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#1561 Thanatos-Zero

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 08:58 AM

It is strange, but the only content I can find, are the ingame scripts. The Majora's Mask Manual isn't listed.

@Snow
Thanks for the assistance, but I would have preferred the whole script.

#1562 Snow

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 10:12 AM

@Snow
Thanks for the assistance, but I would have preferred the whole script.


Ah. Sorry, but I can't really help you there. At least we can safely conclude that Termina is said to be a parallel world in the Japanese manual as well.

#1563 Jarsh

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 12:32 PM

Regarding the MM manual, I found this.

#1564 Thanatos-Zero

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 08:30 AM

Thank you Jarsh.^^

#1565 Average Gamer

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:28 AM

Here are some more requests that I had forgotten until now.

According to Lex in a discussion on ZU, the term used to refer to the Triforce mark on OoX Link's hand means birthmark. Lex is trying to argue that OoX Link always had the mark rather than receiving it after being chosen by the Triforce. Does the Japanese term actually mean birthmark, and is there any basis to Lex's argument?

The following was also mentioned, referring to Impa's discussion with Link after the defeat of Bongo Bongo:

"陥落した" literally means "fall, but carries the connotation of "surrender."


Is this statement accurate?

Edited by Average Gamer, 29 December 2010 - 07:29 AM.


#1566 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:39 PM

According to Lex in a discussion on ZU, the term used to refer to the Triforce mark on OoX Link's hand means birthmark. Lex is trying to argue that OoX Link always had the mark rather than receiving it after being chosen by the Triforce. Does the Japanese term actually mean birthmark, and is there any basis to Lex's argument?


No, he's talking out his ass. The word can be translated as "birthmark", but generally it's a term for notable body marking that isn't a scar, tattoo, beauty mark or mole, zit, etcetera...

That, and the Japanese don't really insist on birthmarks actually SHOWING UP at birth, what with the complications of reincarnation.

#1567 Average Gamer

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 10:32 AM

Here's another quote to go with the one in my previous post. I found the following translation on ZI.

彼は ハイリア人の祖先と言われる 天空人について 研究しているんだ
He has been studying the Sky People, who are said to be the ancestors of the Hylia.
He has been researching the Oocca, who are said to be the ancestors of the Hylians.


Is Rusl saying that the Oocca are the literal ancestors of the Hylians or is he saying that the Oocca were more like forerunners?

Thanks in advance.

#1568 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 03:01 PM

I don't remember well, didn't we debunk that?

#1569 Average Gamer

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 08:50 PM

I don't remember well, didn't we debunk that?


Shad's Japanese text mentioned the Oocca creating Hyrule instead of creating the Hylians, but now people are using Rusl's quote to argue that a curse was placed on the Oocca.

I think most people just can't accept the fact that the race beyond the Hylians isn't some bishie bisexual one.

#1570 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 06:49 PM

I agree. Especially since Nintendo is kind of obsessed with superpowered cute things.

#1571 Average Gamer

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 10:50 AM

Recently, Jarsh hired a professional translator to look at some quotes. Among these quotes was the Japanese Virtual Console description for OoT, as conflicting translations done by Pinecove and others made it unclear if the description was referring to the Seal War or the creation story. I asked Jarsh if I could get MPS to double check the translation, and he agreed to it. Here's the original text and the translation made by the professional.

ゲーム中に登場する人物の名前が、ディスクシステムソフト『リンクの冒険』に出てくる街の名前と同じだった り、『神々のトライフォース』で語られる昔話に似たような展開があったりと、これまでのシリーズをやってき た人を楽しませてくれる仕掛けが登場します。このほかにも、ファンなら思わずニヤリとしてしまう小ネタがあ るかもしれません。

Some of the characters who appear in the game have names that also appear in the Disk System game "The Adventure of Link," and the story takes turns similar to those in folktales told in "A Link to the Past" ["The Gods' Triforce"]. These and many other things will appeal to longtime players of the series. There may also be little jokes that will have fans grinning.


So, MPS, is this accurate?

Also, can anyone link me to the LA discussion that took place regarding the 2008 interview with Aonuma? I recall someone, perhaps Impossible, mentioning that the "AoL is after OoT" statement didn't count because it was in parentheses, suggesting that it was added in by the interviewer after the interview.

#1572 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:45 PM

It's accurate. Though I don't know what the big deal is, it doesn't tell us anything new, does it?

#1573 Average Gamer

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:14 PM

It's accurate. Though I don't know what the big deal is, it doesn't tell us anything new, does it?


Various posters are claiming that, because of the Virtual Console description for OoT, OoT is still the Seal War and ALttP/LA?LoZ/AoL still follow it. Would you say that VC descriptions for games are indicative of current intent, or are they retro things that are sort of like time capsules?

Edited by Average Gamer, 03 January 2011 - 07:19 PM.


#1574 Fin

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:15 PM

I will never understand why people look to what basically amounts to a sales pitch for their plot information.

#1575 Average Gamer

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:22 PM

I will never understand why people look to what basically amounts to a sales pitch for their plot information.


It's mostly because they're desperate and want their timelines to be true. It's the same reason why people tried to look at Sound & Drama for a bit, even though quotes from it blatantly contradicted ALttP.

Edited by Average Gamer, 03 January 2011 - 07:23 PM.


#1576 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 04:15 PM

I would say "Of course not." The information in these sales pitches only need to give information that was accurate for that game at that time. It's probably copypasta from fucking ten years ago.

#1577 Average Gamer

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:52 PM

Here's a request for MPS. Recently on ZU, people have been debating over whether the sleeping Zelda was at one point meant to be the very first Zelda, with ALttP retconning her status. In the translation on Zelda Legends, though the word shodai is stated to mean "founder", it is also said to mean "first generation."

あのおかたが、初代ゼルダ姫じゃよ

ano okata ga, shodai ZERUDA hime jya yo

That person is the first generation princess Zelda.


"Shodai" means "first generation" or "founder." Presumably, Zelda here is the "first" because all other Zeldas were named after her (she founded the naming tradition). It's not clear whether this means that she predates all other known Zeldas. If anybody was named Zelda before her, maybe it was just a coincidence.


Now, while it makes sense that she'd be the founder of the naming tradition, it seems odd to consider her the first generation Zelda of it, as she wouldn't have been named because of the tradition. Ultimately, does the quote state or imply that the sleeping Zelda was intended to be the very first Zelda at one point?

#1578 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 03:22 PM

It's quite obviously a retcon; that's obvious without a translation. But yea, Shodai does mean "first generation" and "founder."

Naming tradition explains Founder, but technically so does "first generation," as it would be "the first generation of X", with X being the people named Zeldas by mandate, or the original person the mandate was founded on. Another good example would be how...let's see...It would be how a political leader filling an office such as "President" can be the "first generation"/"Founder" of a new political party (let's call it the Zelda Party of Economic Reform), but not be the first "President" or even the first "President Link".

#1579 Average Gamer

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 02:27 AM

It's quite obviously a retcon; that's obvious without a translation.


I was telling people that, but they were insisting that it wasn't a retcon, and some of them even acted as if there have never been retcons. They're too defensive over the possibility of their theories having been retconned.

Naming tradition explains Founder, but technically so does "first generation," as it would be "the first generation of X", with X being the people named Zeldas by mandate, or the original person the mandate was founded on.


It seems strange to consider the sleeping Zelda the first generation of the mandate though, as the mandate wouldn't actually apply to her. Either way, it's clear that she was originally intended to be the very first Zelda. Heck, the name of her tale is the name of the series. Anyway, thanks MPS.

#1580 Impossible

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 03:53 AM

some of them even acted as if there have never been retcons.

Those guys are gonna be really disappointed when they play Ocarina of Time.

...Or TWW. Or SS, most likely. I guess what I'm saying is, there have been an assload of explicit retcons.

But lol, it's ZU. Never change.

#1581 Fin

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 04:03 AM

Could I get a translation for this dialogue from Twilight Princess? Ashei says it in the bar.

I grew up in the mountains with my father, who was a knight in his own right.
He taught me the arts of war as though I was his son.
Of course, lessons in common courtesy were not part of the regimen, so forgive
me if I come off as rude, yeah?
Listen, before I blab both of your ears off, I want to tell you something.
Snowpeak, the mountain to the north of Hyrule... It's unlike any mountain I've
ever known.
I don't know much yet, but things happen there that happen on no other mountain
I know of.
...Evil controls it...
As soon as I know something more, I'll tell you. Until then, you should stay
away, yeah?



#1582 Average Gamer

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:07 PM

Here's another OoX request, involving Lex yet again. He claims that Zelda introducing herself to Link in OoX doesn't mean that she hadn't met him before, even though Jacensolo06 said that Zelda clearly hadn't met Link before.

Eh, the Japanese are huge on honorific speech, and "I knew it at first glance" is actually an idiomatic expression meaning that you recognize something/body, so it's definitely appropriate for such a situation.


あぶないトコロを たすけてくれて ありがとうございます
Thank you for rescuing me from danger.

Thank you for saving me from danger.

わたしの なは ゼルダ あなたが リンクですね ひとめ見れば わかります
My name is Zelda. You must be Link. After taking one look at you, I knew.

My name is Zelda. You must be Link. I knew it at first glance.


It's pretty obvious this is the first time she's met him.


So, does Lex have a case, or is he wrong again?

#1583 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 04:18 PM

Sorta kinda, but "I knew it at first glance" isn't even the original Japanese phrase, so no.

#1584 Average Gamer

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:45 PM

This isn't quite a translation, but...

http://www.zeldauniv...o-the-past.html

Is Lex telling the truth in that thread, or is he butchering Japanese mythology and talking out of his ass? Also, please explain why he's right or wrong in detail.

#1585 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:24 AM

Nope; in Japanese mythology you usually don't totally truly "kill" demons, it just takes a century or two for them to recover. That's why it's always 100 years or more between games.


This really depends. The fact that he's using the term "demon" as an umbrella term, and ignoring distinctions such as youkai, mazoku, etcetera already demonstrates he's absolutely full of shit. Secondly, everything in Japanese mythology as seen as killable, the only exception being truly immortal gods such as Amaterasu.

See Okami, where you chop off all of Orochi's heads, supposedly "killing" him, but he's released 100 years later when Susano withdraws the sword from the Moon Cave; see Four Swords, where the Four Sword hero "exterminated" Vaati but once the Four Sword's seal had weakened he was able to "resurrect"; see Spirit Tracks, where Malladus was reduced to a mere spirit but once the seal was broken he was free to take on a new vessel (similar plotline to OoX and Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door); even in TWW Ganon's simultaneously described as being "sealed away" and yet he was "revived from the depths of the earth."


Eeeeehhhhh...This is sort of a stretch; even without this resurrection rule he's applying, it would still be advised to seal up the spirit of such an entity to prevent reincarnations that are almost certainly just as evil and powerful (this might infact be what Lex is referring to and he might be mistaken on the exact details).

The idea, I think, is that when you kill off a demon they're capable of coming back but only once the magic that defeated them is broken.


"the idea" is that you can't just destroy a soul and it's going to stick around as a very pissy very powerful ghost until it reincarnates and potentially becomes more powerful due to the added vitality of an extra lifetime. A magical resurrection clause needn't come into it.

So yea, for once, Lex isn't speaking ENTIRELY out of his ass.

It's really complicated, but even in the Zelda universe the demons typically don't just resurrect by themselves. Usually some outside agent is required (see Ganon manipulating Zant in TP), or else some power that the demon needs to break free and make its return (Link's blood, power of the sages, Zelda's sacrifice, etc.). The demons usually have some kind of influence even after they're defeated, either to manipulate minions or to regain power through negative emotions sown by their evil power or something.


Evil lords and the like generally aren't patient enough to live another lifetime; this is to the East as it is to the West to have evil wizards and such become vampires or other undead.

Back in the AoL days, it was still implied that Ganon's power was left behind and wrecked havoc across Hyrule after his defeat. It's not 100% clear what this means, but I'm assuming something like how after Orochi is defeated in Okami evil energy rises up from his corpse and goes off to spawn new demons. His minions are trying to bring him back by sacrificing Link's blood, but I wouldn't say that's the only way he could return - they just want to speed up the process.


The original two games had this strong Western Judeo-Christianity vibe. It was probably prose for this Cult of Ganon thing that wanted to resurrect their master.

In LttP, not much is said about the battle against Ganon except that he was inevitably sealed in the Dark World. We know that he needs to gather the power of the maidens descended from the sages to break this seal, which seems to be a physical barrier blocking him from returning to Hyrule. At the same time, we don't know if he was able to take on a physical form while the seal was active because we only see him using Agahnim's body until the final battle. So for all we know Ganon could only exist as a spirit until the seal was broken.


Breaking a seal =/= resurrection, even if the two overlap. Besides, if Ganon had lost his physical form, he would have lost his rights to the Triforce.

In OoT obviously Ganon could only be sealed once they broke his physical body; Zelda commands you to "destroy Ganon with the sacred sword" before they can cast him into the Dark World, and Rauru says that this would result in him being entombed in the abyss of the dead (in the Japanese, mind you; the English version says differently probably due to censorship). I'm assuming that the sum of this is that while Ganon has been physically destroyed they want to seal him in the Dark World so that his evil power doesn't continue to cause problems like it does in LoZ.


The Japanese word being translated into "destroy" can also mean "vanquish", which does not necessary correspond to physical destruction.

Or WAS he?

Zant: Already he has descended and been reborn in this world...


Prose, combined with Zant's skewed perspective. He first saw Ganondorf as a Twilight-Form Spirit, and he mistook him for a God.

#1586 ZeldaZealot

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 02:12 AM

ZeldaZealot has a small request, if nobody minds.

After beating the Temple of Time boss and getting the 3rd shard Midna says something that makes it sound like the Mirror of Twilight is evil and that was at least part of the reason why she shattered it. Only that ZZ can't think of the Mirror as evil, or why it would be so terrible to assemble it, at least from this small point of view.

Here is the english quote from the game:

The evil within the shards is more powerful than you can imagine...

You know, we could be assembling something truly terrible here...

It could be something that we'll ultimately have to destroy...


Edited by ZeldaZealot, 23 April 2011 - 02:12 AM.


#1587 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 04:41 PM

I'm just gonna chip in that just because an object has evil potential doesn't mean it's inherently evil.

#1588 SOAP

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 06:41 PM

ZeldaZealot has a small request, if nobody minds.

After beating the Temple of Time boss and getting the 3rd shard Midna says something that makes it sound like the Mirror of Twilight is evil and that was at least part of the reason why she shattered it. Only that ZZ can't think of the Mirror as evil, or why it would be so terrible to assemble it, at least from this small point of view.

Here is the english quote from the game:

The evil within the shards is more powerful than you can imagine...

You know, we could be assembling something truly terrible here...

It could be something that we'll ultimately have to destroy...


Well SOAP thinks that ZZ can rest assured that the Mirror of Twilight is just a tool and whether it produces good or evil depends on who uses it. :P

The reason she shattered it in the end is that costs of it's misuse was far too great even if it still had the potential for some good (like allowing Link and Midna to still communicate and interact with each other), hence why the sacrifice was so bittersweet.

#1589 Average Gamer

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:00 PM

So, bitterlime on ZU translated this a month ago and I forgot to post it here.

But I saw that on one of the more recent pages you expressed slight confusion about why river Zoras were called "Geozards" in ST.
I was confused about that as well so I looked into it a few months ago.
Turns out that the japanese name is "ギョマゾン" (Giyomazon).

"Giyo/Gyo" is the same combination of symbols that appears in Gyorg and Skullfish (スカルギョ) (Sukarugyo) (Sukaru being derived from "skull").

Gyozoku means fish in japanese.

So a more proper translation for the enemies in ST would have been Fishmazon...or at least Gyomazon.

Since I could find any possible meaning for "mazon" I'm just going to assume that it is a pun on Amazon (the warrior women from greek mythology). It might also be part of a japanese word...explaining why I couldn't translate "mazon" on it's own.

So it has nothing to do with "geo" as in earth. Just thought I'd let you know in case you were still wondering about it.


Also, as a personal side note, I just want to say that ZU seems to be worse than ever. Lex, Beemnorv, Pinecove, etc. are now somehow regressing as theorists, and more new members than ever are failing to check even the first page to see if someone's already brought up a theory.

#1590 Doroc

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 08:54 PM

Hello, this is my fisrt post. I need the Translation of Japanese Game Texts of Cyclos and Zephos form Wind Waker, the 2 wind frogs, When teach Link the Wind's Requiem and the Ballad of Gales.

Also I need the translation of Hero's Shade, of Twiligth Princess, when teach link the last hidden skill.

Thank you for all.




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