121 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

Where do you get that from?

Partly from the TWW scene where Link uses the Triforce of Courage to get into Hyrule.

[Duke Serkol]

Ah I see what you mean... he was carrying it around already but he only gained the title at the moment.
That could also be because the Triforce had been fragmented and not in a neat way (like Zelda did in LoZ or the King in TWW's backstory).

[SOAP]

Where do you get that from?

Partly from the TWW scene where Link uses the Triforce of Courage to get into Hyrule.

I thought that was because the Gods chose him. Or the ToC itself chose him. Something like that.

[MikePetersSucks]

Well point is, TWW Link demonstrates that just because you touch a Triforce piece doesn't mean it automatically merges with you. It has to chose you, or something.

[Person]

So why didn't the ToP choose Link? He had pretty much demonstrated both Power and Courage by killing Ganon.

[SOAP]

Well point is, TWW Link demonstrates that just because you touch a Triforce piece doesn't mean it automatically merges with you. It has to chose you, or something.

I thought your point was that you have to use it, somehow.

[MikePetersSucks]

I think that was a typo on my point. God knows I've typo'd entire sentences. I'm mature enough to admit that I type before I finish thinking, so everyone keep that in mind.

So why didn't the ToP choose Link? He had pretty much demonstrated both Power and Courage by killing Ganon.

Just because he demonstrated Power doesn't mean the Triforce of Power would choose him. From the looks of it, it might be because of the King's Spell, as alluded in AoL.

[Fyxe]

The spell had not occured until Zelda II, which requires the Triforce of Courage to be in the Great Palace. Which it clearly isn't whenever Link is 'chosen' by the ToC.

The Triforce chooses the bearer based on who represents it's trait best. Yes, Link has all three traits, Power, Wisdom and Courage. Zelda and Ganon do as well. But Link has Courage more than Power or Wisdom, and Ganon's trait is obviously Power. Zelda clearly represents Wisdom better.

Also, there's no evidence that the WHOLE Triforce, when depicted as three triangles, EVER merges with anyone. Has everyone forgotten this? It only 'merges' with people when it's being 'dormant' (well, sort of) within someone. It's a defensive measure that occurs when someone with an unbalanced heart touches the Triforce. It's a way of stopping Ganon from getting the Triforce.

In later games (in the 'timeline') however, once the Triforce has been reunited, it's shown as three triangles and never seems to go 'within' anyone. Although you could argue that Ganon holds the Triforce of Power within himself.

Edited by Fyxe, 06 July 2007 - 05:19 AM.

[Duke Serkol]

Just because he demonstrated Power doesn't mean the Triforce of Power would choose him. From the looks of it, it might be because of the King's Spell, as alluded in AoL.

But then, just because there is not a King of Red Lions to emphasize it doesn't mean the Triforce of Power couldn't recognize Link as its new master. In fact, since he has taken it from Ganon (much like how Ganon takes it from Link and Zelda in TWW, except with a lot more bloodshed) I would wager that this in itself grants it to him.

But this actually allows me to bring up something I've been idly mulling over: where do you guys think the Triforce parts from LoZ are during AoL? Kept somewhere in the castle like in Oracles? Or within Link?

On one hand it would make sense if he kept them since (according to the story) he never could have defeated ganon without a Triforce part to rival his, meaning they do help him in his struggles.
On the other hand, Link is targeted for by Ganon's underlings who want to sacrifice him, so it could be seen as safer to keep the Triforce in the castle, and the manual only says Link departed with a Magic Sword and Shield.

[Arturo]

Don't the three golden triangles appear from Link when he awakens Sleeping Zelda? I think that's visual evidence for the secodn theory. And also, it would be safer with Link, because Hyrule was a ruin by that time...

[Duke Serkol]

Hyrule was on the road to ruin, not conquered already.

Anyway, the three triangles don't appear from Link, we see a triangle held up in Link's hands (just as he hold any item, only he's facing away from the screen), then it turns out it is all three pieces as each starts floating the different directions.

[Fyxe]

But this actually allows me to bring up something I've been idly mulling over: where do you guys think the Triforce parts from LoZ are during AoL? Kept somewhere in the castle like in Oracles? Or within Link?

I would expect the pieces are kept safe by Zelda. The OTHER Zelda who makes no appearance in Zelda II. The one Link saved in the previous game. She's gotta play some role since she makes no appearance, and that's a good one in my opinion.

The amusing thing about the end of Zelda II is that Link is essentially 'gettin' his freak on' with both Zeldas. o.o

[TheAvengerLever]

Well, how exactly is that going to work though? Wouldn't both Zelda's want a place of power in Hyrule? Surely, the awakened Zelda would feel robbed of her throne.

[Fyxe]

Yeah, but she's getting Link nookie.

Actually, in all seriousness, I think she'd be glad to be alive. I hardly think she'd complain about her old job being lost. This is possibly why they made her a romantic partner to Link, because the other Zelda is running Hyrule, and this Zelda from the past is free of her royal duties and can settle down with someone (like Link).

[TheAvengerLever]

But this can all only be speculation.

[MikePetersSucks]

well, the fact that Hyrule was split into two countries at that point, both desperately needing leadership, patches things up nicely.

[Fyxe]

Split into two countries?

No, don't think so. It's all Hyrule. There's no other country.

[TheAvengerLever]

I've been wondering what the guh you were talking about, MPS. There aren't two countries in AOL. It's all considered Hyrule.

[Showsni]

Of course, in LoZ and AoL Zelda's kingdom encompasses only a small part of Hyrule itself, Hyrule in this case being the name for the whole land. The kingdom itself is unnamed. Since the sleeping Zelda was the sister to a prince anyway, she would never have expected to rule in her own day, so why should she feel robbed now?

[Duke Serkol]

Well, how exactly is that going to work though? Wouldn't both Zelda's want a place of power in Hyrule? Surely, the awakened Zelda would feel robbed of her throne.

Actually considering that the game implies Link will get hitched with the awakened Zelda and that the manual says the crystals and scroll Link is given by Impa were kept for a great King to come, it appears that against all logic, it will be present day Zelda who shall step down and let the other ancient Zelda rule the country.

[SOAP]

well, the fact that Hyrule was split into two countries at that point, both desperately needing leadership, patches things up nicely.

I don't think the Sleeping Zelda would be a legitimate princess. It would be like if Abe Lincoln came back from the dead alive and well.

Edited by SOAP, 06 July 2007 - 06:29 PM.

[Fyxe]

Of course, in LoZ and AoL Zelda's kingdom encompasses only a small part of Hyrule itself, Hyrule in this case being the name for the whole land. The kingdom itself is unnamed. Since the sleeping Zelda was the sister to a prince anyway, she would never have expected to rule in her own day, so why should she feel robbed now?

Eh? Hyrule is a kingdom. That's how lands get their names. Kingdoms ARE countries. That's how it works.

I don't know where people get the logic that the Death Mountain region is the entire kingdom of Hyrule. It clearly isn't. There's no castle, no towns, nothing, just caves and ancient ruins and dungeons and mountains and forests. It's one part of Hyrule, Zelda II expanded and revealed that Hyrule was a much larger, fully functioning kingdom made up of two significant land masses and a few islands and possibly even more.

Also, if there's a North Castle, there's presumably a South Castle off the map somewhere. That'd be where the Triforce of Wisdom was kept, I expect, and that'd be where Zelda is.

Either that or North Castle is the only Hyrule Castle in TLoZ and Zelda II. I can't really remember the manual story in detail right now.

[Arturo]

But Zelda can't have it, since the ToW appears in AoL ending.

[Fyxe]

I meant before TLoZ occurs. Zelda and the ToW must have been somewhere. I hardly think the princess lived in a mountain cave.

And just because Link has it at the ending doesn't mean he carried it throughout the adventure, he could have, I dunno, gone and got it. ¬.¬

[TheAvengerLever]

It is kinda strange to think Link had the ToW and the ToP all that time after LoZ.

[Duke Serkol]

Also, if there's a North Castle, there's presumably a South Castle off the map somewhere. That'd be where the Triforce of Wisdom was kept, I expect, and that'd be where Zelda is.

Either that or North Castle is the only Hyrule Castle in TLoZ and Zelda II. I can't really remember the manual story in detail right now.

I would assume since we see none in the game that it is called North Castle because it's in the northern part of the land (as opposed to the center of it as capitals often are). And since ALttP came out it may also be because the previous castle was in the south.
I mean, yes, another one could be off the map, but that'd be kind of weird, wouldn't it? Besides we can see North Caslte from Impa's window so it's clear she lives near (and having been Zelda's nursemaid I would suppose Zelda lives in it)

Anyway, I'm sure the two Triforce parts was kept in the castle before LoZ, it's after it that I'm not so sure (because of its tendency to stick inside its owners).

[MikePetersSucks]

As for Hyrule being split in two, I remember hearing that Hyrule became Hyrule and some sort of annexed West Hyrule.

But forget it, my point remains valid. They could easily divide the country between them, or rule as Twin Princesses.

I'd also assume that the Triforce pieces went back to the castle after LOZ, like the cartoon clearly shows. Of course, it's non-canon, but the intent is there.

[Duke Serkol]

The intent of who, that's the question. But yeah, seeing as it was probably kept in the castle where Ganon stole it (and the concept of keeping it within oneself was yet to be introduced)...

Edited by Duke Serkol, 07 July 2007 - 08:40 PM.

[Showsni]

Eh? Hyrule is a kingdom. That's how lands get their names. Kingdoms ARE countries. That's how it works.

I don't know where people get the logic that the Death Mountain region is the entire kingdom of Hyrule. It clearly isn't. There's no castle, no towns, nothing, just caves and ancient ruins and dungeons and mountains and forests. It's one part of Hyrule, Zelda II expanded and revealed that Hyrule was a much larger, fully functioning kingdom made up of two significant land masses and a few islands and possibly even more.

Also, if there's a North Castle, there's presumably a South Castle off the map somewhere. That'd be where the Triforce of Wisdom was kept, I expect, and that'd be where Zelda is.

Either that or North Castle is the only Hyrule Castle in TLoZ and Zelda II. I can't really remember the manual story in detail right now.

I never said that area is the kingdom. We're not told where the borders of Zelda's kingdom are. But the fact remains that it is a small kingdom situated within the larger land of Hyrule during LoZ and AoL: "In the middle of this chaos, in a little kingdom in the land of Hyrule, a legend was being banded down from generation to generation, the legend of the "Triforce"; golden triangles possessing mystical powers."

Edited by Showsni, 07 July 2007 - 09:57 PM.

[provehito]

Hyrule is used in two different ways throughout the history of the series. It is used as a title for the world/realm itself and for the kingdom. Later games in the series, however, seem to make it apparent that Hyrule is just a name for the kingdom. Hyrule being buried under the sea in the Wind Waker (the world itself can't be buried under the sea since the sea exists within the world, but that sentence just confused me, heh) shows that Hyrule is, in fact, a kingdom and not the world. Rusl, in Twilight Princess, states that the world beyond Hyrule is bigger.

The term Hyrule was retconned from being conclusive of the world in its entirety to being just the kingdom itself. At least it appears that way to me.