162 replies to this topic

[MikePetersSucks]

But then, you are saying that god is an ignorant, which does not fit a perfect god

In some interpretations. Perfect =/= All-Knowing/Powerful.

In that case, I could say as well that god limits his own goodness to be able to act as a not-nice god.

And God can of course do that.

I'm an asshole anyway, so what does it matter to infuriate me?

Maybe, if you're lucky, I'll overreact to something and get banned. Is that what you'd want? That way, there's less opposition when you decide to debate Christianity!

Score one for you.

WHAT IS UP WITH YOU? Seriously, we're not out to get you. Well, Vodka, might, but he's a jerk.

I have to disagree, seriously. I'm sure you could pick anything and find someone who it offends (a chocolate jesus for christ's sake or even this). I understand if someone says "your god is an asshole" or "your belief system is worthless" action may need to be taken for the sake of civility, but thats a direct attack at an individual. Let them be infuriated because if they're not emotionally mature enough to handle the word ass in reference to their deity then they deserve it. Call people out if they offend you. Stand up for your beliefs. Just don't make other people be quiet because you don't like the words they used.

I guess you're a stranger to the whole "Empathy" thing.

[vodkamaru]

I guess you're a stranger to the whole "Empathy" thing.

Apparently so. You too, right?

Seriously, we're not out to get you. Well, Vodka, might, but he's a jerk.

That's right. I'm out to get you and I got a KNIFE...

Edited by vodkamaru, 11 July 2007 - 12:55 AM.

[Selena]

Just don't make other people be quiet because you don't like the words they used.

Thing is, mate, I'm not silencing you. I'm telling you to debate in a respectful, mature manner. Present your arguments in a more appropriate fashion and people will not only get along better, but they'll be more likely to listen to you. People don't have to be disrespectful to get their point across. You go on about people being immature in regards to you calling their god an asshole (which is what you're doing regardless of whether you use the phrase 'god is asshole' or 'your god is an asshole' since they both refer to the Judeo-Christian one in the context of the thread), but I would think that someone who's actually mature would know better than to use those kind of phrases in the first place. So no dice. As I said, I am not going to change my stance and I was quite clear with what will happen if it continues.



Back to the debate.

[vodkamaru]

Thing is, mate, I'm not silencing you.

you will be suspended

That's all. Shutting up now. I'll post this documentary to myself get back on track. It does feature some Richard Dawkins. Hopefully that won't immediately discredit it for some.

Edited by vodkamaru, 11 July 2007 - 01:08 AM.

[Selena]

edit: Nevermind. If it's over, it's over. I think my stance was clear enough despite the quoting strategy used above.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I still can't see where anyone is calling God an arsehole, but since we've dropped the discussion I'll just attempt to steer the conversation back towards where it started.

Quite often, it's not religion and evolution that clash, it's religion and science. I've noticed an underlying resentment amongst Christians who argue against evolution and even science, saying that science is demeaning in that it forgets about God and deliberately leaves him out of the discussion. The majority of these would be called Fundamentalist Christians, although I have seen some mainstream Christians arguing the same thing... although judging from some of the things they say, I have serious doubts about whether they are mainstream or not.

I remember reading one article written about a woman who found out what science just found out about the stars. Then she claims that God knew this all along and quotes some random text from the Bible that can be construed a certain way to mean what the scientists had found. Then chiding the scientists for not reading the Bible.

Arrogancy has a lot to answer for when it comes to these conflicts.

I try not to be arrogant, but it irritates me when people say religion answers these questions and that's why it's better than science in this respect. Yet, religion doesn't answer them to the same degree of scrutiny that science does, which means the answers can't be better. I'm sorry, but "Religion answers why" is like saying "God did it", except the former might go into a little bit more elaboration.

Religion is a faith thing. It brings people together. It comforts people. Heck, it even makes people conform, or at least it tries to. There's many guidelines and rules to follow and obey. Someone before me said the Bible was a cookbook. It seems to me a bit more vague than a cookbook. If seven people tried "cooking" from the same religion, they'd end up with seven different things: a cake, a porridge, a soup, a steak, a pie, a tart and a pasty.

To me, religion seems more like a passerby you ask directions for. He points you in some vague direction and you follow them. You might get their in the end, get lost a bit... you might find a better way to get there, a more interesting way... You might not even get there at all.

In fact, let's face it. That's not even a good analogy. Religion is like religion. It isn't science. It can't answer; it only suggests. With science, it answers a question and shows you why the answer must be correct. That's it; there's no ifs and buts until science comes up with a better answer. With religion, it suggests. You can find a different answer, but there's no way to tell which is the more correct answer until its too late.

[Reflectionist]

I'm an asshole anyway, so what does it matter to infuriate me?

Maybe, if you're lucky, I'll overreact to something and get banned. Is that what you'd want? That way, there's less opposition when you decide to debate Christianity!

Score one for you.

WHAT IS UP WITH YOU? Seriously, we're not out to get you. Well, Vodka, might, but he's a jerk.

I have an inferiority complex. Sorry.

[Doopliss]

And God can of course do that.

Well, yes, I suppose that is true. God can be allmighty and allknowing at the same time he is not, after all, he is god. I am not being sarcastic, I am being serious: if we believe in god, then we must believe that he can contradict reason's principles. That means that it does not matter whether he is allmighty and allknowing or not, for practical purposes, it is the same.

[MikePetersSucks]

Well, yes, I suppose that is true. God can be allmighty and allknowing at the same time he is not, after all, he is god. I am not being sarcastic, I am being serious: if we believe in god, then we must believe that he can contradict reason's principles. That means that it does not matter whether he is allmighty and allknowing or not, for practical purposes, it is the same.

No one's saying he's BOTH at once and contradicting himself. Just as God can observe all things, can't he close an eye to part of, or all of his creation? He'd be a pretty pathetic deity if he couldn't limit his own abilities. It'd be like Superman with constant heat vision.

[Doopliss]

No one's saying he's BOTH at once and contradicting himself. Just as God can observe all things, can't he close an eye to part of, or all of his creation? He'd be a pretty pathetic deity if he couldn't limit his own abilities. It'd be like Superman with constant heat vision.

God may choose to limit the use of his abilities because he does not fall in a contradiction if he limits that. Abilties do not need to be used in order to exist. However, he cannot limit his abilties, by this I mean, he cannot be allmighty and unable to do something at the same time. Anyway, if he can do everything, he can do something that he cannot do, as being allmighty forces him to fall in this contradiction. Using this, one could say that god does not exist because he is not rationally possible, however, we must have faith in him and believe that we just cannot understand him.

And, as a side comment, I would like to point out that you were right in your last post; using god's knowledge cannot be used to prove that he falls in contradictions, as he could limit his ability to know everything.

[MikePetersSucks]

God may choose to limit the use of his abilities because he does not fall in a contradiction if he limits that. Abilties do not need to be used in order to exist. However, he cannot limit his abilties, by this I mean, he cannot be allmighty and unable to do something at the same time. Anyway, if he can do everything, he can do something that he cannot do, as being allmighty forces him to fall in this contradiction. Using this, one could say that god does not exist because he is not rationally possible, however, we must have faith in him and believe that we just cannot understand him.

Ah, but if he never tries to do something he cannot do, then the paradox never comes into existence. Just like there's no grandfather paradox if you don't try and kill your grandpa.

[arunma]

Well, this explains a LOT.

Is Hitler like, your hero or something? You like genocide at the expense of people who believe differently than you?

And i suppose this is the most accurate representation of Jesus ever, right?

Oh...this one's so iffy. Reflectionist, the above comment doesn't technically violate any rules, so I guess I can't do anything. But please debate ideas and not people in the future. Because otherwise, I'll have to start rewriting the rules to prevent these kinds of statements.

[SOAP]

Well this thread went weird places. Good thing I dropped out when I did.

I can't believe this but I actually agree with Wolf here. Or at least I see his point. Religion doesn't answer "Why." In fact, I've come to realize through my walks with God, then one thing he isn't keen on is "Why?" Why is homosexuality called a lifestyle sin but remarrying isn't considered adultery? Why did my sister get in a car accident the day after we got into a heated fight and I refused to forgive her? Why must I do good things for God and others when I still get kicked and spit at either way? Why is that the people that hurt me the most are the ones who are supposed to be my Christian brothers and sisters?

Religion does not answer the Why's. I see that now. Religious people try to answer those why's the best they can but their answers are always some vague, Sunday school answer. The most honest answer I have ever got from religion to such questions is "God works in mysterious ways."

What religion does do is that it gives people a purpose. The Why's don't matter as much. Why are we here? Who knows, but religion gives some people a reason to be glad that we are. Unfortunately, for some religious people, particularly Chritian Fundementalist, simply being glad we're her isn't enough. Everyone has to believe as they do or they're absolutely worthless as human being. Even if that person is from the same faith, if their beliefs don't align with every core belief of the majority, even if the majority is WRONG about some things, that person must shape up or shunned from the religious community. I'm tired of shaping up. You know what? I was happier being a Satanist.

Screw this, I'm done. I don't believe in God anymore.

Edited by SOAP, 12 July 2007 - 07:13 PM.

[Reflectionist]

Well this thread went weird places. Good thing I dropped out when I did.

I can't believe this but I actually agree with Wolf here. Or at least I see his point. Religion doesn't answer "Why." In fact, I've come to realize through my walks with God, then one thing he isn't keen on is "Why?" Why is homosexuality called a lifestyle sin but remarrying isn't considered adultery? Why did my sister get in a car accident the day after we got into a heated fight and I refused to forgive her? Why must I do good things for God and others when I still get kicked and spit at either way? Why is that the people that hurt me the most are the ones who are supposed to be my Christian brothers and sisters?

Religion does not answer the Why's. I see that now. Religious people try to answer those why's the best they can but their answers are always some vague, Sunday school answer. The most honest answer I have ever got from religion to such questions is "God works in mysterious ways."

What religion does do is that it gives people a purpose. The Why's don't matter as much. Why are we here? Who knows, but religion gives some people a reason to be glad that we are. Unfortunately, for some religious people, particularly Chritian Fundementalist, simply being glad we're her isn't enough. Everyone has to believe as they do or they're absolutely worthless as human being. Even if that person is from the same faith, if their beliefs don't align with every core belief of the majority, even if the majority is WRONG about some things, that person must shape up or shunned from the religious community. I'm tired of shaping up. You know what? I was happier being a Satanist.

Screw this, I'm done. I don't believe in God anymore.

As long as you're happy. :-)

[SOAP]

Well this thread went weird places. Good thing I dropped out when I did.

I can't believe this but I actually agree with Wolf here. Or at least I see his point. Religion doesn't answer "Why." In fact, I've come to realize through my walks with God, then one thing he isn't keen on is "Why?" Why is homosexuality called a lifestyle sin but remarrying isn't considered adultery? Why did my sister get in a car accident the day after we got into a heated fight and I refused to forgive her? Why must I do good things for God and others when I still get kicked and spit at either way? Why is that the people that hurt me the most are the ones who are supposed to be my Christian brothers and sisters?

Religion does not answer the Why's. I see that now. Religious people try to answer those why's the best they can but their answers are always some vague, Sunday school answer. The most honest answer I have ever got from religion to such questions is "God works in mysterious ways."

What religion does do is that it gives people a purpose. The Why's don't matter as much. Why are we here? Who knows, but religion gives some people a reason to be glad that we are. Unfortunately, for some religious people, particularly Chritian Fundementalist, simply being glad we're her isn't enough. Everyone has to believe as they do or they're absolutely worthless as human being. Even if that person is from the same faith, if their beliefs don't align with every core belief of the majority, even if the majority is WRONG about some things, that person must shape up or shunned from the religious community. I'm tired of shaping up. You know what? I was happier being a Satanist.

Screw this, I'm done. I don't believe in God anymore.

As long as you're happy. :-)

Happiness. That's a bigger myth than a god that gives a damn about me.

[Reflectionist]

Well this thread went weird places. Good thing I dropped out when I did.

I can't believe this but I actually agree with Wolf here. Or at least I see his point. Religion doesn't answer "Why." In fact, I've come to realize through my walks with God, then one thing he isn't keen on is "Why?" Why is homosexuality called a lifestyle sin but remarrying isn't considered adultery? Why did my sister get in a car accident the day after we got into a heated fight and I refused to forgive her? Why must I do good things for God and others when I still get kicked and spit at either way? Why is that the people that hurt me the most are the ones who are supposed to be my Christian brothers and sisters?

Religion does not answer the Why's. I see that now. Religious people try to answer those why's the best they can but their answers are always some vague, Sunday school answer. The most honest answer I have ever got from religion to such questions is "God works in mysterious ways."

What religion does do is that it gives people a purpose. The Why's don't matter as much. Why are we here? Who knows, but religion gives some people a reason to be glad that we are. Unfortunately, for some religious people, particularly Chritian Fundementalist, simply being glad we're her isn't enough. Everyone has to believe as they do or they're absolutely worthless as human being. Even if that person is from the same faith, if their beliefs don't align with every core belief of the majority, even if the majority is WRONG about some things, that person must shape up or shunned from the religious community. I'm tired of shaping up. You know what? I was happier being a Satanist.

Screw this, I'm done. I don't believe in God anymore.

As long as you're happy. :-)

Happiness. That's a bigger myth than a god that gives a damn about me.

Well that's true, I guess. It's pretty hard to come by.

[Wanchimaera]

Well this thread went weird places. Good thing I dropped out when I did.

I can't believe this but I actually agree with Wolf here. Or at least I see his point. Religion doesn't answer "Why." In fact, I've come to realize through my walks with God, then one thing he isn't keen on is "Why?" Why is homosexuality called a lifestyle sin but remarrying isn't considered adultery? Why did my sister get in a car accident the day after we got into a heated fight and I refused to forgive her? Why must I do good things for God and others when I still get kicked and spit at either way? Why is that the people that hurt me the most are the ones who are supposed to be my Christian brothers and sisters?

Religion does not answer the Why's. I see that now. Religious people try to answer those why's the best they can but their answers are always some vague, Sunday school answer. The most honest answer I have ever got from religion to such questions is "God works in mysterious ways."

What religion does do is that it gives people a purpose. The Why's don't matter as much. Why are we here? Who knows, but religion gives some people a reason to be glad that we are. Unfortunately, for some religious people, particularly Chritian Fundementalist, simply being glad we're her isn't enough. Everyone has to believe as they do or they're absolutely worthless as human being. Even if that person is from the same faith, if their beliefs don't align with every core belief of the majority, even if the majority is WRONG about some things, that person must shape up or shunned from the religious community. I'm tired of shaping up. You know what? I was happier being a Satanist.

Screw this, I'm done. I don't believe in God anymore.

I wasn't going to post here until I read this.

Last time I checked, remarriage is adultery unless one spouse is unfaithful. The deal with your sister could be a coincidence, but could be a punishment for unforgiveness. It should be obvious to you why the world hates you for your faith. Where did many of Jesus' persecutors come from? They came from the church.

If you became a Christian so you could be happy here on earth, you did it for the wrong reason. So many people claim that they "got saved" at some church service, when in reality they did it to make them happy, to not go to hell, or to be accepted. It wasn't salvation, but rather an appeal to their own selfishness.

I understand that this post is a bit harsh. This is just what I believe and I don't want this post to be interpreted as a personal attack on anyone, but I felt that it needed to be said.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Erm... SOAP, happiness is a subjective thing. It's what you make of it. Purpose, that is also something you make for yourself. When you became a Christian, you chose a purpose, the one that God supposedly gave you. When you were a Satanist, your purpose had a Satanist bent to it.

Religion should not give people purposes. People should give themselves a purpose, either through choosing religion and choosing to believe that the purpose it suggests is your purpose, or by making one yourself.

And I apologise if I made you unhappy through my debates and disagreements. I merely debated for the sake of debating. If I made you unhappy, I apologise. It was not my intent.

[Goose]

SOAP, you can still belive in God, but you just dont have to like the christian church your in. I dont normally step in on these ones, unless I have a story that seems witty to me that i later cringe at.

If the people who call themselves christian around you, are, well, dicks, then get out of there. Dont let that turn you away from God though. I think I know you well enough to know that you wont let that happen. Just let me say this, You are a child of God., and he loves you. You have dignity and respect as a person and deserve to be treated as such. I treat homosexuality as a sin, same with lying, and adultery and gluttony. I have friends who are gay, they know my stance, but because I love them for who they are, then they dont mind. Just dont lose faith over something so crap.

(End christian preaching, even though he knows SOAP has locked himself out of here anyway.)

Back on topic. I study post modernism, at uni, and I have a lot of liberal atheists as professors. On the question of why? (Why we here etc) I answer as "To glorify God." Why did God create us? For his glory. Why did he give us free will? So we could choose to love him or not. What is hell? Eternity away from God. Why does god let suffering go on? Because he respects our free will. Look at it this way, if God doesn't exist, who is to blame for all the wrongs in the world? Those who did them. Even if God does exist, the blame is still on those that commit the acts of murder and wat not.

Either way, I'll stop the apoligetics.

Christianity and evolution. I dont have an answer. I believe that God created the world, and in Adam and Eve and what not, but I believe in evolution. I belive that God created us in his image, and that Apes were kinda a practice round. What I believe on this issue doesn't really add up to anything out there, and I dont claim to know the facts, other than what the bible teaches. I didn't do science at highschool, I just wrote stories instead.

SOAP, dont give up.

[MikePetersSucks]

At the risk of sounding like an asshole, SOAP, I think you put too much emphasis on religion and/or what other people think of you. There's always going to be rifts, and I think you need to look inside yourself and decide whether to stick with your faith or stick to the people you know. Personally, the people you know sound like dicks the way you describe them, so I don't see why you put so much emotional investment in them. Do what makes you happy. If you're happier being a...I don't know, Satanic Gnostic Buddhi-Taoist Mormon, by all means be one. The only opinion that matters is your own and whatever deity you believe in.

[Picman]

Okay, enlighten me, why did God create everything, and where did God come from? And don't be all preachy about it, give me the abridged version. And I can't read it, because that would require me to actually own a Bible, and I'm not planning to do that any time soon.

My thoughts exactly, Fyxe. However I DO own the Hebrew scriptures, because I have Jewish heritage on my Grandpa's side, and that's what my mother raised me as. However, I was ALWAYS really rebbellious when it came to some issues, such as the Palestinian issue and the "One Male God" theory (I kept that to myself for a while though). And I ALWAYS believed in magic. Also, for a while, I detested such prophets such as Abraham, for vandalism. But now, I realize that they were not SO bad. Backing up to the evolution debate, I must say that I believe in either a sort of middle ground or Evolutionism altogether. However, I do believe in Intelligient Design, which may sound like an oxymoron, but it is not. I take support for my position from a book called "The Weird 100" by Stephen Spignesi. He quotes Wernher von Braun, Director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center from 1960 to 1976. Here is my version of his comments: "To be forced to believe only one conclusion-that everything in the universe happened by chance-would violate the very objectivity of science itself. Certainly there are those who argue that the universe evolved out of a random process, but what random process could produce the brain of a man or the system of the human eye... [Some] challenge science to prove the existence of God. But must we really light a candle to see the sun?" I do disagree with some things he said such as: I believe in an INFINITE amount of realities, I believe that ALL life is wonderful (not sure if he denied that though), and they have a lot of the things we have such as: spirituality and folklore. (No, really, I am an Anthropomorphist in some senses). I am a Polytheist and a Pantheist, meaning I believe in many, MANY deities, and I believe in near absolute animism and I believe in ALL pantheons.

[JRPomazon]

I think that Evolution and Religion can coexist together. How you may ask? MICRO-Evolution. You know, the evolution of living beings on the microscopic level. According to Christianity, Adam and Eve had sinned against God and were cast out of the garden of Eden. Now, since Eden was perfect in every single way, Adam and Eve's habitat was safe for them to live in. Now, they leave the perfect bubble of safety and survival and find themselves in the rest of the world which is far from perfect. But surely God had not forsaken his creations COMPLETELY. You see, perhaps over time, the human body has had to adapt to surroundings that are less than perfect (These imperfections can be anything from infertile land or hungry predators). So, the inner workings of the human body were constantly changing itself to better the whole, like gaining immunities to certain diseases or possibly having the body grow more in size. I know my argument is far from perfect, but I truly believe that religion and evolution can coexist.

[MikePetersSucks]

I am a Polytheist and a Pantheist, meaning I believe in many, MANY deities, and I believe in near absolute animism and I believe in ALL pantheons.

Doesn't pantheism, however, imply that everything is just one divine Monad?

I think that Evolution and Religion can coexist together. How you may ask? MICRO-Evolution. You know, the evolution of living beings on the microscopic level. According to Christianity, Adam and Eve had sinned against God and were cast out of the garden of Eden. Now, since Eden was perfect in every single way, Adam and Eve's habitat was safe for them to live in. Now, they leave the perfect bubble of safety and survival and find themselves in the rest of the world which is far from perfect. But surely God had not forsaken his creations COMPLETELY. You see, perhaps over time, the human body has had to adapt to surroundings that are less than perfect (These imperfections can be anything from infertile land or hungry predators). So, the inner workings of the human body were constantly changing itself to better the whole, like gaining immunities to certain diseases or possibly having the body grow more in size. I know my argument is far from perfect, but I truly believe that religion and evolution can coexist.

Unfortunately, Macro-Evolution has already been observed, and without Macro-Evolution, Biology doesn't work.

[Picman]

I am a Polytheist and a Pantheist, meaning I believe in many, MANY deities, and I believe in near absolute animism and I believe in ALL pantheons.

Doesn't pantheism, however, imply that everything is just one divine Monad?

I think that Evolution and Religion can coexist together. How you may ask? MICRO-Evolution. You know, the evolution of living beings on the microscopic level. According to Christianity, Adam and Eve had sinned against God and were cast out of the garden of Eden. Now, since Eden was perfect in every single way, Adam and Eve's habitat was safe for them to live in. Now, they leave the perfect bubble of safety and survival and find themselves in the rest of the world which is far from perfect. But surely God had not forsaken his creations COMPLETELY. You see, perhaps over time, the human body has had to adapt to surroundings that are less than perfect (These imperfections can be anything from infertile land or hungry predators). So, the inner workings of the human body were constantly changing itself to better the whole, like gaining immunities to certain diseases or possibly having the body grow more in size. I know my argument is far from perfect, but I truly believe that religion and evolution can coexist.

Unfortunately, Macro-Evolution has already been observed, and without Macro-Evolution, Biology doesn't work.

Actually MikePetersSucks, I am a Pantheist in the sense that I believe in animism (i.e. "God" is in everything, no matter what it is), and I believe in ALL pantheons from ALL cultures! I believe that ANYTHING imaginable has always existed, and will continue to exist. (Unfortunetaly, that DOES include things I would rather NOT believe in, but I would just do my best to IGNORE those realities, if I could help it)! I am a polytheist in that I believe in many deities (actually, infinite)! I believe, (I know that I'm getting back to Zelda, but bear with me, please, this actually DOES have something to do with the topic at hand), that Link could be half Kokiri in one reality, full Hylian in one reality, but be destined to gain eternal youth AFTER being sent back in time, one in which he dies of old age, (I would'nt travel to THAT reality very often, if I could help it), one in which (this might go along nicely with either one of my "has eternal youth" ideas) there is ONE Link for all of the games in the child timeline... well you get the idea. And what is "Maro-Evolution"?

[MikePetersSucks]

Actually MikePetersSucks, I am a Pantheist in the sense that I believe in animism (i.e. "God" is in everything, no matter what it is), and I believe in ALL pantheons from ALL cultures! I believe that ANYTHING imaginable has always existed, and will continue to exist. (Unfortunetaly, that DOES include things I would rather NOT believe in, but I would just do my best to IGNORE those realities, if I could help it)! I am a polytheist in that I believe in many deities (actually, infinite)!

Alright, but that's not Pantheism. Pantheism is, basically, that the universe itself is a single deity. Animism is the word. Please stick to it.

I believe, (I know that I'm getting back to Zelda, but bear with me, please, this actually DOES have something to do with the topic at hand), that Link could be half Kokiri in one reality, full Hylian in one reality, but be destined to gain eternal youth AFTER being sent back in time, one in which he dies of old age, (I would'nt travel to THAT reality very often, if I could help it), one in which (this might go along nicely with either one of my "has eternal youth" ideas) there is ONE Link for all of the games in the child timeline... well you get the idea.

...you actually believe Zelda is real in some alternate universe? Wow.

And what is "Maro-Evolution"?

Macroevolution refers to evolution that occurs at or above the level of species, in contrast with microevolution, which refers to smaller evolutionary changes (typically described as changes in allele frequencies) within a species or population.

[Picman]

Actually MikePetersSucks, I am a Pantheist in the sense that I believe in animism (i.e. "God" is in everything, no matter what it is), and I believe in ALL pantheons from ALL cultures! I believe that ANYTHING imaginable has always existed, and will continue to exist. (Unfortunetaly, that DOES include things I would rather NOT believe in, but I would just do my best to IGNORE those realities, if I could help it)! I am a polytheist in that I believe in many deities (actually, infinite)!

Alright, but that's not Pantheism. Pantheism is, basically, that the universe itself is a single deity. Animism is the word. Please stick to it.

I believe, (I know that I'm getting back to Zelda, but bear with me, please, this actually DOES have something to do with the topic at hand), that Link could be half Kokiri in one reality, full Hylian in one reality, but be destined to gain eternal youth AFTER being sent back in time, one in which he dies of old age, (I would'nt travel to THAT reality very often, if I could help it), one in which (this might go along nicely with either one of my "has eternal youth" ideas) there is ONE Link for all of the games in the child timeline... well you get the idea.

...you actually believe Zelda is real in some alternate universe? Wow.

And what is "Maro-Evolution"?

Macroevolution refers to evolution that occurs at or above the level of species, in contrast with microevolution, which refers to smaller evolutionary changes (typically described as changes in allele frequencies) within a species or population.

Okay, you're right: I'm sorry, I am an animist. But I wonder what you call someone who believes in ALL pantheons? Polytheists believe in MANY gods, right? Well, I go further! And, yes I believe that if something can be imagined, it exists. Do'nt laugh at me for that, please. Thank you for the information on Macroevolution, MikePetersSucks.

[MikePetersSucks]

Okay, you're right: I'm sorry, I am an animist. But I wonder what you call someone who believes in ALL pantheons? Polytheists believe in MANY gods, right? Well, I go further! And, yes I believe that if something can be imagined, it exists. Do'nt laugh at me for that, please.

I'm not gonna laugh at you. But as someone who used to believe in the same thing and outgrew it on the basis of how silly it was, I'm not gonna take your beliefs very seriously.

[SOAP]

Okay, you're right: I'm sorry, I am an animist. But I wonder what you call someone who believes in ALL pantheons? Polytheists believe in MANY gods, right?

The closest I could find is henotheism. The worship of one god while accepting the existence of others that may or may not be worthy of praise. Though I don't think it quite accurately describes you. Let me ask you something. You say you believe in ALL patheons. Do you actually worship them all or do you simply think they exist, because I find the former somehow impossible iunless you worship them collectively as one being.

Oh well. I contend we all make up our own personal gods anyways and only fool ourselves into thinking we worship the same god(s) as another person when it's convenient. When it's not convenient, it's funny how easy it is to say that person is worshipping a false god.

[Picman]

Okay, you're right: I'm sorry, I am an animist. But I wonder what you call someone who believes in ALL pantheons? Polytheists believe in MANY gods, right?

The closest I could find is henotheism. The worship of one god while accepting the existence of others that may or may not be worthy of praise. Though I don't think it quite accurately describes you. Let me ask you something. You say you believe in ALL patheons. Do you actually worship them all or do you simply think they exist, because I find the former somehow impossible unless you worship them collectively as one being.

Oh well. I contend we all make up our own personal gods anyways and only fool ourselves into thinking we worship the same god(s) as another person when it's convenient. When it's not convenient, it's funny how easy it is to say that person is worshipping a false god.

I recognize their existence. And yes, the whole "worship all pantheons" idea WOULD be almost impossible, unless you were going to worship them equally but for different areas of your life. Oh, and you put an "i" in "unless". Just wanted to correct your grammar (not that I do'nt make those mistakes too: I just want to be as correct as possible). Of course, one COULD accept the notion that the deities have expressed themselves in many aspects, and that, essentially, ALL pantheons DO exist! On the other hand maybe we should accept the Hindu concept of many universes, with their own deities, and those deities are found in mythoses from Earth and elsewhere. And I, as hard as it might be to digest this, believe in a combanation of one, more or even ALL (if that is possible) those explanations! Maybe, the multiple-universes=multiple-pantheons will help with these questions!

[MikePetersSucks]

Or they just not all exist, because I doubt Ra really is the sun.