139 replies to this topic

[Fyxe]

The game got a score of 97% in the latest Ninty magazine over here. Now, obviously there's some bias, it's a Nintendo magazine, but I haven't seen them give out a score like that for god knows how long (although I think PH did well...).

I don't think it'll lose it's appeal, Splashy... Not that quickly anyway. It could be SM64 all over again. Like SM64, you gotta get used to the controls. But I don't want to say that lightly; comparing it to SM64 is always a bad idea because everyone has such rose-tinted imaginings of the game, elevating it from 'stunning' to 'divine'.
In the review, they refused to give information about much of the game simply because it'll spoil things for players. A spoiler-free review? I don't think they even did that for Twilight Princess. So from what I can tell it'll be a game that just keeps getting better and better.

You say you're sick of 3D Mario games that are initially amazing but lose their appeal? Be fair, hasn't there only been one of them? o.o

[Splash]

I kinda' count Mario 64 as well as Sunshine in that point of view. :x 64 was amazing in many, many ways, but when I ignore how influential it was and only think of how I enjoyed it when I played it... well, I got bored quickly and never felt motivated to complete the entire game (as in collect all the stars, not beat the game. Beating it was a piece of cake).
edit; I know it was the beginning of a new era and of course they were still learning at the time (and still are), but I like to include all games as examples when I make a statement. :3 I'm mean like that.

Edited by Splash, 01 November 2007 - 10:23 AM.

[Fyxe]

I guess you don't like the genre, because I've yet to find a 3D platformer quite as playable as SM64. o.o Certainly took me ages to get bored of it, anyway.

[Splash]

Psychonauts.

edit; Just using my best example first, sorry. D: I'm a big fan of 3D platformers/action-adventures. But like I said, SM64 was an excellent game overall, so don't think I'm just trying to insult it. I'm just being honest about my reaction to playing it.


editedit; Teehee!
http://kotaku.com/ga...disc-317591.php

Edited by Splash, 01 November 2007 - 11:09 AM.

[GJ Skywalker]

The game got a score of 97% in the latest Ninty magazine over here. Now, obviously there's some bias, it's a Nintendo magazine, but I haven't seen them give out a score like that for god knows how long (although I think PH did well...).

I don't think it'll lose it's appeal, Splashy... Not that quickly anyway. It could be SM64 all over again. Like SM64, you gotta get used to the controls. But I don't want to say that lightly; comparing it to SM64 is always a bad idea because everyone has such rose-tinted imaginings of the game, elevating it from 'stunning' to 'divine'.
In the review, they refused to give information about much of the game simply because it'll spoil things for players. A spoiler-free review? I don't think they even did that for Twilight Princess. So from what I can tell it'll be a game that just keeps getting better and better.

You say you're sick of 3D Mario games that are initially amazing but lose their appeal? Be fair, hasn't there only been one of them? o.o

Was it NOM Fyxe? Because of the postal strike I have still haven't got my NGamer yet.

[spunky-monkey]

The game got a score of 97% in the latest Ninty magazine over here.

Only 3 percent short of perfection? I know they're painfully bias towards Mario, Pokemon and Zelda but that doesn't leave a lot of room for error, either they're so sure of themselves or this game is something to behold.

But I don't want to say that lightly; comparing it to SM64 is always a bad idea because everyone has such rose-tinted imaginings of the game, elevating it from 'stunning' to 'divine'.

Mario 64 despite being revolutionary does have shortcomings; graphically it has aged badly, but nonetheless remains a classic that shows us what Nintendo are truly capable of when they pull their finger out. I can't emphasis how long it's been since we've seen such shameless platforming-magic on display, and why I'll be especially crushed if Galaxy loses all appeal and playability like Sunshine did.


Yoshi better be fully-playable in this game damn it. Ninty I don't want cameos or evil time-limits.

[Chaltab]

Yeah, I disagree on Mario 64. Even playing it eight years later on the DS I thought it was an excellent game. Granted the DS game looked considerably better than the original version, but the core gameplay was mostly unchanged. The levels are varied and interesting, the scenarios don't try to make sense of things. (Are the paintings portals to other places in the Mushroom Kingdom or fiction realms themselves? Who cares!?), and the control is spot-on.

Sunshine's problem was two fold--the levels were in many ways too similar (I don't even remember any of the level names from that game.) And the objectives were too repetitive, relying too much on the FLUDD. There was a lot of good, but it was mixed with a bit too much uncharacteristic bleh.

[D~N]

While I agree with nearly all of your points, Chaltab, there is one thing I don't quite see within SM64 that everyone else seems to enjoy. That is the controls. Spot on? I don't see how people found them better than sunshine; they were too clunky rough, and perhaps even jagged. The camera in Sunshine is way way better, I don't know where that argument comes from. Also, punching, jumping, wall-jumping, and most importantly, Mario's attacks, were all difficult to execute. Well, no, not difficult - less smooth than sunshine's mechanics, I'd say. The punching and attacking couldn't be done while moving, and that frustrated me a lot - thank goodness for the run-and-dive move. At least in sunshine you could run 'n' gun. Also, half-turn jumps were just flat-out easier in Sunshine. Wall jumps, eh, maybe not so much of a change, but they certainly improved along with everything else.

So, then, what controls are you talking about that are better? And not just you; anyone who think's Mario 64's controls are better can answer me this question, because perhaps I'm the one that's missing something.

[Chaltab]

While I agree with nearly all of your points, Chaltab, there is one thing I don't quite see within SM64 that everyone else seems to enjoy. That is the controls. Spot on? I don't see how people found them better than sunshine; they were too clunky rough, and perhaps even jagged. The camera in Sunshine is way way better, I don't know where that argument comes from. Also, punching, jumping, wall-jumping, and most importantly, Mario's attacks, were all difficult to execute. Well, no, not difficult - less smooth than sunshine's mechanics, I'd say. The punching and attacking couldn't be done while moving, and that frustrated me a lot - thank goodness for the run-and-dive move. At least in sunshine you could run 'n' gun. Also, half-turn jumps were just flat-out easier in Sunshine. Wall jumps, eh, maybe not so much of a change, but they certainly improved along with everything else.

So, then, what controls are you talking about that are better? And not just you; anyone who think's Mario 64's controls are better can answer me this question, because perhaps I'm the one that's missing something.

Well, the controls are fine for the scenarios the game puts you through. The controls in Sunshine are much tighter.. But that's due to six years of improving on an already-good formula and having a camera stick instead of buttons. I never really had a problem with the basic Mario 64 controls. Wall-jumping was pretty hard to execute sometimes, but otherwise I have no real complaints.

[Fyxe]

I'd argue that the controls in Sunshine are actually too tight, to the extent where things feel a bit less fluid and natural. It's especially annoying when trying to grab hold of an enemy. But to be frank, aside from the fact that Mario has less attacking options in Sunshine, the controls are so similar that it's not worth worrying about. One of the biggest problems with Sunshine is that it relies too much on the hovering function of FLUDD, thus reducing the skill of the platforming.

Oh, and also the wonderful swimming element of SM64 was almost entirely removed.

[Arturo]

Fr me there was just a complain on SM64 controls, how difficult jumping on the wall was.

[SteveT]

One of the biggest problems with Sunshine is that it relies too much on the hovering function of FLUDD, thus reducing the skill of the platforming.

I agree to an extent. FLUDD definitely reduced the difficulty, but I would say that Sunshine was still a harder game than 64 (except for maybe the levels on the top floor of Peach's castle).

[Showsni]

Oh, and also the wonderful swimming element of SM64 was almost entirely removed.

I hated swimming in SM64. That was before I owned an N64, though, so I hadn't got used to the controls; my friend had one, and I was pretty laughably bad at moving in the 3D games.

[Mad Scrub]

The swimming controls in SMS are dreadful and wall jumping was made way too easy.

[spunky-monkey]

I don't know where you guys are getting this "dodgy-controls" argument for SM64, there was nothing problematic or even tasking about executing Mario's moves, granted it had a learning curve but the excellent responsive analogue stick coupled with overall easy difficulty meant you're supposed to practice swimming and doing these wall jumps until you get to grips with timing; sounds like your N64 controllers are knackered or you're all used to 2-D games. The only mechanism that notably fouled up gamers was those stupid camera angles, a glitch that was persistent in Sunshine too, but arriving many years later SMS has no excuse for said design flaw.


You want to see awkward wall jumps? Play Super Metroid on Super Nintendo. I double dog dare you. That game requires absolute perfect precision, anything less and you'll fall back down; have mercy, those programmers could have at least given you several seconds to recover and/or build up momentum, but no. I found this painstaking process was only elevated after Samus acquires the Screw Attack.

Edited by Ricky, 03 November 2007 - 12:07 PM.

[D~N]

This is no fault of Mario 64's, and I don't think anyone could honestly say those controls were bad. I wasn't trying to defile our beloved '64, but rather to counter the "Sunshine argument". For it's time, '64's controls were outstanding. But then I always hear people complaining about the step-down that Sunshine took in the controls. But I think it's quite the opposite.

Can someone explain how they think SUnshine has worse controls, or more importantly, how they think that Sunshine has a camera "glitch"? I thought the controls were smooth and without flaw, but perhaps I was just fortunate enough to have never experienced it.

[Xkeeper]

You want to see awkward wall jumps? Play Super Metroid on Super Nintendo. I double dog dare you. That game requires absolute perfect precision, anything less and you'll fall back down; have mercy, those programmers could have at least given you several seconds to recover and/or build up momentum, but no. I found this painstaking process was only elevated after Samus acquires the Screw Attack.

I don't know about you, but for the most part around my 4th try I was doing wall jumps consistantly (i.e., making them 95% of the time). The fact Samus's sprite changes to let you know just makes it easier.

[Chaltab]

Hm. I played a bit of Galaxy at GameStop yesterday.

I'm not sure it was just the controller set up they had there, but movement and jumping felt kind of slow, like someone dialed the inertia way up.

It might have just been the gravity of the planet I was on, though.

[Masamune]

Personally I thought SMS was a lot better than SM64 in every aspect. I've never understood the hate.

[SOAP]

I'm with Masa. I even liked the fact that I actually CAN pull off a wall jump in SMS. I never could in SM64. I also fail to see the correlation of difficulty and whether a game is good or not. The only thing I didn't like is it wasn't in the Mushroom Kingdom but that's a moot point.

[Chaltab]

I never could in SM64. I also fail to see the correlation of difficulty and whether a game is good or not.

Pretty simple: if a game is too easy, it becomes boring. If a game is too hard it makes you want to throw your controller through the TV. A good game is hard enough to make you work for victory and easy enough that it doesn't make you hate it. Both thresholds vary between people, though.

[spunky-monkey]

Galaxy just keeps looking better and better, I haven't preordered a copy so I hope I'll get mine for Christmas. The boss battles are graphically stunning and the dramatic music keeps you tense throughout, very unusual for a 3-D Mario game.

Can someone explain how they think Sunshine has worse controls, or more importantly, how they think that Sunshine has a camera "glitch"? I thought the controls were smooth and without flaw, but perhaps I was just fortunate enough to have never experienced it.

Okay, the GameCube's controller was much more sensitive which should have allowed Sunshine finer accuracy and much more flexible movement than SM64, but the difficulty of levels was compromised by the camera freaking out when you're in the middle of triple-jumping up platforms; the worse example of this is red coin challenges on those stupid sub-worlds, usually ones with sand blocks; you'd jump up and scramble to get up the next quickly then the camera angle shifts causing Mario to either step down a level, or literally run straight off the platform and into the void below. ¬.¬

Believe it or not this exact same problem also existed in Majora's Mask. Whenever you climbed up certain blocks (Beneath Graveyard) the silly camera would automatically orientate itself behind Link, however I could compensate for this, but for Sunshine I often had no chance whatsoever thanks to time-limits.

Another pain-in-the-arse control involving miserable sand blocks is when Mario would involuntarily push against the block instead of jump up it, wasting precious time. I can remember hammering at the button screaming "Jump you idiot! Jump!" only for the block to crumble and pointlessly waste a life.

As the Angry Video Game Nerd once said:-
"Challenge is one thing, but when the challenge is based on how crippled the controls are then, F*** IT!" =P

I don't know about you, but for the most part around my 4th try I was doing wall jumps consistantly (i.e., making them 95% of the time). The fact Samus's sprite changes to let you know just makes it easier.

If you really had no trouble on the SNES version then I salute you sir.

Edited by Ricky, 04 November 2007 - 07:11 AM.

[Fyxe]

I had no trouble with wall jumping on Super Metroid either. The trick is to not jump too early. Most people press the button too soon. You have to do it when Samus actually plants her feet on the wall. That's about it, really.

I originally found it very difficult, but I was a kid back then.

Of course, it also helps that I was playing the mildly slower PAL version, which might make them a tad easier, but even so. You want difficult? Bomb Jumping. Doing repeated Bomb Jumps like the title screen demo does is insanely tricky, even with practice.

[spunky-monkey]

I'd really appreciate it if someone could submit or link to any decent Super Mario Galaxy reviews; its just I'd like to at least know what to expect from this title since nostalgia seems to interfere with most gaming experiences for me lately. So far, I can say Galaxy feels like the spiritual sequel to SM64, whether or not it's a clone in terms of gameplay is unlikely, though remains to be seen.

I had no trouble with wall jumping on Super Metroid either. The trick is to not jump too early. Most people press the button too soon. You have to do it when Samus actually plants her feet on the wall. That's about it, really.

Wondering if our PAL version is responsible (never liked how German or French text always appeared during prologue and text cut-scenes). I found timing the split-second Samus makes contact with the wall virtually impossible, yes Wall Jumping can be done with reasonably amount of effort, but this doesn't alter the fact those sections have ruined every single speedrun attempt for me so far...

...I also just realised that Super Metroid would be ridiculously easy if Samus would auto-target enemies and bosses; without all that hopping, jumping and constant aiming these fights are cake.

Of course, it also helps that I was playing the mildly slower PAL version, which might make them a tad easier, but even so. You want difficult? Bomb Jumping. Doing repeated Bomb Jumps like the title screen demo does is insanely tricky, even with practice.

This may annoy you, but ironically I found this was far easier than on Metroid Prime (memories of that horribly hard to reach Energy Tank above molten lava come back to me); I honestly can't explain how other than pushing buttons randomly and more often than not Samus surmounts the obstacle no problem, also I might point out there aren't that many areas in Super Metroid dependant on Bomb Jumping solely.

[Fyxe]

This may annoy you, but ironically I found this was far easier than on Metroid Prime (memories of that horribly hard to reach Energy Tank above molten lava come back to me); I honestly can't explain how other than pushing buttons randomly and more often than not Samus surmounts the obstacle no problem, also I might point out there aren't that many areas in Super Metroid dependant on Bomb Jumping solely.

I'm not talking about a standard three bombs jump. That is more difficult in Prime simply because that's the epitome of Bomb Jumping in those games. I'm talking about infinite Bomb Jumping. Essentially, Bomb Jumping from a lower level of Crateria all the way up to the cliff at the top right, for example. Or Bomb Jumping up from the bottom of the tall shaft in Brinstar so you don't have to use the Ice Beam. And so on. That is a hell of a lot more difficult than Wall Jumping up the Etecoons bit.

Watch the opening demo of the game to see what I mean.

Edited by Fyxe, 05 November 2007 - 11:00 AM.

[vodkamaru]

I'm surprised no one has posted since the game came out. This is definitely my favorite wii game so far. It looks gorgeous and plays superbly. I really don't know where to begin. The nostalgia factor is incredible. It has enemies levels and music from every Mario game released. They managed to include Mario Golf and Tennis in there too. I think its just fun to mess around with the goofy gravity. There's small platforms that have their own gravity like a planet would and I'll just run around and long jump off one and and circle it a few times before gracefully landing again. Like I said, it controls like a dream. Not only that, but the camera is pretty spot on when you need it to move. The transition from 3D to 2D segments is flawless and you're never really turned around too much. The only problem is that you don't get to control the camera as much as you could in Mario 64. Besides that small complaint, I really couldn't ask for more from this game. This will definitely keep you busy until Brawl comes out.

Edited by vodkamaru, 14 November 2007 - 10:19 PM.

[D~N]

No posts because anyone who owns it is too busy loving the dame to death! I LOVE this game. Here are your options: you have none. Buy this game! No "if's", "and's", or "but's".

[CID Farwin]

*Ahem*

EVERYBODY WHO HAS THIS GAME ALREADY SUCKS!!!!!

I wanted to pre-order it last month except I didn't have the money, and I haven't had the chance to go out anywhere to get it because my brother and my sister both moved in and they both have their two kids, and I end up tending all four of them with my mom(My sister usually sleeps until 2, her husband has work, my dad has work, my brother has work, and he's divorced). By the time there's enough people here to tend the kids, I've forgotten already that I need to go buy this game. Not to mention that both my brother and my brother-in-law are both too busy playing WOW to tend their kids, so I end up tending them all day.

At least My sister moved out last week moved out this Sunday will move out soon.

...maybe that should go in the ranting forum...

At least I'm buying the game tomorrow, when my former sister-in-law takes the kids(for one stinkin' day.)

[Green Goblin]

I concur. I'm up to 30 stars right now, and i'm lovin' every minute of it

[DarkJuno]

While I actually loved Sunshine, I'll keep it brief - this is hands down the best freakin' game I have played in a long, long ass time, period.