141 replies to this topic

[Masamune]

Dear LJ,

Those Chozos didn't think I was special just because I'm American. How come the European me gets sooooooo much more attention!? It's not fair!

[2oi24pfdsfs

I cant even stand it. I'm going to go play some WoW w/ my REAL friends.

P.S. those chozos are so unfriended

-End Transmission
--Samus Aran

[Hero of Legend]

No, it's incredibly cheesy and ruins the dramatic effect of the ending especially.

Well, duh. Wasn't that what I said? I never claimed the PAL version was better, that comparison seems to be mostly an American thing.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 22 August 2007 - 12:00 PM.

[Fyxe]

The PAL version IS better though, overall, whether you like the voiceover or not. They fixed the game, gave Ridley a whole new move, made enemies decently difficult and made Metroid Prime into a proper challenge. Also, they changed the Space Pirate logs involving Metroid Prime that didn't make any sense. If the Space Pirates couldn't get into the Impact Crater, how the hell did they find Metroid Prime? And how did it get back there? Madness.

And the voiceover isn't that bad, hell, I didn't even remember it existed, so obviously it's not that intrusive. It's brief and reminds me of the ol' voice before Super Metroid started. Hence I like it.

Also, the American version lacks the voice for the Power Suit, and that voice is neato. A gentle 'Recorded to Logbook' is far more satifying than 'BLOOP'.

Edited by Fyxe, 22 August 2007 - 07:27 PM.

[Hero of Legend]

Personally, I agree with you, but ask the Metroid community and you will get something like "But it lack teh 1337 Sequence breaks!" Incidentally, half of them hate everything about Corruption and some refuse to even acknowledge it as a Metroid game, much like Fusion before it. It's also cool to hate Retro because they ruin everything, not to mention making Echoes, the worst game ever.

Woo! Fandom at it's best!

[darthsauron]

The PAL version IS better though, overall, whether you like the voiceover or not. They fixed the game, gave Ridley a whole new move, made enemies decently difficult and made Metroid Prime into a proper challenge.

say wha?

Also, they changed the Space Pirate logs involving Metroid Prime that didn't make any sense. If the Space Pirates couldn't get into the Impact Crater, how the hell did they find Metroid Prime? And how did it get back there? Madness.

huh?

Also, the American version lacks the voice for the Power Suit, and that voice is neato. A gentle 'Recorded to Logbook' is far more satifying than 'BLOOP'.

This is beyond unfair. I didn't know about any of this stuff. Ridley's cool and all, but he's way too easy. Hopefully we'll get a Wii release of the original two Prime games with all the tweaks and the new control scheme. Crosses fingers.

[Fyxe]

Echoes is a better game than Prime.

It is. Prime just came first hence all the lovings. Much like Majora's Mask compared to OoT.

Also, some of the Metroid fanbase are morons, clearly only loving one game in the series, and we all know which one. Yes, Super Metroid is awesome, yes, it's brilliant, but nobody really cares that much about 'sequence breaks'. Or at least they shouldn't.

Sequence breaks don't work in any of the Prime games anyway. It doesn't suit the style of the game.

And Fusion is too good for those raving fools.

dauthsauron, Ridley was definitely made harder, although he's slightly easier to stun, apparently. The Wavebuster doesn't work on him though, which was apparently super cheap in the American game. I think some of the changes to Prime were added to the Player's Choice version in America, but I'm not sure how much they added.

Edited by Fyxe, 22 August 2007 - 07:55 PM.

[Hero of Legend]

Well, I will say I prefer the original Prime to Echoes. Though it was not perfect, that game gave me a feeling of isolation and beauty unlike other, which I doubt Corruption will be able to top. That said, I fully expect it to surpass Prime in every other aspect, and be the better game overall. I for one love me some epic shit.

As for Echoes, I just didn't like the new designs and was miffed about some of the changes to the engine. I think of it as the 'lost sequel' of the Prime trilogy, as the second game is almost always looked down upon for not changing enough and in the right places. It's still an exelent game, of course, but I wouldn't call it a Majora's Mask. Although now that I think about it, they are a bit similar in design (i.e. a linear overworld with four areas branching of the main hub).

Edited by Hero of Legend, 22 August 2007 - 08:12 PM.

[Fyxe]

I didn't notice any significant changes to the engine, other than the obviously new gameplay elements like the Light and Dark Beams, and what do you mean about the 'new designs'? Come on, the Dark Suit is the coolest suit ever.

Some people didn't like the whole Light Beacon thing, but I thought it added a nice tactical element and the atmosphere of Dark Aether is unlike anything in any other game I'd played at that point. Beautifully dark.

Aside from that, what I like about Echoes is that the whole game is a lot more detailed, the plot seems more thought out and everything connects in a nicer fashion to the original Prime, which has some issues in that area. The cutscenes were obviously better, the bosses were far more 'epic' (even if there's no Ridley) and best of all, the game was hard. Much like how MM made OoT look like cake.

Plus, the second fight with Dark Samus is the best thing ever. Utter glee. I loved those battles so much.

[LionHarted]

I wouldn't say Prime 1 had a "linear" overworld, since most of the major sequence breaks were related to navigating the overworld (early Space Jump, early access to Crashed Frigate).

As for the rabid fanbase, most of them hate any Metroid game that isn't Super Metroid. That's just how it is.

[Hero of Legend]

Fyxe: I meant general design. Prime was a paradise in decay, with beautiful rainforests, glimmering snow fields and forgotten ruins. Echoes had very little that wasn't either organic (in the creepy alien kind of way, and yeah, I know that's more Metroidy, but I didn't like it) or uninteresting technology. Sanctuary Fortress was the only place that truly impressed me. Similarly, most enemies were simply new skins on old models, and I usually preferred the originals. But yeah, I also didn't like the suits - any of them.

As for the engine, many things were tweaked. Jumping and underwater movement for example. Or, at least I think so.

The Dark World I thought was a bit boring. Usually it just had less enemies and more poison water than the light version. I suppose TP wasn't any better though...

But yeah, Dark Samus was awesome (except the final battle, but Emperor Ing made up for that) and I'm not denying that Echoes did a lot to further the series. It just didn't make me want to play it as much as Prime, which I beat both 100% and low%.

Edited by Hero of Legend, 22 August 2007 - 08:51 PM.

[LionHarted]

I liked the looks of the new suits; didn't like that they did practically nothing, and were more of a "Dark Aether health upgrade" than anything else. I hated the new Varia Suit design, and the design/gameplay for Light and Dark Beams. The ammo system was fine; they just behaved too much like the Plasma and Ice Beams from Prime 1, respectively.

[D~N]

Truth be told, they were the plasma and ice beams from Prime 1; Retro Studios simply colored 'em differently. Probably took no longer than fifteen minutes for the dude that programed it.
That said, I liked Prime 1 better because of it's closeness to the rest of the series. It wasn't "too different", it had all the same beams as we've come to know, and it felt more like a Metroid game at heart. That isn't to say Prime 2 didn't have it shining moments. The Screw Attack was translated perfectly into 3D, and the suits were incredibly cool looking. Perhaps it was the better game -- but it wasn't the better Metroid game.

[LionHarted]

Truth be told, they were the plasma and ice beams from Prime 1; Retro Studios simply colored 'em differently.

Not quite. Light Beam behaved differently when charged, and the Dark Beam, I believe, had a slightly faster rate of fire. Not to mention that each was more effective against different enemy types.

Edited by LionHarted, 23 August 2007 - 11:09 AM.

[Fizzbit]

All I know is that

Space Pirate + Charged Dark Beam Shot + Missile = easy kill.

same with Metroids after you weakened them a bit.

[Fyxe]

Right, there's some bad mouthing about Echoes being thrown about here that I need to counteract.

Fyxe: I meant general design. Prime was a paradise in decay, with beautiful rainforests, glimmering snow fields and forgotten ruins.

Okay, that's cool, Prime definitely has some good locales, yes. My issue is that they are a little... Generic. Ruins, jungle, fire, ice. Many of the locales are heavily based on ones in Super Metroid, aside from Phendrana Drifts. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a little lacking in originality. I like that Echoes is a bit more unique.

Echoes had very little that wasn't either organic (in the creepy alien kind of way, and yeah, I know that's more Metroidy, but I didn't like it) or uninteresting technology. Sanctuary Fortress was the only place that truly impressed me.

Sanctuary Fortress is a standout location, definitely, and Agon Wastes is a little dull but that's kind of the point. It's a wasteland. Torvus Bog was cool though, I personally loved the underwater temple with the Maridia music. Excellent stuff. Better than the Crashed Frigate, IMO.

Similarly, most enemies were simply new skins on old models, and I usually preferred the originals. But yeah, I also didn't like the suits - any of them.

Be fair, there were not that many enemies that used old models, although obviously there's a few, like the Ingsmasher. However, considering they could have been even lazier and not changed the enemies at all (Elite Pirates wouldn't have been out of place, Pirates were moving into the Sanctuary), which some other designers would do, I'm fairly pleased that they did some new stuff. Besides, while some enemies were obviously based on old enemies, fighting them is entirely different. Grenchlers are obviously Baby Sheegoths, but god DAMN they'd about 50 times as hard, plus they can swim. Besides, there's plenty of new enemies, like the Quad mechanoids in the Santuary Fortress, various little insects and plantlife, the various Ing and all the bosses, of which there were a lot.

As for the suits... Come on. The Dark Suit is awesome. And the Varia Suit is the same as always. Besides, it's not like Prime had interesting suits... Aside from the standard Power Suit, they were just colour variations on the Varia.

As for the engine, many things were tweaked. Jumping and underwater movement for example. Or, at least I think so.

I'm really not sure about this. I have never noticed any changes, aside from obvious things like the Gravity Boost (which is much fun) and the Screw Attack (even more fun).

The Dark World I thought was a bit boring. Usually it just had less enemies and more poison water than the light version. I suppose TP wasn't any better though...

I'm not sure, there are some areas that are barren before you get the Dark Suit, but I think the enemy count between the worlds is pretty similar. It's mostly fairly empty when it comes to architecture and stuff but that's kind of the idea. What makes it atomspheric is all the lighting and effects going on.

I liked the looks of the new suits; didn't like that they did practically nothing, and were more of a "Dark Aether health upgrade" than anything else. I hated the new Varia Suit design,

Am I blind or something? The Varia Suit is virtually identical. Dunno what you're going on about. o.o And the suits in Prime were pretty much the same anyway. Increase in defense and the ability to survive some environment damage. Well, aside from the Gravity Suit, but that was what the Gravity Boost was for.

and the design/gameplay for Light and Dark Beams. The ammo system was fine; they just behaved too much like the Plasma and Ice Beams from Prime 1, respectively.

Truth be told, they were the plasma and ice beams from Prime 1; Retro Studios simply colored 'em differently. Probably took no longer than fifteen minutes for the dude that programed it.

Okay, while it's fairly obvious that they modified the previous beams to make the Light and Dark Beams, they are NOT the same beams. They are incredibly well balanced, unlike the beams in Prime. Take the Plasma Beam and the Light Beam. Firstly, the Light Beam is not nearly as powerful. Secondly, it doesn't set enemies on fire unless you use the Charge Beam. Thirdly, it doesn't have the stupidly powerful Charge Beam that kills virtually everything in one hit and renders Super Missiles useless. Then there's the Dark Beam, which unlike the Ice Beam, only freezes enemies if you use the Charge Shot. Plus it's slower. Using the cheap trick where you freeze and use a Missile is therefore much more difficult in Echoes, and doesn't always work.

The problem with the beams in Prime was that as long as you have the right beam, the enemies die practically instantly, or have virtually no means of responding. Security Drone or Space Pirate? Charged Wave Beam until they die, giving them no chance to counter. Metroids? Ice Beam and one measly Missile, rendering Hunter Metroids utterly useless. Anything else? Insta-kill Plasma Beam overkill.

This even went to the stage where the enemies were nicely colour coded for Samus in the Phazon Mines. How nice of the Pirates.

Edited by Fyxe, 23 August 2007 - 11:33 AM.

[LionHarted]

Am I blind or something? The Varia Suit is virtually identical.

The metallic feel of Prime 1's suit is totally gone. It looks more plasticky.
The designs on the legs of the Varia Suit look like shit compared to Prime 1's suit.

Prime 1 suit
Echoes suit

I agree, though, that the Gravity Booster kicks so much ass compared to the corresponding suit.

Edited by LionHarted, 23 August 2007 - 11:39 AM.

[Fyxe]

Well, sure, if you pick a shit screenshot with no lighting, sure, yes, of course, you're totally right.

*Bangs head on wall*

Surrounded by doofuses.

[LionHarted]

I never saw a moment in the game where it looked anything like the suit in Prime 1 in that respect, though.

[D~N]

Huh? If anything, Prime 2's suit is better looking. It just makes sense that way o.o
Prime 1 ---> Prime 2.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would actually make a game look worse. Fact of the matter is, Echoes is a much better looking game; of course, it's darker and less bloom-lighting-filled, but the engine of the game is better.

This is weird; I'm defending a game, then trashing it.

Edited by D~N, 23 August 2007 - 11:51 AM.

[Fyxe]

I never saw a moment in the game where it looked anything like the suit in Prime 1 in that respect, though.

I've seen plenty, such as when she jumps into the hive, or when she meets Dark Samus for the first time, and especially when she travels through a portal.

D~N, I think Echoes actually has more bloom lighting, despite the darkness. I'm not certain on that though. Prime definitely looks a lot more 'flat' when you play it after playing Echoes for awhile, anyway.

The difference between both games is very minimal though.

[SL the Pyro]

Some people didn't like the whole Light Beacon thing, but I thought it added a nice tactical element and the atmosphere of Dark Aether is unlike anything in any other game I'd played at that point. Beautifully dark.

Not that I don't agree, but that part did make some boss battles really stupidly hard. I'm talking about Boost Guardian. Of course you can find Ultra Energy pickups in the pillar things if the Boost Guardian bowls them over, you have to fend off a constantly-respawning Inglet for each one you destroy (that's four Inglets plus the mini-boss). That's irritating in Morph Ball mode.

[LionHarted]

It should be noted that you don't HAVE to be in Morph Ball against Boost Guardian, except to get it out of its ball form.

[SL the Pyro]

^ Which is when the Inglets are a royal pain in the backside, and you tend to take more damage from the Boost Guardian's slime form since you might not know that you're standing on it until it's too late (and I remind you that in Hard Mode, direct contact with Boost Guardian HURTS). If you have enough Energy Tanks you could beat Boost Guardian without making him slam into a pillar, but on Hard Mode you NEED that health to win. That's the only time I hate the whole Safe Zone thing, though.

[Fizzbit]

Yeah I haaaated the Boost Guardian on Hard Mode. Took me forever.

I still haven't beaten the final form of the Emperor Ing on hard, either.

[CID Farwin]

Boost guardian on hard: at least 5 tries.(that's when I stopped counting)
Emperor Ing on hard:one try.(wait-maybe two)
Dark Samus 3/4 on hard: two tries.

That's just wrong.

Edited by CID Farwin, 23 August 2007 - 02:24 PM.

[SL the Pyro]

Emperor Ing was a cinch for me, even on Hard (well, I DID have all of the power-ups).

You guys want to know something that was pointlessly long? MP1: Metroid Prime's second form on Hard. It took around 10-12 attacks with the Phazon Beam to "kill" it (might even be more)!

[Fizzbit]

Really?? The final battle for Prime's second form for me was rather easy on hard mode.

I also have all the power ups on hard mode in Echoes. I just can't kill the fucker.

[Fyxe]

I just beat the Boost Ball Guardian on Hard right this second actually, so it's amusing that you guys bring it up. Took me three goes, but I got it. Boost Ball Guardian is the toughest boss in the entire game, IMO. However, as long as you don't hit him when he's in his amorphous form, and get a bit lucky with the health, it's not an issue. Oh, and drob bombs ALL the time. But never, ever let him touch you when he's a blob.

It was a bit overly harsh that they gave you no safe zone during that fight though.

I'm on my way for 100% scans. Wish me luck. XP

Emperor Ing? He's gonna be a walkover compared to that guy. I hope... Fizzbit, just make sure you're never, EVER directly infront of him. Then you should be able to dodge most of his nasty attacks.

Just to note, Metroid Prime's second form is a LOT harder in the PAL version, from what I can tell. Apparently he has almost twice the health, and moves almost twice as fast. Still beat him first go on Hard though. XP

Edited by Fyxe, 23 August 2007 - 02:37 PM.

[CID Farwin]

Emperor Ing=total walkover.

Just remember to refill your life at the chrysalis form.(That should help, Fizzbit.)

Edited by CID Farwin, 23 August 2007 - 02:41 PM.

[SL the Pyro]

Really?? The final battle for Prime's second form for me was rather easy on hard mode.

I never said it was hard, just needlessly time-consuming.

I'm on my way for 100% scans. Wish me luck. XP

That's not hard at all; for some reason, all of the scans are easier to find than in the prequel. THE PREQUEL IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO GET ALL THE SCANS IN. I know what the Hive Mecha is, but I don't know when to scan it for the Log Entry. Help?

Just remember to refill your life at the chrysalis form.(That should help, Fizzbit.)

And if you see Inglets trying to knock you off of the chrysalis, bomb the hell out of them; more often than not, they'll drop a Super Energy (at least I think that's what they're called, I'm referring to the Blue ones that restore 50 energy).