162 replies to this topic

[SOAP]

Okay, you're right: I'm sorry, I am an animist. But I wonder what you call someone who believes in ALL pantheons? Polytheists believe in MANY gods, right?

The closest I could find is henotheism. The worship of one god while accepting the existence of others that may or may not be worthy of praise. Though I don't think it quite accurately describes you. Let me ask you something. You say you believe in ALL patheons. Do you actually worship them all or do you simply think they exist, because I find the former somehow impossible unless you worship them collectively as one being.

Oh well. I contend we all make up our own personal gods anyways and only fool ourselves into thinking we worship the same god(s) as another person when it's convenient. When it's not convenient, it's funny how easy it is to say that person is worshipping a false god.

I recognize their existence. And yes, the whole "worship all pantheons" idea WOULD be almost impossible, unless you were going to worship them equally but for different areas of your life. Oh, and you put an "i" in "unless". Just wanted to correct your grammar (not that I do'nt make those mistakes too: I just want to be as correct as possible). Of course, one COULD accept the notion that the deities have expressed themselves in many aspects, and that, essentially, ALL pantheons DO exist! On the other hand maybe we should accept the Hindu concept of many universes, with their own deities, and those deities are found in mythoses from Earth and elsewhere. And I, as hard as it might be to digest this, believe in a combanation of one, more or even ALL (if that is possible) those explanations! Maybe, the multiple-universes=multiple-pantheons will help with these questions!

The only way I can see that working is some form of monolatry where you periodically single out a god to worship exclusively depending on the situation. Still I think some gods wouldn't be too please having to share your devotion with other gods, especially from a totally different patheon. And if you believe ALL Gods exists and worship them all, then you must assume the God of the Abrahamic Faiths exists and he definitely doesn't like other gods getting any praise besides him. I don't know but it just seems you're worshipping all the patheons as a novelty or just to cover all your bases should some of them actually turn out to exist. It's your thing though. It's just not the least bit impressive.

And besides I doubt all gods deserve any worship even if they did exists. The problem I have with pagan religions is that their gods still retain human flaws, like selfishness and unrestrainedness, that only get intensified by their superhuman powers. In most cases they're just spoiled, bratty superhumans with special powers and limited immortality. Very rarely does any pantheon have gods that are worthy of any praise. Even though I don't believe the Abrahamic God exists, so far he's the only god that I've found that genuinely has mankind's best interest in mind. Very few pagan gods come anywhere close. It just seems to me people in this age turn to paganism because they feel gypped by monotheism and look for more obscure gods that are a little more down to their human level.

[Picman]

Okay, you're right: I'm sorry, I am an animist. But I wonder what you call someone who believes in ALL pantheons? Polytheists believe in MANY gods, right?

The closest I could find is henotheism. The worship of one god while accepting the existence of others that may or may not be worthy of praise. Though I don't think it quite accurately describes you. Let me ask you something. You say you believe in ALL patheons. Do you actually worship them all or do you simply think they exist, because I find the former somehow impossible unless you worship them collectively as one being.

Oh well. I contend we all make up our own personal gods anyways and only fool ourselves into thinking we worship the same god(s) as another person when it's convenient. When it's not convenient, it's funny how easy it is to say that person is worshipping a false god.

I recognize their existence. And yes, the whole "worship all pantheons" idea WOULD be almost impossible, unless you were going to worship them equally but for different areas of your life. Oh, and you put an "i" in "unless". Just wanted to correct your grammar (not that I do'nt make those mistakes too: I just want to be as correct as possible). Of course, one COULD accept the notion that the deities have expressed themselves in many aspects, and that, essentially, ALL pantheons DO exist! On the other hand maybe we should accept the Hindu concept of many universes, with their own deities, and those deities are found in mythoses from Earth and elsewhere. And I, as hard as it might be to digest this, believe in a combanation of one, more or even ALL (if that is possible) those explanations! Maybe, the multiple-universes=multiple-pantheons will help with these questions!

The only way I can see that working is some form of monolatry where you periodically single out a god to worship exclusively depending on the situation. Still I think some gods wouldn't be too please having to share your devotion with other gods, especially from a totally different patheon. And if you believe ALL Gods exists and worship them all, then you must assume the God of the Abrahamic Faiths exists and he definitely doesn't like other gods getting any praise besides him. I don't know but it just seems you're worshipping all the patheons as a novelty or just to cover all your bases should some of them actually turn out to exist. It's your thing though. It's just not the least bit impressive.

And besides I doubt all gods deserve any worship even if they did exists. The problem I have with pagan religions is that their gods still retain human flaws, like selfishness and unrestrainedness, that only get intensified by their superhuman powers. In most cases they're just spoiled, bratty superhumans with special powers and limited immortality. Very rarely does any pantheon have gods that are worthy of any praise. Even though I don't believe the Abrahamic God exists, so far he's the only god that I've found that genuinely has mankind's best interest in mind. Very few pagan gods come anywhere close. It just seems to me people in this age turn to paganism because they feel gypped by monotheism and look for more obscure gods that are a little more down to their human level.

Not all cultures have as many, or any at all of those haughty deities. My personal choices for pantheons do'nt have a lot of Classical Greek and Roman influences, although they DO have some. Some of my favorite myths DO come from Greek and Roman mythologies, for instance: Selene and Endymion, and I like the goddess of hearth, Hestia/Vesta. And I'm also fond of Thracian mythology, such as Hecate, who was origanally a foreign goddess, from either Thrace, Anatolia, or even remotely possible, (however unlikely, as the only evidence to support this proposal is the name simmilarity), the Egyptian midwifery, magic and frog goddess Hekt. However, most of my choices for deities to worship do NOT come from Classical sources, where the Goddesses and Gods are vain and haughty: Most of my favorite deities come from Celtic, Germanic, (I wo'nt even bother with Norse, seeing as that is just a sub-category of Germanic, anyways) Slavic, Baltic, (yes, I know those two are rarities, but... I find them enjoyable) Siberian, Korean, Japanese and finally Iriqouis, Native American, because I have Iriqouis blood on my Grandmother's side. Oh, and I like Jewish mythology (and yes, I admit that it IS mythology even though I was raised Jewish, and still believe in the Jewish mystical practices). Those are but a few of my interests in this field. Oh and by the way, I disagree that Yahweh/Jehovah/God/Allah has a deep concern for humanity. He would strike you down for simply not believing in him as the ONLY one true God. I do'nt think he has much concern for us AT ALL! At least, not the way SOME people portray him as being.

[SOAP]

Okay, you're right: I'm sorry, I am an animist. But I wonder what you call someone who believes in ALL pantheons? Polytheists believe in MANY gods, right?

The closest I could find is henotheism. The worship of one god while accepting the existence of others that may or may not be worthy of praise. Though I don't think it quite accurately describes you. Let me ask you something. You say you believe in ALL patheons. Do you actually worship them all or do you simply think they exist, because I find the former somehow impossible unless you worship them collectively as one being.

Oh well. I contend we all make up our own personal gods anyways and only fool ourselves into thinking we worship the same god(s) as another person when it's convenient. When it's not convenient, it's funny how easy it is to say that person is worshipping a false god.

I recognize their existence. And yes, the whole "worship all pantheons" idea WOULD be almost impossible, unless you were going to worship them equally but for different areas of your life. Oh, and you put an "i" in "unless". Just wanted to correct your grammar (not that I do'nt make those mistakes too: I just want to be as correct as possible). Of course, one COULD accept the notion that the deities have expressed themselves in many aspects, and that, essentially, ALL pantheons DO exist! On the other hand maybe we should accept the Hindu concept of many universes, with their own deities, and those deities are found in mythoses from Earth and elsewhere. And I, as hard as it might be to digest this, believe in a combanation of one, more or even ALL (if that is possible) those explanations! Maybe, the multiple-universes=multiple-pantheons will help with these questions!

The only way I can see that working is some form of monolatry where you periodically single out a god to worship exclusively depending on the situation. Still I think some gods wouldn't be too please having to share your devotion with other gods, especially from a totally different patheon. And if you believe ALL Gods exists and worship them all, then you must assume the God of the Abrahamic Faiths exists and he definitely doesn't like other gods getting any praise besides him. I don't know but it just seems you're worshipping all the patheons as a novelty or just to cover all your bases should some of them actually turn out to exist. It's your thing though. It's just not the least bit impressive.

And besides I doubt all gods deserve any worship even if they did exists. The problem I have with pagan religions is that their gods still retain human flaws, like selfishness and unrestrainedness, that only get intensified by their superhuman powers. In most cases they're just spoiled, bratty superhumans with special powers and limited immortality. Very rarely does any pantheon have gods that are worthy of any praise. Even though I don't believe the Abrahamic God exists, so far he's the only god that I've found that genuinely has mankind's best interest in mind. Very few pagan gods come anywhere close. It just seems to me people in this age turn to paganism because they feel gypped by monotheism and look for more obscure gods that are a little more down to their human level.

Not all cultures have as many, or any at all of those haughty deities. My personal choices for pantheons do'nt have a lot of Classical Greek and Roman influences, although they DO have some. Some of my favorite myths DO come from Greek and Roman mythologies, for instance: Selene and Endymion, and I like the goddess of hearth, Hestia/Vesta. And I'm also fond of Thracian mythology, such as Hecate, who was origanally a foreign goddess, from either Thrace, Anatolia, or even remotely possible, (however unlikely, as the only evidence to support this proposal is the name simmilarity), the Egyptian midwifery, magic and frog goddess Hekt. However, most of my choices for deities to worship do NOT come from Classical sources, where the Goddesses and Gods are vain and haughty: Most of my favorite deities come from Celtic, Germanic, (I wo'nt even bother with Norse, seeing as that is just a sub-category of Germanic, anyways) Slavic, Baltic, (yes, I know those two are rarities, but... I find them enjoyable) Siberian, Korean, Japanese and finally Iriqouis, Native American, because I have Iriqouis blood on my Grandmother's side. Oh, and I like Jewish mythology (and yes, I admit that it IS mythology even though I was raised Jewish, and still believe in the Jewish mystical practices). Those are but a few of my interests in this field. Oh and by the way, I disagree that Yahweh/Jehovah/God/Allah has a deep concern for humanity. He would strike you down for simply not believing in him as the ONLY one true God. I do'nt think he has much concern for us AT ALL! At least, not the way SOME people portray him as being.

Which goes back to my point that you simply can't and shouldn't worship every god of every pantheon. There's way too many and some of them just don't deserve it, like the Classical Greek Gods. But then again it's your decision. I can understand studying mythology as a hobby and picking different gods from different pantheons to indentify with. I too have a liking for mythology though my knowlege of pantheons is no where near Lena's. And sometimes I identify with Athena and Hestia because wisdom and humility are too things I value (though not necessarily a master at XD) and Amaterasu from the Shinto religion has recently peeked my interest. But I would never worship any of these gods, especially not together. But then again, I'm an atheist so of course I wouldn't. I don't know. Paganism just turns me off more than monotheism. Maybe it has to do with [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of pagans I know being weird Gothic kids who worship Hecate or some other vague witch goddess.

[Selena]

However, most of my choices for deities to worship do NOT come from Classical sources, where the Goddesses and Gods are vain and haughty.

I hope you don't think gods and goddesses from the other pantheons aren't subject to the very same vanity that the Greek ones have. Many old world deities from all over the planet were vain and haughty almost by default. I can name plenty, many of which predate the Classical myths. They weren't like God, who is the perfect and ultimate being. The gods back then were meant to represent every aspect of humanity - positive and negative. Man was more accurately molded in the image of those gods because they were all flawed in some way. There are very few 'perfect' and innocent gods in the old world. Probably because nothing in life is perfect. Ancient gods have been very imperfect since the first recorded myths (Sumerian). So no, it's not Greco-Roman mythology alone that has vanity and haughtiness plaguing deities. All of them do.

If you think otherwise, that's rather worrisome.

(I wo'nt even bother with Norse, seeing as that is just a sub-category of Germanic, anyways)

This statement sends up warning signs about your background knowledge about pagan gods too, as anyone who knows a decent amount about either can clearly point out how different their flavors are. Why you would outright ignore the more detailed and extensive one in lieu of the other is beyond me. It's not like Greek myths versus Roman ones, where only the names change. Norse and old Germanic myths have their own unique gods and tales that are separate from each other.


I also find it a bit odd that you worship every god ever when a great deal of them represent the same exact things. Freyja and Ishtar, from Norse and Sumerian respectively, are both the goddesses of war and lust. Enlil and Zeus both govern the air and started a flood that destroyed old humanity. Ereshkigal and Hel are both queens of the dead. The list goes on and on.

Which goes back to my point that you simply can't and shouldn't worship every god of every pantheon. There's way too many and some of them just don't deserve it, like the Classical Greek Gods.

I think the main thing when worshiping pagan gods is that unlike the Judeo-Christian god, who is supreme and above all, is that the old deities are like 'specialists.' If you need help with some intellectual dilemma, a test or whatever, you turn to gods like Enki or Athena. When faced with physical confrontation, you need Thor or Ishtar on your side. Problems with love? Ask drama queen Aphrodite. She likes those things. Pushing out a baby? Childbirth goddesses Ninhursag and Hera at your service.

You basically have an arsenal of divine people to help you out with stuff. And while all may have their individual problems, they're still very good at what they specialize in. Old religions aren't necessarily about bettering yourself and aspiring to be something pure. While they all adhere to personal honor and respect, they are more direct with the real world and its imperfections. In a way, the imperfections in deities makes them more down to earth and easier to call upon. Less difficult to ask a 'buddy' for help than to call on a supreme and perfect being.

The only real modern western equivalent to that is in Catholicism, where you have saints representing various aspects of life. I only know of a few, as my mother is Catholic. Like Saint Francis, who is the patron saint of animals. There's a saint for children, for... just about anything, really. There's a lot of them. Some apocryphal texts removed from holy doctrine by the church were about the angels - Uriel, Metatron and the rest. Uriel represented wisdom. Michael represented courage and strength. Raphael was artistic. The texts were apparently removed because people started to pray to the angels for help more than they prayed to God.

[Picman]

However, most of my choices for deities to worship do NOT come from Classical sources, where the Goddesses and Gods are vain and haughty.

I hope you don't think gods and goddesses from the other pantheons aren't subject to the very same vanity that the Greek ones have. Many old world deities from all over the planet were vain and haughty almost by default. I can name plenty, many of which predate the Classical myths. They weren't like God, who is the perfect and ultimate being. The gods back then were meant to represent every aspect of humanity - positive and negative. Man was more accurately molded in the image of those gods because they were all flawed in some way. There are very few 'perfect' and innocent gods in the old world. Probably because nothing in life is perfect. Ancient gods have been very imperfect since the first recorded myths (Sumerian). So no, it's not Greco-Roman mythology alone that has vanity and haughtiness plaguing deities. All of them do.

If you think otherwise, that's rather worrisome.

(I wo'nt even bother with Norse, seeing as that is just a sub-category of Germanic, anyways)

This statement sends up warning signs about your background knowledge about pagan gods too, as anyone who knows a decent amount about either can clearly point out how different their flavors are. Why you would outright ignore the more detailed and extensive one in lieu of the other is beyond me. It's not like Greek myths versus Roman ones, where only the names change. Norse and old Germanic myths have their own unique gods and tales that are separate from each other.


I also find it a bit odd that you worship every god ever when a great deal of them represent the same exact things. Freyja and Ishtar, from Norse and Sumerian respectively, are both the goddesses of war and lust. Enlil and Zeus both govern the air and started a flood that destroyed old humanity. Ereshkigal and Hel are both queens of the dead. The list goes on and on.

Which goes back to my point that you simply can't and shouldn't worship every god of every pantheon. There's way too many and some of them just don't deserve it, like the Classical Greek Gods.

I think the main thing when worshiping pagan gods is that unlike the Judeo-Christian god, who is supreme and above all, is that the old deities are like 'specialists.' If you need help with some intellectual dilemma, a test or whatever, you turn to gods like Enki or Athena. When faced with physical confrontation, you need Thor or Ishtar on your side. Problems with love? Ask drama queen Aphrodite. She likes those things. Pushing out a baby? Childbirth goddesses Ninhursag and Hera at your service.

You basically have an arsenal of divine people to help you out with stuff. And while all may have their individual problems, they're still very good at what they specialize in. Old religions aren't necessarily about bettering yourself and aspiring to be something pure. While they all adhere to personal honor and respect, they are more direct with the real world and its imperfections. In a way, the imperfections in deities makes them more down to earth and easier to call upon. Less difficult to ask a 'buddy' for help than to call on a supreme and perfect being.

The only real modern western equivalent to that is in Catholicism, where you have saints representing various aspects of life. I only know of a few, as my mother is Catholic. Like Saint Francis, who is the patron saint of animals. There's a saint for children, for... just about anything, really. There's a lot of them. Some apocryphal texts removed from holy doctrine by the church were about the angels - Uriel, Metatron and the rest. Uriel represented wisdom. Michael represented courage and strength. Raphael was artistic. The texts were apparently removed because people started to pray to the angels for help more than they prayed to God.

Well, Greek and Roman deities seem to be the cream of the crop when it comes to snobbishness and arrogance! About the only deities from the Hellenized culture(s) I like are deities dealing in these domains: Moon, Dying Gods, dreams, cthonic deities, and sleep. I might have a few others, but these just about cover it for these pantheons. Other pantheons tend NOT to be as arrogant, Selena: that's just how I see it! No offense. Oh and by the way, that just talks about LATER Classical mythology: I am almost positive that earlier Agean myths were not quite as bad! And I also like Thracian mythology: we do'nt know much about them, so there goddesses and gods could turn out to be quite different! I also like Far Eastern mythology such as Korean, Japanese, Ainu, Siberian and Chinese. I also LOVE Native American mythology, being part Onandaga Iriqouis, myself. Oh and by the way, Catholics are NOT the only Christians to worship celestial beings: so do Eastern Orthodox and the Copts, from Egypt and Ethiopia. And other religions do as well, such as esoteric Judaism and Islam. And I sort of forgot to mention: I have a slightly more lenient approach with the Italic versions of the Olympians, because they seem to me to be less lusty.

Edited by Picman, 17 August 2007 - 07:27 PM.

[Selena]

...My head hurts. Apologies for the mess of quotes, but I think they need to be addressed one by one to hammer the points home. Holy frijoles.

Well, Greek and Roman deities seem to be the cream of the crop when it comes to snobbishness and arrogance!

No. They're just the most popular and well known deities. Which automatically makes them seem like the worst offenders. Trust me, they have plenty of rivals.

Other pantheons tend NOT to be as arrogant, Selena: that's just how I see it! No offense.

Then you would be very wrong. That sounds pretty much like someone who hasn't properly researched deities from regions outside of Greece. Warning signs.

Oh and by the way, that just talks about LATER Classical mythology: I am almost positive that earlier Agean myths were not quite as bad!

Perhaps that's because earlier Aegean beliefs are not Classical Greek mythology. There is Classical mythology. There is Mycenaean mythology. There is Minoan mythology. Only the popular and well known stuff is 'Classical.' You are almost positive the other two are not as bad? That's funny, because there's practically no information on them because the ancient Greeks were orators and seldom wrote legends down until later on. We know Mycenaeans worshiped some of the same gods - Poseidon and the like - while still having some of their own. Many Classical myths stem from Mycenaean ones. Theseus and the Labyrinth, for example. Minoans almost exclusively worshiped goddesses. We know very little about them. So it's a wonder how you automatically assume they were 'better' when they're still obscure. And again, neither of the older civilizations were considered Classical!

Also, countries were only 'Hellenized' after Alexander the Great invaded them. That's Hellenistic Greece. And came after the Classical period. History books are your friend. Hell, Wikipedia is your friend. Wiki has all the time periods for Ancient Greece listed in a nice, clear order. And you know what, the belief systems are included in the overviews. The internet is fun.

And I also like Thracian mythology: we do'nt know much about them, so there goddesses and gods could turn out to be quite different!

Not knowing anything about a pantheon does not make their gods any less arrogant. You can't say either way because you don't know. Your logic is bizarre.

I have a slightly more lenient approach with the Italic versions of the Olympians, because they seem to me to be less lusty.

No.

[Steel Samurai]

Warning to all LA posters. Do not argue with Lena about Mythology. Ever. You will have your ass and every single deity associated with it handed to you on an ambrosia platter. Which would actually be kind've interesting, since ambrosia's a food.

On topic: To me, it seems like the amount of similarities between different pantheons would make one think that either a) There's really only one set, and each of the different regions involved simply gave them different names, or B) they all pretty much just developed from ancient heroes or whatever it is the anthropologists say these days. I personally question why, even if they were real, one would wish to worship deities which are subject to all the same human frailties humans are, aside from fear of wrath from above. For example, why worship a goddess of love who seems to be far more concerned with casual sex, seducing new boy-toys, or fighting with other goddesses over them than actual love, which, at least according to my definition, should be pure, if not chaste then able to survive without sex, and long lasting. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't think of one goddess of "love" who didn't sleep around.

[MikePetersSucks]

You forgot option C), Collective Unconscious.

[SOAP]

However, most of my choices for deities to worship do NOT come from Classical sources, where the Goddesses and Gods are vain and haughty.

I hope you don't think gods and goddesses from the other pantheons aren't subject to the very same vanity that the Greek ones have. Many old world deities from all over the planet were vain and haughty almost by default. I can name plenty, many of which predate the Classical myths. They weren't like God, who is the perfect and ultimate being. The gods back then were meant to represent every aspect of humanity - positive and negative. Man was more accurately molded in the image of those gods because they were all flawed in some way. There are very few 'perfect' and innocent gods in the old world. Probably because nothing in life is perfect. Ancient gods have been very imperfect since the first recorded myths (Sumerian). So no, it's not Greco-Roman mythology alone that has vanity and haughtiness plaguing deities. All of them do.

If you think otherwise, that's rather worrisome.

(I wo'nt even bother with Norse, seeing as that is just a sub-category of Germanic, anyways)

This statement sends up warning signs about your background knowledge about pagan gods too, as anyone who knows a decent amount about either can clearly point out how different their flavors are. Why you would outright ignore the more detailed and extensive one in lieu of the other is beyond me. It's not like Greek myths versus Roman ones, where only the names change. Norse and old Germanic myths have their own unique gods and tales that are separate from each other.


I also find it a bit odd that you worship every god ever when a great deal of them represent the same exact things. Freyja and Ishtar, from Norse and Sumerian respectively, are both the goddesses of war and lust. Enlil and Zeus both govern the air and started a flood that destroyed old humanity. Ereshkigal and Hel are both queens of the dead. The list goes on and on.

Which goes back to my point that you simply can't and shouldn't worship every god of every pantheon. There's way too many and some of them just don't deserve it, like the Classical Greek Gods.

I think the main thing when worshiping pagan gods is that unlike the Judeo-Christian god, who is supreme and above all, is that the old deities are like 'specialists.' If you need help with some intellectual dilemma, a test or whatever, you turn to gods like Enki or Athena. When faced with physical confrontation, you need Thor or Ishtar on your side. Problems with love? Ask drama queen Aphrodite. She likes those things. Pushing out a baby? Childbirth goddesses Ninhursag and Hera at your service.

You basically have an arsenal of divine people to help you out with stuff. And while all may have their individual problems, they're still very good at what they specialize in. Old religions aren't necessarily about bettering yourself and aspiring to be something pure. While they all adhere to personal honor and respect, they are more direct with the real world and its imperfections. In a way, the imperfections in deities makes them more down to earth and easier to call upon. Less difficult to ask a 'buddy' for help than to call on a supreme and perfect being.

The only real modern western equivalent to that is in Catholicism, where you have saints representing various aspects of life. I only know of a few, as my mother is Catholic. Like Saint Francis, who is the patron saint of animals. There's a saint for children, for... just about anything, really. There's a lot of them. Some apocryphal texts removed from holy doctrine by the church were about the angels - Uriel, Metatron and the rest. Uriel represented wisdom. Michael represented courage and strength. Raphael was artistic. The texts were apparently removed because people started to pray to the angels for help more than they prayed to God.

I guess looking at them as specialists makes sense. But if you're looking for something more down to earth and relateble, someone that's more of a personal 'buddy' than a supreme omnipotent God, then why not turn to an actual human being, who's like actually... ya know, there. And nothing something that was worshipped by cultures who either live really far away or really long ago and no longer exist. That's the main gripe I have with paganism. At least with Monotheism, in most cases, you're turning to something much higher than us humans for things that are beyond our human control. But with Pagan religion, it just seems, to me, they turn to their gods for stuff that they can just go an actual person to. And to me, it also seems they do it because they reject humans but also reject Western religious concepts of one true god, so they turn to obscure foreign stuff. It's like people who used to Catholic but get disillusioned and start experimenting with Buddhism or Islam just because it's trendy and exotic. To me, I find that offensive and disrespectful towards the people who actually lived in those cultures and time periods and genuinely did believe in those gods. I don't know. I don't believe people can build their own horizons and don't I like it when Western people experiment with other people's religions like it's some recreational drug.

In Picman's case I can understand his belief in native American deities but not every single damn pantheon under the sun. He even goes as afr as to claim he believes in gods in realities we don't even know about. That just smacks of someone who either has no real human friends to turn to or has no respect for other people's beliefs. People who actually dedicated to their pantheon and not just worshiping all of them just because.

Edited by SOAP, 22 August 2007 - 12:55 PM.

[Hero of Slime]

It's like people who used to Catholic but get disillusioned and start experimenting with Buddhism or Islam

The people in your example and Picman I would just classify as agnostic. They believe in all these different gods because they are unsure as to what the true God is.

Edited by The Zol, 22 August 2007 - 03:43 PM.

[SOAP]

I guess. One disillision Catholic I knew personally once told me that he didn't believe there a god per se, but more of a whole collective of higher beings who for many milenia were at constant debate with each other on what to do with us humans. There was no clear leader among them, all these beings pretty had the same authority but they couldn't come to a unanimous decision about anything so according to my friend, they created Jesus so they could, for a time, inhabit one body and have one mind, which then They, now being Him, finally realized the best course of action was to sacrifice himself for the good the humans, rather than destroy them, or force perfection on them.

It sounded weird and out there, to me but it was interesting. I just didn't remember that until you said that. He wasn't part of the example I was using. I was referring more to [img]http://forums.legendsalliance.com/public/ALOT.png[/img] of the Hollywood/Celebrity types. Still it's one thing to believe the possibility that there isn't one true God but plethora of gods. It's another to worship every god ever conceived all existed. I don;t know but it just sounds like covering all your basis in case a couple of them might actually exist. I'm open to simply accepting the possibility of the existence of all gods of all pantheons but worshipping them all is a bit far.

[wisp]

In Picman's case I can understand his belief in native American deities but not every single damn pantheon under the sun. He even goes as afr as to claim he believes in gods in realities we don't even know about. That just smacks of someone who either has no real human friends to turn to or has no respect for other people's beliefs. People who actually dedicated to their pantheon and not just worshiping all of them just because.

I can't speak for anyone here, but I know that lots of pagans often pray to gods from different pantheons - this is because they (well, the ones I know, anyhow) really only believe in a god and a goddess which are male and female halves of the same divine body - but the different gods they pray to represent different aspects of the god and goddess. It's not all about disrespect - some people just believe differently than others and I don't think it's our place to tell them they are being disrespectful if that is not their intent.

[SOAP]

In Picman's case I can understand his belief in native American deities but not every single damn pantheon under the sun. He even goes as afr as to claim he believes in gods in realities we don't even know about. That just smacks of someone who either has no real human friends to turn to or has no respect for other people's beliefs. People who actually dedicated to their pantheon and not just worshiping all of them just because.

I can't speak for anyone here, but I know that lots of pagans often pray to gods from different pantheons - this is because they (well, the ones I know, anyhow) really only believe in a god and a goddess which are male and female halves of the same divine body - but the different gods they pray to represent different aspects of the god and goddess. It's not all about disrespect - some people just believe differently than others and I don't think it's our place to tell them they are being disrespectful if that is not their intent.

That sounds a lot like Wiccanism, which is something more specific. That I don't have that much beef with. It also sounds like gnostism wh to me where all gods are really emanations of the same one true god and reflect fragments of his/her personality.

That's why I don't like using the term Pagan. It very wide term that covers a multitude of religions and beliefs often you find up having to people debating over totally different things. It's about as confusing as trying to debate Christianity but using the word monotheism and the otherside thinks you're talking about Islam. Or something.

But I'll admit. Maybe I'm being too hard on Picman. Which dosen't matter much I guess since he seems to be gone already. *shrug*

Edited by SOAP, 22 August 2007 - 06:56 PM.