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Why there might not be an Evil Spirit within the Magic Trident after all...


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#61 Arturo

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 07:20 AM

Impa's power cannot be that of darkness because darkness seeks to destroy Hyrule, not to protect it. Perhaps TP will explain the differentiation of the terms or perhaps it will ignore it to show that the elements have no genuine relevance in the timeline. It is possible that Darkness uses other metaphorical forms of energy such as Shadow and Twilight as vessels for its power.


The same word is used for shadow and darkness in Japanese (Yami), so there can be no differentiation. She is the Sage of the Dark Temple, the one where it is written Hyrule's hystory of blood. Not really positive, isn't it?

#62 Raien

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 07:42 AM

The same word is used for shadow and darkness in Japanese (Yami), so there can be no differentiation. She is the Sage of the Dark Temple, the one where it is written Hyrule's hystory of blood. Not really positive, isn't it?


This is how I see it.

1) From a variety of quotes that I provided on the last page, it is very much apparent that the Gods and Darkness are oppositional forces. The Gods seek to defeat the Darkness and Darkness seeks to destroy Hyrule as the Gods created it.

2) In every other Zelda game, the elements of the Temples have no importance. In fact, the elements play no real importance toward the Sage powers in OoT either. They have only served to exist so far as dungeon themes.

I cannot accept that Impa's elemental power is that of Darkness itself because it contradicts every other piece of information in the Zelda series that darkness is in opposition to the Gods. If there is an explanation at all, it will hopefully be explained in TP.

Edited by jhurvid, 19 November 2006 - 07:48 AM.


#63 SOAP

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 09:20 AM

I don't think the Gods oppose Darkness at all. Granted they did not create it but everything they did create is created from that Chaos. Chaos is simply the raw material of which all matter is made from. It is not "evil" or sentient by any means. It's only goal is to return to it's original state. And the Gods simply go in and start the process again. It's an endless cycle an natural process in Nature. Things die. They break down to their most basic elements. These elements get absorbed through the roots of plants. These plants get eaten by animals. These animals get eaten by other animals. These animals get eaten by Hylians. Hylians die and return to the soil from which they came. Everything dies. Everything gets destroyed. Everything goes back to be chaotic. But life always spring back. The world gets rebuilt.

To put it simply Chaos isn't against the Gods' will, it's simply part of the greater equation. You can't have too much of Light or Darkness. If no one ever died, the world would get crowded which is just as bad if everyone died. Too much order, there'd be no freedom. Too much light, and the planet would burn up. Darkness is a natural part of life and has it's place. The Sheikah understand this and respect it's power. Ganondorf does not and seeks to make Darkness greater than Light. This is what seperates him from the Sheikah. If the Gods oppose anything, if at all, it's the imbalnce between Dark and Light, not Darkness itself. So Light can be just as evil as Dark if those who weild it seek to make it greater than Dark.

Edited by SOAP, 19 November 2006 - 09:20 AM.


#64 Arturo

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 09:24 AM

This is how I see it.

1) From a variety of quotes that I provided on the last page, it is very much apparent that the Gods and Darkness are oppositional forces. The Gods seek to defeat the Darkness and Darkness seeks to destroy Hyrule as the Gods created it.

2) In every other Zelda game, the elements of the Temples have no importance. In fact, the elements play no real importance toward the Sage powers in OoT either. They have only served to exist so far as dungeon themes.

I cannot accept that Impa's elemental power is that of Darkness itself because it contradicts every other piece of information in the Zelda series that darkness is in opposition to the Gods. If there is an explanation at all, it will hopefully be explained in TP.


And Sheikahs are Dark people. But they aren't evil. Darkness=/=Evil in Zelda

#65 Raien

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 10:07 AM

And Sheikahs are Dark people. But they aren't evil. Darkness=/=Evil in Zelda


The Sheikahs are said to be "the shadows of the Hylians", which is completely different from Evil/Darkness.

I fail to understand why there should be any differentation between Evil and Darkness when every representation of Evil has been related to Darkness in some form, just like every representation of Good has been related to Light. This doesn't mean that every character who has greedy ambitions, such as Ingo, has to possess Darkness but when you look at direct representations, the two are connected.

If Darkness is not connected to Evil, then why is it that Ganondorf became the King of Darkness in OoT when his heart was only evil, not of darkness (according to the view that he does not possess a demon soul)?

Edited by jhurvid, 19 November 2006 - 10:38 AM.


#66 SOAP

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 10:10 AM

Shadow=Dark

Darkness=/=Evil

Too much of anything=Evil

Edited by SOAP, 19 November 2006 - 10:10 AM.


#67 Arturo

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 11:28 AM

The Sheikahs are said to be "the shadows of the Hylians", which is completely different from Evil/Darkness.


Sheik calls them "shadow folk", that is, dark folk.

If Darkness is not connected to Evil, then why is it that Ganondorf became the King of Darkness in OoT when his heart was only evil, not of darkness (according to the view that he does not possess a demon soul)?


They are connected, but not the same. And in OoT, he is not the King of Darkness, but the King of Evil and the Evil Incarnation of Darkness.

This is really reminding me of Digimon

#68 Raien

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 12:08 PM

Sheik calls them "shadow folk", that is, dark folk.


They are, but "shadow" is referencing their identity as "the shadow of the Hylians". The context of what "shadow" means, even in the Japanese script (assuming this quote also appears there), changes completely from the usual context in this case.

They are connected, but not the same. And in OoT, he is not the King of Darkness, but the King of Evil and the Evil Incarnation of Darkness.


I thought you said that the Japanese use the same definition for "evil" and "darkness", so why are you differentiating them here?

Edited by jhurvid, 19 November 2006 - 12:08 PM.


#69 Arturo

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 12:10 PM

I can't tell you that. I suspect that the same word is used, but don't know certainly. What I know is that Shadow=Darkness in Japanese Zelda. That's why Dark Link is sometimes called Shadow Link. Also, the Palace of Darkness from ALttP has the same name as the Shadow Temple.

#70 Raien

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 12:17 PM

I can't tell you that. I suspect that the same word is used, but don't know certainly. What I know is that Shadow=Darkness in Japanese Zelda. That's why Dark Link is sometimes called Shadow Link. Also, the Palace of Darkness from ALttP has the same name as the Shadow Temple.


Oh wait, it wasn't you who told me that the same definition for King of Evil and King of Darkness was used in the Japanese script, it was in the LoZ Manual translation.

Anyway, the term "Shadow" on its own represents Darkness and to describe a form of power or energy. But the term "Shadow" when representing "someone's shadow" like "the shadow of the Hylians" creates an altogether different context and cannot be used to show the same meaning.

Edited by jhurvid, 19 November 2006 - 12:17 PM.


#71 Arturo

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 12:18 PM

According to your logic "Hylians shadows" would mean dark versions of Hylians.

#72 Raien

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 12:23 PM

According to your logic "Hylians shadows" would mean dark versions of Hylians.


Shadow has three meanings within OoT.

1) Literal shadows.
2) Another metaphor for Darkness.
3) To support or serve the Hylians.

To be concealed in the background of someone else is referred to as "to be in that person's shadow". The Sheikah support and serve the Hylian Royal Family but remain mysterious, so they are referred to as "the shadows of the Hylians". This definition is loosely connected to the Shadow Temple through the definition and that it represents Hyrule's mysterious darker side (i.e. Hyrule's history of blood and hatred). The Sheikah live in Kakariko Village where the Shadow Temple is housed so they are connected in that respect as well. The point I'm getting across is that there are many reasons why the Sheikah are metaphorically connected to Shadow, none of them necessarily related to the power of darkness.

Edited by jhurvid, 19 November 2006 - 12:30 PM.


#73 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 02:56 PM

To support and serve the Hylians? By that definition, shouldn't literal shadow be serving and supporting creation? Night and Day, Order and Chaos, Ying and Yang?

Yea, I thought so. Shut the hell up, you're an idiot.

#74 Alardonin

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 04:00 PM

I used quotes to support my darkness/chaos explanation and inferred from OoT and FSA that Ganondorf possesses the soul of a demon. It is altogether possible that Ganondorf is simply an evil man who gains power but I think that there is such an extreme emphasis on Ganondorf as pure evil that he must possess some form of omnipotence not unlike Damien from The Omen. Then there is the "Evil Spirit" quote in FSA which, if it speaks to the reader and not of the Trident itself, proves that Ganondorf's soul is tainted.


I know you did! I could put dozens of theories and actual proof and support for them as well, but the actual placement of those proofs and interpretation of them, would be entirely in the assumption department. Your theory while interesting, does not hold more truth then any other and i think you know that, since you gave clues of that above.


If the Gods oppose anything, if at all, it's the imbalnce between Dark and Light, not Darkness itself. So Light can be just as evil as Dark if those who weild it seek to make it greater than Dark.


All of it, not just this, was very well said SOAP. In fact what if the goal in TP was not to destroy the darkness, but to bring it back to its former balance.

#75 Raien

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 05:19 PM

To support and serve the Hylians? By that definition, shouldn't literal shadow be serving and supporting creation? Night and Day, Order and Chaos, Ying and Yang?


I was talking about the context in which the term "Shadow" was used. The term "the shadows of the Hylians" represents that they serve the Hylians in the background, mysteriously. Their relationship with the Hylians are as shadows are to humans.

Anyway, this is beside the point. If two opposing forces were created simply to provide balance, then that is an acceptable theory in other situations. However, within Zelda, the darkness seeks to destroy the balance of Hyrule, not to exist as a part of it. The darkness was not made by the Gods; the Gods directly intervene to destroy the darkness where possible. Whenever Hyrule is at peace, Light dominates over darkness; there is no objective balance. Therefore, the ying-yang explanation cannot be used here.

All of it, not just this, was very well said SOAP. In fact what if the goal in TP was not to destroy the darkness, but to bring it back to its former balance.


Spoiler : click to show/hide
Twilight and Darkness have been proved to be two separate forces in TSA's spoilers. This adds a third dimension to the plotline because you are not just trying to save the Light World from Twilight but the Twilight Realm from Darkness as well. This is where Midna comes in.

Edited by jhurvid, 19 November 2006 - 05:22 PM.


#76 Alardonin

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 05:32 PM

Spoiler : click to show/hide
Twilight and Darkness have been proved to be two separate forces in TSA's spoilers. This adds a third dimension to the plotline because you are not just trying to save the Light World from Twilight but the Twilight Realm from Darkness as well. This is where Midna comes in.


Yeah i didn't read any of the spoilers, but that is a very interesting twist actually. Ah, TP can't come soon enough.

#77 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 08:42 PM

It's not the Darkness who wants to destroy Hyrule. It's the people (ab)using it. A person weilding a force is not representative of the force. If I am using a gun to destroy, it does not mean the gun itself has a wish to destroy.

Darkness isn't good or evil, but the people who use it's power do.

I was talking about the context in which the term "Shadow" was used. The term "the shadows of the Hylians" represents that they serve the Hylians in the background, mysteriously. Their relationship with the Hylians are as shadows are to humans.

So why can't Shadows and Darkness in the Cosmic context be to the forces of light as shadows are to humans? If you light a candle, a shadow is born. The same applies in Zelda. You have day, so there must be night.

The darkness was not made by the Gods; the Gods directly intervene to destroy the darkness where possible.


No they don't. The Gods made everything. To say otherwise is to contradict the creation myth. (And before you say that Chaos was there, remember that Chaos, Darkness, and Evil are all three entirely different nouns that are not synonymous. In greek mythology, Chaos was the force used to create the universe.)

Whenever Hyrule is at peace, Light dominates over darkness; there is no objective balance. Therefore, the ying-yang explanation cannot be used here.


You say that Darkness is the force that constantly attacks Hyrule. Need I remind you that Vaati draws his power from a little something called a "Light Force"? Yea. Thought so.

Light can be abused just like Darkness.

The power of the Goddesses (The Triforce) has caused more destruction to Hyrule than any force of Darkness.



You're done. Your statements about Hyrule's Duality are baseless and are easily discarded with Occam's Razor, and don't even work in the context of the games.

#78 LionHarted

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 10:23 PM

jhurvid is 100% correct, at least about the topic premise:

Spoiler : click to show/hide
"He was known as a demon thief, an evil-magic wielder renowned for his ruthlessness…"

Edited by LionHarted, 19 November 2006 - 10:23 PM.


#79 Mgoblue201

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 05:02 AM

You say that Darkness is the force that constantly attacks Hyrule. Need I remind you that Vaati draws his power from a little something called a "Light Force"? Yea. Thought so.

Light can be abused just like Darkness.

The power of the Goddesses (The Triforce) has caused more destruction to Hyrule than any force of Darkness.
You're done. Your statements about Hyrule's Duality are baseless and are easily discarded with Occam's Razor, and don't even work in the context of the games.

As far as I understand it the Triforce is inanimate and is not in the position to give a verdict of whether something is good or evil. It simply grants the power of the wielder. If evil power touches it than it grants the power of darkness. If good power touches it than it grants the wielder's good wishes. LTTP seems to say that the goddesses created the Triforce, but everything I have heard about it implies that the Triforce itself has no elemental or dark or light properties.

Anyway, I hear the original quote bandied about a lot, but I think the people that say Ganon is simply a spirit that inhabits the body of men is erroneous. OOT makes it clear that Ganondorf is simply transformed into Ganon. In fact the names are sort of misnomers. Some people seem to think that Ganon is the monster and Ganondorf is the human which isn't true. Ganon and Ganondorf are sort of interchangeable in WW, and in OOT Ganon is only used after he gets the Triforce. LTTP says Ganon was his common name. So the names don't necessarily mean anything.

Now LTTP does go on to say that Ganon was born upon touching the Triforce, although that refers to the King of Evil Ganon. In other words it suggests he drew innumerable in power upon that moment. LTTP makes no mention that he ever changed in appearence or anything else happened to him. This goes along with OOT perfectly when he touches the Triforce and becomes the King of Evil. There is nothing to suggest here anything more that he was incredibly hungry for power, touched the Triforce, and became even more powerful...or evil depending on what you believe.

FSA at least attempts to mirror this somewhat with the trident replacing the Triforce of Power. Thirst for conquest, seeks something to make his dreams come true, finds it, turns even more powerful. Now I've only heard this one quote without a context since I haven't played FSA. Your context makes this very interesting and open to interpretation.

We...grant you...power to...ruin...the world. The power of...darkness. Evil...spirit of magic trident. You are...the... King of Darkness.

There isn't a particular name for what this does, but I have seen it before. The evil spirit part addresses the reader by what he's known for. The King of Darkness adresses his title. Think of like saying "Great warrior of Hyrule. You are the Hero of Time." Or a real world example "Leader of the free world. You are the President of the United States." It's sort of sizing the person up as he is and addressing him by his title. The two have to be taken together as addressing the same person, so it's clearly talking about the person reading the text. Therefore the evil spirit of the trident is the King of Darkness. Ganon and Ganondorf are one.

Of course most people see spirit and interpret it as a soul or specter or ethereal being. However, spirit can also mean mood or quality. The rest of the passage essentially paints Ganondorf as evil, so that makes sense. Now while the entirety of this bit is in present tense, it makes an important transition here. Are you this, are you that. Then it says we grant you this. Now you're this. Now you're the King of Darkness. In order for an evil spirit to inhabit the trident it has to completely interrupt the flow, and it doesn't even give context. It completely negates everything else in the passage. It also ignores everything else we know about Ganon. Therefore I don't think it's true.

I don't want to get into this lengthy argument over the very nature of Ganondorf though. That doesn't necessarily impact anything I think and frankly I don't think it has an impact on any important story elements. For now I simply think he was a man that sought power, found it, and consumated his desire (partly at least) by gaining more power. Anything else is superfluous to me.

Another thing I want to make note of the nature of Ganon...if FSA came before LTTP (which I still have my doubts on), than what is the nature of his death? This is the only game he's reincarnated in. In every other game he comes back by being revived (or says he will be revived by meeting certain conditions). He seems to do this in a myriad of ways. Sacrifices. Blood on ashes. Without Triforce. So what happened before FSA? Was he completely destroyed? Was he reborn as a new being? Was it simply a new process akin to revival except his body regenerated and developed? These are vital questions that need answers if we are to fill in the entire timeline.

#80 Raien

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:19 AM

It's not the Darkness who wants to destroy Hyrule. It's the people (ab)using it. A person weilding a force is not representative of the force. If I am using a gun to destroy, it does not mean the gun itself has a wish to destroy.


The Darkness, by its very nature, corrupts and destroys Hyrule. Look at FSA, the emphasis on "Darkness" transforming Hyrule is total and throughout the entire game. Ganon's own form was that of a ball of darkness until this materialised as the Pig. Zelda's Light was the power that sealed Darkness/Ganon away.

Darkness isn't good or evil, but the people who use it's power do.

Proof? When has Darkness ever been associated with good?

So why can't Shadows and Darkness in the Cosmic context be to the forces of light as shadows are to humans? If you light a candle, a shadow is born. The same applies in Zelda. You have day, so there must be night.


They are opposites but this doesn't mean they serve simply to keep the balance. Does this very argument serve a ying-yang purpose, for example?

No they don't. The Gods made everything. To say otherwise is to contradict the creation myth. (And before you say that Chaos was there, remember that Chaos, Darkness, and Evil are all three entirely different nouns that are not synonymous. In greek mythology, Chaos was the force used to create the universe.)

There is lots of evidence that the Gods do directly intervene against Darkness. The Gods told the Hylians to make the Master Sword (SW), they gave prophecies of what to do when evil arises (OoT, TWW), they kept the KoRL alive so he could be set to find the Hero of Winds. And for the final blow, one of TP's backstories features the goddesses directly driving out evil from the Sacred Realm.

And this doesn't contradict the creation myth. In the beginning, Hyrule was Chaos. Out of that chaos, the Gods created order and life. It's all there.

You say that Darkness is the force that constantly attacks Hyrule. Need I remind you that Vaati draws his power from a little something called a "Light Force"? Yea. Thought so.

Light can be abused just like Darkness.


That presumes the Light Force is made from the actual power of Light. If you look at the context surrounding the Light force, it never repels evil in the respect that both the Master Sword and the Forest of Light did. Likewise, the Minish who made it only refer to it as "limitless magical power", not light in itself. It's function is actually closer to the Triforce, it gives power to the holder. Take into account that Zelda was using the power to repel and seal the monsters that were ravaging the land and it becomes apparent why it was called the Light Force in her possession.

The power of the Goddesses (The Triforce) has caused more destruction to Hyrule than any force of Darkness.

Actually, the primary purpose of the Triforce maintains the order in Hyrule, as stated in the SW. It's secondary ability to give power to the hearts of humans (or demons in human form, like Ganondorf) is what causes the destruction. In the hearts of someone with a balanced heart, like Link, the Triforce can be used to bring light to Hyrule and repel chaos from the land.

Also, the full Triforce's power has never actually been used by Ganon outside of the Sacred Realm, so Ganon with the Trident arguably did more damage to Hyrule.

You're done. Your statements about Hyrule's Duality are baseless and are easily discarded with Occam's Razor, and don't even work in the context of the games.


Lol, not only are your insults failing miserably, you failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support your argument. In fact, part of that went against the script itself. Occams Razor fails if you don't use it properly.

Edited by jhurvid, 20 November 2006 - 08:23 AM.


#81 LionHarted

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:23 AM

Proof? When has Darkness ever been associated with good?

The Shadow Temple [same Japanese words used for "Shadow Temple" that were used for "Temple of Darkness"], Twilight Princess. =/

Also, the full Triforce's power has never actually been used by Ganon outside of the Sacred Realm, so Ganon with the Trident arguably did more damage to Hyrule.

The power Ganondorf wields in OoT is just as potent as that which he wields with the Trident.

Edited by LionHarted, 20 November 2006 - 08:25 AM.


#82 Raien

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:30 AM

The Shadow Temple [same Japanese words used for "Shadow Temple" that were used for "Temple of Darkness"], Twilight Princess. =/


And this where I put the concepts that I discussed with you into practice.

The Sheikah are a tribe that serve the Hylian Royal Family in the general background ("the shadows of the Hylians"). The Shadow Temple bares "Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred", so in short, the Sheikah keep charge of Hyrule's darker history. The Shadow Temple stands as a testament to the evil that occurred.

Then if you look at the symbology, the Shadow is represented by an Evil Eye. Yet the Sheikah symbol is that of the Evil Eye with a single tear, to represent that the Shadow is hurting. In other words, the Sheikah fight and control the Shadow, they don't coexist. In general, the Shadow Temple acts as a symbolic prison where the evil that has built from Hyrule's dark past is kept and the Sheikah act as the prison guards who keep the evil from breaking loose.

Edited by jhurvid, 20 November 2006 - 08:31 AM.


#83 LionHarted

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:31 AM

And this where I put the concepts that I discussed with you into practice.

The Sheikah are a tribe that serve the Hylian Royal Family in the general background ("the shadows of the Hylians"). The Shadow Temple bares "Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred", so in short, the Sheikah keep charge of Hyrule's darker history. The Shadow Temple stands as a testament to the evil that occurred.

Then if you look at the symbology, the Shadow is represented by an Evil Eye. Yet the Sheikah symbol is that of the Evil Eye with a single tear, to represent that it is hurt. In other words, the Sheikah fight and control the Shadow, they don't coexist. In general, the Shadow Temple acts as a symbolic prison where the evil that has built from Hyrule's dark past and the Sheikah act as the prison guards who keep the evil from breaking loose.

Regardless, the Shadow Temple still involves the use of "darkness" for good. So do the Shadow Crystal and Faded Shadows in TP represent the same.

#84 Raien

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:34 AM

Regardless, the Shadow Temple still involves the use of "darkness" for good. So do the Shadow Crystal and Faded Shadows in TP represent the same.


Spoiler : click to show/hide
The Shadow in TP was not the same force as Darkness, as stated by Midna. I am not saying they are unrelated, but we shouldn't assume they are the same force until the concept is elaborated. Likewise, my argument is that the Shadow in the Temple is symbolic rather than literal, just like the Spirit and Light temples.

Edited by jhurvid, 20 November 2006 - 08:34 AM.


#85 LionHarted

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:35 AM

Spoiler : click to show/hide
The Shadow in TP was not the same force as Darkness, as stated by Midna. I am not saying they are unrelated, but we shouldn't assume they are the same force until the concept is elaborated. Likewise, my argument is that the Shadow in the Temple is symbolic rather than literal, just like the Spirit and Light temples.

Spoiler : click to show/hide
The Shadow Crystal is the 'embodiment' of Ganon's power of darkness.

If you can get on MSN, I can relate to you what else I've learned.

Edited by LionHarted, 20 November 2006 - 08:36 AM.


#86 Raien

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:37 AM

Spoiler : click to show/hide
The Shadow Crystal is the 'embodiment' of Ganon's power of darkness.

If you can get on MSN, I can relate to you what else I've learned.


Ah yes. Well, I'm still arguing that the Sage of Shadow controls the evil, not coexists with it.

EDIT: I've got a lot of work to get on with over the next few days so it might be better to discuss the spoilers with you when the essay is due (this Thursday).

Edited by jhurvid, 20 November 2006 - 08:38 AM.


#87 LionHarted

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:38 AM

Ah yes. Well, I'm still arguing that the Sage of Shadow controls the evil, not coexists with it.

We're not talking about "evil", though; we're talking about "darkness". ;)

#88 Raien

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 08:39 AM

We're not talking about "evil", though; we're talking about "darkness". ;)


Yet it is not coexisting with the Sage of Shadow, it is being controlled.

#89 MikePetersSucks

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 05:54 PM

As far as I understand it the Triforce is inanimate and is not in the position to give a verdict of whether something is good or evil. It simply grants the power of the wielder. If evil power touches it than it grants the power of darkness. If good power touches it than it grants the wielder's good wishes. LTTP seems to say that the goddesses created the Triforce, but everything I have heard about it implies that the Triforce itself has no elemental or dark or light properties.

You're right, and so are the Goddesses, since the non-aligned Triforce is THEIR essence. Why would Darkness be the corruptive diametric opposite of NEUTRAL?

The Darkness, by its very nature, corrupts and destroys Hyrule. Look at FSA, the emphasis on "Darkness" transforming Hyrule is total and throughout the entire game. Ganon's own form was that of a ball of darkness until this materialised as the Pig. Zelda's Light was the power that sealed Darkness/Ganon away.


Night does not corrupt. Darkness, by it's very nature, is the absence of light. Darkness only corrupted and destroyed because Ganon made it as such.

Proof? When has Darkness ever been associated with good?

Impa, the Sheikah, and Midna.

They are opposites but this doesn't mean they serve simply to keep the balance. Does this very argument serve a ying-yang purpose, for example?


Light can't exist without darkness and vice versa. It's a logical fact, not a philosophical one.

Then if you look at the symbology, the Shadow is represented by an Evil Eye. Yet the Sheikah symbol is that of the Evil Eye with a single tear, to represent that the Shadow is hurting. In other words, the Sheikah fight and control the Shadow, they don't coexist. In general, the Shadow Temple acts as a symbolic prison where the evil that has built from Hyrule's dark past is kept and the Sheikah act as the prison guards who keep the evil from breaking loose.

You pulled that entirely out of your ass. Thus if you can do it, I can do it too. The Sheikah symbol is the Evil Eye of Shadow with a tear, meaning that shadow is repenting and using it's resources for the good of Hyrule.

Yet it is not coexisting with the Sage of Shadow, it is being controlled.


Just like Ganon controls darkness and shadow. So if you're gonna use that arguement so that Shadow can't be represented in benevolence, HOW can you pull the double standard? Ganon is doing the exact same thing and forcibly controlling darkness and shadow and whatnot, so how does Ganon speak on Darkness's behalf? He doesn't.

#90 SOAP

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Posted 20 November 2006 - 07:45 PM

And this where I put the concepts that I discussed with you into practice.

The Sheikah are a tribe that serve the Hylian Royal Family in the general background ("the shadows of the Hylians"). The Shadow Temple bares "Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred", so in short, the Sheikah keep charge of Hyrule's darker history. The Shadow Temple stands as a testament to the evil that occurred.

Then if you look at the symbology, the Shadow is represented by an Evil Eye. Yet the Sheikah symbol is that of the Evil Eye with a single tear, to represent that the Shadow is hurting. In other words, the Sheikah fight and control the Shadow, they don't coexist. In general, the Shadow Temple acts as a symbolic prison where the evil that has built from Hyrule's dark past is kept and the Sheikah act as the prison guards who keep the evil from breaking loose.


Talk about making stuff up! It's never really stated what the meaning behind the Sheikah Eye is but it certianly isn't some evil Shadow that being hurt and controlled by the Sheikah. It's the Sheikah Eye for crying out loud. If anything the implication is that it the all seeing eye that sees the truth, which is why the Lens of Truth is shaped like it. Same with the Sheikah Mask when worn supposively allows you to hear people's thoughts and the the gossip stone which tell you isoteric secrets about certian people or things. Who knows why it's crying? Maybe because the Sheikah are a bunch of emos. Who knows? Perhaps it's because the Sheikah are keepers of a dark secret of Hyrule's bloody past that everyone else would rather forget. The tear represents their remorse for those that died.




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