite. She asks if you are Link, and then says she knew it. Sorta hard to interpret.

Legend of Zelda
Adventures of Link
Link's Awakening
Ganon tries to get the Triforce back, same Link through these games, too.

Where did Ganon come from? He's dead at the end of OoX.

^Maybe those games are when Ganondorf returns, forcing the goddesses to flood Hyrule. He gets revived because after Link dies, his followers could easily collect the blood needed. In the intro to Wind Waker it shows Ganondorf in his beast form, like these games.

WW's backstory says no hero showed up. Link showed up in all those games and killed Ganon.
Your timeline has a dead Ganon...not a victorious Ganon with no one to stop him.

#20 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:11 PM

Show me where in that article that I posted Miyamoto says anything about LA being in the middle of AoL.


You mentioned the Miyamoto Timeline, which contained that placement in atleast a few of it's drafts.

He never stated a placement for LA, so I don't know what the hell you're talking about.


NEVER? Not quite. If you don't care enough to know the current and previous statements of a person, don't quote them as a reliable authority.

#21 Erimgard

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 03:42 PM

You mentioned the Miyamoto Timeline, which contained that placement in atleast a few of it's drafts.

The Miyamoto timeline, as in the one I just posted. The "infamous" quote from 1998.
The point is not where LA goes. Miyamoto clearly didn't give a crap about LA's placement "it can go anywhere after OoT"

I'm trying to show that I believe Miyamoto retconned their original intentions for where aLttP go.
By saying aLttP is "a very long time" before LoZ, I believe he was just trying to avoid a timeline. He didn't want to have to connect things, he likes his stories separate.
With the release of OoT and the beginnings of a timeline forming, he gave a more accurate placement for it.

#22 Raien

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:15 PM

So Miyamoto doesn't care about the timeline in earlier statements, yet later statements retcon established developer placements? I think I'm seeing a flaw in this theory.

#23 Erimgard

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 04:39 PM

Meh, just stating what I think. The way the aLttP box is phrased makes me think Shigeru had no intention of connecting it with LoZ to form a timeline. With the release of OoT and a clear timeline connection there, he gave his two cents on the timeline at that point, and contradicted the box. Take it with a grain of salt, as you should with anything Shigeru says, but I believe he was retconning the aLttP box.

#24 Raien

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 05:24 PM

If Miyamoto doesn't have anything to do with the timeline, why whould the developers rewrite the timeline to reflect an off-the-cuff remark? It's like George W. Bush saying Frodo dies in Lord of the Rings, and consequently the book gets rewritten so Frodo dies.

Think about it seriously. Such a retcon would never happen in any other context, why expect it from Zelda?

Edited by Raian, 19 August 2008 - 05:31 PM.


#25 Alastair

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 05:56 PM

If Miyamoto doesn't have anything to do with the timeline, why whould the developers rewrite the timeline to reflect an off-the-cuff remark? It's like George W. Bush saying Frodo dies in Lord of the Rings, and consequently the book gets rewritten so Frodo dies.

Except that George W. Bush has no relation to Tolkiens writing*. It is more like Christopher Tolkien saying that Frodo dies - still doesn't make much sense, but it is understandable why people might attribute some value to his oppinion.




*..not to mention that whatever George W. says you should assume the opposite to be true.

#26 Raien

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Posted 19 August 2008 - 06:43 PM

If Christopher Tolkien said off-the-cuff that Frodo died, the books would not get rewritten. If Miyamoto said off-the-cuff ALTTP follows LoZ in the timeline, the timeline would not automatically get rewritten. It's illogical to assert such a theory.

#27 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 12:20 PM

The Miyamoto timeline, as in the one I just posted. The "infamous" quote from 1998.


You never posted the Miyamoto timeline, you just mentioned it.

The point is not where LA goes. Miyamoto clearly didn't give a crap about LA's placement "it can go anywhere after OoT"


He doesn't care about any of the game placements. He's here to make fun games, not good stories. Not if Aonuma made a timeline statement to that effect, I might give a damn.

I'm trying to show that I believe Miyamoto retconned their original intentions for where aLttP go.


Yea, and if we believe Miyamoto, the Master Sword is in LoZ and Oracles had Twinrova summoning Ganon from the Dark World.

I respect the man's genius at game making, but his knowledge of his own games' storylines doesn't amount to shit.

By saying aLttP is "a very long time" before LoZ, I believe he was just trying to avoid a timeline. He didn't want to have to connect things, he likes his stories separate.


Then why not have just said "lol different games are all in different stories?"

If he didn't intend for LTTP to come before the first two games, he would've never let them put it on a box.

Also, what Raian said.

#28 wring

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 02:06 PM

A Link to the Past is difficult to place in the timeline. At the start of the game Ganon is sealed in the Dark World from the events of Ocarina of Time, that didn't actually happen. And at the end of the game Ganon is dead and the Dark World is destroyed. If we place a game before A Link to the Past we have to explain how Ganon escaped the Dark World, and how he got resealed. If we place a game afterwards, Ganon must be revived somehow. And theirs the Master Sword being sealed away forever, which is bad because its really difficult to place A Link to the Past at the end of the timeline.

Then to make thing even more complicated, when Nintendo remade the game, they put in Young Link's voice and made Link the same age as Ocarina of Time's young Link. Basically implying that its the same Link, even though thousands of years are supposed to pass between the games. If its just Link's descendant, why change the age?

I've heard Four Sword Adventure be used to help fill the plothole. The timeline would go something like this.

Minish Cap
Vatii gets defeated, and somehow ends up sealed in the Four Sword.

Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask
Time Travel stuff

Child Timeline
Four Sword/Four Sword Adventure
Ganondorf is sealed in the foursword, which ends up in the Dark World by the time A Link to the Past happens.

A Link to the Past
Ganon gets killed and the Dark World disappears

It makes sense to me. You could stick Legend of Zelda and Zelda 2 and then Oracles of Ages/Seasons between MM and FS/FSA. That would explain why the Triforce is complete in A Link to the Past, although Ganon would be dead, that could be explained by the Oracles games. Ganon gets revived, you could say Ganon didn't die at the end of Oracles, but managed to survive so that Four Sword Adventures could happen. Or he could be "reborn" like the famous Zelda quote about Ganon goes in that game.

And on the other side of the timeline would be the other two games WW and PH.

EDIT:

Here's what I think the timeline is.

Child Timeline:

Minish Cap
I think this is Hero of Time's ancestor, even though it could be the same person, he doesn't live with the Kokiri. Unless this is only a temporary house, I can't see it being the same Link.

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask

Twilight Princess

Four Sword
Four Sword Adventures

The Four Sword gets sealed in the Dark Realm along with Beast Ganon.

A Link to the Past
Link's Awakening

Ok, now I'm certian this is on the Child Timeline because of one line of A Link to the Past's intro. "But when these events were obscured by the mists of time, and became legend..." I think that's not a reference to the large amount of time between the games, but is a reference to the time travel at the end of Ocarina of Time.

Oracles of Ages/Oracles of Seasons

Now at the end of Oracles, Ganon is a mindless beast. I don't think Ganon is dead at the end of this game, I think he survived, and the Ganon you fight in the next two games is the mindless beast version of Ganon, because in a Link to the Past, Ganon actually talks to you, in the next game he just battles you (I think, I haven't played that game)

Legend of Zelda
Adventures of Link

Ganon dies once and for all.

Adult Timeline:
Wind Waker
Phantom Hourglass

Sleeping Zelda theory: My theory on the sleeping Zelda? Well if the Light Force in The Minish Cap is really the Triforce of Wisdom (Its shown as a Triforce in the intro) then the Sleeping Zelda is the Zelda from the Minish Cap. She knew the secret of the Triforce of Wisdom that the Prince was unable to obtain, and she is the first Zelda chronologically, and she would've been the only one in hundreds of years to know that secret.

Edited by wring, 24 August 2008 - 01:22 PM.


#29 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 02:58 PM

A Link to the Past is difficult to place in the timeline. At the start of the game Ganon is sealed in the Dark World from the events of Ocarina of Time, that didn't actually happen.


Says who?

And at the end of the game Ganon is dead and the Dark World is destroyed. If we place a game before A Link to the Past we have to explain how Ganon escaped the Dark World, and how he got resealed.


Or we could say that the Imprisoning War is an event that happens before LTTP, but not depicted within any game whatsoever, just like every other games' backstory.

If we place a game afterwards, Ganon must be revived somehow.


Or reincarnated, like EVERYONE ELSE IN HYRULE LOL.

And theirs the Master Sword being sealed away forever, which is bad because its really difficult to place A Link to the Past at the end of the timeline.


Oh whatever, the Master Sword is only in like four games.

Then to make thing even more complicated, when Nintendo remade the game, they put in Young Link's voice and made Link the same age as Ocarina of Time's young Link. Basically implying that its the same Link, even though thousands of years are supposed to pass between the games. If its just Link's descendant, why change the age?


They're not implying shit, they're just using the voice. All Links have had the same god damn voice. All Links wear green. All Links are left handed. All Links are generally 10-17, all Links are blonde or brunette, all Links have blue eyes, all Links are Caucasian.

Minish Cap
Vatii gets defeated, and somehow ends up sealed in the Four Sword.

Ocarina of Time/Majora's Mask
Time Travel stuff


I still don't like Minish Cap in the beginning, but whatever, sure, who cares right now?

Child Timeline
Four Sword/Four Sword Adventure
Ganondorf is sealed in the foursword, which ends up in the Dark World by the time A Link to the Past happens.

A Link to the Past
Ganon gets killed and the Dark World disappears


404 Error. Doesn't work.

It makes sense to me. You could stick Legend of Zelda and Zelda 2 and then Oracles of Ages/Seasons between MM and FS/FSA.


No you can't.

That would explain why the Triforce is complete in A Link to the Past, although Ganon would be dead, that could be explained by the Oracles games.


No it doesn't, because Ganon wasn't successfully revived. And besides, the Ganon that seized the Triforce in LTTP was an insignificant desert thief, not a revived KING OF DARKNESS. This also doesn't explain how the Triforce goes from it's three OOT holders, to somehow missing, to assembled in a castle, to having been in the Sacred Realm untouched for untold ages.

Ganon gets revived, you could say Ganon didn't die at the end of Oracles, but managed to survive so that Four Sword Adventures could happen.


Impossible. First off, we see him explode, and secondly, the ritual went wrong because Zelda wasn't sacrificed, so the revived Ganon has no soul.

Minish Cap
I think this is Hero of Time's ancestor, even though it could be the same person, he doesn't live with the Kokiri. Unless this is only a temporary house, I can't see it being the same Link.

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask

Twilight Princess


Good enough so far.

Four Sword
Four Sword Adventures


Why do you insist on having the Four Swords games here? It only makes more problems and explains nothing.

The Four Sword gets sealed in the Dark Realm along with Beast Ganon.


There's no indication to assume this. Besides, we know how Ganon got there, he went in there as a desert thief and seized the Triforce after killing his comrades, not being dropped in there as a sword.

Ok, now I'm certian this is on the Child Timeline because of one line of A Link to the Past's intro. "But when these events were obscured by the mists of time, and became legend..." I think that's not a reference to the large amount of time between the games, but is a reference to the time travel at the end of Ocarina of Time.


WTF? Of course it doesn't, none of that references time travel, that's a COMMON poetic metaphor for the passage of time used in MANY fictional media. Do you even know what "obscured" means?

Oracles of Ages/Oracles of Seasons


I guess it works, but why put it here?

Now at the end of Oracles, Ganon is a mindless beast. I don't think Ganon is dead at the end of this game, I think he survived, and the Ganon you fight in the next two games is the mindless beast version of Ganon, because in a Link to the Past, Ganon actually talks to you, in the next game he just battles you (I think, I haven't played that game)


But it can't be for the reasons I already listed, and LoZ Ganon is capable of intelligently leading armies. Monsters wouldn't obey him if he was a mindless monster, they wouldn't have anything to obey. He's also capable of kidnapping and thievery, when a mindless beast would've probably just nommed Zelda.

Sleeping Zelda theory: My theory on the sleeping Zelda? Well if the Light Force in The Minish Cap is really the Triforce of Wisdom (Its shown as a Triforce in the intro)


It's not a Triforce, it's impossible.

then the Sleeping Zelda is the Zelda from the Minish Cap. She knew the secret of the Triforce of Wisdom that the Prince was unable to obtain, and she is the first Zelda chronologically, and she would've been the only one in hundreds of years to know that secret.


That's unbelievably silly. TMC Zelda didn't have a brother, the King didn't rule with the united Triforce, and TMC Link would've done something if she was cursed. Besides, it was the Triforce of Courage that the Prince couldn't obtain. He ruled with Power and Wisdom, which is why those two belong to the Royal Family in LoZ.

You really need to play the games before you theorize.

#30 Raien

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 03:37 PM

The best way to work out the Zelda timeline is to look at how it has developed with each new game. If you look at how each game fits with a previous title, the timeline looks something like this.

LoZ

LoZ > AoL

ALTTP > LoZ > AoL

ALTTP > LA > LoZ > AoL

OoT > ALTTP > LA > LoZ > AoL

OoT > MM > ALTTP > LA > LoZ > AoL

OoT > MM > ALTTP > LA (> Oracles) > LoZ > AoL (> Oracles)

OoT > MM > ALTTP > LA (> Oracles) > LoZ > AoL (> Oracles)
FS (cannot be placed)

OoT > MM > ALTTP > LA (> Oracles) > LoZ > AoL (> Oracles)
OoT > TWW
FS

OoT > MM > ALTTP > LA (> Oracles) > LoZ > AoL (> Oracles)
OoT > TWW
FS > FSA

OoT > MM > ALTTP > LA (> Oracles) > LoZ > AoL (> Oracles)
OoT > TWW
TMC > FS > FSA

OoT > MM > TP > ALTTP > LA (> Oracles) > LoZ > AoL (> Oracles)
OoT > TWW
TMC > FS > FSA

OoT > MM > TP > ALTTP > LA (> Oracles) > LoZ > AoL (> Oracles)
OoT > TWW > PH
TMC > FS > FSA

Edited by Raian, 24 August 2008 - 03:37 PM.





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